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Revelation on Riku's Memories



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HeartSeams

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Then how do you explain that Riku and Vanitas have the same armor, stance, and weapon?
They don't? Their armor is different, and their keyblades are different. And it isn't only Riku who has that stance.

I really think a lot of Vanitas and Riku's similarities is more due to Nomura trying to fool the audience (similar to what he did with Xion).
 
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If Vanitas is connected to Riku like Ventus is to Sora then why would Vanitas look like Sora as opposed to Riku? Nomura even points this out in the Ultimania, that, had Riku been the one connected to them, Vanitas would have looked like him instead of Sora. But he doesn't. He looks like Sora, so wouldn't that imply that Riku -wasn't- connected to Vanitas?

Because this isn't the same thing. The action of one affects the other. If anything, you should be asking why Ventus doesn't look like Riku (assuming the theory is correct), and there's an easy answer to that. Ven has the real body. Vanitas, with what we can assume to be darkness for a body, is more malleable in appearance.

To clarify, Eraqus wouldn't look like Terra just because his heart merged with his, nor would Kairi look like Sora through their connection. Vanitas' situation is a different case. He left behind an empty void in Ven's heart, which Sora filled. Since both Sora and Vanitas are now the other half to Ven's heart, they became connected, resulting in Vanitas' altered appearance.
 
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Caxm

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This could explain why Vanitas looks like Sora. Sora's memories made Xion look like Kairi. What if Riku was the reason Vanitas looks like Sora. At the end of KH2 Riku says to Sora "I was jealous of you". If Riku had a dark connection to Vanitus, his darkness would give Vanitas Sora's face since Riku's darkness is being fueled by his jelousy of Sora.

Edit:
If Vanitas is connected to Riku like Ventus is to Sora then why would Vanitas look like Sora as opposed to Riku? Nomura even points this out in the Ultimania, that, had Riku been the one connected to them, Vanitas would have looked like him instead of Sora. But he doesn't. He looks like Sora, so wouldn't that imply that Riku -wasn't- connected to Vanitas?

I didn't even see this before writing. lol
 

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Ok, then would you collaborate, or will you just say that you know and not tell us?
 
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I really think a lot of Vanitas and Riku's similarities is more due to Nomura trying to fool the audience (similar to what he did with Xion).

I don't actually think the stance is a connection since, as has been said, it's a pretty common stance and they're not exactly the same anyway. I mean, it's not like we've seen Sora wielding like Ven.

Now, to the idea that this is a red herring, I don't know.
Nomura said:
It was decided from the start that she would have a deep connection to Kairi, so she was based on Kairi with her hair changed a little.
[...]

Truthfully she's not unconnected to Kairi, but if if I had to explain, we were thinking of trying to mislead people with things like, "Is Xion Kairi's Nobody?"

Even Xion had a reason for looking the way she did.
 

HeartSeams

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Ok, then would you collaborate, or will you just say that you know and not tell us?
Vanitas looks like Sora because Sora was the one who connected his heart with Ventus' in order to heal it.
If anyone else had connected their hearts with Ventus, than Vanitas would have looked like them instead. Heck, if Sora's Mom had been the one to connect to Ventus' heart than we would finally have gotten to see her.

That's all there is to it really.


I don't actually think the stance is a connection since, as has been said, it's a pretty common stance and they're not exactly the same anyway. I mean, it's not like we've seen Sora wielding like Ven.

Now, to the idea that this is a red herring, I don't know.


Even Xion had a reason for looking the way she did.
Yeah, but you could easily say the reason they share the dark suit is just because they both relied on dark powers. It doesn't really have to be a connection any deeper than that.
 

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I 'unno. It just seems to be a similar motif kind of thing, like those "Soul Eater Eyes" that also appear on Vanitas and MX's Keyblades. They, and the dark suits, just seemed to be associated with darkness. There really hasn't been much to say otherwise.
 

loke13

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Again, it'd be a lot easier for me to say that, were it not for the fact that they're the only two in the series that get the suit.
True I have often wondered why none of the other Org. 13 members had the suit or heck even Braig in BBS he relied heavily on his dark powers.
 
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(I'm not going to continually bump this thread, but this is probably one of the last things I have to say on the topic, and I'd rather have it all in one spot).

So to the whole idea that Vanitas' heart is in Riku, I was thinking about Sora and Riku's struggle over the KK in KH1.
Don't you find that odd? That two separate beings, both with hearts powerful enough to wield a keyblade, had to fight over one keyblade.

Nomura has said on many occasions that there are just as many keyblades as there are potential wielders. In other words, a keyblade for every heart that's chosen. So WHY did the KK flip flop between Sora and Riku in KH1?
It has nothing to do with Riku's darkness, as the Keyblade can be used for either light or darkness, regardless of its exterior (be it from the realm of light or the realm of darkness).

The idea that both Sora and Riku were somehow chosen for the Kingdom Key suggests that they are bound by one chosen heart.
So stop and think. If Sora has Ventus' heart and Riku has Vanitas' heart, two halves to a whole heart, doesn't it make sense that they'd both be chosen wielders to the same key? It's a chain reaction:

Riku became a potential wielder after the rite performed by Terra. He was then chosen by the KK. Since Vanitas became a part of his heart, this allowed Vanitas' heart to become chosen for the KK as well. In turn, since Vanitas is the other half of Ventus' heart, so too did Ventus' heart become the KK's master (at least, after it could have connected with Vanitas' heart when Sora connects to Riku's heart prior to Destiny Islands being destroyed). Finally, with Ventus' heart in Sora's, Sora became elligible as its chosen wielder. Ventus and Vanitas' hearts bridge the gap between the wielding of the KK for Sora and RIku.

I'd like to also point out something interesting:
Compare this scene with this one.

It's very clear that Maleficent is doing the same to Riku as she did to Terra, unlocking the sleeping darkness. Note, too, what she says to Terra:
"I am able to control that which sleeps. I will awaken your true heart."

The same could be said for Riku. She awakens his "true heart," the sleeping darkness. Just like Ventus' heart sleeps in Sora, Vanitas' heart slept in Riku, until Maleficent awoke its power. And what was the result? After that, Riku could take the Kingdom Key from Sora and use his dark suit, one extremely similar to Vanitas'.

Now I'd like to examine a couple quotes on the matter:
In the Destiny Islands when Riku is swallowed by the darkness, there's a sparkle of light, and next comes the scene where Sora first gets the Keyblade, right? In my setting, the darkness wrapping itself around those two is the darkness of Riku's heart. At the moment when Sora enters that darkness, the light you can see is the light of the heart.

So Sora's heart connects with Riku's. And when their hearts connect, so too do Ventus and Vanitas' hearts, providing for the initial transfer of the keyblade

Q5: Why was Riku chosen as the original wielder of the keyblade?
A: Because he was chosen by Terra to inherit.

To use a keyblade you must have been chosen to inherit as well as been chosen by the keyblade itself. In BbS you could see that Terra performed the ceremony with Riku, and that is why Riku was able to take the keyblade that Sora used.

Riku taking the keyblade because of being chosen by Terra is only half the story. It explains why he could take it. He was its original master. But it doesn't explain why Sora could take it.
If it just were a matter of Sora's heart being stronger than Riku's, and vice versa, then that begs the question of why this is the only case where that's occurred. Surely MX could have stolen someone else's keyblade if that were the case, no?
It's one thing to use someone else's keyblade momentarily, which we know is possible. It's another when that person takes the keyblade permanently, which is what Sora inevitably ended up doing. Riku was its original wielder, and Sora robbed him.

As that answer says, you must also be chosen by the keyblade itself. So does a keyblade change masters willy nilly based on who has a stronger heart? No, we'd have keyblades going back and forth all the time. In this case, the KK changed to the heart of another wielder by a technicality, since both Sora and Riku hold parts of the same heart within themselves.
 

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Eh, the way I saw it was that KK was assigned to Riku while there was no Keyblade assigned to Sora at all, and that's why it flipflopped.
Rite of Succession is a requirement to be able to wield the Keyblade, and Sora never went through one. This is why Sora is so special. He gained the ability to use the Keyblade completely on his own, while characters like Kairi and Riku and Xehanort had to first be given the RoS.

That's how I always saw it. I kind of like it better too because it's more about the characters than yet another heart being shoved in places it doesn't belong -shrugs-
 

HeartSeams

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Does that even -need- explaining though? It's one of the things that makes Sora different, complicating it takes away its worth.

-shrugs-
 
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Well, Nomura said that Sora isn't "special" like a "Chosen One" kind of thing (aside from being chosen by the keyblade- like any keyblade wielder is, which by no means makes him special). So I don't see why he'd get to supersede the rite simply because he was special. In fact:

One of the concepts of the series is that the hero Sora isn’t some special being, but a normal boy. Sure, his heart is connected to Ventus and the others, but other than that, he’s a normal kid that could have come from anywhere, that hasn’t inherited anything from anyone. I want to make Sora a character that will give the player the feeling that “even if I’m not some special being, I have the possibility buried inside of connecting with many others to accomplish things”.

It kind of coincides with that statement. Sora's ability to wield is different because he has "the possibility buried inside of connecting with others" (ie Ven).
 

Antifa Lockhart

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I think this is too complicated as well, Nomura said earlier on in the earliest interviews that Sora was indeed the delivery boy, Riku's heart kept putting itself out of the Keyblade's reach. When Riku realized the truth he took his Key, but at that point the Keyblade had been with Sora for so long it had already taken a master as Sora's heart had grown stronger and stronger and upon his own revelation that this was the case the Keyblade chose to stay with Sora once and for all.

This idea of the Riku/Sora Ven/Vanitas struggle does have some merit as a similar situation happened between Xion and Roxas. Though, I think this might be a balance idea, as I can't see Nomura really connecting someone to someone else in such a way.
 
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I like that idea. And it would explain why he got the KK, which appears to be half of the XBlade. And also, remember that none of the big plot elements in KH are supposed to be coincidence. So there's a big chance of Grass's theory being correct.
 

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Grass always has good theories. I knew something was up as soon as I saw that xion dream scene in the japanese game. I guess now it will connect really well with 3D. With Riku and Sora going memory searching hopefully at least they'll be able to rescue someone in the game.
 

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didnt read the whole thread so idk if this came up, maybe Ansem put these memories of riku into sora with the data for the purpose of shedding light on how to fix everything. Riku has made many mistakes that could be used technically to save TAV. like the heart unlocking keyblade. So maybe Riku's mistakes were used in a positive way as the data in his heart.
 
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Well I feel like if he did intentionally put Riku's memories in Sora, there would have had to have been a solid reason behind it.
From what you're saying, it sounds more along the lines of, "Let's see what happens if I put Riku's memories in Sora."
 
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