something i noticed in deep dive

[dark_riku05]

Think of it like this: If you cut your arm off, is the arm going to look any different? Obviously over time the arm will rot, decay and become nothing but bone. But initially it looks exactly the same as when it was attached to your shoulder.

That rather disturbing example aside, I'm really just using the first game (KH and Final Mix, that is) to base my thoughts around. Do you remember the night of the Heartless attack on the Destiny Islands? In the Secret Place Sora runs into Kairi. In reality, this wasn't "Kairi," but Kairi's heart, yet it looked exactly the same as her body. Riku's heart appeared twice: Once after you beat Riku II (his heart projected his image), and once in a special scene found in Final Mix, where Riku's heart is in the Realm of Darkness. In both cases, it looks exactly like his body.

That's not to say the heart has a physical presence, because that can't be proven as of yet, but it still projects the image of the body. I'd assume the soul would do the same if it were removed -- you might just consider it a ghost then, though.

To complete the thought, a body without a heart or soul is a shell. Like if you've played CoM, when Riku finally encounters people on Destiny Island, they can't do anything because they are shells; they are just memories of Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie. And dark memories at that, 'cause only the darksides of people are found with Riku. You're right, though. This IS very confusing...

 

[zappopunk182]

but thats there whole heart your seeing.... only seeing half would change what he looked like

 

[DarrcEnigma]

To complete the thought, a body without a heart or soul is a shell. Like if you've played CoM, when Riku finally encounters people on Destiny Island, they can't do anything because they are shells; they are just memories of Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie. And dark memories at that, 'cause only the darksides of people are found with Riku. You're right, though. This IS very confusing...

No, not quite -- a Shell is, without a doubt, the body of the person. The soul also stays with the body, and at this point in time it is unclear whether it can actually be separated from the body or not. Since it's not known, the best way to go is to assume that it can't be. As far as Chain of Memories go, none of the Memory Characters are shells. They're not real, only illusions. Hence, they can't be Shells.

but thats there whole heart your seeing.... only seeing half would change what he looked like

A person consists of three parts: The heart, the body, and the soul. Those parts can be separated in a number of ways. However, the is no evidence whatsoever that a part can be further split apart. Meaning, of course, that the heart can't be split in two and exist in two different places at once. Whether that will change in the future or not, I'm uncertain -- I would not expect that to change, however.

 

[zappopunk182]

but...sora has a heart a body and a soul....
so it must be half of each..

 

[zappopunk182]

since if it wasn t it would be a third of sora not a half

 

[zappopunk182]

um its not soul heart and body
its memory heart and body
heart and soul are basically the same thing....

 

[DarrcEnigma]

since if it wasn t it would be a third of sora not a half

Half, part, it doesn't really matter in the end. The point is, you can potentially split a person into three parts, but you can't split those parts into smaller parts. Hence, either BHK is one of Sora's three parts, or not a part of Sora at all. That's not going into the "other you" stuff, of course. But even then, the idea would remain largely unchanged.

 

[zappopunk182]

who said you could divide someone in threes? i never remember anyone saying that?

 

[dark_riku05]

Maybe there are THREE Sora-esque charactors and Sora isn't really Sora at all? He could be the memory, heart, or the body. I think it would be the memory 'cause he has odd dreams...

 

[zappopunk182]

well maybe....

 

[DarrcEnigma]

um its not soul heart and body
its memory heart and body
heart and soul are basically the same thing....

No, it's not -- the memory is linked to the heart, as stated in Chain of Memories. The soul and body are the other two parts, there can be no denying that. According to Ansem, the heart and "flesh" are separate, and during separation the soul remains within the body. If need be, look at Ansem Report pages 11 through 13, it states this in there.

And as I said before, there's no proof right now that the soul can be separated from the body. I was merely implying that if it could, there could then be three incomplete versions of a person in existence at once.

 

[dark_riku05]

Oh, so Sora couldn't be the memory, unless he's the body, but then he'd be the soul...that scraps my idea...

 

[zappopunk182]

no..in C.o.m it said th heart isn t memory because the heart only knows part of memory....it can be easy forgotten by the heart.....hence could the red heart remember the black heart?

 

[dark_riku05]

no..in C.o.m it said th heart isn t memory because the heart only knows part of memory....it can be easy forgotten by the heart.....hence could the red heart remember the black heart?

I guess it would depend on if the heart could be seperated (in the first place) and how valuable the black heart was. Like if a favorite memory or fact was in the black heart, most likely, the red heart would remember it.

 

[zappopunk182]

hahaha sorry dark riku its just something me and darrc enigma would kinda understand

 

[zappopunk182]

but your not talking about a arm here... your talking about half of someones soul...or heart....hearts can be black...or red ....or black-ish red......but what if you take away the black from that red..? then its just red..... and would the red half remember the black....? not if the black half reminded him....hehehe silly weird and complicated i know(wink wink)


here

 

[DarrcEnigma]

no..in C.o.m it said th heart isn t memory because the heart only knows part of memory....it can be easy forgotten by the heart.....hence could the red heart remember the black heart?

Never said the heart was memory, I said the heart is linked to your memory. Hence all that stuff Naminé said about the broken links of your "chain of memories" falling into the darkness of your heart where you can't remember them. It was stated a lot towards the end of Sora's side.

 

[dark_riku05]

hahaha sorry dark riku its just something me and darrc enigma would kinda understand

HA! I've beaten both games, everything (or everything I can get on the America) in Kingdom Hearts and Reverse/Rebirth Mode In CoM. I think not.

 

[dark_riku05]

but your not talking about a arm here... your talking about half of someones soul...or heart....hearts can be black...or red ....or black-ish red......but what if you take away the black from that red..? then its just red..... and would the red half remember the black....? not if the black half reminded him....hehehe silly weird and complicated i know(wink wink)


here

I know what you are talking about, Ive read the whole thread. I won't talk on anything unless Ive read it.

 

[zappopunk182]

um...don t have c.o.m. so wouldn t know.....um anyone lend it to me ?