You won't regret reading this! (ideas on bbs)

[Ansem Darkheart]

Alright, this theory is a collaboration between Ansem Darkheart and Awesome Ansem(myself, doing the typing). As much as we enjoy reading the forums and everybody's theories, often we feel that the theories are not fully thought out, and we can easily point out multiple flaws. But none the less, the forums always spark our interest in kh speculation, so we have decided to have a go at this. The goal of this thread isn't to prove or disprove anything, but rather to make you guys think about things a little deeper.

About the new enemies from bbs. It's unlikely that these enemies are the "dawns" we keep reading about. First off, dawn is a kind of twilight, which would mean that these new enemies hail from the realm of nothingness, or twilight (they're the same realm) same as nobodies. Does anybody really think that we will have another "nothingness" enemy? I mean, I was surprised that there was even one nothingness enemy, because, ya know, it's nothingness.

Also, the new enemies being some combination of heart and body and soul is highly unlikely. We already know that birth by sleep took place before the appearence and apparent creation of the heartless and nobodies (according to nomura, and I trust that guy). If the heart and body and soul are already being split up at this point, wouldn't the heartless and nobodies already exist? well, not nobodies, but you know what I mean.... Plus, I, and I'm sure many others, believe that kingdom hearts is more about the hearts and heartless than it is about nobodies and bodies & souls; the nobodies just exist basically as anti-heartless, to counteract the heartless. The nobodies are just the leftovers of a heartless. What else could there possibly be? If the third enemy was some combination of the life components (heart, body, soul), then the game would be about those three components, and not about hearts at all.

Either way, it's pretty clear we don't know what these enemies are. They could be beings made of magic. The could be inhabitants of one of the worlds. The point is there are a million things these new enemies could be, and it doesn't have to be something we're already used to, such as body+heart+soul, or twilight. BBS seems like it's more about keyblades than it is about "light vs. dark" or hearts and bodies and such.

Next, let's talk about these eclipse symbols. An eclipse is yet another combination of light and dark, mostly dark. Doesn't this seem a little tired by now? You can only have light and dark, and anything in between is just a form of twilight. These symbols could represent a new bad guy, or an organization (not 13) or something else. It can't really be associated with any realm (like heartless symbol & dark, nobody symbol & twilight) because all that's left is the realm of light. And if you doubt this, nomura has stated that there are only the realms of light and darkness, and the space inbetween those realms. And since one of the symbols can be seen on one of the new enemies, this would mean that the new enemies are "light" enemies. This just seems like something that would never happen for obvious reasons...... For one, we've been in the realm of light plenty of times and never seen these enemies. Two, the light realm doesn't seem like the spawning point of evil, which enemies usually are.

(Darkheart typing now.) The keyblades are the main focus of birth by sleep. In the secret ending to KH2FM+ there are many references to this. Fields of Keyblades, five badass keybladers, two of them having keychains on their keyblades. What makes the keyblades that Terra,Aqua, and Ven wield different from those of MX and the DS? Why can Ven's Keyblade break? And in my opinion MX uses his Keyblade to open a or the Kingdom Hearts (we are still unclear whether all kh's are same or not.)

There are two distinct styles of keyblades in the trailer. First is MX and DS's keyblades that contain keychains, and is closer to a traditional keyblade that sora would use, aside from its evil look. Then there is the keychainless style, referring to the ones in the ground and the ones the knights use. There is obviously a difference.
Along with all the cinematic references, there are written references as well quoting the Ansem reports. Specifically ones related to the legends and origins of the Keyblade. Just maybe the new enemies might be related to the Keyblade(s). I cant think of how or the "science" behind it. But this to me is a more possible outcome than anything base of "dawn" or "eclipse."

If anyone has any other ideas or thoughts, feel free to post them. Im sure we didnt cover every topic that is unclear, remember this is speculation. We made this thread so you could see our thoughts, so now lets see yours.

 

[Awesome Ansem]

^ what he-I mean I- I mean we said! ^

 

[BetwiXt&Betw33nX]

i dont see anything new here really...sorry guys...i had my hopes up for something new T_T

 

[Kairy]

I thought the keyblades w/o the chains meant that they were fake but obviously the knights use their power and i think bbs is going to be more about death and being reborn or sumtin like that... but i don't think the new enemies are related to the keyblades because from the trailer the enemy doesnt even use one...or maybe the enemy has sumtin to do with there being fields of keyblades, and also i think since nobodies and heartless are even known at this point that the enemy could be something thats connected between two realms and im not talking between light and dark what about dark and twighlight- idk just a guess im tired - and another thing is that we still need to learn more about when the body leaves the heart and soul behind-ok im goin to stop lol im gettin crazy

 

[Xuan]

Yes, I've already stated in Anime Relic's BBS theory that the body, soul and heart should be excluded for the moment because we had no idea what are their involvement in the creation of the new enemies. So your theory is well argued.

About the Keyblades, I've already have my own thoughts and ideas on it, so I won't be discussing about yours or mine until I've finish researching them.

 

[evilinterpol]

i think the chasers and mx can turn into werewolfs, im pretty shure of this speculation because , after the fight with terra in final mix he turns into a wolf, and i found a werewolf form master xehanort, ive also learned that aqua had something to do with the orgz because , in final mix, theres a cut scene where a member finds her armor underneath ansem the wises computer room

 

[evilinterpol]

 

[evilinterpol]

seach my myspace for werewolf pic , MySpace.com - www.myspace.com/256829864

 

[Anima Relic]

Well, in my BBS theory, I have said that the basic or the first form of the new enemies from BBS might be called Dawns, just like Shadows are Heartless, and Dusks are nobodies. I've been thinking about thier name as a whole faction of enemies, and I've recently become inclined to believe they are called Lingering Sentiments. I say this because of two reasons. 1. In KH2FM, Terra or "Lingering Sentiment" was an optional boss fight. In an interview, Nomura didn't say that it was Terra, but it didn't matter if we thought it was him or not. This led me to believe that Terra might have become one of the New Enemies from BBS, just like Xehanort was a heartless and a nobody. Also, if any of this were true, I believe the New Enemies have similarities to Heartless and Nobodies, for example, I think the New Enemies act on a single emotion. Just like Heartless act on instint and Nobodies act on their memories and they are somewhat intelligent. I believe the New Enemies act on a single emotion, and it's expressed in the way they attack. But anways it's all in my BBS Theory that's probably still on the front page. Oh, sorry, I forgot to add my second reason as to why I think the new enemies faction is called Lingering Sentiments.

2. After the fight with the Lingering Sentiment, it said all it could REMEMBER was it's HATRED for Xehanort. Hatred, anger, rage, those are emotions. This also ties in with how the New Enemies might just have hearts. They may have Souls as well, because the soul contains memories. Nobodies have memories so this is proof. So if the New Enemies were just a heart and soul, they might be able to wield light and darkness, along with have one single driving emotion that they remember. Also, I do think they come from the Twilight Realm. Just because Nobodies didn't exist in BBS, doesn't mean the Twilight realm never existed. It does exist in BBS, so I believe the Twlight realm might have been populated by the 'Lingering Sentiments' before Nobodies came along.

 

[Spazzboy911]

so what ive figured aobut the BBS trailer at the end of KHIIFM is that they wre fighting in the middle of an armory, which is also where they decided to store this enormous heart shaped moon refered to as KH. im not stating this as fact, only speculation. So if this is an armory then theoreticly, this is where they other keyblade forms go when 'resting'* or when Sora isnt using them, so i never gave into the idea of 'fake' or 'false' keyblades, it sounds too much like an antichrist

but about what ADH said at the beginning, i think all you just said, without actualy saying anything, was more acurate than 98% of the random crap i read here. ie-"KH movie" "xehanort is sora" or "riku is xemnas"
so thanx for making sense -gives overly exaderated thumbs up-

*this may or may not be a refrence to the phrase "Birth By Sleep"

 

[Xuan]

Good gorgeous, I absolutely agree with the 98% you're saying about. This might be a short summary but it is good. I, by no means agree nor disagree that it's accurate, but clearly it has gone through what people refer as the analytic thinking. In a more pratical and simple way to say is, cautious posting.

 

[Kairy]

so this is what we know or think we know (just sayin about everything besides enemies) sora and ven are connected since ven looks like roxas and many indications such as roxas stating "I don't kno why he picked you" to sora, Terra which i believe picked riku as the keyblade wielder or sumtin like that as he said to sora khfm your not the one I picked and it seems both terra and riku have a connection to Xehanort, kairi somehow maybe connected to aqua( having to do with namine-not saying she is aqua or aquas nobody and/or maybe her strange connection w/ven). I also believe that aqua could be connected to ATW just thinkin as one of you said before her armour was in the computer room. I do doubt that one of these new characters-VAT, are reincarnations and are actually Sora riku and kairi. but they definately have some connection. I do agree with the whole heart and soul thing of what the enemies are but Im not enirely sure their from the twighlight realm or maybe part of them are from that realm or caught between to realms.

 

[Yannis]

You know what.. You should have mentioned me!! Im becoming mad at you, so could you mention that Eclipse is my theory?

And this isnt any special theory. YOU ARE JUST COLLECTING THEORIES OF OTHER PEOPLE!!! And you didnt come to any breathtaking conclusion..

 

[Kairy]

please dont be rude were just throwin out ideas

 

[Xziled]

like yannis said this theory is just a compilation of other theories but they've added their own thoughts to it we shouldnt throw any ideas away cuz who knows even the most mundane ones could brush up the truth and also i think the chainless keyblades might be the original forms of the keyblades

 

[Gexus]

I really think that the new enemies have something to do with the heart of a keyblade instead of a person. Or just keyblades in general.

Oh and there's one thing that disproves the theory that the new enemy might be a combination of a heart , a body and a soul because those three things make up a person.

 

[Kairy]

lol i agree with that but i do think the enemy may be split between realms not light and dark but dark and twighlight, and i think its got to do with the soul and heart more than anything- but then again they do have a body so im not completely sure. But i think the new enemy is able to control his heart which i also thinks he can control his nobody and heartless so they can take form at any time- and i agree with the one theory or observation that states how the enemy has most of the same powers as ATW apprentices- and its no coincidence that xehanort and Master Xehanorts name is the same obviously

 

[Awesome Ansem]

I've been thinking about thier name as a whole faction of enemies, and I've recently become inclined to believe they are called Lingering Sentiments. I say this because of two reasons. 1. In KH2FM, Terra or "Lingering Sentiment" was an optional boss fight. In an interview, Nomura didn't say that it was Terra, but it didn't matter if we thought it was him or not. This led me to believe that Terra might have become one of the New Enemies from BBS, just like Xehanort was a heartless and a nobody. Also, if any of this were true, I believe the New Enemies have similarities to Heartless and Nobodies, for example, I think the New Enemies act on a single emotion. Just like Heartless act on instint and Nobodies act on their memories and they are somewhat intelligent. I believe the New Enemies act on a single emotion, and it's expressed in the way they attack. But anways it's all in my BBS Theory that's probably still on the front page. Oh, sorry, I forgot to add my second reason as to why I think the new enemies faction is called Lingering Sentiments.

I kind of like where you're going with this...

2. After the fight with the Lingering Sentiment, it said all it could REMEMBER was it's HATRED for Xehanort. Hatred, anger, rage, those are emotions. This also ties in with how the New Enemies might just have hearts. They may have Souls as well, because the soul contains memories. Nobodies have memories so this is proof. So if the New Enemies were just a heart and soul, they might be able to wield light and darkness, along with have one single driving emotion that they remember. Also, I do think they come from the Twilight Realm. Just because Nobodies didn't exist in BBS, doesn't mean the Twilight realm never existed. It does exist in BBS, so I believe the Twlight realm might have been populated by the 'Lingering Sentiments' before Nobodies came along.

Well yeah, the twilight realm has existed just as long as the light and dark realms. Whether or not I agree with that theory, you provided some really solid evidence of why it could be possible. In other words you connected the dots in terms of things we already know, which many people fail to do. Most people with that theory would've just said "I think that the new enemies are hearts and souls because we haven't seen that combination yet," or some dumb reason about "where does that soul go when a heartless and nobody are created? sometimes it goes to the heart.." which would be wrong. Long story short: good job, you made me happy.

But here's something to think about: souls maust not be the only keeper of memories. Sora and xehanort both kept their memories while they were in heartless form. And if heartless can retain memories, as rare an event as that may be, would they be the same as the "lingering spirits"? Also, how would one go about extracting the body to just leave the heart and soul? Remember, this is before the heartless and nobodies appeared because AtW and xehanort hadn't started doing those kinds of experiments yet. Sure heartless can come to be without performing any experiments, but nomura said they weren't around.

You know what.. You should have mentioned me!! Im becoming mad at you, so could you mention that Eclipse is my theory?

yes, the eclipse theory is yours. no reason to be mad...

And this isnt any special theory. YOU ARE JUST COLLECTING THEORIES OF OTHER PEOPLE!!! And you didnt come to any breathtaking conclusion..

When you say "collecting theories of other people" you make it sound like me and Darkheart just stole their ideas. We weren't making a new theory, we were just throwing something out there that wasn't the usual "well this happened in the first two games so this must happen in the next game" theory; such as the many "blah blah blah the new enemies must be some combination of light and dark, again" theories. If we did come up with some breathtaking conclusion, it could just be easily disproved, because none of us know what will happen in the next game yet; therefore, we cannot accurately speculate about anything about bbs.

 

[Anima Relic]

^I forgot about how Sora still had his memories when he was just a heart. This actually inspires me to make a new theory.

 

[Ansem Darkheart]

You know what.. You should have mentioned me!! Im becoming mad at you, so could you mention that Eclipse is my theory?

And this isnt any special theory. YOU ARE JUST COLLECTING THEORIES OF OTHER PEOPLE!!! And you didnt come to any breathtaking conclusion..

I apologize that I didn't give you credit for crap. I was using your theory as an example of what not to do, and I didn't think you would like me slandering your name. So I'm sorry.

If you would have read we did not use your theory at all. In fact we were disproving it. Yes we were collecting theories, but not to steal, to disprove to make ours seem more logical. PEACE!

i think the chasers and mx can turn into werewolfs, im pretty shure of this speculation because , after the fight with terra in final mix he turns into a wolf, and i found a werewolf form master xehanort, ive also learned that aqua had something to do with the orgz because , in final mix, theres a cut scene where a member finds her armor underneath ansem the wises computer room

seach my myspace for werewolf pic , MySpace.com - MySpace.com - www.myspace.com/256829864

WOW, Evilinterpol, wow. I looked at your so called pic of Werewolf Master Xehanort. I got a tell ya, its Vincent Valentine. Galien Beast Vincent to be specific. For those of you, such as Evilinterpol who don't know who that is, he is the gunslinging-exTurk-vampiric-badass from FF7, and is like the only FF7 character not in Kingdom Hearts.