would you like kairi more or less?

[Axie]

I still say that with her ties to Memories, should Unbirths really be related to Memories, that Nami could be one. >:3
Though iono. As much as I'd like the SoNami-ness in Sora wanting to meet Namine too (on the same basis of wanting to meet Roxas), it would just have sent him into more of a worry frenzy about Kairi not because of Kairi. So I'm against it by definition.

Agreed on everything else, though it seems like Ansem would pick up on it if she was an Unbirth, but it's impossible to say right now. I was thinking he'd had exposure to them, but maybe he hasn't, or he'd probably be making comparisons in his reports.

Only thing here is I'm not following--how would he be worried about Kairi? I mean, he already is (about as worried about Kairi as Sora gets), and whether Axel grabbed her for Namine or his own gratification, she's still with Saix. All it'd really do is give Sora another person to track down and the players another reason to curl their toes in anticipation of the magnificent ending, as well as hopefully flesh out the SoNami interaction.

I never said they were saints out to give us good games for free; they're there to get our money and give us good games in return. Iono, it really does seem like there's just a lot of things left to be told but that were thought of, and thus we're getting new games.
For the most part. *cough*Sora not remembering Namine if she really fused into Kairi earlier*cough*

I think they're less concerned with "good" and more concerned with "liked." If Xion turns out to be trash--which is not a possibility I've completely abandoned--then she most likely resulted as an answer to all those wannabe fourteenth members stinking up fanfiction.net. If she isn't trash, she may still be a response (and in that case I will love her desperately and passionately for all time).

The whole thing with Sora not remembering Namine when he's supposed to was fail. The line he said to Riku afterward was so made of fail it hurt. I really hope this gets rectified in KH3 if/when Namine shows up again, and not something cheap like, "Namine?" "Hmmm?" "Thanks." "*giggle* Of course." END.

I'm only saying that because, with Kairi back in the captain's chair, they're probably not going to capitalize on SoNami moments anymore (more than likely they'll go for RokuNami, assuming both are present, but those two weren't together long enough to get interested and don't seem to look at each other like that).

 

[Smile]

Agreed on everything else, though it seems like Ansem would pick up on it if she was an Unbirth, but it's impossible to say right now. I was thinking he'd had exposure to them, but maybe he hasn't, or he'd probably be making comparisons in his reports.

I personally believe that while he possible knew about them, he didn't get to study them. He only began his study on the Heart after Xehanort popped up on his doorstep, and seeing how that was post-BBS, lo and behold, Unbirths were apparently gone and unstudyable.
He might've known there was some sort of monster-like creature causing havok, but I doubt he had the chance to study them, leaving him with "Special Nobody" as the best term to coin seeing how Namine was hardly a Nobody yet was neither a Heart nor a Heartless.

Only thing here is I'm not following--how would he be worried about Kairi? I mean, he already is (about as worried about Kairi as Sora gets), and whether Axel grabbed her for Namine or his own gratification, she's still with Saix. All it'd really do is give Sora another person to track down and the players another reason to curl their toes in anticipation of the magnificent ending, as well as hopefully flesh out the SoNami interaction.

SoNami <3 *types in more of the fic*
*cough*
Well, there'd be immense guilt-tripping involved, seeing how Kairi isn't whole because of Sora. While not his fault either, Sora's not the kind of guy to listen when someone tells him "circumstances made you do it". He'd take it on himself, badly.

I think they're less concerned with "good" and more concerned with "liked." If Xion turns out to be trash--which is not a possibility I've completely abandoned--then she most likely resulted as an answer to all those wannabe fourteenth members stinking up fanfiction.net. If she isn't trash, she may still be a response (and in that case I will love her desperately and passionately for all time).

I'd like to think she's a combination of both (Watanabe-written XIV member, after all <3) as well as a way to yes somehow tie Aqua into the whole mess, seeing how we have Terra choosing Riku for the Keyblade, TLS despite the non-canonness, and of course - Xehanort. Ven has his share of fun with Roxas and Sora and his Keyblade all but being the KK in general design, leaving only Aqua as completely detached.
Say what you want, I believe not only that she's Aqua related, but that they did good and had TAV "reunite" in the Org as Xemnas, Roxas and Xion. Brilliant if that's the case; horrible waste it not, but I'm hopeful.

The whole thing with Sora not remembering Namine when he's supposed to was fail.

As opposed to the rest of KH2? despite it being FM+.

The line he said to Riku afterward was so made of fail it hurt.

I personally really liked it. Especially because it really reflected on his priorities.

Sora: So liek we're gonna die now, rait?
Riku: mmhm.
Sora: I never got laid.
Riku: ... *shudders in light of memories from the Darkness tentacles*
Sora: I never even properly kissed
Riku: -
Sora: that Christmas with you doesn't count.
Riku: orz
Sora: ...and I never really got to be with the girl I apparently love.
Riku: ...you'll see her again.
Sora: you're not just saying this, are you? I really want to get laid see her again.
Riku: damn he's onto me of course not. You'll get laid see her again.
Sora: we shouldn't die now, Riku.
Riku: that'd suck, yes.
Sora: mmhm. now one last thing - Who's Kairi again?
Riku: I hear you there.
Xemnas: ...oh would you shut up and fight me already?! *waves spear*

I really hope this gets rectified in KH3 if/when Namine shows up again, and not something cheap like, "Namine?" "Hmmm?" "Thanks." "*giggle* Of course." END.

You just wrote how Nojima'd write it. Something I pray wouldn't happen. :\

I'm only saying that because, with Kairi back in the captain's chair, they're probably not going to capitalize on SoNami moments anymore (more than likely they'll go for RokuNami, assuming both are present, but those two weren't together long enough to get interested and don't seem to look at each other like that).

Iono, I mean... Sora telling Riku he never got to thank Namine really is one heck of a SoNami moment from hell. They really are probably about to die at the hand of their strongest enemy yet and Sora doesn't care about not seeing home again, not meeting his friends, and least of all Kairi. He cares about the girl he just suddenly remembered that meant that much to him when she did, and he regrets not tying the loose ends he had with her.
Though I agree :\ they'll probably use both RokuNami and SoNami to try and base SoKai, because they fail at basing the couple on its own.
Idiots ~_~

 

[Axie]

I personally believe that while he possible knew about them, he didn't get to study them. He only began his study on the Heart after Xehanort popped up on his doorstep, and seeing how that was post-BBS, lo and behold, Unbirths were apparently gone and unstudyable.
He might've known there was some sort of monster-like creature causing havok, but I doubt he had the chance to study them, leaving him with "Special Nobody" as the best term to coin seeing how Namine was hardly a Nobody yet was neither a Heart nor a Heartless.

Yar.

SoNami <3 *types in more of the fic*
*cough*
Well, there'd be immense guilt-tripping involved, seeing how Kairi isn't whole because of Sora. While not his fault either, Sora's not the kind of guy to listen when someone tells him "circumstances made you do it". He'd take it on himself, badly.

But if he hadn't raped sodomized stabbed himself with Riku's Keyblade (8D), he never would've met Namine!

Dammit, you're right. He'd beat himself up. (Despite the fact that Kairi doesn't change much no matter what condition she's in, whole or otherwise. I prefer her when she's heartless. Pretty, quiet, and marginally useful. Dream combo.)

Though Namine's state of being/nonbeing may still be revealed to Sora in the end.

I'd like to think she's a combination of both (Watanabe-written XIV member, after all <3) as well as a way to yes somehow tie Aqua into the whole mess, seeing how we have Terra choosing Riku for the Keyblade, TLS despite the non-canonness, and of course - Xehanort. Ven has his share of fun with Roxas and Sora and his Keyblade all but being the KK in general design, leaving only Aqua as completely detached.
Say what you want, I believe not only that she's Aqua related, but that they did good and had TAV "reunite" in the Org as Xemnas, Roxas and Xion. Brilliant if that's the case; horrible waste it not, but I'm hopeful.

ILU.

I personally really liked it. Especially because it really reflected on his priorities.

Sora: So liek we're gonna die now, rait?
Riku: mmhm.
Sora: I never got laid.
Riku: ... *shudders in light of memories from the Darkness tentacles*
Sora: I never even properly kissed
Riku: -
Sora: that Christmas with you doesn't count.
Riku: orz
Sora: ...and I never really got to be with the girl I apparently love.
Riku: ...you'll see her again.
Sora: you're not just saying this, are you? I really want to get laid see her again.
Riku: damn he's onto me of course not. You'll get laid see her again.
Sora: we shouldn't die now, Riku.
Riku: that'd suck, yes.
Sora: mmhm. now one last thing - Who's Kairi again?
Riku: I hear you there.
Xemnas: ...oh would you shut up and fight me already?! *waves spear*

THIS SHOULD BE CANON. VERBATIM.

Now that you mention it, that's really fucked up. I mean, for Kairi to be this ridiculously important person that Sora doesn't even seem to click with and who only puts up with him because she's a possessive psycho and not merit so much as a mention here...why. Just WHY. [/rant]

I hadn't really looked at it like that, but it still seems like it's coming out of left field. I guess because Namine disappeared forever ago and he's just now mentioning her--at a time when it should have been Kairi flying to his mind if he was really that attached to her. Nojima hurts my brain.

Speaking of which.

You just wrote how Nojima'd write it. Something I pray wouldn't happen. :\

I got that distinct impression afterwards and now I think I need to take a cold shower. I guess it's the similarity to Riku's little exchange with Kairi on how she blew in from nowhere and stole his Sora inspired him to explore.

Iono, I mean... Sora telling Riku he never got to thank Namine really is one heck of a SoNami moment from hell. They really are probably about to die at the hand of their strongest enemy yet and Sora doesn't care about not seeing home again, not meeting his friends, and least of all Kairi. He cares about the girl he just suddenly remembered that meant that much to him when she did, and he regrets not tying the loose ends he had with her.
Though I agree :\ they'll probably use both RokuNami and SoNami to try and base SoKai, because they fail at basing the couple on its own.
Idiots ~_~

See, that's so subtle to me (I guess because at the time I was focusing more on HE REMEMBERED WTF), but it's a lot more significant than I realized. So maybe there'll be others like that.

I don't get how RokuNami works, but it could. SoKai just plain doesn't work without rewriting Kairi from scratch (or getting dramatic and making her this selfish, possessive bitch who Sora reforms through his utter goodness and yay).

So I find it highly ironic that everything NONCANON (i.e. SoNami, Akuroku, Soriku, RokuKai HAHA NO) matches up.

What's going to be fucking amazing is if, with Nojima gone, Kairi deepens at all.

 

[Smile]

But if he hadn't raped sodomized stabbed himself with Riku's Keyblade (8D), he never would've met Namine!

Seeing how Namine goes more Emo than Riku does more often than not, I think he'd weep harder.

(Despite the fact that Kairi doesn't change much no matter what condition she's in, whole or otherwise. I prefer her when she's heartless. Pretty, quiet, and marginally useful. Dream combo.)

I hear you.

Though Namine's state of being/nonbeing may still be revealed to Sora in the end.

It kind of did, I mean... she disappeared into Kairi right in front of his eyes, after all. Which is another notion that killed me. Sora never really responded to that scene at all. So two blonde good looking strangers disappear into you and your childhood friend in the middle of the fight for the universe and you just listen to the weird guy's words and look sharp?
A pox on Nojima's first born, I say.

ILU.

<3

THIS SHOULD BE CANON. VERBATIM.

I actually looked VERBATIM up <3

Now that you mention it, that's really fucked up. I mean, for Kairi to be this ridiculously important person that Sora doesn't even seem to click with and who only puts up with him because she's a possessive psycho and not merit so much as a mention here...why. Just WHY. [/rant]

Because they suck and Nomura's afraid of boobies, even as flat as Namine's. Kairi's whorish enough to make it laughable.
Or didn't you know I believe the reason Sora went to save her and Riku in KH1 was because he didn't know his entire world went bye bye, as opposed to Kairi and Riku disappearing in front of his eyes?
DI based Riku/Kairi, dammit, not SoKai. That's why the DI Memory World in CoM made so much sense even with Kairi missing; she's Riku's after all, so Sora wouldn't really care. Sora's with Namine after whom he chases.

Nojima hurts my brain.

Nojima hurts humanity.

I got that distinct impression afterwards and now I think I need to take a cold shower. I guess it's the similarity to Riku's little exchange with Kairi on how she blew in from nowhere and stole his Sora inspired him to explore.

That's at least remotely explainable. Kairi rolled her eyes at Riku so I can assume it wasn't really Riku-Kairi friendship. Sora seems to be eating himself from the inside out while those two socialize though, so I think we have a winner as far as what Riku's motive was.

See, that's so subtle to me (I guess because at the time I was focusing more on HE REMEMBERED WTF), but it's a lot more significant than I realized. So maybe there'll be others like that.

You should come to the SoNami FC and see how much I can pull out of my ass deep I can go when analyzing that couple. Me overthinking things? Probably, but fact is that it's all based and supported by the text in question so it's legit.

I don't get how RokuNami works, but it could.

Give them more than 5 minutes of interaction in which despite telling him to drop dead and go back to her Sora-chan he wasn't supposed to exist Namine was still the kindest person ever to Roxas. This is a Sora we're talking about, and Namine. It'd go well given the chance.

SoKai just plain doesn't work without rewriting Kairi from scratch

I've been saying this for years.

(or getting dramatic and making her this selfish, possessive bitch who Sora reforms through his utter goodness and yay).

You have just described what many, myself included, are praying would happen in KH3. We had Darkness, Darkness not being evil, the Dawn of in-between, and Nothingness.
Let Sora play the role of Dusk (Anti-Form <3) and Kairi being the Evil of Light and we have a winner.

So I find it highly ironic that everything NONCANON (i.e. SoNami, Akuroku, Soriku, RokuKai HAHA NO) matches up.

Well, Akuroku and SoRiku are non-canon for obvious reasons, but even with nothing really being canon aside (Nomura's policy in the matter - not canonize anything really) SoNami seems a lot more canon to me. Their relationship isn't only much better built (or, to coin a phrase - built at all), but Sora specifically saw it in a romantic light.
Namine: We were never friends...
Sora: we were never anything... or more.
It's that "more" that ties in with "more than friends" that goes along with his "too special" comment about Namine, two things Kairi never really received (him kneeling before Saix doesn't hold, he was already broken over Riku two minutes before, so he couldn't care less as long as Saix really did give him anything back. Anything just happened to be Kairi).

What's going to be fucking amazing is if, with Nojima gone, Kairi deepens at all.

You never heard my "Watanabe doesn't write Kairi" theory, did you?

 

[Axie]

It kind of did, I mean... she disappeared into Kairi right in front of his eyes, after all. Which is another notion that killed me. Sora never really responded to that scene at all. So two blonde good looking strangers disappear into you and your childhood friend in the middle of the fight for the universe and you just listen to the weird guy's words and look sharp?
A pox on Nojima's first born, I say.

I meant more like her origin in the first place (assuming that WAS her origin and not a bucket of lies, lies, lies, lies, LIES).

Sora DID do some reacting, but to be fair, he'd never seen these two before in his life (except Namine and his memories weren't back yet or the promise comment would've jogged them).

Namine and Roxas: I'm remembering you remembering me remembering you heehee fun!
Sora: (O_O;; Who are these people?!)
Kairi: WE'LL BE TOGETHER ITSUDEMO SORACHANKUN!!!!
Sora: (What?) Yeah, right, sure.
Namine: *poof*
Sora: (WTFPANCAKES.)

He freaked a little, but he didn't get too attached because a) Roxas's name never even came into it so he might've figured it out later but at the time he couldn't have known that this was the same Nobody Riku talked about, b) Namine's name probably rang a bell, but again he couldn't connect her to Kairi in any way and had never seen her up until this moment, and c) Sora's been through a damned lot. He seems to take a lot of things in stride nowadays; did you see the way he reacted when the train in Twilight Town was suddenly going through space without so much as a warning? He didn't.

Or didn't you know I believe the reason Sora went to save her and Riku in KH1 was because he didn't know his entire world went bye bye, as opposed to Kairi and Riku disappearing in front of his eyes?
DI based Riku/Kairi, dammit, not SoKai. That's why the DI Memory World in CoM made so much sense even with Kairi missing; she's Riku's after all, so Sora wouldn't really care. Sora's with Namine after whom he chases.

Yup I do, I read your essay on it--but that doesn't change how weirdly desperate they get over each other at times. For example, Sora clinging to her and making that promise out of nowhere, him totally freaking out and reaching for her during that Kairi flashback to the old gramma lady in Traverse Town, the scene in Halloween Town where he randomly dances with her (wtf was that?), the scene where he finally sees her and looks like he's bursting with joy and gets distracted enough for the Heartless to dogpile him, the stupid carvings and parallel discoveries of Kairi and Sora respectively (another thing that bothered me--if they were going to have him find her response to his paopu drawing and complete the circle, shouldn't they have shown the two of them TOGETHER afterwards, if not her showing him or him discovering it while she's WITH him?), plus the end of KH2 and him running straight to her the moment he finds his legs. It's all very forced, and seems to bounce back and forth between "I kind of feel like I should save you" and "I REALLY like you."

Nojima hurts humanity.

Agreed.

You should come to the SoNami FC and see how much I can pull out of my ass deep I can go when analyzing that couple. Me overthinking things? Probably, but fact is that it's all based and supported by the text in question so it's legit.

XD I should. But as much as I love those two, I got an even huger thing for Soriku.

Give them more than 5 minutes of interaction in which despite telling him to drop dead and go back to her Sora-chan he wasn't supposed to exist Namine was still the kindest person ever to Roxas. This is a Sora we're talking about, and Namine. It'd go well given the chance.

Agreed. I'm just not sure if I see it happening romantically. They struck me more like siblings somehow.

You have just described what many, myself included, are praying would happen in KH3. We had Darkness, Darkness not being evil, the Dawn of in-between, and Nothingness.
Let Sora play the role of Dusk (Anti-Form <3) and Kairi being the Evil of Light and we have a winner.

XD The Riku of Light. I remember that thread. Unfortunately, I don't expect that to happen, because I don't think they'll let her be evil or misled, being a PoH. It's too deep and too good of an idea, and a little too far off the beaten path for them to do anything with it. (The princess is saved, and when she gets done getting saved, she gets kidnapped so she can be saved again.)

Well, Akuroku and SoRiku are non-canon for obvious reasons, but even with nothing really being canon aside (Nomura's policy in the matter - not canonize anything really) SoNami seems a lot more canon to me. Their relationship isn't only much better built (or, to coin a phrase - built at all), but Sora specifically saw it in a romantic light.
Namine: We were never friends...
Sora: we were never anything... or more.
It's that "more" that ties in with "more than friends" that goes along with his "too special" comment about Namine, two things Kairi never really received (him kneeling before Saix doesn't hold, he was already broken over Riku two minutes before, so he couldn't care less as long as Saix really did give him anything back. Anything just happened to be Kairi).

Kairi and Sora DO have some canon moments, but they're flawed and cliched and completely schizophrenic. It's definitely looking like that's where they're headed, and that means chucking Roxas at Namine and making do. (Again--not that I think it couldn't work, but I don't see a spark yet.)

You never heard my "Watanabe doesn't write Kairi" theory, did you?

I haven't, but he SHOULD'VE. From the BEGINNING. Kairi could've BEEN SOMEBODY, she really could, if they just put a little thought into her besides "likes Sora."

 

[Smile]

Namine and Roxas: I'm remembering you remembering me remembering you heehee fun!
Sora: (O_O;; Who are these people?!)
Kairi: WE'LL BE TOGETHER ITSUDEMO SORACHANKUN!!!!
Sora: (What?) Yeah, right, sure.
Namine: *poof*
Sora: (WTFPANCAKES.)

You forgot the whole
Riku: *holds him tightly* it's ok, I still love you
Sora: ;-;! *clings like a Koala to a tree branch* <3 Riku-chin
Riku: *molests him when no one is looking and poof, they're alone*

They'd have done more but the floor came crashing vertically, leaving them to pick up on it when they were at the beach.

For example, Sora clinging to her and making that promise out of nowhere

Clinging to her? What promise?

him totally freaking out and reaching for her during that Kairi flashback to the old gramma lady in Traverse Town

Understandably panicking, in my book, especially with everything that went on in Neverland and HB and shizzles.

the scene in Halloween Town where he randomly dances with her (wtf was that?)

I hated that. I can't help but see it as home-sickness (as Kairi represents Home in KH2), the circumstances (Jack and Sally dancing), and Namine all but forcing him to think about Kairi mostly.

the scene where he finally sees her and looks like he's bursting with joy and gets distracted enough for the Heartless to dogpile him

Ah, you mean when he sees her with Xehanort?
Yeah, now if only they'd have made him react half as much like that when he actually met her instead of staying as far away as he could and then bursting into tears over Riku

the stupid carvings and parallel discoveries of Kairi and Sora respectively (another thing that bothered me--if they were going to have him find her response to his paopu drawing and complete the circle, shouldn't they have shown the two of them TOGETHER afterwards, if not her showing him or him discovering it while she's WITH him?)

Again, Kairi representing Home instead of it being a SoKai romance moment. I actually approve of that.
Selphie was the one that gave the Paopu the romantic meaning, but the Paopu really is just that - it binds you together, it doesn't make you love each other. Sora finding that the Secret Place was just the way he left it, and to top it all - that Kairi returned the gesture with the Paopu meant just what Sora needed to see at the time -
That even after all of it, he still had a place he could return to, a place that welcomed him, a place with people that he cared for and cared for him back.
He still had a Home waiting for him.
That was actually one of the least (and thus, ironically, best) SoKai moments in the game.

plus the end of KH2 and him running straight to her the moment he finds his legs. It's all very forced, and seems to bounce back and forth between "I kind of feel like I should save you" and "I REALLY like you."

Well, they finally really brought an end to it all, and he was finally back home after two years of traveling and being away, a year of which he doesn't even remember because he was asleep.
I think Sora going "Tadaima" and Kairi going "Okaeri" despite Riku not being part of this happy home-coming shows more than anything there was hardly any SoKai in that scene.
It was them coming back home, and Kairi - the Home representative in light of them not writing anyone else from DI to fill the role and thus kill SoKai because it's not SoKai, it's home sickness - welcoming Sora back.
Sora didn't run to Kairi as much as he ran to the shore in a burst of ecstasy.
He was finally home.

And yes, that is me yes liking something not only about Kairi, but also about KH2's Kairi. Because neither have to do with Kairi really as much as putting her as an ideal - one of the ways to yes write her character, like they did in KH1. She was there, she had meaning, but we never ever got to hear from her really.

XD I should. But as much as I love those two, I got an even huger thing for Soriku.

That's the true beauty of Namine; the two don't contradict. SoRiNami ot3. She'd draw doujinshies.

Agreed. I'm just not sure if I see it happening romantically. They struck me more like siblings somehow.

Seeing how I'll forever more see their relationship as being painfully Sora-tainted, I can't see it romantically either. But the fact is they'd mesh a lot better than most other people, specifically Sora and Kairi - something we agree on.

XD The Riku of Light. I remember that thread.

I do believed I was repped for it when you were still a gray box XD

Unfortunately, I don't expect that to happen, because I don't think they'll let her be evil or misled, being a PoH. It's too deep and too good of an idea, and a little too far off the beaten path for them to do anything with it. (The princess is saved, and when she gets done getting saved, she gets kidnapped so she can be saved again.)

Iono, if Watanabe'll be on the case, there just might be hope. She doesn't even have to be evil, really, but like... did you ever see Shaman King? I think I brought that up often enough as well.
They wouldn't really have to have Kairi go psycho-bitch on everyone's ass.
Have her as the head-figure for a group of Light followers that do (what with her being a PoH) and it'll still be her getting attention and plot worth for her, not because Axel wanted his Roxas back and Namine wanted to somehow yes be with Sora at the end of the day.

Kairi and Sora DO have some canon moments, but they're flawed and cliched and completely schizophrenic. It's definitely looking like that's where they're headed, and that means chucking Roxas at Namine and making do. (Again--not that I think it couldn't work, but I don't see a spark yet.)

The thing is that like I said, SoKai lacks basis :\ KH2 - yes, it's would be romance and yes he thought about her and yes he went on his knees and blah blah blah, they must've missed the part where I said KH1 did not convince me Sora should give too much of a damn. KH2 having Sora hit puberty and have... awkward wake-up calls over Kairi doesn't mean he's in-love with her, which is what they tried doing :\ it means he's a male teenager whose hormones kicked in.

I haven't, but he SHOULD'VE. From the BEGINNING. Kairi could've BEEN SOMEBODY, she really could, if they just put a little thought into her besides "likes Sora."

The irony is that in KH1 where she was more bluntly a bitch, she was a better character than she was in KH2.
I theorize that Akiyama Jun, the third Scenario writer for KH1, wrote her.
Then we had Watanabe writing CoM, Days, BBS and Coded and Kairi doesn't seem to be there (while conscious; Coded'll have catatonic Kairi, after all).
And then came Nojima and his Kairi.

:\ ichs.

 

[Axie]

You forgot the whole
Riku: *holds him tightly* it's ok, I still love you
Sora: ;-;! *clings like a Koala to a tree branch* <3 Riku-chin
Riku: *molests him when no one is looking and poof, they're alone*

They'd have done more but the floor came crashing vertically, leaving them to pick up on it when they were at the beach.

XD

Clinging to her? What promise?

Poor choice of words--where he grabs her hand and says he'll come back to her. I know in your essay it says that he was referring to himself and Riku, and I agree (though I don't think Kairi saw it that way), but that's irrelevant. Point is, he seems so on and off with her; reaching out to her one moment like it's painful to watch her go, and then freaked out when she goes to hug him. I can't make heads or tails of it.

On a related note, I'm still trying to figure out how they knew that was becoming Destiny Islands. If I was talking with my best friend and suddenly the ground opened up between us, my first reaction would NOT be "You remember that time you said that thing about what you said? Yeah. I'll see you later!"

Maybe it's related to how everyone in Kingdom Hearts has the ability of foresight. They're always going "Look at that!" before something even appears.

Understandably panicking, in my book, especially with everything that went on in Neverland and HB and shizzles.

It was a weird scene to me. There was all this sudden desperation--akin to how he reaches out to Riku on the ruined Destiny Islands right before he turns into Ansem again. The thing that made it weird more than anything is that Kairi was definitely the focal point of that scene, regardless of any stress beforehand, and there aren't a lot of those.

!THEORY! Maybe young Kairi was a much nicer girl. And they drew each other pictures and it was soooo cute, d'aww--so maybe he was reaching to that Kairi out of nostalgia. [/idiocy]

I hated that. I can't help but see it as home-sickness (as Kairi represents Home in KH2), the circumstances (Jack and Sally dancing), and Namine all but forcing him to think about Kairi mostly.

Dancing, giggling, and blushing don't connect with home sweet home in my mind. It was definitely a romance moment, just randomly thrown in there. (Maybe as a result of Namine pushing him--that's what she was doing? Dammit, that feels MANIPULATIVE.)

Ah, you mean when he sees her with Xehanort?
Yeah, now if only they'd have made him react half as much like that when he actually met her instead of staying as far away as he could and then bursting into tears over Riku

That scene was weird too!!! He was so ready to dismiss her and move on, until she said something about him not coming back. Then he's suddenly sorry and remorseful, and it's almost like he's pulling a Riku. Maybe he felt like he broke his promise?

Again, Kairi representing Home instead of it being a SoKai romance moment. I actually approve of that.
Selphie was the one that gave the Paopu the romantic meaning, but the Paopu really is just that - it binds you together, it doesn't make you love each other. Sora finding that the Secret Place was just the way he left it, and to top it all - that Kairi returned the gesture with the Paopu meant just what Sora needed to see at the time -
That even after all of it, he still had a place he could return to, a place that welcomed him, a place with people that he cared for and cared for him back.
He still had a Home waiting for him.
That was actually one of the least (and thus, ironically, best) SoKai moments in the game.

That makes a ton of sense, and the fact that they weren't together or anything at the end cinches it. If that had been Namine, there would have been some togetherness somewhere. Not to mention the last screenshot at the end of the credits is him and Riku on the beach, not even him and her on the pier like last game.

Well, they finally really brought an end to it all, and he was finally back home after two years of traveling and being away, a year of which he doesn't even remember because he was asleep.
I think Sora going "Tadaima" and Kairi going "Okaeri" despite Riku not being part of this happy home-coming shows more than anything there was hardly any SoKai in that scene.
It was them coming back home, and Kairi - the Home representative in light of them not writing anyone else from DI to fill the role and thus kill SoKai because it's not SoKai, it's home sickness - welcoming Sora back.
Sora didn't run to Kairi as much as he ran to the shore in a burst of ecstasy.
He was finally home.

Again, loads of sense. And this actually really depresses me, because Kairi's pretty and I'd like to fix her. But she's becoming more and more of a truly hopeless case.

That's the true beauty of Namine; the two don't contradict. SoRiNami ot3. She'd draw doujinshies.

LOL. I gotta get into some of those, I haven't figured out how they work yet.

Seeing how I'll forever more see their relationship as being painfully Sora-tainted, I can't see it romantically either. But the fact is they'd mesh a lot better than most other people, specifically Sora and Kairi - something we agree on.

Totally.

I do believed I was repped for it when you were still a gray box XD

GRAH. Sorry for that. I did not understand rep at the time. XP

Iono, if Watanabe'll be on the case, there just might be hope. She doesn't even have to be evil, really, but like... did you ever see Shaman King? I think I brought that up often enough as well.
They wouldn't really have to have Kairi go psycho-bitch on everyone's ass.
Have her as the head-figure for a group of Light followers that do (what with her being a PoH) and it'll still be her getting attention and plot worth for her, not because Axel wanted his Roxas back and Namine wanted to somehow yes be with Sora at the end of the day.

And give her a goddam character to go with it.

I haven't seen Shaman King, but somehow the idea of her as a head figure for a group of Light followers creates an image of my head of a cackling, psychotic Kairi scribbling in a Death Note.

The thing is that like I said, SoKai lacks basis :\ KH2 - yes, it's would be romance and yes he thought about her and yes he went on his knees and blah blah blah, they must've missed the part where I said KH1 did not convince me Sora should give too much of a damn. KH2 having Sora hit puberty and have... awkward wake-up calls over Kairi doesn't mean he's in-love with her, which is what they tried doing :\ it means he's a male teenager whose hormones kicked in.

YES THIS. I meant to mention this, and that's why I think what little schizo Sokai there is is completely baseless and confusingly empty. And yeah--I'm just always boggled by how he sometimes cares for and sometimes brushes off this girl who he MIGHT'VE had a crush on at the beginning of KH1, but has somehow become "DESTINED for each other" through the most dubious plot devices ever.

I've heard people talking about how cute it'll be when/if they kiss in KH3, and all I can think is OH. GOD. PLZ. NO. Not that I expect it, but they ARE getting older, and after Xion I'm not sure WHAT to expect anymore. O_O;

 

[Smile]

Poor choice of words--where he grabs her hand and says he'll come back to her. I know in your essay it says that he was referring to himself and Riku, and I agree (though I don't think Kairi saw it that way), but that's irrelevant. Point is, he seems so on and off with her; reaching out to her one moment like it's painful to watch her go, and then freaked out when she goes to hug him. I can't make heads or tails of it.

Because that scene at the end of KH1 was - again - Home related. Kairi was the person who was all but destined to sit tight and wait for them. Of course he'd come back to Kairi - she was on the Islands.

On a related note, I'm still trying to figure out how they knew that was becoming Destiny Islands. If I was talking with my best friend and suddenly the ground opened up between us, my first reaction would NOT be "You remember that time you said that thing about what you said? Yeah. I'll see you later!"

Because Sora wasn't just dashing off happily; he still had a mission. So to him it was a continuation of everything amazing and unbelivable, while Kairi was left to go emo waiting for him.

Maybe it's related to how everyone in Kingdom Hearts has the ability of foresight. They're always going "Look at that!" before something even appears.

Like the Power Rangers jump right before the sparks show...

!THEORY! Maybe young Kairi was a much nicer girl. And they drew each other pictures and it was soooo cute, d'aww--so maybe he was reaching to that Kairi out of nostalgia. [/idiocy]

xD maybe. Or maybe he was just floating in an unknown place, seeing a child Kairi, and hearing a freaky old lady tell tales of doom and destruction.

Dancing, giggling, and blushing don't connect with home sweet home in my mind. It was definitely a romance moment, just randomly thrown in there.

Kairi was giggling and blushing which certainly ties in with how he'd remember her whenever she was around him. That just shows that was his experience with her, not how he'd want to see her that child molester

(Maybe as a result of Namine pushing him--that's what she was doing? Dammit, that feels MANIPULATIVE.)

Seeing how he couldn't really remember anything but his good luck charm still changed from Naminé's to Kairi's, I'd definitely say Naminé had a lot to do with a lot of it, starting from making him think specifically of Kairi to even changing Memories from Naminé to be ones about Kairi. They wouldn't be contradictory really as long as Sora wouldn't bring them up to Kairi (and they could always shrug it off as Kairi not remembering her childhood too well) but would serve to direct his attention away from Naminé and towards Kairi.

That scene was weird too!!! He was so ready to dismiss her and move on, until she said something about him not coming back. Then he's suddenly sorry and remorseful, and it's almost like he's pulling a Riku. Maybe he felt like he broke his promise?

I always saw it more as him apologizing to her for not bringing her boyfriend back to her. There's enough supporting Sora is a firm believer in Riku/Kairi from the early days of KH1 (DI, after all), so Kairi all of a sudden yes caring about Riku (probably because Riku was right there) would've hit a chord with Sora about the entire thing. It was more reminding him of his short comings in finding Riku, imo.

That makes a ton of sense, and the fact that they weren't together or anything at the end cinches it. If that had been Namine, there would have been some togetherness somewhere. Not to mention the last screenshot at the end of the credits is him and Riku on the beach, not even him and her on the pier like last game.

:}~

Again, loads of sense. And this actually really depresses me, because Kairi's pretty and I'd like to fix her. But she's becoming more and more of a truly hopeless case.

I liked her a lot more visually in KH1. Which is why I'm really happy Xion has more of an Aqua-hair cut than KH2 Kairi or ever KH1. The short hair suits that face.

I haven't seen Shaman King, but somehow the idea of her as a head figure for a group of Light followers creates an image of my head of a cackling, psychotic Kairi scribbling in a Death Note.

Good gods no.
Well, seeing how you're into Shonen ai, watched Gundam Wing maybe? Relena type.

YES THIS. I meant to mention this, and that's why I think what little schizo Sokai there is is completely baseless and confusingly empty. And yeah--I'm just always boggled by how he sometimes cares for and sometimes brushes off this girl who he MIGHT'VE had a crush on at the beginning of KH1, but has somehow become "DESTINED for each other" through the most dubious plot devices ever.

Because he's horny and without Riku he has to make do.

I've heard people talking about how cute it'll be when/if they kiss in KH3, and all I can think is OH. GOD. PLZ. NO. Not that I expect it, but they ARE getting older, and after Xion I'm not sure WHAT to expect anymore. O_O;

SoKai post CoM = SoNami's fault. So I still win at the end XD

 

[Celestial Star]

Kairi is useless.
She's a typical damsel in distress.
I hate damsels in distress they're annoying.
Kairi is there just to add plot...not much but thats all shes fucking good for.

namine I liked because, well, she is a damsel, but she's...INTELLIGENT, quiet and sweet and understands her situation and accepts it and she knows her place.

 

[Axie]

Kairi was giggling and blushing which certainly ties in with how he'd remember her whenever she was around him. That just shows that was his experience with her, not how he'd want to see her that child molester

Thing is, he gets all bashful and has to snap himself out of it, and the sparkly pink background and echoing laughter is a textbook example of cartoon romance. It's meant to be seen romantically. Problem is, Nojima fails at romance. Also it's completely random, so it comes off as hormones.

He also gets all blushing and defensive at the Isle de Muerta, and while her name isn't outright mentioned, relating back to Halloween Town and the same idea of Disney people pairing up, the suggestion is most likely Kairi. These sentiments do not jive with how he treats her when he runs into her at TWTNW. Basically, not only is the Sokai relationship deeply flawed--it's screwy and can't decide what it is.

Seeing how he couldn't really remember anything but his good luck charm still changed from Naminé's to Kairi's, I'd definitely say Naminé had a lot to do with a lot of it, starting from making him think specifically of Kairi to even changing Memories from Naminé to be ones about Kairi. They wouldn't be contradictory really as long as Sora wouldn't bring them up to Kairi (and they could always shrug it off as Kairi not remembering her childhood too well) but would serve to direct his attention away from Naminé and towards Kairi.

I missed this. Which ones were these, or was it just implied? (I bet it was in the stupid novel that I still haven't read. That's been translated, right?)

I always saw it more as him apologizing to her for not bringing her boyfriend back to her. There's enough supporting Sora is a firm believer in Riku/Kairi from the early days of KH1 (DI, after all), so Kairi all of a sudden yes caring about Riku (probably because Riku was right there) would've hit a chord with Sora about the entire thing. It was more reminding him of his short comings in finding Riku, imo.

Is Nomura the one writing Sora? Because whoever's writing Sora is not a Sokai shipper. Just can't do it. (And Nojima and the other dude can't comprehend subtlety.)

I liked her a lot more visually in KH1. Which is why I'm really happy Xion has more of an Aqua-hair cut than KH2 Kairi or ever KH1. The short hair suits that face.

Yeah, she was definitely more appealing in KH1 (unless we're talking boobs and hips, but like I go for them, so). But I have more of a problem with Xion's hair because in some shots it looks like somebody attacked her with some garden shears.

Good gods no.
Well, seeing how you're into Shonen ai, watched Gundam Wing maybe? Relena type.

Haven't seen that one either, sorry. My anime experience has been, uh. DBZ. And a little Death Note.

Because he's horny and without Riku he has to make do.

Well, if he's acting out of hormones, that means he's straight or bi. Which works for you but not so much for me.

SoKai post CoM = SoNami's fault. So I still win at the end XD

Yeah, but it's still gonna be Kairi giggling obsequiously and making a stupid comment about Riku or Sora or whatever seems like the most offensive thing to say at the time, and it'll still. SUCK.

 

[Smile]

Thing is, he gets all bashful and has to snap himself out of it, and the sparkly pink background and echoing laughter is a textbook example of cartoon romance. It's meant to be seen romantically. Problem is, Nojima fails at romance. Also it's completely random, so it comes off as hormones.

Or Naminé Memories.

He also gets all blushing and defensive at the Isle de Muerta, and while her name isn't outright mentioned, relating back to Halloween Town and the same idea of Disney people pairing up, the suggestion is most likely Kairi. These sentiments do not jive with how he treats her when he runs into her at TWTNW. Basically, not only is the Sokai relationship deeply flawed--it's screwy and can't decide what it is.

I know. It's horrible. It's the prime example of "say so" relationships. They said so, they never backed it up. :thumbdown:

I missed this. Which ones were these, or was it just implied? (I bet it was in the stupid novel that I still haven't read. That's been translated, right?)

You couldn't have missed the charm changing back. It was kind of a big deal. The rest if speculations on my part that make sense.

Is Nomura the one writing Sora? Because whoever's writing Sora is not a Sokai shipper. Just can't do it. (And Nojima and the other dude can't comprehend subtlety.)

Nomura writes the general plot. So unless he specifically said to do something with Kairi, it wouldn't happen.
Nojima just screwed it up but shoving SoKai when he could in KH2 without relating it to the plot, and then when they did get to the plot, Nomura dictated Sora would care more about Riku than Kairi.
Lawl.

Haven't seen that one either, sorry. My anime experience has been, uh. DBZ. And a little Death Note.

Damn XD

Well, if he's acting out of hormones, that means he's straight or bi. Which works for you but not so much for me.

Bi, bi. SoRiku is the most canon relationship out there, it's the nature of the relationship that's debatable.

Yeah, but it's still gonna be Kairi giggling obsequiously and making a stupid comment about Riku or Sora or whatever seems like the most offensive thing to say at the time, and it'll still. SUCK.

I know. Kairi is like the epitome of all I hate in KH. She's the series' flaws all wrapped up in a single character.

 

[keybladelegacy]

i hope kairi plays a big part in kh3 because she doesnt seem important in the other games maybe except kh 1

 

[Smile]

i hope kairi plays a big part in kh3 because she doesnt seem important in the other games maybe except kh 1

yes, because she's useless. SoD Ansem said so himself.

 

[Axie]

Or Naminé Memories.

I dunno that this has roots in that. Dancing comes from Sally, Kairi comes from hormones, pink background comes from oh god my eyes please stop.

I know. It's horrible. It's the prime example of "say so" relationships. They said so, they never backed it up. :thumbdown:

They should let it die already and focus on something else. It's literally unsalvagable unless Watanabe is a miracle-worker (and takes pity on Kairi).

You couldn't have missed the charm changing back. It was kind of a big deal. The rest if speculations on my part that make sense.

Oh yeah yeah, I saw the charm thing--it's the rest I'm confused about, because I don't recall anything about Sora's head getting screwed with in KH2.

Damn XD

It's not a part of my life I'm proud of.

Bi, bi. SoRiku is the most canon relationship out there, it's the nature of the relationship that's debatable.

AH, and I just remembered Nomura saying he was bi! But--you mean loving versus platonic? Well, if Sora WERE straight (fur reelz, no lai), it'd become an impossibility, since it's kind of tough to look at somebody like that if you're not physically attracted to them.

I know. Kairi is like the epitome of all I hate in KH. She's the series' flaws all wrapped up in a single character.

Would you believe I still don't hate her? I mean, I guess I hate the character--but I usually toss that aside and work up a new one. (Most of my KH involvement goes into fanfiction nowadays, mainly because I replayed KH2 up to the part where Roxas saw the ghost train and almost died of boredom. You play it once and you're done, nothing left to see.)

 

[Smile]

They should let it die already and focus on something else. It's literally unsalvagable unless Watanabe is a miracle-worker (and takes pity on Kairi).

He'll work his miracle.
Days'll further base SoNami, she'll come back in KH3, and disappear back into Kairi, leaving Sora with no other options.
Hoozah.

Oh yeah yeah, I saw the charm thing--it's the rest I'm confused about, because I don't recall anything about Sora's head getting screwed with in KH2.

Ah, no, I was just saying - she did it once. Who's to say she didn't take the Memories of her, rewrote them to be Memories of Kairi, and left them there? Since it's Kairi in his Memories, it wouldn't really be contradictory to anything and would tell Sora to love Kairi baselessly.

AH, and I just remembered Nomura saying he was bi!

I want quotes for that one

But--you mean loving versus platonic? Well, if Sora WERE straight (fur reelz, no lai), it'd become an impossibility, since it's kind of tough to look at somebody like that if you're not physically attracted to them.

I know. They're like... beyond friends, not quite lovers.

Would you believe I still don't hate her? I mean, I guess I hate the character--but I usually toss that aside and work up a new one. (Most of my KH involvement goes into fanfiction nowadays, mainly because I replayed KH2 up to the part where Roxas saw the ghost train and almost died of boredom. You play it once and you're done, nothing left to see.)

The thing is I could write up a wonderful Kairi - but it'd be OOC to me. I like writing about her though to give her insight even if I still portray her a bitch (upcoming fic >:3 wait for it).
I just prefer not to write about her. It's amazing though how much Kairi sucking really pushed me into SoRiku. I mean, I love SoNami a tad more (het fan at heart, no helping it) but I can't write about them because of the circumstances.
SoRiku is the only decent couple I have left, seeing how SoKai sucks so badly.

 

[Axie]

Ah, no, I was just saying - she did it once. Who's to say she didn't take the Memories of her, rewrote them to be Memories of Kairi, and left them there? Since it's Kairi in his Memories, it wouldn't really be contradictory to anything and would tell Sora to love Kairi baselessly.

I guess it would work, but that's not the image I got when she was describing the way she'd work the memories.

I don't destroy memories. I just take apart the links and rearrange them.

So she didn't directly alter anything in Sora's memories, only made them inaccessible and filled up the empty space with new ones.

Jiminy: You said you'd have to undo the links you made. But that means--
Namine: Yes, Jiminy. You won't be able to recall what happened in this castle.

Everything connected with Oblivion has to be gone, then, because those really happened; they're not things she can alter like the fake memories. The fake ones she could alter, but I don't think she'd do that. Seems like she'd make a clean job of it and remove everything.

I don't think it's impossible, I'm just not gonna be convinced until I hear Sora talking about his promise to protect Kairi from the falling stars.

I want quotes for that one

T_T I wish I had them. This was awhile back, I don't think it was even on here--probably on ansemreport.com back right after KH2 came out. I'll hafta see if I can dig it up, I forget if anybody actually had a legitimate quote; the main idea just stuck in my mind for some reason.

I know. They're like... beyond friends, not quite lovers.

I'm not so sure I see them that way. I think you could go either way with them, really--because men are more affectionate with one another in Japan, it's not as big of a deal, but that crosses boundaries over here. Seen that way, most of the Soriku stuff can be explained away as friendly devotion; even the crying scene isn't out of the ordinary for a long lost best friend, whether it's a guy, girl, hermaphrodite, whatever. Even Akuroku has a tenuous grip when you factor in the isolation; Roxas was literally all Axel had. With everyone else, it was kill or be killed. (Except for Xion, who's pending at the moment and it looks like there's gonna be some retcon if they're not careful--and oh! Even with her, he gets pretty emotional about having to fight her.)

I wouldn't say that there's nothing to these relationships (especially in light of Sokai), but they're definitely not intended and the characters' chemistry is pretty flexible.

The thing is I could write up a wonderful Kairi - but it'd be OOC to me. I like writing about her though to give her insight even if I still portray her a bitch (upcoming fic >:3 wait for it).
I just prefer not to write about her. It's amazing though how much Kairi sucking really pushed me into SoRiku. I mean, I love SoNami a tad more (het fan at heart, no helping it) but I can't write about them because of the circumstances.
SoRiku is the only decent couple I have left, seeing how SoKai sucks so badly.

The more I learn about Kairi, the more I need to add to her. Right now my version is more like Olette, a bit of a mother hen with a dangerous streak (and very much in love with Riku, which Sora graciously accepts). When I work her over next, she'll probably have a slightly psychotic obsession with Sora and occasional bouts of angst over a feeling of incompletion (my own stupid reference to her status as a crummy character).

 

[Smile]

Everything connected with Oblivion has to be gone, then, because those really happened;

Only they're not gone XD; if anything, those're the ones Sora remembers now.

I wouldn't say that there's nothing to these relationships (especially in light of Sokai), but they're definitely not intended and the characters' chemistry is pretty flexible.

I wouldn't say they're not intended; SoRiku was intended. The fangirls going the extra distance wasn't. Which is the irony - everything that isn't supposed to be romantic (and SoNami) is much better than SoKai.
It's like why I'm always frustrated by shonen anime. Because they're not supposed to deal with romance, they develop the relationships so much better between the characters. And because they're shonen they won't have canon gays so you have SoRiku-quality relationships between the guys too left and right.
Gah.

The more I learn about Kairi, the more I need to add to her. Right now my version is more like Olette, a bit of a mother hen with a dangerous streak (and very much in love with Riku, which Sora graciously accepts). When I work her over next, she'll probably have a slightly psychotic obsession with Sora and occasional bouts of angst over a feeling of incompletion (my own stupid reference to her status as a crummy character).

Me and Org_42 are with you on the RiKai thingie T_T RiKai/SoNami = winning combo.
Leave Roxas with Axel and Xion.
Or like you said, make Kairi go cookoo.

 

[Axie]

Only they're not gone XD; if anything, those're the ones Sora remembers now.

I didn't mean GONE gone, I meant out of the question as far as alterations go.

I wouldn't say they're not intended; SoRiku was intended. The fangirls going the extra distance wasn't. Which is the irony - everything that isn't supposed to be romantic (and SoNami) is much better than SoKai.
It's like why I'm always frustrated by shonen anime. Because they're not supposed to deal with romance, they develop the relationships so much better between the characters. And because they're shonen they won't have canon gays so you have SoRiku-quality relationships between the guys too left and right.
Gah.

I meant what you said--as far as the fans have taken it. Everything between guys is so homoerotically platonic in Kingdom Hearts. (Sea-salt ice cream, anyone?)

Me and Org_42 are with you on the RiKai thingie T_T RiKai/SoNami = winning combo.

When I'm feeling hetlike, yeah. But that's unfortunately pretty rare, it tends to bore me somehow. And I'm kinda fickle with my pairings. Namine one minute, Kairi the next, throw in some Xion--D'OH, 404! Character motivation not found! (Yet.)

Leave Roxas with Axel.

Fixed. :3

 

[Smile]

I meant what you said--as far as the fans have taken it. Everything between guys is so homoerotically platonic in Kingdom Hearts. (Sea-salt ice cream, anyone?)

Which lets those relationships be the most based and amazing found.

When I'm feeling hetlike, yeah. But that's unfortunately pretty rare, it tends to bore me somehow. And I'm kinda fickle with my pairings. Namine one minute, Kairi the next, throw in some Xion--D'OH, 404! Character motivation not found! (Yet.)

Aqua

Hope that helped

Fixed. :3

No, with Xion there. I like her :3

 

[Axie]

Aqua

Hope that helped

Not yeeeeetttt. For one, I don't know the first thing about Aqua's character, either. And even if she's Aqua's Nobody/Kairi's Aqua-based Bullshit Nobody, that doesn't necessarily mean she'll act the same. (I'm really hoping Ven isn't just an all-around Roxas clone, for that matter.)

No, with Xion there. I like her :3

Still reserving judgement. The shock of the potentially wonderful, potentially disastrous fourteenth member making a trinity out of my favorite pairing has not worn off.