What happens to a shell when its destroyed? It has no heart, so does it just perish? (If someone could help me, I want to know all the dailogue that Marluxia had with Sora during Sora stay on the final floor) This is kind of a part 2 to my last thread of "Shell Business" which I must thank for the positiveness. Well, Sora and Riku destroyed a total of 5 Order Members in Castle Oblivion. Each one felt like it was the total end for them. "I'm not ready to fade/go yet!" -Vexen- "With my LAST strength I will send you to the realm of darkness"-Lexaeus- " I refuse to go like this!" -Larxene-..you get my point, and the quotes arent exact, but somewhat close. Well since all of the Shells that were destroyed, hearts were already destroyed, they were able to die. This is where my beliefs come in. I believe that the heart of a shell must be complete in order for it to complete pass. Whether dead, heartless, or alive. Remember in Final Mix as the Enigmatic Man was fading in and out? I think this was happening because his heart was not complete. When I say his heart, I mean Ansem. Nope.. I will state once again that Ansem and DiZ must be one inorder for the EM to beable to accomplish his goal to become a perfect existence once again. I strongly believe in this theory, but we haven't heard hardly anything about Sora's shell. Im kinda glad too. It leaves the game to explain it. But ofcourse, for it to be complete again, or to be able to be defeated, BHK and Sora will have to be one. I hope this makes sense... Ciao
Einon's Logic 101
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I'm sure most of it will be revealed in KHII. However, think about what happens to a Heartless when it disappears. What then? I think something similiar happens.
You want know untill kh2 is finally out!
Well the heart returns to kingdom hearts when the heartless dies. Thats a big part of what Ansem was saying all along. Even though KH may not be darkness, but heart still goes there. A shell doesnt have a heart, so I dont think it goes to KH. I think it just plain perishes
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I really feel like ignoring this theory, because I just feel too lazy to tell you why it's wrong *sigh*
Just trust me when I say that what your saying is good and all, but the thing with Ansem/Diz/EM is completely wrong....
Maybe when I feel like it, I'll come back and explain why that's wrong.... *yawn*
Just trust me when I say that what your saying is good and all, but the thing with Ansem/Diz/EM is completely wrong....
Maybe when I feel like it, I'll come back and explain why that's wrong.... *yawn*
I will await your reply then.
kh is dark...............when shells die they just fade away because they are nobody and they never really existed..........that diz/ansem/em theory is wrong i would explain it but im tired and its late
Im tired of this excuse... "im tired...im lazy." there is no way that there is proof that this DiZ/EM/Ansem theory is completly wrong because I would not have posted and I post with logic only. I theorize as well so it might not be true, but there is no proof of it not. If you wanna know why I feel this theory is possible, (1) Look on the Final Mix poster. You see Donald, Riku, Kairi, and Goofy in a heart, You see Sora in the middle of the pic, EM on the left and Ansem on the right. You know its the EM because he is the only Order that shows up in Final Mix. Now look at the Enigmatic Man. You can only see his mouth, and his skin color which is quite similar if not exactly the same as Ansem's. Easy to tell, they are right across from eachother in the same pose. I dont think thats just a coincidence. Else.. There are no proof that DiZ isnt the other side of Ansem's heart. Sure he looks exactly like Ansem shells should, but if you would put a wrapping covering the majority of BHK's body and face, you'd think he was Sora in a disguise. Also, if you look back a few months to one of the reports from SE's party, they mention that DiZ asks EM's name. He then replies "I am nobody!" quite angrily it mentions. Why would he do that? Is it because of the hassle he knows he has to go through to become whole again(which is posted in my previous post) The Enigmatic Man didnt catch attitude with Sora in Final Mix. He said to Sora," I am a mere shell." Simply like that. Now there is reason to catch attitude with DiZ. He kneeds DiZ to Become one with Ansem. DiZ doesnt know who EM is. Hasnt seen his face either. Thats why he wants to know who he is. Thats why EM is cooperating with DiZ for awhile. I dont think that DiZ wants the Order to become whole again because they obviously have something up there sleeve. Sorry if you still cant understand and from my view point, there is nothing that can prove my theory wrong. Im not trying to be cocky, I may just be blinded by my own ideas. If you can find proof, I ask you to please tell show me. Thanks.. I feel like Im leaving something out though.
RikuHeroOfDark...Get off of The Muffinman
RikuHeroOfDark...Get off of The Muffinman
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Fine, Fine, Fine >_>
If you want me to, I will....
First off:
Body and Soul cannot seperate. Ansem is purely sustaining life with his Heart, due to rthe fact that it is emencly strong.
Diz cannot be part of Ansem's Heart, because Ansem would not be able to sustain life with only half a heart. Also, if Diz is only Ansem's Heart, with no body or Soul, then he would not have a form. When your sustaining life on only the Heart (Somehting only Ansem was ever able to do) then you have no form, your your essentially just a voice, hiding under a cloak, as Ansem did, until you can find a vessel willing to open thier Heart to you. Ansem used Riku as a vessel, and once he did this, he finally had a form
We only ever see a silhoette of EM's face, so don't go one about skin tones here.
In order for EM to be Ansem's Shell, he would have to be both the Body and Soul. And since we already established that Diz cannot possibly be part of Ansem's heart, then that would mean that only 1 of them could possibly have a relation to Ansem, since they can't both Be Shell's of him...
Now, think on this....if there were only 2 canidates for Ansem's Shell, 1 who is always under a cloak, and one with aAnsem's eyes, skin, voice, and face.... who do you think is the Shell?
Diz of coarse....
Secondly, the person seen hanging around Diz is not the EM. In a interview with Nomura, Nomura stated that in the Hollow Bastion Gathering scene, the EM was the one who raised his arms and summoned the rest of the Order. He is the one in the ceneter.
nomura then stated that the Order Member that hangs out qwith Diz, is the one that Sora is about to attack, while they are pulling down thier hood...
Therefore the person who Diz was talking to, and asked who thier name was, was not the EM, but the person who was aobut to pull thier hood down in The Gathering...
Now fo your theory about Diz tricking Riku into accepting the Darkness, so that Diz could become whole again...
Diz was helping Riku destroy Ansem, remember? Diz gave Riku an ultimatum in the Pod room in R/R...
He offered to make it so that Ansem would never be able to control Riku again, but the cost would be Riku's memory's...Riku asked what the second chouice was...and Diz said that he would leave Riku alone, and allow him to take care of Ansem himself....
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Like I said....I agree with everything that you said, except for the Ansem/Diz/Em part...
If you want me to, I will....
First off:
Body and Soul cannot seperate. Ansem is purely sustaining life with his Heart, due to rthe fact that it is emencly strong.
Diz cannot be part of Ansem's Heart, because Ansem would not be able to sustain life with only half a heart. Also, if Diz is only Ansem's Heart, with no body or Soul, then he would not have a form. When your sustaining life on only the Heart (Somehting only Ansem was ever able to do) then you have no form, your your essentially just a voice, hiding under a cloak, as Ansem did, until you can find a vessel willing to open thier Heart to you. Ansem used Riku as a vessel, and once he did this, he finally had a form
We only ever see a silhoette of EM's face, so don't go one about skin tones here.
In order for EM to be Ansem's Shell, he would have to be both the Body and Soul. And since we already established that Diz cannot possibly be part of Ansem's heart, then that would mean that only 1 of them could possibly have a relation to Ansem, since they can't both Be Shell's of him...
Now, think on this....if there were only 2 canidates for Ansem's Shell, 1 who is always under a cloak, and one with aAnsem's eyes, skin, voice, and face.... who do you think is the Shell?
Diz of coarse....
Secondly, the person seen hanging around Diz is not the EM. In a interview with Nomura, Nomura stated that in the Hollow Bastion Gathering scene, the EM was the one who raised his arms and summoned the rest of the Order. He is the one in the ceneter.
nomura then stated that the Order Member that hangs out qwith Diz, is the one that Sora is about to attack, while they are pulling down thier hood...
Therefore the person who Diz was talking to, and asked who thier name was, was not the EM, but the person who was aobut to pull thier hood down in The Gathering...
Now fo your theory about Diz tricking Riku into accepting the Darkness, so that Diz could become whole again...
Diz was helping Riku destroy Ansem, remember? Diz gave Riku an ultimatum in the Pod room in R/R...
He offered to make it so that Ansem would never be able to control Riku again, but the cost would be Riku's memory's...Riku asked what the second chouice was...and Diz said that he would leave Riku alone, and allow him to take care of Ansem himself....
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Like I said....I agree with everything that you said, except for the Ansem/Diz/Em part...
Okay, in a rubutle...Ansem is just a heart and had to use a vessel. I know this. You dont think its strange that we have seen DiZ in no action and the only combat we see him involved with is when BHK cant touch him? Yes.. DiZ has no body. You just take it too literal. Thats the difference between Sora/BHK and Ansem/DiZ. Sora and BHK have bodies where as DiZ and Ansem do not.
(2)
"Secondly, the person seen hanging around Diz is not the EM. In a interview with Nomura, Nomura stated that in the Hollow Bastion Gathering scene, the EM was the one who raised his arms and summoned the rest of the Order. He is the one in the ceneter.[/QUOTE= Themuffinman]
The following is courtesy of Suzaku from GameFAQS:
"In the scene where DiZ is scene speaking to the Enigmatic Man in a room, they are speaking about Namine. Diz says "When Naminé takes over the data by force influence is exerted over the memories and hearts of those linked to Sora and Sora." The Enigmatic Man then replied by saying, "The mysterious Naminé is someone's Nobody?" DiZ then asks the Enigmatic Man what his name is, the EM replies with "I am nobody," angrily."
I know when Nomura said that the center Org member was EM and the one Sora was attacking is the one who is later then seen talking with DiZ. Tesuya was talking about that first trailer. Im talking about pics and scans that we later recieved. In some of the newer scans we have, we see DiZ sitting in the lower right corner and the EM standing next to him in some type of hight tech room. That is when DiZ is talking to the Enigamatic Man. And his hood is still on. http://www.khinsider.com/images/082905_3.jpg image is on that scan.
I seriously cant find the Final Mix poster where you can see EM's skin.. I will keep seaching for it.
(3) This is where I think you are confused just a little bit. Just because Someone is on the otherside of one's heart, It does not meen that you have only half a heart. It just means, that there are some things that you do not know that are held on the other side. I dont know where some get the notion that Sora has only part of a heart because BHK is from the otherside. Therefore, It is possible for DiZ to be the otherside of Ansem's FULL heart.
(4)
What was DiZ's nickname that Riku had? "Voice" Yes... spent most of the time as only voice.. ofcourse he could have been hiding, but he was a voice rather than showing himself. Also, just because you can see his eye, means nothing..it does not mean that he has a body..its just a way letting you know its him. Why else would he use such a disguise? To show that he has no form I say.
Now I agree with you in that DiZ gave Riku the ultamatum. He gave Riku the choice to lock the darkness along with Ansem in Riku's heart forever. I just did post it. I was posting how I believe that IF DiZ were evil, thats what he would have done. Ya see, If I posted everything I thought, then the post would be much much longer than the ones I already do. And no one wants to read all that.
Is there something that Im forgetting to back up?
(2)
"Secondly, the person seen hanging around Diz is not the EM. In a interview with Nomura, Nomura stated that in the Hollow Bastion Gathering scene, the EM was the one who raised his arms and summoned the rest of the Order. He is the one in the ceneter.[/QUOTE= Themuffinman]
The following is courtesy of Suzaku from GameFAQS:
"In the scene where DiZ is scene speaking to the Enigmatic Man in a room, they are speaking about Namine. Diz says "When Naminé takes over the data by force influence is exerted over the memories and hearts of those linked to Sora and Sora." The Enigmatic Man then replied by saying, "The mysterious Naminé is someone's Nobody?" DiZ then asks the Enigmatic Man what his name is, the EM replies with "I am nobody," angrily."
I know when Nomura said that the center Org member was EM and the one Sora was attacking is the one who is later then seen talking with DiZ. Tesuya was talking about that first trailer. Im talking about pics and scans that we later recieved. In some of the newer scans we have, we see DiZ sitting in the lower right corner and the EM standing next to him in some type of hight tech room. That is when DiZ is talking to the Enigamatic Man. And his hood is still on. http://www.khinsider.com/images/082905_3.jpg image is on that scan.
I seriously cant find the Final Mix poster where you can see EM's skin.. I will keep seaching for it.
(3) This is where I think you are confused just a little bit. Just because Someone is on the otherside of one's heart, It does not meen that you have only half a heart. It just means, that there are some things that you do not know that are held on the other side. I dont know where some get the notion that Sora has only part of a heart because BHK is from the otherside. Therefore, It is possible for DiZ to be the otherside of Ansem's FULL heart.
(4)
Themuffinman said:
What was DiZ's nickname that Riku had? "Voice" Yes... spent most of the time as only voice.. ofcourse he could have been hiding, but he was a voice rather than showing himself. Also, just because you can see his eye, means nothing..it does not mean that he has a body..its just a way letting you know its him. Why else would he use such a disguise? To show that he has no form I say.
Now I agree with you in that DiZ gave Riku the ultamatum. He gave Riku the choice to lock the darkness along with Ansem in Riku's heart forever. I just did post it. I was posting how I believe that IF DiZ were evil, thats what he would have done. Ya see, If I posted everything I thought, then the post would be much much longer than the ones I already do. And no one wants to read all that.
Is there something that Im forgetting to back up?
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Yes but see, Ansem physically had no form at all. If he pulls down his cloack, he would be a wisp of smoke, or a cloud, or possible a black mass.
Diz has a physical form and appearance, and is therefore, not a heart sutaining life.
Secondly, what you provided was an article for GAMEFAQS....
Gamefaqs is not Nomura. They are assuming that it's the EM. If the one pulling down his hood, is the one who was seen with diz in the 'They must not know our plans Ansem" scene, then isn't it more likely that the person in the scene you told of, is the same person? It's more likely that they are the same person, and not 2 different people...
I agree with you Other Side part...
Diz has a physical form and appearance, and is therefore, not a heart sutaining life.
Secondly, what you provided was an article for GAMEFAQS....
Gamefaqs is not Nomura. They are assuming that it's the EM. If the one pulling down his hood, is the one who was seen with diz in the 'They must not know our plans Ansem" scene, then isn't it more likely that the person in the scene you told of, is the same person? It's more likely that they are the same person, and not 2 different people...
I agree with you Other Side part...
why do we have to think this hard???
p.s. im kinda freaked out right now because this guy online has asked me to be his gf and he lives in virginia?!?! Someone please help me
p.s. im kinda freaked out right now because this guy online has asked me to be his gf and he lives in virginia?!?! Someone please help me
I alright alright, I thank you for your rationality. I dont want to debate this anymore. But... I do live for these kinda discussions... heh Ciao
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