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Which Xehanort will be in KH3



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If you read my Xehanort Plot Problem thread (damn administrators changed the name #Anarchy) then you knew I was going to give my two cents about this. As much as I hate the time travelling, I can get past it and think of all the other Xehanorts that COULDN'T FRICin exi... I mean... will be part of the New Organization XIII/The XIII Hearts of Darkness. We already know 6 of the members as well as there actually isn't a 13th member yet because Sora was going to be the 13th. The six we already know are Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort, "Ansem", Xemnas, Braig, and Isa. Now time for speculations:

7. A Xehanort from a time inbetween YX's time and MX's time- This one will be older than YX, but younger than MX. This one might also be a master, but just a younger version. Possibly during his Mark of Mastery Exam time period. For all we know YX could already be a master and we just don't know it.
8. A Xehanort from a time before YX's time- This one will be the youngest of the original Xehanort incarnations. Possibly during his Mark of Mastery Exam time period (not sure how young he was when he took the exam) or maybe even before that when he first discovered he could summon the Keyblade.
9. Terranort- This Xehanort is the fused version of himself with Terra. Also, this Xehanort is the one right before he locked up his memories. This means that this one is a bit of a dark horse candidate because it is in the short time between the fusion and the locking of his memories.
10. Xehanort, Ansem's Apprentice- This is basically Terranort after he begins recovering from his amnesia. Not much else to explain.
11. Dark Riku- The Riku that was possessed by "Ansem". This might be kinda cool. Riku vs Riku.
12. Vanitas- Super Dark Horse Candidate. Ventus' Dark Counterpart. Not much else to explain.
13. It was first gonna be Riku, then it was gonna be Sora because Riku developed an immunity to Darkness. Sora got saved so that left Number 13 open. Aqua??? Maybe, doubt it. The original Terra??? Maybe, still doubt it. I don't know. Luxord, Demyx, Marluxia, or Larxene??? We could find out who one of their true selves are, but I again doubt it. Sora's Heartless??? So many choices and all of them probably aren't Number 13.

Some of these are dark horses and won't be in the game except maybe the first two, but who knows. I mean; time travel is apparently possible so any thing and everything must be possible in the KH Universe. Interestingly, the KH Universe's actual name is The World.
Give me your thoughts of my list and who you think might be the other six are as well as who Number 13 will be.
 

billyzanesucks

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Okay, this is what keeps confusing me: if there were twelve Seekers of Darkness before MX arrived and they're still searching for a thirteenth, how can MX himself be one of them?

By the way, Nomura said that Vanitas wasn't there in physical form, reinforcing the idea that Young Xehanort is carrying his heart. I believe MX intends to find Ven's body and implant Vanitas's heart.
 

D.D.D

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

By the way, Nomura said that Vanitas wasn't there in physical form, reinforcing the idea that Young Xehanort is carrying his heart. I believe MX intends to find Ven's body and implant Vanitas's heart.
I have a strange feeling in my gut that Vanitas will eventually end up with Sora in some way. Like, possessing his body or Sora sheltering Vanitas' heart. IDK why, it just seems like it'll happen to me.

To the OP:
#7: Possibly the Xehanort you're looking for in this point is the one we see in BBS, with his face to the ocean and back to the viewer, wearing that black, short sleeved shirt and baggy pants.
#8: Lol, it'd be cute to see Xehanort as a child. Sora wouldn't even have to fight him. He could just spank the kid and send him home, crying his little eyes out. In all seriousness, though, I don't feel that we'll see Xehanort any younger than the one in 3D. Also, even if this youngest incarnation of Xehanort that you speak of appears, I think we'd have too many younger Xehys on our hands and it'd feel like overkill.
#9: I totally agree with Terranort. I have a strong feeling he's going to be in the New Org.
#10: Sounds legit. I wouldn't mind seeing brown-eyed apprentice Xehanort.
#11: Dark Riku? Hmm.. that's sounds like an interesting addition, but I don't think he'd be in the New Org. I mean, if Young Xehanort traveled through time to get Dark Riku, wouldn't present Riku (since he would have time traveled with YX back in KH1) know what was going to happen in DDD? And for that matter, he'd know what was going to happen in KH3. I just don't see it unless Nomura pulls a giant plot hole move.
#12: Totally agree with Vanitas being there.
#13: I have no idea who the thirteenth will be. Maybe it'll still be Sora and we just can't see it right now. A lot of other people seem to think that it would be a great plot idea to not make Sora one of the seven lights. If that proves true, then he could possibly still be the thirteenth darkness.

Here's my theoretical list of the thirteen darknesses and seven lights:
DARKNESSES:
1-6. The already confirmed ones.
7. Terranort
8. Vanitas
9. Apprenticenort
10. BBS Young Xehanort
11-13. I have absolutely no idea.
LIGHTS:
1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Terra
4. Aqua
5. Ventus
6. Roxas
7. King Mickey
The other two people who could take Roxas and King Mickey's spots are Lea and Kairi, and even possibly Xion (if she is revived).
Lea I don't think will be a Light because I have a feeling that it'd be too important of a role for him. He always seems to be a character that supports the others, either if it's eating ice cream with Xion and Roxas, or learning to wield a Keyblade in order to help Sora and the gang.
Kairi doesn't feel like she'd be a light to me because she's already what the seven lights are supposed to protect: a princess of heart. Plus she's a little less experienced than the Lights I listed.
Xion I see having about a 5% chance of being a Light. No one's sure if she'll even be brought back to life or not, and even if she is, I still can't see her being anything more than a character support role like Lea.
As for your opening statement, the title of your thread was changed because the fact that Xehanort time traveled is a major spoiler. There are many on the forum who are waiting for the English release of the game, and thus, since those outside of the Spoilers section can still see thread titles from within it, they were spoiled in that aspect just by reading the headline.
 

Seighart

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Just hoping Sora becomes the Cecil type, being able to shift between using Darkness and Light....
 

Marx15

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

8. A Xehanort from a time before YX's time- This one will be the youngest of the original Xehanort incarnations. Possibly during his Mark of Mastery Exam time period (not sure how young he was when he took the exam) or maybe even before that when he first discovered he could summon the Keyblade.

There is no incarnation younger than YX. It's said in the game itself, that YX is the youngest and the first of the Xehanort incarnations.
YX is also before his MoM exam. YX doesn't have a keyblade, that's why he uses the blue ethereal blades in BBS.
 

billyzanesucks

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Yeah, #8 is impossible. You can only travel one direction in time.
 

Memory Master

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Isn't BBS Young Xehanort the same as Young Xehanort in KH3D?

Apprenticenort I'm kind of unsure about. There isn't enough we know about him yet that i'm willing to say one way or another if he's among the 13.

Vanitas is likely cause I think Nomura said Vanitas was at meeting just not physically. It seems to hint that he's in Young Xehanort (The scene in La Cite Des Cloches) so it's possible that like Ventus' heart went to Sora, Vanitas' heart may have gone to Young Xehanort when he stopped in the BBS time period to pick up Vanitas' damaged heart.

So maybe one of the cloaked members next to YMX in the throne room is a projection of Vanitas from YMX in an organization coat.

It's also possible one of the members is Riku Replica since the Riku in cloaked Riku in Monstro was hinted by Riku to be Riku Replica.

And I wouldn't rule Even and Dilan out just yet. Remember Aleaus said they were still unstable and so he told them to go rest. Why were they the only two unstable out the members that became whole at Radiant Gardens? Perhaps because they have a MX heart fragment in them? After all we don't see what happens in Radiant Gardens after Lea leaves, so perhaps between his departure to Disney Castle and the gathering of the XIII Darknesses, Even and Dilan awoke and the MX heart fragment they had led them to join with the other members of the seekers of darkness?

Even and Dilan don't seem like the type of have been good guys. Even was loyal to the organization though he did seem to fear Xemnas. But still Even openly enjoyed the sick experiments and research the Organization was performing. Xaldin really should be one of the 13 darknesses because he even admits he didn't want a heart and he hates emotions. Plus the guy was very loyal to Xemnas and the organization, because he obviously thought any traitors should be eliminated and if i'm not mistaken at one point in 358/2 Days he even wonders why the Organization spared Xion's life after the first time she ran away. Xaldin's ears are also somewhat pointed to the point they almost looked deformed for perhaps he was at the early stage of Xehanortification and his ears were slowly turning pointy.

Ienzo, Aleaus, Demyx, and Luxord all seemed to be good people even as nobodies. They honestly seemed like they wanted a heart. Zexion seemed to feel like things in the organization were getting out of hand and even seemed to consider the first six members friends but noted that the organization which binded the group seemed to have lost the closeness it once held. Lexeaus seemed to be thinking about similar things and notes in one of his secret reports in 358/2 Days that Zexion is the only one he can trust now.

Demyx and Luxord were the only two members besides Axel and Xion that seemed to be openly friendly to Roxas and seemed to enjoy missions with him (Despite Demyx disliking missions all together.) Even in KH2 Demyx pleaded for Roxas to come back to the Organization (When he confronted Sora in the underworld) and Luxord after being struck down by Sora said "Roxas, how could you?" which seems to me hints he considered Roxas a friend.

As for Marluxia and Larxene. They didn't like Sora and didn't have enough time with Roxas to develop a like or dislike for him, yet they also didn't like Xemnas. Plus Xemnas said the traitors in the organization weren't suitable to be part of the 13 Seekers of Darkness, so it's pretty much confirmed that Marluxia and Larxene's somebodies aren't members of the 13 seekers of darkness. But I don't see them particurally teaming up with Sora either. I think if Marluxia and Larxene's somebodies appear in KH3 they will form a partnership with Sora since they share a common enemy in Xehanort, but after Xehanort is gone they may revert to trying to antagonize Sora or they may go off and do their own thing together.

So in KH3 i think it will be something like this in regard to Organization members' somebodies:

Sora's Team:

1. Lea
2. Aleaus
3. Ienzo
4. Demyx's somebody
5. Luxord's somebody
6. Roxas (Obviously, he's a part of Sora)
7. Xion (Same case as with Roxas)

Xehanort's Side:

1. Isa
2. Braig
3. Dilan
4. Even

Neither Side but teams up with Sora for now:

1. Marluxia's somebody
2. Larxene's somebody
 

Seighart

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

The YX in BBS didn't look around the same age as the one in KH3D, unless your talking about some scene i didn't see. I assume your talking about the scene where he's looking out into the sea and we see a view of his back. Haven't seen it in a while but i remember his hair being longer.
 

billyzanesucks

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

The YX in BBS didn't look around the same age as the one in KH3D, unless your talking about some scene i didn't see. I assume your talking about the scene where he's looking out into the sea and we see a view of his back. Haven't seen it in a while but i remember his hair being longer.

Still wasn't much different. They may have just changed his model a bit. Either way, I think it would be a waste from a writing standpoint to include two extremely similar Xehanorts in the Organization unless that's the time when YX comes back to gather all the versions of himself again.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Still wasn't much different. They may have just changed his model a bit. Either way, I think it would be a waste from a writing standpoint to include two extremely similar Xehanorts in the Organization unless that's the time when YX comes back to gather all the versions of himself again.

Also, beside this, not counting Ansem and Xemnas, who have very distinct minds and personalities, don't we have enough "pure" Xehanort's already with MX, young MX and Terra-Xehanort?
I know one of the anagrams of Xehanort's name is "Another", but this is slowly getting to ridiculous levels. What are we going go get next? Schoolboy-Nort? Toddler-Nort who time travels using his cradle? Grandpa-Nort with his time-travelling wheelchair?
 

D.D.D

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Also, beside this, not counting Ansem and Xemnas, who have very distinct minds and personalities, don't we have enough "pure" Xehanort's already with MX, young MX and Terra-Xehanort?
I know one of the anagrams of Xehanort's name is "Another", but this is slowly getting to ridiculous levels. What are we going go get next? Schoolboy-Nort? Toddler-Nort who time travels using his cradle? Grandpa-Nort with his time-travelling wheelchair?
...
FetusNort...
...
me-gusta-creepy-me-gusta.png
 

Smithee

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Also, beside this, not counting Ansem and Xemnas, who have very distinct minds and personalities, don't we have enough "pure" Xehanort's already with MX, young MX and Terra-Xehanort?
I know one of the anagrams of Xehanort's name is "Another", but this is slowly getting to ridiculous levels. What are we going go get next? Schoolboy-Nort? Toddler-Nort who time travels using his cradle? Grandpa-Nort with his time-travelling wheelchair?

Grandpa-Nort is MX.

Unless you mean an even older MX whose body has become so decayed that he is on life-support. To compensate for his lack of physical ability, however, he may have the deadliest magic of all the 'Norts, even MX.

Also Terra-Xehanort is not "pure" Xehanort; he is 50% Xehanort, 49% Terra, and 1% Eraqus. We've only seen him in his Xehanort moments, but I'm sure he's had his Terra/Eraqus moments behind the scenes as well.
 

Memory Master

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Grandpa-Nort is MX.

Unless you mean an even older MX whose body has become so decayed that he is on life-support. To compensate for his lack of physical ability, however, he may have the deadliest magic of all the 'Norts, even MX.

Also Terra-Xehanort is not "pure" Xehanort; he is 50% Xehanort, 49% Terra, and 1% Eraqus. We've only seen him in his Xehanort moments, but I'm sure he's had his Terra/Eraqus moments behind the scenes as well.

I don't know if would say he is 50% Xehanort and 49% Terra now. Of course i'm refering to reformed Terra that MX has said is on his side. It's hinted the reformed Terranort is one of the hooded figures that was there at the throne room in the end of KH3D. Since he didn't even seem to react to seeing Mickey and especially his chosen apprentice Riku, I think the fragment of MX's heart that is left inside of him has probably gained more control now.

So it's more like the new Terranort (Neo Terranort) is: 75% Xehanort/24% Terra/1% Eraqus.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Funny you should mention that whole "MX has more control now"-business, because something's been bugging me about that....

In KH3D, MX mentioned how he had originally chosen people such as Riku, Roxas, and the original Organization XIII to become vessels, yet they had become too independent for him. Yet he had absolutely no problems whatsoever in subduing Terra, the one person guaranteed to have more "independence" against MX than anyone else, despite Eraqus protecting him?

Is Nomura retconning Eraqus out of Terra or something? Because I really don't see the point in putting him inside Terra, pointing him out in the secret ending, and then just having him be useless.

Not arguing (not going down that route again). Just merely mind-boggled....


Would you stop this, dude. Nomura didn't retconned Eraqus out of Terra, we are not going through this again
 

Luap

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Funny you should mention that whole "MX has more control now"-business, because something's been bugging me about that....

In KH3D, MX mentioned how certain characters had proven too independent for him to make into vessels. Why would that bother him if he could easily subdue Terra?

In Blank Points, Terra and MX are both pretty confident they could overtake the other. Could of gone either way.
And Terra says, "Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me... you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it."
Terra might have seen some reason to give into MX and become one of the 13 Darknesses.
 

Smithee

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Would you stop this, dude. Nomura didn't retconned Eraqus out of Terra, we are not going through this again

And realizing that "we are not going through this again," I repented and tried to edit that post out of existence before anybody could read it.

Guess I was too late.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

Funny you should mention that whole "MX has more control now"-business, because something's been bugging me about that....

In KH3D, MX mentioned how he had originally chosen people such as Riku, Roxas, and the original Organization XIII to become vessels, yet they had become too independent for him. Yet he had absolutely no problems whatsoever in subduing Terra, the one person guaranteed to have more "independence" against MX than anyone else, despite Eraqus protecting him?

Is Nomura retconning Eraqus out of Terra or something? Because I really don't see the point in putting him inside Terra, pointing him out in the secret ending, and then just having him be useless.

Not arguing (not going down that route again). Just merely mind-boggled....

In response to the original wording of the post:

You have to look at things in order and considering the individual situations of the characters in question.
Riku was used as a vessel for a time (in KH 1 by Ansem), but despite being possessed when Ansem tried to kill Kairi, Donald and Goofy Riku already showed that he was able to resist to a degree, causing Ansem to expel Riku's heart from its own body. Master Xehanort tried that with Terra's heart as well in the Final Episode as well, but failed (most likely due to Eraqus' heart interfering, but that's not proven).
When Sora (or rather, Kingdom Hearts) annihilated Ansem at the end of KH 1 Riku got his body back, but Ansem still lingered inside his heart, trying again to take over in Chain of Memories, but Riku rebuked him again with Help from Mickey and Naminé. Even during DDD itself, the new Org hasn't fully given up on Riku until Young Xehanort realized in Symphony of Sorcery (where Chernabog resides) that Riku completely shut away his darkness.
The darkness doesn't affect Riku that much anymore, so he's unusable for Xehanort's plot.

Roxas is also another case. The people planned to be made into Xehanort vessels in the original Organisation were made to lose their hearts and through Xemnas' and Xigbar's lies should be prevented from forming new hearts of their own so they could be easily overtaken by Xehanorts heart fragments.
Roxas however never fit that prerequisite. While he started out as a completely blank slate (due to Sora keeping his memories) and no heart as all nobodies, Ven's wounded heart resided within him and over the course of Days when Roxas developed his own personality by connecting and interacting with people around him during missions, his friendships with Axel and Xion, his direct connection to Sora and Ven's heart possibly granting him additional emotional capacity, he most likely grew and developed a powerful heart on his own.
In a cutscene in Days Naminé actually takes notice of how hard Roxas is fighting to become his own person and he displays a very independent personality all around. (I am me, nobody else and stuff).
To put it simply, Roxas' new heart and therefore his consciousness (awareness, as Young Xehanort put it) were too much for the Xehanort-fragment so Roxas became unusable as well. Furthermore, Xemnas also mentions those whose minds were too strong, whose thoughts could not be unraveled, this applies to Roxas as well as Axel.
I won't go into any possible additional effects that Ven might have had in this here, as that would become too long.

Now looking at Terra, what exactly has him "guaranteed" more independence from Xehanort? His heart succumbed to Darkness, he couldn't control it and Xehanort took advantage of that, that's why MX could so "effortlessly" take over. Remember KH 1? When Riku finally gave in to his Darkness Ansem also "effortlessly" took over just like MX in BBS, and just like Riku resisted later on Terra managed that too for a while in the Final Episode. Also, Terra's mind was strong enough to animate his armor and bring it to life, and where do you think the forcefield of golden chains came from that trapped Terra-Xehanort in his final fight against the Lingering Will? Who attacks with golden chains? Right, Eraqus.

Also, I doubt that Nomura is retconning anything in this area, since the Ultimania explicitly talks about this issue:
Spoiler Spoiler Show


Nomura just leaves these things open right now because they weren't a focal point of DDD, just as we gained no new information about the Chambers of Waking and Repose, the actual true status of Ven's heart or Saix' and Axel's original plan in the first Organisation. These are all mysteries that simply haven't been addressed yet.

Also, what route going down? To me it's only clear that you don't really see the differences of the situations between Riku, Roxas and Terra in regards to MX.

Funny you should mention that whole "MX has more control now"-business, because something's been bugging me about that....

In KH3D, MX mentioned how certain characters had proven too independent for him to make into vessels. Why would that bother him if he could easily subdue Terra?

Hmm? Because Terra is only one vessel but he needs 13?
We have to keep in mind that the whole time-travel stuff to get different incarnatons of himself instead of making only other people into vessels was a backup-plan because Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas expected a bunch of intended vessels to be failures.
From what we know from BBS MX also intended Terra's body to be his new "main" one, while he normally only controls his other "vessels" via mind control, Terra's was originally planned to be his new main host.
 

Smithee

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

In response to the original wording of the post:

You have to look at things in order and considering the individual situations of the characters in question.
Riku was used as a vessel for a time (in KH 1 by Ansem), but despite being possessed when Ansem tried to kill Kairi, Donald and Goofy Riku already showed that he was able to resist to a degree, causing Ansem to expel Riku's heart from its own body. Master Xehanort tried that with Terra's heart as well in the Final Episode as well, but failed (most likely due to Eraqus' heart interfering, but that's not proven).
When Sora (or rather, Kingdom Hearts) annihilated Ansem at the end of KH 1 Riku got his body back, but Ansem still lingered inside his heart, trying again to take over in Chain of Memories, but Riku rebuked him again with Help from Mickey and Naminé. Even during DDD itself, the new Org hasn't fully given up on Riku until Young Xehanort realized in Symphony of Sorcery (where Chernabog resides) that Riku completely shut away his darkness.
The darkness doesn't affect Riku that much anymore, so he's unusable for Xehanort's plot.

Roxas is also another case. The people planned to be made into Xehanort vessels in the original Organisation were made to lose their hearts and through Xemnas' and Xigbar's lies should be prevented from forming new hearts of their own so they could be easily overtaken by Xehanorts heart fragments.
Roxas however never fit that prerequisite. While he started out as a completely blank slate (due to Sora keeping his memories) and no heart as all nobodies, Ven's wounded heart resided within him and over the course of Days when Roxas developed his own personality by connecting and interacting with people around him during missions, his friendships with Axel and Xion, his direct connection to Sora and Ven's heart possibly granting him additional emotional capacity, he most likely grew and developed a powerful heart on his own.
In a cutscene in Days Naminé actually takes notice of how hard Roxas is fighting to become his own person and he displays a very independent personality all around. (I am me, nobody else and stuff).
To put it simply, Roxas' new heart and therefore his consciousness (awareness, as Young Xehanort put it) were too much for the Xehanort-fragment so Roxas became unusable as well. Furthermore, Xemnas also mentions those whose minds were too strong, whose thoughts could not be unraveled, this applies to Roxas as well as Axel.
I won't go into any possible additional effects that Ven might have had in this here, as that would become too long.

Now looking at Terra, what exactly has him "guaranteed" more independence from Xehanort? His heart succumbed to Darkness, he couldn't control it and Xehanort took advantage of that, that's why MX could so "effortlessly" take over. Remember KH 1? When Riku finally gave in to his Darkness Ansem also "effortlessly" took over just like MX in BBS, and just like Riku resisted later on Terra managed that too for a while in the Final Episode. Also, Terra's mind was strong enough to animate his armor and bring it to life, and where do you think the forcefield of golden chains came from that trapped Terra-Xehanort in his final fight against the Lingering Will? Who attacks with golden chains? Right, Eraqus.

Also, I doubt that Nomura is retconning anything in this area, since the Ultimania explicitly talks about this issue:
Spoiler Spoiler Show


Nomura just leaves these things open right now because they weren't a focal point of DDD, just as we gained no new information about the Chambers of Waking and Repose, the actual true status of Ven's heart or Saix' and Axel's original plan in the first Organisation. These are all mysteries that simply haven't been addressed yet.

Also, what route going down? To me it's only clear that you don't really see the differences of the situations between Riku, Roxas and Terra in regards to MX.



Hmm? Because Terra is only one vessel but he needs 13?
We have to keep in mind that the whole time-travel stuff to get different incarnatons of himself instead of making only other people into vessels was a backup-plan because Xehanort, Xigbar and Xemnas expected a bunch of intended vessels to be failures.
From what we know from BBS MX also intended Terra's body to be his new "main" one, while he normally only controls his other "vessels" via mind control, Terra's was originally planned to be his new main host.

Er.... thank you, I guess?

Alas, that post of mine no longer exists. I wiped it from existence (you know: (EDIT: This post has been erased.)), realizing that I would be unleashing a hornet's nest if people read it. Sadly, I wasn't fast enough, and people saw it anyway.

A change in subject would be nice now....
 

Memory Master

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Re: Which Xehanorts will be in KH3

OMG I just realized something very important!! You guys know how the KH mangas are not considered canon to the video game series, right? Well isn't it obvious what has happened? Young Xehanort went to the alternate reality of KH manga and picked up the XH and Xemnas from the manga and brought them into the video game series thus preventing the video game series' time line from being screwed up! Nomura you sneaky bastard! The Mangas were created for this sole purpose and Nomura has had this planned from the beginning!

.....Or maybe not. XD
 
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