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America: True Freedom, or Influenced Freedom?



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Vayne Mechanics

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Some questions to think about:

1) This war on terrorism, how long do you think it has being going on for?
2) The media, is everything on the TV what we see?
3) Does the media influence our choices?
4) Do we (we meaning you Americans) have a real choice in what you get to do? Or is it influenced which results you in picking the choices that society deems right?

Is America a true free country? Is communism bad? Are you afraid that terrorists could strike at any moment? Are you conservative in nature or liberal?

:D
 

chaywa

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True Freedom is the idealogy of a Utopian society...i.e. (direct translation from the original Greek οὐτόπος) "no place" or "place that does not exist"

Thus true freedom does not exist...

I smell myspace or homework assignment regarding the questions though...
 

RTP49

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Is America a true free country?
DEPENDS ON WHO'S TALKIN'

It's mainly influenced by what the social majority lets you do.
Is communism bad?
It's the most basic form of social economics I know of. The Russians just made it sound bad during the Cold War, and this generation is still plagued with those old, propagandic and uneducated claims that communism is bad and that makes me lol.

(For example, I wear my snazzy, fashionable, USSR sweater to school, and most of the children there point and say "UR A COMMIE DERKA DERKA DERKA")

Are you afraid that terrorists could strike at any moment?
lol no

Are you conservative in nature or liberal?
I JUS FLOW WITH THE MOMENT ISS AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRITE

I decided to not answer the numbered questions. :D
 

Daniel Faraday

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It's the most basic form of social economics I know of. The Russians just made it sound bad during the Cold War, and this generation is still plagued with those old, propagandic and uneducated claims that communism is bad and that makes me lol.

Aha, socialists. A funny group, lemme tell you. Communism works well on paper, extrodinarily well, actually, but once you consider the fact that the government will eventually whore away all the money of the nation, and the 'uniform social status' of the nation will become, uh, lower bottem class.

Does the media influence our choices?

lol rtp i broke ur record

No shit it does. That's pretty much the whole point of the media, to bombard us with all sorts of sides and opinions until we eventually choose one. Most people rely on what's on the news, too, to help form a decicive opinion. Ergo, we are children of the media.

The media, is everything on the TV what we see?

lol wut? Rephrase plz. Or do you mean is what we see on the tv everything...? If such, of course not, the media can't cover everything that's happening, they simply decide to film what they think will garner the most public appeal or intrest.

Do we (we meaning you Americans) have a real choice in what you get to do? Or is it influenced which results you in picking the choices that society deems right

I admit, what we do is limited by what the law deems correct and what's considered socially acceptable, but that leaves a pretty big range. We have a whole shit load of freedoms, don't even bother questioning that :\

This war on terrorism, how long do you think it has being going on for?

Probably since the troops were sent over. No duh.

Well, that was a nice way to waste five minutes. Immuna go eat lunch now.

~Dorian Gray
 

Eikre

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True Freedom, definitely, but to the point where others in the country use said freedom, to take away our own and add it to theirs. LOL MEDIA HORE.

We do get a lot of freedom, freedom to create cesspools, freedom to share porn, freedom to shit upon our country's values, freedom to commit suicide, freedom to be a complete asshole and get away with it.


Need I keep going?
 

RTP49

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Aha, socialists. A funny group, lemme tell you. Communism works well on paper, extrodinarily well, actually, but once you consider the fact that the government will eventually whore away all the money of the nation, and the 'uniform social status' of the nation will become, uh, lower bottem class.
Well, of course communism is terrible as a form of government, but among smaller groups (nomadic peoples, small farming colonies, etc) it can be quite effective. It just so happens that the Russians were doing it wrong.
 

Daniel Faraday

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Well, of course communism is terrible as a form of government, but among smaller groups (nomadic peoples, small farming colonies, etc) it can be quite effective. It just so happens that the Russians were doing it wrong.

Nomadic groups lacking an obvious leader. I'm still in favor of the 'governments fcuk up communism theory'.

btw, where did you recieve said fashionable USSR sweater? I'm a big fan of the motherland myself :O

~Dorian Gray
 

square-enix

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Granado Espada said:
This war on terrorism, how long do you think it has being going on for?
The 'war on terrorism' has been going on for 4-5 years. Where have you been?
Granado Espada said:
Is communism bad?
Are you trying to ask, does it work?, because there's a major difference.
Dorian Gray said:
Aha, socialists. A funny group, lemme tell you. Communism works well on paper, extrodinarily well, actually, but once you consider the fact that the government will eventually whore away all the money of the nation, and the 'uniform social status' of the nation will become, uh, lower bottem class.
A funny group eh? You must dislike them Europeans. The problem of a corrupt 'government' in communism only arises during the proletarian stage. That's only an example of why the set up for communism doesn't work, not if the finished product works.
The uniform social status' you mention could possibly be a Utopia. That is after all, the entire concept of a single religion.
It just so happens that the Russians were doing it wrong.
Stalin was doing it wrong. He simply wanted power, not a way to bring about a Communist Revolution.
Nomadic groups lacking an obvious leader.
...and? Nomadic groups lacking an obvious leader is what makes it communist.
 

Daniel Faraday

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...and? Nomadic groups lacking an obvious leader is what makes it communist.

In contrast to modern day communisms, like China, in which you've got a government heading everything.

A funny group eh? You must dislike them Europeans. The problem of a corrupt 'government' in communism only arises during the proletarian stage. That's only an example of why the set up for communism doesn't work, not if the finished product works.

Has any government actually managed to establish a working communism, then?

~Dorian Gray
 

Square Ninja

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In contrast to modern day communisms, like China, in which you've got a government heading everything.

That's because in order to reach true communism, you need to establish a purely socialist state. The problem is that the entity created by that refuses to die and let the state become pure communism.

The media was not created to brainwash the public, as much as some conspiracy theorists like to think. It is being used to influence, but that's like saying cars are weapons because someone runs people over. It's up to the people to see through it and, you know, think for themselves. The internet provides us individuals with HUEG amounts of information from different sources. We have the tools to see past the illusion.
 

Vayne Mechanics

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The 'war on terrorism' has been going on for 4-5 years. Where have you been?

Are you trying to ask, does it work?, because there's a major difference.

A funny group eh? You must dislike them Europeans. The problem of a corrupt 'government' in communism only arises during the proletarian stage. That's only an example of why the set up for communism doesn't work, not if the finished product works.
The uniform social status' you mention could possibly be a Utopia. That is after all, the entire concept of a single religion.

Stalin was doing it wrong. He simply wanted power, not a way to bring about a Communist Revolution.

...and? Nomadic groups lacking an obvious leader is what makes it communist.
Ok lemme rephrase a few questions.

Do you SEE communism as bad or wrong?

And SE, the war on "terrorism" as well call it NOW may have been going on for 5 years, but infact, it's truly been going on for 30+ years. It just wasn't called terrorism back then, but rather communism as the LEFT wing (Communism) was portrayed at the time as bad and the RIGHT win (Capitalism) was depicted as good.

Example, there was this one case where the US bombed this country since they thought they were producing arms to attack the US, however it was a factory developing advil (I forget which country, but watch Bowling for Columbine and you'll see which one it is).

Or for example on the war on communism, a few years back the Salvadoran Government was having trouble controlling it's extreme rightest ways, and during that time they CLAIMED to see a Nicaraguan plane crash land into their land. The pilots and passengers killed themselves and they were supposedly supposed to be bringing missiles from the Soviet Union to aid the Salvadoran rebels.

Sure, the Nicaraguans seem bad no? The Soviet Union at the time was a communist country and if you knew your politics, so was Nicaragua. However, Nicaragua couldn't have been transporting weapons for they were already fighting the US on the borders AND they were poor as shit so they needed all the weapons they had. ALSO, the ONLY proof that we got was from the Salvadoran army, which had a right wing policy. The moment a left wing country was mentioned, no more proof was needed. Why? Because the minds in America are influenced to think that all things that oppose or don't follow the US is bad and that the US is good. A hero. That being said, they only needed what the Salvadoran army had reported since once they mentioned communism and the such, most people would assume that "Oh, they're bad and the US is good," and thus, the US no longer needs legitimate proof that it really was the Nicaraguans.

And DG, what I meant about that Media question was:

When it comes to the media (news, newspapers), is everything we see REALLY all there is to see?

And another question:

Do the articles you read have a bias in them? If not, state why.

No shit it does. That's pretty much the whole point of the media, to bombard us with all sorts of sides and opinions until we eventually choose one. Most people rely on what's on the news, too, to help form a decicive opinion. Ergo, we are children of the media.
I lol'd at that. Do you REALLY think that they bombard us with BOTH sides of the argument? I doubt it. When it comes to the media (I've been studying it and how it works), media has a bias and most of the major media industries being in America, they have a Right Wing ideology, thus most of their "opinions" as you call them right wing. HARDLY any left wing ideologies.

Why do I say that? Well let's take a look.

Sure we have shitloads of News Channels and newspapers around, but the question that must be asked, who do they work for? When it comes down to it, there are only like 20 people (not accurate) that control all our media. Take the Toronto Star. Sure it's Canadian, but know where it gets most of it's news? New York Times. The NYT puts up what their stories are going to be the week/day before it's published and well, nearly every other newspaper and news station looks at it and uses their stories. NYT being right wing and being controlled BY someone who is right wing, obviously doesn't have that many left wing statements in their articles.

However, once in a lifetime, we do get the odd left wing supporter. But still, the majority of what you receive is right wing. Take a look at some newspaper articles if they have both sides. WHERE in the article is the right wing view supported and where is the left wing supported? I bet you, 99% of all the support that goes to the left wing is near or at the end of the article. Sure, it's still in it, but guess what? Not too many people actually read the articles. Why and how does this work? Well, when you read the newspaper, you tend to look at the picture, the caption, the title and IF it interests you, the first few paragraphs. If you REALLY like it, you might read further, but you probably won't finish it, unless that is of course, you like it so much, you screw the other articles over and read that. Since most people only read the first few paragraphs, if something is at the end, it's most likely not going to be read. Hence the reason the importance of certain things being at the beginning and at the end. You can clearly see the bias in articles when it comes down to it.

Also, another aspect to consider is, where is the article located? Frontpage? Or is it placed on the last page? Chances are, you won't even get to the last page if you are reading the paper.

The media isn't all that if you really think about it. It's filtered. It's presented in a way that we support their political views and ways of thinking.
 

square-enix

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Do you SEE communism as bad or wrong?
Well, what the hell's the point in asking? Any opinion would be half-assed because they aren't based on anything besides "what ifs"
And SE, the war on "terrorism" as well call it NOW may have been going on for 5 years, but infact, it's truly been going on for 30+ years. It just wasn't called terrorism back then
Right, Communist are terrorist. We just didn't have the gull to call the USSR that.
The Soviet Union at the time was a communist country and if you knew your politics, so was Nicaragua.
You might want to check out what a "communist country" entails and then check out the system the Soviets had.
As for the history lesson you gave, I'm not sure what you're arguing.
<insert media rant>
Aren't you a paranoid one? Sure, we have companies like GE and News Corporation but it's not as you say "almost everything is right-wing". If that were true, there wouldn't be such political tension now a days. As mentioned above, the internet provides a huge amount of sources.
 

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As to the war on terrorism, it goes back to the principle fact of human life: everyone tries to make sure they're right. The "War on Terror" as we see it today, in which the soldiers who watch their comrades die everyday are feeling terror, was started solely because Al-Qaeda wanted to prove that their way was the right way. So, the U.S. fires back and sends troops over to "liberate" the Middle East from dictators to prove that democracy, which we do not have a true one, will flourish. Instead now, the U.S. has messed up the lives of all of the Iraqis, who now no longer have a dictator, but neither do they have a strong central government. If we were to withdraw now, Iraq would collapse inward and it would be the U.S.'s fault. So, the military stays to dig themselves deeper and deeper in this hole that had never been dug.

The basic fact of this is that revenge isn't always right. "An eye for an eye leaves the world blind."- Mohandas Ghandi.
 

Phoenix

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... especially since Iraq hadn't done squat to the USA. It wasn't about revenge, it was paranoia.
 

Square Ninja

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Right, Communist are terrorist. We just didn't have the gull to call the USSR that.

I believe you're missing the point of the comment.

"Terrorism" is today's "Communism." Communism itself is nothing like terrorism, but they are both perceived as this dreadful enemy to American citizens. I doubt anyone here is old enough to remember the Cold War, but you should all know about the kind of fear and panic American society lived in back then. It's emulated to an extent with the current "War on Terror." It's a campaign of fear, really. Sure, it'd be nice if some terrorist cell leaders were caught or killed, but the real goal is the fear. It has worked fairly well so far, seeing as people ran out and bought gas masks at one point.
 

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1) This war on terrorism, how long do you think it has being going on for?

It has been going on for longer than you think, back when the S.S. Maine (I believe that was the name) was destroyed in the Cuban Harbor, people called it a Terrorist Attack. This was back before America entered World War I. Even before this, acts of Terrorism were committed and accused. The actual Iraqi War has been going on for 5-6 years.

The point of this question is a mystery to me though.

2) The media, is everything on the TV what we see?

Of course it isn't, do you really think that Global Warming is as bad as people say? I personally don't and you can debate me on a separate thread about this.

3) Does the media influence our choices?

More than any powered body in the world. Once water came bottled and cost money, the media said that we should be drinking several bottles of water per day. And as of late, the media has said that refilling your bottles of water after previous use is like literally drinking the bottle itself. Why? Most likely to gain more marketing for the BWC (Bottled Water Corporations). Media can be bought guys, remember that.

4) Do we (we meaning you Americans) have a real choice in what you get to do? Or is it influenced which results you in picking the choices that society deems right?

Of course it is influenced, the Constitution was influenced by the treatment of the original Pilgrims of the United States. Our Amendments are influenced by changes in morals throughout the U.S. such as the 13th Amendment which bans slavery within the United States.

Is America a true free country? Is communism bad? Are you afraid that terrorists could strike at any moment? Are you conservative in nature or liberal?

1. America is a free country for its Bill of Rights and 13th Amendment. Not because you can do what you want, when you want, no matter what it does to someone else. That is just plain naive to think that is what America - or any country - stands for.

2. Actually, Communism is the "Gateway" of sorts to the ultimate government, Free Market Capitalism. Communism must be gone through and sustained over a long period of time (hundreds of years) in order for it to slowly evolve into Free Market Capitalism. Communism is only rated as "bad" because of the policies that it enforces and its commonly being mistaken for a Dictatorship.

3. I am neither Conservative nor Liberal. I have my views on what I see, if I find it supportable, I will choose that end. It's all a matter of my own perception. I am not tied down by any Political Party though my opinions sway to either Independent, Liberal, or Republican views.
 
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