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The Keyblade Graveyard Makes no Sense



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Okay, so I noticed something with the Keyblade Graveyard segment of the game that didn't make much sense to me and it was particularly annoying and weird to say the least. Nomura stated in the Ultimania that Sora's abuse of the Power of Waking caused the defeat of the 7 Guardians of Light to have never happened. Basically time was reversed. Now that's all fine and dandy but it makes no damn sense. When Sora and Kairi arrive back into the graveyard after Sora saves everyone's fading hearts, the first thing Sora says is, "It DID work!" Then Goofy even says, "Now point us back at those guys." So for them to say those things would mean all the Guardians are aware they just got wrecked and should be dead but they have a 2nd shot. Now here's where things make absolutely no damn sense. They go into the graveyard again and encounter Terra. Someone please explain WHY THE HELL Ventus runs up and says the same exact line he said to Terra before Aqua realizes it's Xehanort. It makes zero sense. Xehanort also says his same lines word for word and Sora rebuttals with the same line he used which was, "We're not gonna lose to you." Why would they repeat things like that if they just acknowledged they had just been brought back? Why would Ventus run up like a dumb ass to Terra when they supposedly didn't forget anything that just happened. I was watching those scenes the other day and I was thinking this is really stupid and sloppy. I believe they just made an error or something. Does anybody understand where I'm coming from?
 
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Yeah, while that scene initially hyped me, taking another look at it made me realize that it was just a complete mess from a character and writing perspective.
  • I also don't understand why the Xehanorts found the guardians' light too bright? Too bright? The backup plan was 7 hearts of literal pure light, just fight them or extract their hearts. Why does their light suddenly need to dim?

  • Then Xigbar shows up after the heartless tornado claiming they need to do another mark of mastery exam to ensure "they brought the goods." Again, why? They don't need to be keyblade masters. You only need them to clash.

  • Some characters just seemed to love giving up. Aqua, Sora, and Donald. Sora I at least understood, but after everything they've been through and having literally just come back to life, Donald is willing to cower and give up in front of heartless? They've taken down millions at that point, including a massive army of similar size just a little while ago.
I loved this segment of the game for the battles and some of the story beats, but the overall narrative for many moments was such a mess and it seems Nomura just threw together some dialogue because he couldn't come up with anything that made sense for so many battles. He needs a team of dedicated writers for the next saga.
 
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Twilight Lumiair

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Lol, this is NOT a new topic my friend. The Terranort scene (both of them) is infamous for a reason. To list off some other issues I've said in the past:
  • Why didn't the "Lights from the past" appear in both versions of that scene? The GoL had literally nothing to do with it appearing, so it only showed up the second time (seemingly inside the Shadnado) because???
  • Why did Ventus run up to Terranort in the first place and not automatically suspect Terra was compromised, when he was already told by Riku (in the scene where they all gathered at the Mysterious Tower) that Terra was with the Organization and needed to be "saved" from Xehanort (who Mickey had long since established was possessing him)? Makes zero sense. Can't believe Aqua never personally mentioned that to him either, considering she fought the guy.
  • In addition to the lines listed in the OP (that confirm the GoL were all well aware of the time rewrite), we also get Lea and Xigbar having banter about it shortly after the "Lights from the Past" disappear. According to Lea, them getting wrecked was just "losing with style", or whatever.
  • Aqua, Riku, and Mickey are utterly useless when Terranort attacks, despite being the only Masters in the group (worst part, IMO).
  • Then there's this, which @darknessofheart so kindly said already:
I also don't understand why the Xehanorts found the guardians' light too bright? Too bright? The backup plan was 7 hearts of literal pure light, just fight them or extract their hearts. Why does their light suddenly need to dim?
I could go on, but suffice to say when you're playing through that segment, it's important to either accept the nonsense for what it is, or turn off your brain and pretend like it all makes sense.

It's like Nomura forgot to remove a few lines when editing the script.
Wouldn't surprise me. Though I'd say it's a bit more than a few, lol.
*Edited for Grammatical Errors* -- that were getting on my nerves.
 
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AR829038

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Yeah, that segment was easily the most confounding moment in the entire series for me. I spent literal months trying to wrack my brain around it, trying to come up with a trajectory of events that could make all the dialogue and stuff make sense, but I still can't decipher what exactly happened. And Nomura's explanation of how time was basically rewritten because of a "singularity" (I am positive he does not know what that word even means) caused by the "impact" of everyone's hearts being brought back when Sora used the power of waking on them—that explanation only makes everything more confusing, and I honestly would have preferred just normal KH time travel at that point.
As for Sora, Goofy, Xigbar, and Lea all referencing their earlier defeat, I wonder if those lines might just be unfortunate translation errors. Someone who knows the Japanese dialogue can correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine whatever they said in the original language was something that the English localizers didn't know how to translate properly without delivering something incomprehensible for English speakers, so they went with the closest approximations of the original lines, which all turned out to imply something that was never intended to be implied. That's just my guess anyway, and if I'm wrong, then yeah, it's just atrociously bad writing.
The part about Terra-Xehanort telling them he's gonna kill them all—I'm not certain, but I THINK the bit about their lights shining too brightly may have just been a throwaway line about them needing to all be killed in order for the X-Blade to be forged. Like Xemnas said—"We only need their hearts, we don't need their souls." Since their intent was to duke it out to the last side standing anyway, I'm guessing Terra's line then was just to indicate how he was going to kill them since literally everything but their hearts were inconsequential to Master Xehanort's goal.
As for that "second Mark of Mastery" scene—again, my GUESS is that the Norts wanted to weaken the Guardians with a swarm of Heartless to better ensure their victory when it came time for the battle. They probably never intended to actually kill them with the Heartless, just soften them up. They didn't count on Yen Sid Mosesing himself in there and taking care of it for them.
These are just my theories about what happened because they're the only excuses I can come up with that make any sense, and above all, I just need that segment to make sense.
In any case, it was horribly handled.
 

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I don’t need to be confused anymore...please.


Despite everything, my brain can’t process or function properly when I think about Xehanort going through hell to get the seven guardians of light and when Xehanort & the norts...and the little gremlin boy, Vanitas arrived to Graveyard to confront them. All of sudden, “there’s too much light”. It made me wonder how was Xehanort going to use the princesses for his plan when they’re lights are strong too. It made me wonder why Xehanort sent the members to look for the new princesses if he knew their lights were going to be strong for his plan? It doesn’t make sense to me

Sometimes it’s better not to question stuff and let it be.


Actually, why didn’t Sora stop Ven from running up to Terra-Xehanort if he knew.....
 
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AR829038

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Lol, this is NOT a new topic my friend. The Terranort scene (both of them) is infamous for a reason. To list off some other issues I've said in the past:
  • Why didn't the "Lights form the past" appear in both versions of that scene? The GoL had literally nothing to do with it appearing, so it only showed up (seemingly inside the Shadnado) because???
  • Why did Ventus run up to Terranort in the first place and not automatically suspect Terra was compromised, when he was already told by Riku (in the scene where they all gathered at the Mysterious Tower) that Terra was with the Organization and needed to be "saved" from Xehanort (who Mickey had long since established was possessing him)? Makes zero sense. Can't believe Aqua never personally mentioned that to him either, considering she fought the guy.
  • In addition to lines listed in the OP (that comfirm the GoL were well aware of the time rewrite), we also get Lea and Xigbar having banter about it shortly after the "Light's of the Past" disappear. According to Lea, them getting wrecked was just "losing with style", or whatever.
  • Aqua, Riku, and Mickey are useless when Terranort attacks, despite being the only Masters in the group (worst part, IMO).
  • Then there's this, which @darknessofheart so kindly said already:


I could go on, but suffice to say when you're playing through that segment, it's important to either accept the nonsense for what it is, or turn off your brain and pretend like it all makes sense.


Wouldn't surprise me. Though I'd say it's a bit more than a few, lol.
About the Lights from the past: I think perhaps they were only summoned when Sora mustered the courage to face the Demon Tide head-on regardless of his fears. That kind of bravery probably roused the dormant light of the fallen Keyblade wielders' hearts. Or, perhaps their light could sense Sora's time travel shenanigans and responded to his ability to break fate. Either way, I do think there are explanations you could come up with.
As for Ventus, I have a little theory: I believe that, despite being told Terra was possessed, when he saw him dazed-looking with his old brown hair at the Keyblade Graveyard, he probably assumed (naïvely, of course) that Terra had somehow broken free of Xehanort's control and was returned to his old self again. After all, you have to remember, Ventus, since his heart is made of nearly pure light since the expulsion of Vanitas, would naturally approach a lot of situations with unusual innocence, and it's not improbable that he is just so hopeful and so trusting a person that he would make those kind of assumptions instead of thinking things through.
 

SweetYetSalty

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That scene is one of the worst in the series for me. It just showed why the Guardians of Light were incompetent. Three Keyblade Masters just standing around while one of the bad guys wrecks everyone. Props to Sora and Lea for at least trying to stop Terranort. They both failed but at least they didn't just stand their like amateurs who have never been to a battle before. No, that wasn't a jab at Kairi, that was a jab at Riku, Aqua, and Mickey. And to make it even more laughable, Mickey then expects that threesome to be able to take on old man Xehanort himself. Also why wasn't Lingering Will anywhere near them the first time? He lives at the Keyblade Graveyard. I'm surprised he didn't sense Aqua, Ven, Xehanort, and his former body all in the same place in his home turf. And to make matters worse they go back in time and repeat the same mistake with Terra again.

The only good thing about that scene was Donald and Goofy proving how useful they are.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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About the Lights from the past: I think perhaps they were only summoned when Sora mustered the courage to face the Demon Tide head-on regardless of his fears. That kind of bravery probably roused the dormant light of the fallen Keyblade wielders' hearts. Or, perhaps their light could sense Sora's time travel shenanigans and responded to his ability to break fate. Either way, I do think there are explanations you could come up with.
Yeah, I mean there are definitely potential reasons for why they were suddenly prompted to arise from their deaths and intervene; my issue was just more with the fact that they don't explain, hint, or allude to any answers at all. So it could've literally been anything, and that makes the event unnecessarily vague and out-of-left-field (IMO).

As for Ventus, I have a little theory: I believe that, despite being told Terra was possessed, when he saw him dazed-looking with his old brown hair at the Keyblade Graveyard, he probably assumed (naïvely, of course) that Terra had somehow broken free of Xehanort's control and was returned to his old self again. After all, you have to remember, Ventus, since his heart is made of nearly pure light since the expulsion of Vanitas, would naturally approach a lot of situations with unusual innocence, and it's not improbable that he is just so hopeful and so trusting a person that he would make those kind of assumptions instead of thinking things through
Could be. But that's a dangerous level of naivety if it's the case. I can't remember off the top of my head, but did Ven ever do anything that reckless in BBS? I guess antagonizing Eraqus could count... maybe?

Also why wasn't Lingering Will anywhere near them the first time? He lives at the Keyblade Graveyard. I'm surprised he didn't sense Aqua, Ven, Xehanort, and his former body all in the same place in his home turf.
Lmao, so true! I didn't even think about that till you pointed it out.
 

SweetYetSalty

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The only good thing in the first Keyblade Graveyard encounter was Donald unleashing Zettaflare. Which was such a Wham moment I actually changed my username for the first time since I joined.
Wow, that was some scene for you then. What was your username before Zettaflare?
 
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Okay so we all slick have similar opinions on the matter. I'm not even active in the forums anymore but I had to see if anybody could clear some things up. Which none of us seem to be able to do lol. Damn Nomura you better tighten up.
 

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Their light being "Too Bright" doesn't seem like an issue to me. Just sounds like code for 'I need to wear you down'. The Princesses are pure light, but not seasoned for combat and demonstrably defenceless.
Obviously not the biggest issue with that segment, but I just never found it weird.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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Their light being "Too Bright" doesn't seem like an issue to me. Just sounds like code for 'I need to wear you down'. The Princesses are pure light, but not seasoned for combat and demonstrably defenceless.
Obviously not the biggest issue with that segment, but I just never found it weird.
Why would Xehanort care about wearing them down though? It doesn't matter who wins each individual clash. All that's required is that they clash, and the X-blade will be forged either way. We saw this in the game. Clearly "weakening" the GoL didn't stop them from (eventually) cleaning house.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Why would Xehanort care about wearing them down though? It doesn't matter who wins each individual clash. All that's required is that they clash, and the X-blade will be forced either way. We saw this in the game. Clearly "weakening" the GoL didn't stop them from (eventually) cleaning house.
Didn't BBS state for the X-Blade to be forged, the darknesses and lights need to be at equal power?
 

AR829038

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Didn't BBS state for the X-Blade to be forged, the darknesses and lights need to be at equal power?
Yeah, that's kinda one of the things that just got tossed out the window. Xehanort says in DDD that that turned out to be the "wrong" way to forge the X-Blade correctly. Obviously, Nomura just retconned it to have an excuse for a 7 vs 13 showdown to make the final game feel more epic.
 

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The only reason why I think it’s weird because you need strong lights (and strong darkness) in order to clash. It was stated in the game and Nomura said it himself. Wearing down their strong lights would be....antithetical to what we’ve learned in Ven’s journey. He started off as “weak”. He needed to become stronger just for his light to be equal to Vanitas’ darkness in order to clash.

It’s not only that because when it happened in the second wordline (?) Xehanort never brought up about their lights “shining” too brightly ever again. They fought and clashed right there.

Gosh darn @FudgemintGuardian beat it to me
 

Ryuman

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Why would Xehanort care about wearing them down though? It doesn't matter who wins each individual clash. All that's required is that they clash, and the X-blade will be forged either way. We saw this in the game. Clearly "weakening" the GoL didn't stop them from (eventually) cleaning house.
Sure, but why actively allow to Guardians to on undeterred so they can stop him in the end? It may not have technically mattered who died in each clash, but it's definitely in his favour to keep his pieces. Even though they do end up stopping him anyway, I think that only emphasises the importance of him taking those measures.
 
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Yeah, that's kinda one of the things that just got tossed out the window. Xehanort says in DDD that that turned out to be the "wrong" way to forge the X-Blade correctly. Obviously, Nomura just retconned it to have an excuse for a 7 vs 13 showdown to make the final game feel more epic.
Yep sounds about right. He'll do anything for plot *migos voice*
 
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