Does Santa counter the Christian values of Christmas?

[The Jordan]

The holiday known as 'Christmas' should be seperated into two different ones:

Christmas
People can harp on about how great Jesus was/is and love each other (not like that, you dirty buggers) and bask in the holy season.

Presentmas
People give gifts for no reason other than they want to. No religious connotations whatsoever.

This way the Christians don't get pissed off about degenerating the holiday and others can give presents without being hounded by the religious side.

Also, any help on the name of the new version would be nice. 'Presentmas' doesn't sound quite right.

 

[Eikre]

Name it Winter-een-mas!

But put it this way: People believe what they want to believe, and if that includes giving gifts for no reason other than "The spirit of the season" Be my guest.

If you want to shun society and become a hermit because you hate everyone, thats cool too.

 

[Dogenzaka]

If something so inane as Santa Claus, who 85% of the world knows isn't real in the first place, can interfere with the worship and thanking of God, then they obviously weren't such avid believers as they'd have others believe.

I'm not talking about Christians.

I'm talking about Humanity in general. Santa Claus deviates from the worship of God. If children are too wrapped up in thanking Santa for presents, then they're obviously not doing it to God. Therefore taking away worship from God, being a hinderance to Christianity, etc.

And where did you get the statistic that 85% of people don't believe in Santa? I thought the children population of the world would be much more level, eh?

Also, any help on the name of the new version would be nice. 'Presentmas' doesn't sound quite right.

How about Giftmas?

'tis the season to be giving, falalalalalalalalala.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm talking about Humanity in general. Santa Claus deviates from the worship of God. If children are too wrapped up in thanking Santa for presents, then they're obviously not doing it to God. Therefore taking away worship from God, being a hinderance to Christianity, etc.

As opposed to finding Christmas boring?

 

[Square Ninja]

...hypocritical too, but you already knew that about me. However, I've read your opinions on Christmas with interest thus far, so I'm curious--what do you think of Nemerov's poem?

I think it's far too long to warrant my attention, judging by what the first couple of lines read.

I'm talking about Humanity in general. Santa Claus deviates from the worship of God. If children are too wrapped up in thanking Santa for presents, then they're obviously not doing it to God. Therefore taking away worship from God, being a hinderance to Christianity, etc.

If Santa "hinders" Christianity because people pay tribute to him for the wrong reasons, what about the other symbols and concepts that Christians worship for the wrong reasons? In that case, the concept of an afterlife is detrimental to Christianity. After all, millions of people go to church solely to get a ticket to Paradise. They don't truly practice anything the religion asks of them, so what makes that any different? How about the concept of God, an ever-present omnipotent force watching your every move, judging you all the while? An otherworldy force breathing down people's necks only teaches them one thing, fear. That's largely detrimental to the faith. By your logic, we should get rid of God.

 

[Dogenzaka]

As opposed to finding Christmas boring?

What?
...
I don't get it

After all, millions of people go to church solely to get a ticket to Paradise. They don't truly practice anything the religion asks of them, so what makes that any different?

That's for another topic, but that's wrong as well. Becoming a Christian doesn't just mean "a ticket to heaven" it's devoting the rest of your life to serving God and obeying him, that includes practicing what Christianity teaches.

How about the concept of God, an ever-present omnipotent force watching your every move, judging you all the while? An otherworldy force breathing down people's necks only teaches them one thing, fear.

That would be Islam, not Christianity. Remember, the concept behind Christianity is love for God, and his mercy. The concept behind Islam is fear of God, needing to practice his rituals to avoid Hell.

The God in Christianity is a gentlemen. As you do wrong, and sin, he will point you in the right direction, but it is your choice to continue in your sin or change your ways.

I'm not afraid of God. I fear him in respect that he is God, but I don't do what he says for fear of going to Hell or that he will take his wrath out on me, heavens no. I do it because I love Him =/

 

[Phoenix]

What?
...
I don't get it

say we get rid of the secular presents and transform the holiday into one big mass. The kids get bored. Is that what you want to accomplish?

I'm not afraid of God. I fear him in respect that he is God, but I don't do what he says for fear of going to Hell or that he will take his wrath out on me, heavens no. I do it because I love Him =/

Bully for you. Is Hell real? Is it torture? Then fear applies.

 

[Dogenzaka]

say we get rid of the secular presents and transform the holiday into one big mass. The kids get bored. Is that what you want to accomplish?

Sure why not? XD

I'm fine with presents, but I don't really think it should be as big of a deal as it is =/ I mean companies make, what, half of their yearly revenue in just the 3 months leading towards Christmas? XD

Bully for you. Is Hell real? Is it torture? Then fear applies.

Ah, but true Christians don't join Christianity for fear of punishment, they join it because they want to devote their lives to God :/ that's what it's all about.

 

[Phoenix]

Then about 90% of the people are gonna get tortured.

From a scientific point of view, I'd say God should take up another hobby, like knitting.

 

[Alaude Drenxta]

And where did you get the statistic that 85% of people don't believe in Santa? I thought the children population of the world would be much more level, eh?

A little fun fact for you.
Not even 33% of the world is christian these days, and the majority of christians are above the age of 13, which is, at bare minimum the age where you learn Santa isn't real. Meaning, that 85% of people are adult, non-christians, and various kids who don't believe. Just the non-christians top off about 66%, the other 19 is bare minimum. I wouldn't doubt it if the percentage isn't 95%.

 

[Square Ninja]

That would be Islam, not Christianity. Remember, the concept behind Christianity is love for God, and his mercy. The concept behind Islam is fear of God, needing to practice his rituals to avoid Hell.

Hahaha...love and mercy? He certainly proves that when He condemns your soul to an eternity of torment for not loving Him enough.

Oh, and about that Islam comment, smells like ignorance and hypocracy.

The God in Christianity is a gentlemen. As you do wrong, and sin, he will point you in the right direction, but it is your choice to continue in your sin or change your ways.

He seems really gentlemanly in the Old Testament, what with plagues and pillars of salt.

Let's try to reign this back onto the topic now.

If you can argue that the Christian concept of God does not hinder the religion, then Santa Clause doesn't either. God, according to you and others, stands for love and mercy. Santa Clause stands for kindness and giving. You can bring all the marketing garbage you want into this, and I in turn will just present you with the not so pleasant side of God.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Why do Christian parents not give presents with "God" or "Jesus Christ" written as the giver, I wonder?

I know families that do. In fact, my family used to do that xD

 

[Phoenix]

Lmfao. That helps people take the first step in leaving a religion.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Hahaha...love and mercy? He certainly proves that when He condemns your soul to an eternity of torment for not loving Him enough.

You're immature if you don't understand justice.

"LOL I CAN GO SHOOT THIS PEEPULZ"
Judge: You broke the law.
"BUT YOU LUBS ME"
Judge: But I have to punish you for breaking the law
*Jailed*

Understand now?

Love has justice in it.

My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth. (Proverbs 3: 11-12)

It's simply justice.

Your excuse, is you do something wrong, like sin, and expect not to take responsibility for your actions. You do something wrong, and expect that you can get away with it every time. Love is just.

 

[Phoenix]

"LOL I CAN GO SHOOT THIS PEEPULZ"
Judge: You broke the law.
"BUT YOU LUBS ME"
Judge: But I have to punish you for breaking the law
*Jailed*

Gandhi: I helped all I could, I sued for peace and I loved all humans.
God: *takes a candle and sticks it in Gandhi's eye*

 

[Square Ninja]

You're immature if you don't understand justice.

"LOL I CAN GO SHOOT THIS PEEPULZ"
Judge: You broke the law.
"BUT YOU LUBS ME"
Judge: But I have to punish you for breaking the law
*Jailed*

Understand now?

You're immature if you think it's so black and white.

Your excuse, is you do something wrong, like sin, and expect not to take responsibility for your actions. You do something wrong, and expect that you can get away with it every time. Love is just.

Then you completely misunderstood my argument.