Relig/Philo ► Organized religion is a problem

[Sonofjafar]

just to clarify, when I say organized religion I mean religious groups that have amassed big enough following for their views on certain matters to actually effect the views of what are supposed to be separated government bodies. Case in point, Roe v Wade being overturned becomes a bunch of Christian whack jobs put the rights of babies over the rights of women. Organized religion has been giving off a very bad vibe of “share our opinions or be punished” for millennia and that ain’t cool. Many people in my country alone have caused massive problems because whatever magic being in the clouds they believe in told them to. And this is not supposed to be possible. The separation of church and state clearly means for religious institutions to keep the noses out of political business. Yet here we are going down a slippery slope that starts at abortion and leads on to things like gay marriage and pretty much everything progressive that has happened in the last few years. If your religion is currently preaching bigotry and the suppression of individual rights, you have every right to tell them and whatever deity they worship to suck it.

 

[2 quid is good]

Didn't realise this was r/im14andthisisdeep

Or alternatively, r/atheism.

This isn't the first time you've posted a thread with a good point that's surrounded by layers of utterly ridiculous thinking.

 

[Sonofjafar]

Didn't realise this was r/im14andthisisdeep

Or alternatively, r/atheism.

This isn't the first time you've posted a thread with a good point that's surrounded by layers of utterly ridiculous thinking.

Is blaming the organized efforts of religious groups for the state government’s newly gained ability to end abortion really that ridiculous? Also, real classy, associating my argument with Reddit.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Organized religions by themselves are not a problem per se.
Problems tend to flare up when said "religions" or rather more fanatic followers of said faith start to try and force their views onto other parts of society and start to get mixed with politics and general social norms.

Religion is a private thing and has no business trying to influence political policy.
Theocractic "governments" based on religion tend to be as oppressive and vile as fascist or communist regimes as they're all part of totalitarian types of governments.
Religion having a say in politics and general social matters of a society is deepest middle ages, only going to stone age itself would be more backwards.

 

[Sonofjafar]

Organized religions by themselves are not a problem per se.
Problems tend to flare up when said "religions" or rather more fanatic followers of said faith start to try and force their views onto other parts of society and start to get mixed with politics and general social norms.

Religion is a private thing and has no business trying to influence political policy.
Theocractic "governments" based on religion tend to be as oppressive and vile as fascist or communist regimes as they're all part of totalitarian types of governments.
Religion having a say in politics and general social matters of a society is deepest middle ages, only going to stone age itself would be more backwards.

At least someone around here seems to get where I’m coming from. Like I said, the recent situation in the US involving abortion is a prime example of the religious right shoving their beliefs into societal/political matters for the worst

 

[2 quid is good]

I do get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree but your manner of conveying your point is apalling and pretty rude and offensive. I've made it a point to simply not interact much at all on this topic with people who have juvenile views on religion. With regards to this specific case - America suffers from a lot of different problems that all combine together to lead to terrible decisions like this. It doesn't do at all to simply start being dismissive of religion and start being derogatory about it when its the works of a handful of well-connected people whipping up others into a frenzy. I'm not a Christian btw.

 

[Sonofjafar]

I do get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree but your manner of conveying your point is apalling and pretty rude and offensive. I've made it a point to simply not interact much at all on this topic with people who have juvenile views on religion. With regards to this specific case - America suffers from a lot of different problems that all combine together to lead to terrible decisions like this. It doesn't do at all to simply start being dismissive of religion and start being derogatory about it when its the works of a handful of well-connected people whipping up others into a frenzy. I'm not a Christian btw.

Well I got my grievances out so I’m good

 

[2 quid is good]

It's okay for you to be consistently rude as long as you feel good about it afterwards, I see how it is now

EDIT: To address the thread of the title: Organised religion is not a problem. Organised anything is inherently not a problem (unless it's fascism or something). What is a problem is when people manipulate and co opt groups for an extreme cause. I think many people who identify with one of the major religions has been feeling the brunt of this within the last 20 or so years - some more than others - and its frustrating time and time again to hear that the people propagating terrible decisions and acts - from OP's example on abortion to terrorist attacks - are always of the same description i.e they aren't anywhere close to being practising members of the faiths that they so publicly claim they're a part of.

The hypocrisy alone is one thing, but the damage done to normal people who just want to live their lives is horrendous. I'm talking about the victims of these acts of course, but misaimed retribution is also often a thing. I don't really hide this fact but I am a Muslim, I'm proud of it too, and I think I know what I'm talking about when I say It's pretty obvious that there's an acceptable target for being a bigot towards these days. Religion is a nice catch-all for it, what's even worse is that often this line of thinking is applauded as being progressive. I disagree.

The real issue with American politics as that's the example OP gave is that the root cause of everything comes back to money. You think these decisions are done based on ideological purity? Of course not. Look a little deeper and you'll no doubt find someone somewhere is benefitting financially from this - which people are not likely to look for right now because this is a terrible decision and rightly, people are looking to oppose it by as many means as they can think of. I can't think of the last time anything in either the USA or the UK was done for idealogical purity. I suppose Brexit is one but everyone knows Johnson didn't believe in it at all. Not sure if it counts, and anyway, again, certain people stood to have a lot of financial gain from it.

I guess the takeaway is do not be so quick to begin propagating divisions when the people at the top are all in it together anyway, and financially benefitting off of us to boot.

 

[Sonofjafar]

It's okay for you to be consistently rude as long as you feel good about it afterwards, I see how it is now

Hey you don’t live in a breeding grounds for the morons who voted for this stuff (specifically Texas)

Edit: I wouldn’t exactly call wanting certain political figures to get proper punishment for messing up the free world rude

 

[2 quid is good]

Hey you don’t live in a breeding grounds for the morons who voted for this stuff (specifically Texas)

Edit: I wouldn’t exactly call wanting certain political figures to get proper punish enemy for messing up the free world rude

I was taking issue with your blanket statements towards the end of your post regarding religion

 

[Sonofjafar]

I was taking issue with your blanket statements towards the end of your post regarding religion

I was referring the previous post you had a problem with but fine

 

[Sonofjafar]

Religion is a business. A big business. Its product is fraud, so yes, a scam. Religion has the most successful marketing tools, especially the use of the carrot and the stick. Religions have a marketing toolbox par excellence! They control their followers not just on Sunday but every day of their lives, and the followers do not even see it! Take prayer: they’re told what to pray, when to pray, to whom to pray, how many times a day to pray, and they do it! Islam even controls them making them pray five times a day! Plus many other special prayers! Gudgreeeeef! How can they not see they are being controlled?

I was really hoping this thread was dead considering it was me taking out my annoyance with more far right religious groups so if I’m gonna stop ya right there

 

[SwagStarIV]

I think religion itself actually needs to reconsider the definition of organized all together, as far as it pertains to theirselves. So many denominations, so called, believing the same thing. So many different manners of doing the same thing. For it all to go back to one thing in this grand cycle of inevitability, kinda makes the insisting of any particular way, over someone else's way, seem counter productive, when you could just as easily come to terms and co-produce, in each holy way, a universal means to worship, praise, and give thanks to the mighty power that is. Why not get together in their righteous decorum and build a spiritual practice that is uplifting and informative to all, of all, about all. If anything do that first, then break down each angle and have that be your religious branches, i.e. wiccan, Christian, Muslim, pagan, Taoist, so that individuals could choose their path affirmatively. Breaks the secretive influence and suspicion clouding the minds of the people, and clears conflict by showing forth an open effort to cohere to others spiritual choices as well as sets the boundaries of what is quite clearly. The choice to war and build barriers, definitely doesn't spurn the profound sense of togetherness that most of them proclaim to stand for, but it's humanity right. Who's to say they wouldn't do that anyway?

 

[Willow A113]

I don't think religion is a bad thing at all. I also don't think people of the same faith meeting up (what I assume "organized" is supposed to mean) is bad. The only religion-related thing that's bad is mixing up religion and politics or using religion as an excuse to promote hate. And those things are barely religion-related, to begin with.
I also don't think religion should be taught to kids. Kids tend to believe what adults - especially their parents tell them to believe. There are many people who would believe Santa is real if their parents haven't told them when they were old enough. If a person is taught religion by their parents since they were a baby, and weren't given any info countering those set of beliefs, it will change the way they see the world and they will be much more likely to stay with that belief system for the rest of their lives, not questioning it. You can see that with other things too. Do you know why so many old people are homophobic? It's because they were taught from a very young age it was "wrong" and by the time other ideas started to spread, the homophobic ideas were drilled too far into their heads for them to listen. I think the same (although not as bad) thing can happen if you teach someone a religion from birth. It's for that reason that I believe a person should be mature enough to be free-thinking and come to their own conclusions before being taught religion.
Saying all that, I don't hate people who do this with their kids (if a parent continues to force a child to read the bible even while the child insists they don't want to, I take issue with that). Parents should be able to believe what they want and raise their children how they want, as long as it's not abusive. Also, I said before that people raised with a certain religion tend to stay in that religion, but that is far from happening 100% of the time. I was raised Christian but eventually, I started questioning the things my parents taught me and now I am agnostic. I also want to clarify that being homophobic is not the same as being Christian (one is much worse than the other), and it is possible to be one, both, or neither (preferably not homophobic).
Sorry for the tangent, that was just something I thought of when seeing this thread. I hope no one was offended by what I said here. I meant nothing bad toward anyone in this post. It is only what I personally think and it is perfectly fine to disagree.
In conclusion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being religious, or taking part in a religious organization as long as religion is not used as a vehicle for hate and that religion and politics stay separate. I don't recommend teaching small kids (especially under 8) religion, but I can't stop you from doing that if that's how you want to raise your kids.

 

[BufferAqua]

The people who opposed Roe v Wade don't represent all Christians.

The people who opposed gay marriage don't represent all Christians.

The alt-right bigoted groups don't represent all Christians.

Everyone has different beliefs and unfortunately can use their personal beliefs, especially religious ones, to commit malicious acts. It is not accurate nor fair to lump everyone together like that. It's one thing to say that organized religion can be a problem or that religion can deeply affect politics, which is fair. It's another to also insult people's beliefs (i.e. "caused massive problems because whatever magic being in the clouds they believe in told them to") and imply that they are all the same.

Signed, a person who is not even remotely religious at all.

 

[SwagStarIV]

I can't help the fact but agree though. In today's society, organized religion is a slight problem. You see how much power the Jews have. Can't be too mad, that's the merit they've gained over hard work and years of paying attention, but still it's a threat that we have to face as people and ask, is it right? Oh, you said something wrong about Jews, your wealth drops from being 6 billion to 4 million. That's power. Then again, who else Bette rto hold that power than a man of cloth? Maybe we should just do better at organizing men of such caliber

 

[BufferAqua]

You see how much power the Jews have.

Oh, you said something wrong about Jews, your wealth drops from being 6 billion to 4 million.

What the actual fuck?

 

[Sonofjafar]

I can't help the fact but agree though. In today's society, organized religion is a slight problem. You see how much power the Jews have. Can't be too mad, that's the merit they've gained over hard work and years of paying attention, but still it's a threat that we have to face as people and ask, is it right? Oh, you said something wrong about Jews, your wealth drops from being 6 billion to 4 million. That's power. Then again, who else Bette rto hold that power than a man of cloth? Maybe we should just do better at organizing men of such caliber

not where i was going with that AT ALL

 

[Chie]

"the jews run the world" guy vs. "whites are the most oppressed race" guy FIGHT!!!!!!!!

 

[Sonofjafar]

"the jews run the world" guy vs. "whites are the most oppressed race" guy FIGHT!!!!!!!!

i never said they werte the MOST oppressed. Also, you are not helping