Lee's life for lies??

[Ryu]

To the contrary. Soldiers are capable of the most cruelest thing because instinct overrides emotion. That's why they come back insane at what they have done. Rape, torture, murder and so on.

When put on the line of "kill or be killed", I think most people would have their 'instinct' override emotion. However like you said, the emotion gets back at them afterwards when the life-or-death situation has passed.

This seems like a movie that might be pointless. If it comes to YouTube I'll watch it, but I refuse to take up the space on my computer for what seems to me is just another conspiracy about the war.

Agreed.

In the meanwhile I'll wait for Youtube. So far this just sounds like another reason for activists to keep nagging. As said many times before, if you sign up for the army you are aware of the fact that you agree to taking the risk of dying for your country. Whether it's by the means of a gun or whatever else shouldn't matter. And even though this statement is slightly flawed - because you could say the same about going outside knowing there's a slight risk you'll get run over, and putting all the blame on the person who died instead of the person who ignored the red light - I'll have to agree with it.

Even though it's brought up before, I must say again, who the hell calls himself an anti-war activist and then goes to join the military? Hell, if you're that much against the war you could just not join the military, or refuse to go which results in maybe a few years imprisonment or a discharge from the military at the most. But I'm guessing this is just another redneck who decided to join the military "because he loves his country lol".

Also, I'm assuming that stopinsanity only joined to post this article, to never return and join in this discussion, or any of this forums' even. I would really like to hear a decent reason from him/her as to why we should even consider downloading this.

 

[Devious]

It seems apparant that if anyone downloads that movie it might be a virus or some sort of phishing site (a site that literally fishes through your computer to find information such as credit card info, passwords, etc.) and no one in their right mind would download it unless it has some form of credable member posting it. Nice try.

 

[CK the Fat]

Or perhaps just a political activist who thinks one thread is enough to change people's minds, without thinking that people would challenge it.

Either way, I'm not downloading squat

 

[Phoenix]

When put on the line of "kill or be killed", I think most people would have their 'instinct' override emotion. However like you said, the emotion gets back at them afterwards when the life-or-death situation has passed.

Me included. Those that don't do it this way don't come back.

 

[Ysu]

Doesn't matter, because they still signed themselves up for 2 or more years of military service. Sucks to be them if they change their mind halfway through, the military wants you to do exactly as told, no questions asked.

Its too bad we're not robots. We "override" our progams you could say. People change. That should be apparent in everyday life. A soldier today can be an anti-war activist tomorrow, and its because people change.

 

[CK the Fat]

Its too bad we're not robots. We "override" our progams you could say. People change. That should be apparent in everyday life. A soldier today can be an anti-war activist tomorrow, and its because people change.

I'm not saying a soldier can't be an anti-war activist. I'm saying that anyone who dies in battle, who is a soldier, put out a contract that said they would give their lives if deemed necessary by their superior officers.

 

[Ysu]

Theres one thing people don't get. Soldiers aren't Anti-Iraq War because of the deaths. They're anti-Iraq war because it was a mistake. The reasons behind it were lies and the reason for being there now is propaganda. Thats why Iraq veterans are against the war. They don't agree with it.

 

[Phoenix]

If they change their minds? A real shame. We all have to take responsibility for our actions, however stupid they may have been at that point, and however much we have changed.

Murderers can reform, hell, even rapists can reform. That doesn't mean they're not criminals.

 

[CK the Fat]

The reasons behind it were lies and the reason for being there now is propaganda.

Propoganda comes from more than one source, you know. I'm sure there are also veterans and soldiers who believe that what they are doing is right and that being in Iraq has created new possibilities and freedoms that were impossible under Saddam. But guess who has control of the media?

 

[Ysu]

Propoganda comes from more than one source, you know. I'm sure there are also veterans and soldiers who believe that what they are doing is right and that being in Iraq has created new possibilities and freedoms that were impossible under Saddam.

A brilliant example of propaganda at work!

But guess who has control of the media?

The Corporations of course, the same corporations who support the Bush Administration.

 

[CK the Fat]

[quote[A brilliant example of propaganda at work![/quote]

Ah, so helping someone out of the kindness of one's heart and sense of duty is propoganda now? Do you honestly think there is not a single reason with a moral background that Bush believes when he sent troops?

The Corporations of course, the same corporations who support the Bush Administration.

Simply put: wrong. If this were true, then everything you'd see on TV, read on the internet or inthe papers, would lean Republican, wouldn't it? Yeah, not so much...

 

[Ysu]

Ah, so helping someone out of the kindness of one's heart and sense of duty is propoganda now? Do you honestly think there is not a single reason with a moral background that Bush believes when he sent troops?

Yes, pure propaganda. You will help this country because your president says so, yet you are puzzled when someone mentions Darfur or any other area thats not rich in resources that our President needs. Do you honestly believe in those "morals" or have you been conditioned to believe so? Also, as I recall, most people were originally supporting the war in order to "kill those terrorist scum."

Simply put: wrong. If this were true, then everything you'd see on TV, read on the internet or inthe papers, would lean Republican, wouldn't it? Yeah, not so much...

They're control comes not in the form of what goes on the air, but how much of it goes on the air. Too many things are kept away from the public eye. Things the media never reports on.

btw, I didn't count the internet under what the Media is. The Internet is a forum of free expression and something that no corporation, no matter how powerful, can ever control.

 

[CK the Fat]

Yes, pure propaganda. You will help this country because your president says so, yet you are puzzled when someone mentions Darfur or any other area thats not rich in resources that our President needs. Do you honestly believe in those "morals" or have you been conditioned to believe so? Also, as I recall, most people were originally supporting the war in order to "kill those terrorist scum."

Don't you think it's possible there is a single soldier over there, aware of the factors involving Iraq, who is doing it to help the Iraqi population and fellow human beings? Or is every American soldier who has gone to Iraq some dimwitt who is just following orders without a second thought?

Technically speaking, any kind of moral code is propoganda, since it's all been told to you to get you to act one way or another.

Let me ask you this: how much propoganda do you think you have absorbed with the entire "Iraq is a mistake, nothing good at all comes from it, Iraq is nothing but propoganda?" The media is having a field day with this war with all its inflamations, which all the gory photos they can put in the papers, with all the attention-grabbing headlines of death and destruction and endless violence and its raving democrats that we should pull out this very second. That's because it's what people like to hear, the media just loves to read and shake their head about all the "evil" going on in the world, because somehow no one has anything to do with it except a few figures that can be pinpointed... Exactly how accurate of a picture do you think the media is showing? Aka... propoganda.

They're control comes not in the form of what goes on the air, but how much of it goes on the air. Too many things are kept away from the public eye. Things the media never reports on.

Freedom of speech, the government cannot keep a program from the air, or how much. And the reason why a lot doesn't come to the public eye is this: no reporter has inquired, or newspapers hold back due to possible backlashes.

btw, I didn't count the internet under what the Media is. The Internet is a forum of free expression and something that no corporation, no matter how powerful, can ever control.

Every time you go to a website that ends in .com, you have just interacted with corporate media. The internet, the majority that any person sees, is media.

 

[Phoenix]

Freedom of speech, the government cannot keep a program from the air, or how much.

That's what it says on the paper, anyway XD

 

[Ysu]

Don't you think it's possible there is a single soldier over there, aware of the factors involving Iraq, who is doing it to help the Iraqi population and fellow human beings? Or is every American soldier who has gone to Iraq some dimwitt who is just following orders without a second thought?

Perhaps a single one, perhaps a couple thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. But that still leaves a large chunk of the army composed of "Terrorist hating rednecks."

Let me ask you this: how much propoganda do you think you have absorbed with the entire "Iraq is a mistake, nothing good at all comes from it, Iraq is nothing but propoganda?" The media is having a field day with this war with all its inflamations, which all the gory photos they can put in the papers, with all the attention-grabbing headlines of death and destruction and endless violence and its raving democrats that we should pull out this very second. That's because it's what people like to hear, the media just loves to read and shake their head about all the "evil" going on in the world, because somehow no one has anything to do with it except a few figures that can be pinpointed... Exactly how accurate of a picture do you think the media is showing? Aka... propoganda.

No Anti-Iraq War critic listens to the media. The media is as corrupted as the Bush Administration. Your pointing the finger at the wrong propoganda.

Freedom of speech, the government cannot keep a program from the air, or how much. And the reason why a lot doesn't come to the public eye is this: no reporter has inquired, or newspapers hold back due to possible backlashes.

And that is exactly what they want you to believe.

Every time you go to a website that ends in .com, you have just interacted with corporate media. The internet, the majority that any person sees, is media.

The only difference being that media on the internet is impossible to control. It may be corporate, but its not corporate controlled.

 

[Devious]

That's because it's what people like to hear, the media just loves to read and shake their head about all the "evil" going on in the world, because somehow no one has anything to do with it except a few figures that can be pinpointed...

Exactly, when someone looks towards the media they look for something that will grab their attention. Propoganda in any form, be it democratic, green, republican, liberal, etc. When we look in the media we look for something we find scary, the media itself is - as l4t1n0 said - corrupt, because even through the example of this whole global warming bull we are believing in it just to scare us. The human mind loves to be scared, whether you doubt that or not it is true. So we search repeatedly for something to scare us, like the "Trade Center Attacks were a Government Conspiracy" or some crap that seems to fit the profile.

We search for these to scare us and then spread it in order to spread the fear. Again I will bring up the example of Global Warming only because it is a similar scenario. 30 years ago we believed in Global Cooling in which the world was slowly - but surely - growing colder by the year. 20 years later it flip-flops on us and takes a turn for the worse by creating a Nationwide scare that we will all burn like maggots. Where on this planet do we hear any scientists that are trying to disprove such a belief? So far no one has noticed that they are left out. A concensus is easily reached when the opposing factors are eliminated from the charts. And what about this? It is exactly the same, but on a political standpoint.

 

[CK the Fat]

Perhaps a single one, perhaps a couple thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. But that still leaves a large chunk of the army composed of "Terrorist hating rednecks."

And does that chunk of terrorist-hating rednecks make the actions of those who are in Iraq for non-propoganda-inspired, moral reasons completely worthless? A mistake?

No Anti-Iraq War critic listens to the media. The media is as corrupted as the Bush Administration. Your pointing the finger at the wrong propoganda.

Um... no. Most peolple who disfavor the Iraq war, disfavor it because of the media. Yes, you will have the experts who get the facts without media assistance... but they are on both sides of the debate, not just anti-Iraq.

So where exactly can we draw "pure" facts about the war, if not from the Bush Administration and not from the Media?

And that is exactly what they want you to believe.

Yes, and when the government supposedly infringes on a right... ever heard of the Supreme Court?

The only difference being that media on the internet is impossible to control. It may be corporate, but its not corporate controlled.

Media nonetheless. In a way, it's even worse, because the repercussions of flat-out lying go unpunished, whereas television stations would have to endure repercussion.

 

[Ysu]

We search for these to scare us and then spread it in order to spread the fear. Again I will bring up the example of Global Warming only because it is a similar scenario. 30 years ago we believed in Global Cooling in which the world was slowly - but surely - growing colder by the year. 20 years later it flip-flops on us and takes a turn for the worse by creating a Nationwide scare that we will all burn like maggots. Where on this planet do we hear any scientists that are trying to disprove such a belief? So far no one has noticed that they are left out. A concensus is easily reached when the opposing factors are eliminated from the charts. And what about this? It is exactly the same, but on a political standpoint.

Global Warming is a theory. That means its neither completely wrong, nor completely right. It still has time to change. Unlike your assumption however, Global Warming has Scientific evidence to support it. The reason Scientists don't disprove it is because its something you can't disprove. Scientists do argue however, that fixing the global warming problem may raise the average temperature by 20 degrees, which will definately affect us.

And does that chunk of terrorist-hating rednecks make the actions of those who are in Iraq for non-propoganda-inspired, moral reasons completely worthless? A mistake?

Their not worthless. I'm not some Kansas Southern Baptist Church who protests at funerals. I support the troops. I support them in a decision that will bring them home and stability to Iraq. So far, they have yet to do that.

The Iraq war a mistake. A complete mistake, but not one we can't fix. I don't believe the Bush administration has what it takes to fix this.

So where exactly can we draw "pure" facts about the war, if not from the Bush Administration and not from the Media?

From the internet, from other sources and from our own personal research.

Yes, and when the government supposedly infringes on a right... ever heard of the Supreme Court?

When was the last time they cared about the Constitution? I mean, Bush has yet to be impeached for infringing on our right to privacy. He basically spit on the Constitution.

 

[Phoenix]

Global Warming is a theory. That means its neither completely wrong, nor completely right. It still has time to change. Unlike your assumption however, Global Warming has Scientific evidence to prove it. The reason Scientists don't disprove it is because its something you can't disprove. Scientists do argue however, that fixing the global warming problem may raise the average temperature by 20 degrees, which will definately affect us.

Global Warming is a theory. Meaning we don't know how it happens, all we know is it does.

 

[CK the Fat]

From the internet, from other sources and from our own personal research.

Internet = media and propoganda.
Other sources? Like television? Radio? All of them are media, and quite often biased at that.

When was the last time they cared about the Constitution? I mean, Bush has yet to be impeached for infringing on our right to privacy. He basically spit on the Constitution.

Actually, it is a presidential power to suspend habeus corpus and freedom of speech in states of war.

Global Warming is a theory. Meaning we don't know how it happens, all we know is it does.

I was taught Global Warming was due in part to the Greenhouse effect.