Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 Trailer vol. 1 released at Microsoft Conference
- Details
- Published on June 10, 2018 @ 04:00 am
- Written by Arielle
The brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 trailer released during the Microsoft Press conference featuring a ton of amazing new story content, gameplay, and new music!
More information will be expected to be flowing in from E3 so remember to follow Kingdom Hearts Insider on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr for the latest updates on Kingdom Hearts Union χ [Cross], Kingdom Hearts 3 and all things Kingdom Hearts!
COMMENTS
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
No BH6 and Frozen? I hope this means another world tomorrow.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The gummi ship!!! I'm still ready to see the orchestra trailer. Well done SE... well done
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Larxene yes!!!
What did they do to Aqua? Meh. Cringeworthy :( I hope it's just an illusion or something.
Agreed, unless it really is Phantom Aqua tricking them I don't like where this is going. It makes BBS 0.2 feel even more pointless.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
WHAT HAPPENED TO MY AQUA?!?!?!?!?!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
What did they do to Aqua? Meh. Cringeworthy :( I hope it's just an illusion or something.
All I was thinking was "good job, Mickey, Aqua's evil coz of you" but yeah, I also hope it's some kind of illusion coz wasn't the point of Aqua defeating her evil mirror self in 2.8 a way to defeat her darkness from consuming her?
Strangely enough the most exciting thing I saw were the NPCs. I'm just so happy that the worlds will be so lively now. Also that Simba summon was pretty awesome, it's great to have him as a summon again. I liked that we saw more of Tangled and Frozen was cool too, I don't think anyone was surprised that it showed up .
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
OMG Aqua is a Darkness isn't she. Dunno how to feel about this hngrrr.. LARXENE though!! Yesss
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Oh yeah I was living for Simba's return, can't wait for one of my favorite summons to help me with Heartless mobs.
The Gummi Ship looks like they didn't do much with it from KH2? I know it's a brief glimpse but I thought there was talk of a complete overhaul and it looks the same to me.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I just saw the trailer. EXTERNALLY SCREAMING!!! Frozen got confirmed as many speculated, but Larxene is back!!! I mean, it makes sense that she'd be back with Marluxia in hindsight, but I wasn't expecting her to show up period! And the Gummi Ship stages! DUUUUUUUUDE! They look amazing!!! Then there's the whole "Aqua got corrupted by Darkness" bit, which is crazy as hell. It makes sense though, eventually just by spending time there the Darkness would eat at her and it's been years for her. And if anyone can save her, it's Riku given his own struggle and mindset, so it really works. Oh I hope we get different trailers at the SE and Sony conferences. One of them needs to have the Orchestra Trailer, I wanna see the details of that one, and hopefully we get some BH6 cutscenes too. I am feeling the hype right now!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm crying as I type this rn What Was That And Why
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I sure hope they're not going for some cliché "all good guys are turning evil one by one, Sora is the last hope to restore the light to the world" type of deal.
I swear, if the final boss rush includes beating evil Terra, Aqua and Ventus to save them from the darkness I'm done with this series. Such cringe :/
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
AQUA NOOOOOOOOOOO
Her being a Nort makes me sadder than I would've thought.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So my thoughts:
[LIST]
[*]AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
[*]Of course Frozen was going to make it in, it was only inevitable. That said, it sounds like they got Idina Menzel to reprise her role and I'm pretty shocked by that. Could be someone who's insanely good at the voice, but I doubt it. I'm not sure if that's Kristen Bell or not though...
[*]Sora can ice skate and ride on goofy's shield, just yes.
[*]Is that Simba?
[*]It seems they added a shader to Wralph so he looks digital, nice touch
[*]Gummi Ship levels look like they'll play like KH2's. As long as I can just hold down on the attack button to fire a stream of projectiles rather than mashing it and my hands getting cramped from it, we're good.
[*]I have to say, the Kingdom Shader is looking great! You definitely feel the difference in each world.
[*]Larxene + yellow eyes, yep she's 'norted.
[*]I have a feeling that keyblade (which looks like a mix between Kingdom Key and Star Seeker) is this supposed "Key to Return Hearts" or maybe a red herring for it.
[*]Aqua NOOOOO! It's never too late!
[/LIST]
I'm guessing they have even more coverage to show in 2 hours.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The Aqua plot twist straight out of a M.night shyamalan movie
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The Aqua plot twist straight out of a M.night shyamalan movie
It's poor writing (not that I expect Nomura to deliver award winning material, but this is just so bad).
Who's next? Kairi and Riku?
I want an epic war between all the good guys vs the bad ones... not Sora vs. everyone else.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
calling it right she is the 13 darkness
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's poor writing (not that I expect Nomura to deliver award winning material, but this is just so bad).
Who's next? Kairi and Riku?
I want an epic war between all the good guys vs the bad ones... not Sora vs. everyone else.
I feel like Terra has to come back as a light. You cant have both Aqua AND terra as darkness. If thats the twist (terra=good, aqua=bad) then i would be satisfied.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I love evil Aqua. So cool.
Was that Idina in the trailer?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Simba as a summon is the highlight for me, great trailer!
we still should get at least one more
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's poor writing (not that I expect Nomura to deliver award winning material, but this is just so bad).
Who's next? Kairi and Riku?
I want an epic war between all the good guys vs the bad ones... not Sora vs. everyone else.
You're assuming a great deal based on a few seconds clip.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's poor writing (not that I expect Nomura to deliver award winning material, but this is just so bad).
Who's next? Kairi and Riku?
I want an epic war between all the good guys vs the bad ones... not Sora vs. everyone else.
Moreover it just castigates all of Aqua's development in 0.2 as a Keyblade Master powerful enough to resist the pull of the darkness. Might as well just skip that game altogether if this was the intended plot twist all along, it doesn't follow from the final moments of her previous appearance at all. And having Riku be the one to save her when they have no prior relationship whatsoever is weak.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Guess Ven will haft to be stuck in that castle a little longer. How could Aqua's phantom otherwise get out of that mirror?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
aaah Larxeeene
Looks like she's been Norted, wonder what that spells for the other ex-Organization members that we haven't seen yet.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Seriously though, did no one notice this:
[SPOILER]
[/SPOILER]
edit: welp ninja'd
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's poor writing (not that I expect Nomura to deliver award winning material, but this is just so bad).
Who's next? Kairi and Riku?
I want an epic war between all the good guys vs the bad ones... not Sora vs. everyone else.
I think it's a bit unfair to talk about good and bad writing if all we have it's a trailer, honestly. It could be an illusion or maybe she's the real Aqua but she gets saved right away or blablabla. There are a million possibilities, especially because they put this in a trailer, so let's not jump to conclusion yet.
I'm actually really excited if they can somehow twist the TAV storyline.
By the way, Frozen looks awesome. Are those the original VAs? Elsa kinda sounds like Idina but at the same time it doesn't sound like her...
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm starting to worry that they're gonna reveal too much now, yes new content is great, but I feel like yellow-eyed Aqua might've been a big spoiler :/ (unless it's something that happens in the beginning of the game and/or it's just an illusion or something, then I suppose it's nothing to get too worked up about.)
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I love that Larxene is back, not too excited about her being another Darkness and I'm not sure about her placement in Arendelle. Feels a bit like they just stuck the female villain in the female plot-driven world... OTOH she might have a genuinely good (by which I mean very bad) dynamic with Elsa, so I'm open to that. I personally liked the theory that Isa would be Frozen's Darkness for the thematic richness but oh well.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's definitely not fair to call poor writing after a 5 second clip, I mean who's to say that isn't the work of a Zexion illusion?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Honestly, There are no words on what I saw today to the Frozen trailer. Also, it's Nice to see that Sven still is in the game and not removed completely. The Kingdom Hearts games have been infamous for removing quadrupedal animal sidekicks (e.g. Khan from Mulan, Djali from Hunchback) that play an integral part in the films, Pegasus from Hercules was the exception in Kingdom Hearts II but still. I Hope that Maximus and Pascal won't be written off for the Tangled world.
Also, Rapunzel and Elsa look really amazing in the trailer, not to sure about the models for Anna, Kristoff, and Olaf though, especially the latter. :/
And Marshmallow boss, need I say more.
And kudos to whoever guessed that Larxene was going to be the antagonist of the Frozen world.
I love that Larxene is back, not too excited about her being another Darkness and I'm not sure about her placement in Arendelle. Feels a bit like they just stuck the female villain in the female plot-driven world... OTOH she might have a genuinely good (by which I mean very bad) dynamic with Elsa, so I'm open to that. I personally liked the theory that Isa would be Frozen's Darkness for the thematic richness but oh well.
Same here, Isa/Saix was a shoe-in for the Frozen world given his similarities and distance to Elsa. I have a hunch that Larxene's role in the Frozen world and her being an antagonist to Elsa is very reminiscent of what she did with Namine in Chain of Memories.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm not saying it's definitely poor writing, only if it turns out that she gave in to the darkness after all that happened in 0.2. Really bad plot twist if that's not Phantom Aqua.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm starting to worry that they're gonna reveal too much now, yes new content is great, but I feel like yellow-eyed Aqua might've been a big spoiler :/ (unless it's something that happens in the beginning of the game and/or it's just an illusion or something, then I suppose it's nothing to get too worked up about.)
I'm personally hoping it's a trick played by the RoD capitalizing on Mickey's fear of what state he would find Aqua in. The whole thing just takes on a sour tone otherwise, instead of Riku meeting Aqua as equals she's positioned as a DiD for no good reason. She's the hero of BBS, don't do this Nomura.
It's definitely not fair to call poor writing after a 5 second clip, I mean who's to say that isn't the work of a Zexion illusion?
And that's a more reasonable conclusion to draw from a 5 sec clip? Folks are just responding to the material as it was presented, that's all we got and the trailer left us to draw our own conclusions. One possible conclusion is that it's the real Aqua, and if so there are consequences to that narrative. We can and should discuss those implications and if new information changes the outlook we can revise our response accordingly.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I hope Larxene slaps Elsa like she did Namine.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm personally hoping it's a trick played by the RoD capitalizing on Mickey's fear of what state he would find Aqua in. The whole thing just takes on a sour tone otherwise, instead of Riku meeting Aqua as equals she's positioned as a DiD for no good reason. She's the hero of BBS, don't do this Nomura.
And that's a more reasonable conclusion to draw from a 5 sec clip? Folks are just responding to the material as it was presented, that's all we got and the trailer left us to draw our own conclusions. One possible conclusion is that it's the real Aqua, and if so there are consequences to that narrative. We can and should discuss those implications and if new information changes the outlook we can revise our response accordingly.
Umm, no. My point with that statement was that we cannot draw conclusions from a 5 second clip, and that there's more than one possible scenario behind it. While I do agree we should discuss the possibilities, I don't believe we should be jumping the gun to condemn the writing for something we have no real information about. That's not speculation, that's jumping to conclusions.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Umm, no. My point with that statement was that we cannot draw conclusions from a 5 second clip, and that there's more than one possible scenario behind it. While I do agree we should discuss the possibilities, I don't believe we should be jumping the gun to condemn the writing for something we have no real information about. That's not speculation, that's jumping to conclusions.
The contention is that if Aqua really is a Darkness/corrupted, that points to poor writing for the sake of a pl0t tw1st, it makes no sense given her past presentation in the series and doesn't even seem logical. You're telling me at some point MX went into the RoD, found Aqua, stuck a piece of his heart in her and then left her there to be discovered by Mickey and Riku down the line? Why? It's contrived. Obviously we're missing some context but it feels like Nomura working backwards from a desired conclusion rather than feeling out his story for a natural progression. That's why it strikes us as bad writing, in addition to how it impacts Aqua' s characterization. We don't need to wait for all the information to figure that much out.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Is this a discussion forum or what? No one is saying the trailer couldn't possibly try to deceive us, but if we are to discuss what it shows... then yeah? It looks like Aqua has turned evil... and if that's the case, it's poor writing.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The contention is that if Aqua really is a Darkness/corrupted, that points to poor writing for the sake of a pl0t tw1st, it makes no sense given her past presentation in the series and doesn't even seem logical. You're telling me at some point MX went into the RoD, found Aqua, stuck a piece of his heart in her and then left her there to be discovered by Mickey and Riku down the line? Why? It's contrived. Obviously we're missing some context but it feels like Nomura working backwards from a desired conclusion rather than feeling out his story for a natural progression. That's why it strikes us as bad writing, in addition to how it impacts Aqua' s characterization. We don't need to wait for all the information to figure that much out.
Shes been in the realm of darkness for over ten years alone. We have no idea what’s been happening.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Still no sign of Kairi? Lord... this character really lost her importance in this series. Aqua seems to be the new female lead of this series.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Elsa is not a party member.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Elsa is not a party member.
Same goes for Anna, Kristoff and Olaf.
I love evil Aqua. So cool.
Was that Idina in the trailer?
Yup, it's her and also I believe that's Kristen Bell and Josh Gad for Anna and Olaf
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Is this a discussion forum or what?
Only if you're feeding the hype endlessly.
Shes been in the realm of darkness for over ten years alone. We have no idea what’s been happening.
That is true, and maybe there's a story there worth telling, but here's what we have:
0.2 Aqua affirms her status as a Master and that she will never give into the Darkness when she knows there's always a light within
This trailer ~Aqua is evil and gave into the Darkness~
If you want have a constructive conversation about how we get from point A to point B in a way that makes sense go for it, but there's no need to shut down discussion just because people have a different response to the material than you do.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The whole Aquanort twist was shocking yes. Does it make a lick of sense? We'll see. Do I like it? Not really. Honestly, I'm hoping it's temporary. Xehanort has been tearing Castle Oblivion apart for Ven, so it makes some sense why he'd need Aqua. After all, I'm sure the hollow body would be a better vessel than Aqua who has a ton of willpower to resist darkness for so long. Xehanort can probably just remove his heart and place it into the hollow vessel.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Cute trailer. :3 Aquanort looks pretty hot. XD
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The contention is that if Aqua really is a Darkness/corrupted, that points to poor writing for the sake of a pl0t tw1st, it makes no sense given her past presentation in the series and doesn't even seem logical. You're telling me at some point MX went into the RoD, found Aqua, stuck a piece of his heart in her and then left her there to be discovered by Mickey and Riku down the line? Why? It's contrived. Obviously we're missing some context but it feels like Nomura working backwards from a desired conclusion rather than feeling out his story for a natural progression. That's why it strikes us as bad writing, in addition to how it impacts Aqua' s characterization. We don't need to wait for all the information to figure that much out.
Fair enough, but somehow I doubt that they would give away such a huge spoiler in a trailer. IMO there's more than meets the eye.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So at some point, Kairi will show up in one of these trailers, right? :tongue:
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1005919740857143296
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I mean maybe Aqua fought one of the norts and lost, thus probably getting the piece of his heart, it's not like she'll give in just suddenly turn evil, plus where's Ansem the wise in all this?.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Body is not even close to ready for this.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So where was the Vol 1 text even?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So where was the Vol 1 text even?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So at some point, Kairi will show up in one of these trailers, right? :tongue:
Yeah, since this one didn't have any Xigbar I'm thinking that's the next trailer plus maybe Lea + Kairi. Remember this was the Microsoft conference, they were probably capitalizing on material with wide appeal (hence Frozen) and we'll get more original character and plot stuff for Sony's where they know the KH base will turn out.
Fair enough, but somehow I doubt that they would give away such a huge spoiler in a trailer. IMO there's more than meets the eye.
I think and hope you're right about that. There are ways to really make this work, and I'm not opposed to it if it's a constructive story element. Just don't want to see it backtracking on Aqua's position as a fierce warrior of the light. And with this series' track record with femme characters, there's some cause for concern.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I wanna see what the explanation is.
There's a chance Aqua being like that could be good given the proper ground: 0.2 always gave me the impression her internal struggle wasn't completely resolved, and if there's plausible chance she got like that then it could make 0.2 more worthwile, if it retroactively becomes a moniker for her fall.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I was okay with the January release. Now I can't not know what happened to Aqua for another 7 months?!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Omggggg! The Square Enix (Japanese) Youtube has "vol 1" marked in the trailer! Can't wait for other trailers!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Fauxqua.........................
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Are we expecting any Famitsu interviews?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Fauxqua.........................
Darqua.....................?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I wanna see what the explanation is.
There's a chance Aqua being like that could be good given the proper ground: 0.2 always gave me the impression her internal struggle wasn't completely resolved, and if there's plausible chance she got like that then it could make 0.2 more worthwile, if it retroactively becomes a moniker for her fall.
The thing is, Aqua's situation has always been framed as empowering even when in conflict. She's trapped in the RoD because of two instances of self-sacrifice in which she elected to put herself in harm's way in order to ensure that her friends and the RoL were safe. The journey she undergoes in 0.2 is an extension of that motif, with her sinking deeper and deeper into darkness but finding the resolve to carry onwards in various ways, culminating in her second sacrifice for the greater good after which she rediscovers and affirms her own energy as a force for good. Retconning that resolve into just another step on the path to corruption wastes its dramatic meaning and makes it hard to take Aqua's journey seriously: she went through all of that just to end up as a Darkness anyway? It's the same as if Riku was turned into a Darkness in KH3: it feels so unlikely based on everything we've learned about him that the writers would need to work overtime to justify it. Aqua symbolizes the light within the darkness that KH has always leaned on as a central theme, and it would be a shame to reduce her steadfast heroism into a footnote for the sake of one cheap plot twist.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I just realized..... OLYMPUS HAS CIVILIANS!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
A few thoughts of mine:
1) "Hey, Islander!" I wonder if this is a play on nationality as in Pacific Islander.
2) OMG Hercules! Great model detail and looks incredible.
3) Woody tackling Hamm is HILARIOUS.
4) The gummi ship parts definitely reminded me of KH2, but I was hoping to see the "open world" feature that was talked about awhile back.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
WHAT DID XEHANORT DO TO MY BEAUTIFUL GIRL?!
Oh, and Aqua getting norted is bad too.
But seriously, I already miss Larxene's pretty blue-green eyes, but at least I totally nailed it that Larxy would be in Arendelle!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aqua went to the darkside of the force.. Darth Aqua..
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The thing is, Aqua's situation has always been framed as empowering even when in conflict. She's trapped in the RoD because of two instances of self-sacrifice in which she elected to put herself in harm's way in order to ensure that her friends and the RoL were safe. The journey she undergoes in 0.2 is an extension of that motif, with her sinking deeper and deeper into darkness but finding the resolve to carry onwards in various ways, culminating in her second sacrifice for the greater good after which she rediscovers and affirms her own energy as a force for good. Retconning that resolve into just another step on the path to corruption wastes its dramatic meaning and makes it hard to take Aqua's journey seriously: she went through all of that just to end up as a Darkness anyway? It's the same as if Riku was turned into a Darkness in KH3: it feels so unlikely based on everything we've learned about him that the writers would need to work overtime to justify it. Aqua symbolizes the light within the darkness that KH has always leaned on as a central theme, and it would be a shame to reduce her steadfast heroism into a footnote for the sake of one cheap plot twist.
See, you're certainly not wrong: I don't know how to put it, but I can sorta see a way where this could still work. Clearly it doesn't if it is just a cheap plot twist, but if they can get the good... I dunno... spin to it, make it less like "whoops, I guess she f'd up" and more "utter despair, even the untouchable light has fallen". Like, if the focus is less about Xehanort just overpowering her and more about Aqua's internal struggle, like the prosecution of a story from BbS to 0.2, ending in KH III.
Maybe this is just me hoping too much on a concept I've played around with for years, and I'm seeing what I want to see.
I'm not gonna lie, between finally seeing some new Larxene after... man... 11 years or so, this trailer managed to get me hype again. That hasn't happened in a looong time.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
The thing is, Aqua's situation has always been framed as empowering even when in conflict. She's trapped in the RoD because of two instances of self-sacrifice in which she elected to put herself in harm's way in order to ensure that her friends and the RoL were safe. The journey she undergoes in 0.2 is an extension of that motif, with her sinking deeper and deeper into darkness but finding the resolve to carry onwards in various ways, culminating in her second sacrifice for the greater good after which she rediscovers and affirms her own energy as a force for good. Retconning that resolve into just another step on the path to corruption wastes its dramatic meaning and makes it hard to take Aqua's journey seriously: she went through all of that just to end up as a Darkness anyway? It's the same as if Riku was turned into a Darkness in KH3: it feels so unlikely based on everything we've learned about him that the writers would need to work overtime to justify it. Aqua symbolizes the light within the darkness that KH has always leaned on as a central theme, and it would be a shame to reduce her steadfast heroism into a footnote for the sake of one cheap plot twist.
Which is why I think (or SRONGLY HOPE, please KH Gods I hope you're listening) that this is a red herring. There was something similar in the 2.8 days where Terra showed up in the trailer and people obviously thought there was a chance he would be alive and roaming around the Realm of Darkness, and it turned out to be just an illusion.
But then again, "Phantom" Aqua from 0.2 was just an Aqua that was slightly 'off', whereas this one is an Aquanort specifically. Hmm...
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I think I about had a heart attack from the hype. Not too excited about Frozen, but it looks incredible I’m willing to get over it! This Bol. 1 thing, my heart, I’m gonna die from the amount of hype...
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Three possibilities
It's Phantom Aqua. Looks exactly like her, but with different eye color.
Another illusion. Simple as that.
It IS Aqua, but she won't stay that way for long.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aquanort.. Actually, considering that the "X"s put in the Organization XIII members' names were likely supposed to indicate their vessel status, Quaxa or something. I didn't see that coming at all... Okay, there's a couple possibilities I could see come from this:
1. Quaxa is real. Xehanort knew that Aqua was in the Realm of Darkness, so he decided to eliminate an serious obstacle to his plan by defeating her and putting a piece of heart inside of her. The guilt Mickey would be hit with over his failure would be immense, and it gives a window of opportunity for Terra to surprisingly be the non-corrupted or lost member of the TAV trio and managed to separate from Xehanort after his resurrection. We'll see.
2. This is a fake created by the Realm of Darkness. Golden eyes are explicitly a Xehanort trait rather than being corrupted by darkness, so unless Xehanort made an excursion to the Realm of Darkness we don't yet know about, this could just be another illusion.
Besides that, Larxene is back and a True Orgy XIII member. Makes sense given Marluxia is a part of the True Organization XIII as well, but while Marluxia's mysterious and likely sinister past as Lauriam might give some credence to him having been in on Xemnas's true plans and on board with them, we don't know enough about Larxene to draw similar conclusions. Still; would be nice if Kairi gets to get some payback for her Nobody's suffering by smashing Larx and Marly's faces in, so I'm not complaining.
This just E3 Trailer No. 1, though: look forward to seeing what awaits us tomorrow!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Three possibilities
It's Phantom Aqua. Looks exactly like her, but with different eye color.
Another illusion. Simple as that.
It IS Aqua, but she won't stay that way for long.
Well Phantom Aqua was literally Aqua with lighter eyes, I don't see how Aquanort looks any more like Phantom than regular Aqua?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
One thing I'll say, I think it being just an illusion or Phantom Aqua would be just as disappointing and bait-y, in my mind. One of the oldest tricks in the book.
Unless Phantom Aqua gaining sentience and agency doesn't foreshadow some kind of Replicants War future for the saga.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm thinking it's a fake Aqua. Everything about this is waaaaaay too suspect.
Like someone said earlier, this seems random to drop in a trailer. Why spoil this?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
At what time is that youtube thing? They say there will be a second trailer at it
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Oh yeah, another thing: Xehanort in DDD.
"Sora and another one on your list belong to me now".
He never explicitly said Terra. Huh.
At what time is that youtube thing? They say there will be a second trailer at it
In about 40 minutes I think.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Oh yeah, another thing: Xehanort in DDD.
"Sora and another one on your list belong to me now".
He never explicitly said Terra. Huh.
In about 40 minutes I think.
Omggggg mind is blown!!!!! He probably meant Aqua!!! Daaaamn
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
At what time is that youtube thing? They say there will be a second trailer at it
Has that been confirmed? Where did you hear that?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I’m in the camp that’s probably Phantom Aqua for two reasons:
1. Aqua ended up with Ansem the Wise at the end of 0.2, if she fell to darkness, wouldn’t he have too? Where’s he at?
2. Phantom Aqua messed with the internal fears and worries of Aqua and I’m assuming those she runs into; Mickey had concerns about leaving Aqua in the RoD, so her falling to darkness would be a fear of his.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
They sure did a great job on Rapunzel's model, and Elsa's look pretty great as well.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Maybe this is just me hoping too much on a concept I've played around with for years, and I'm seeing what I want to see.
I'm not gonna lie, between finally seeing some new Larxene after... man... 11 years or so, this trailer managed to get me hype again. That hasn't happened in a looong time.
I see where you're coming from, and hey, if it works for you that's cool. I think I might buy into it a little easier if we didn't have 0.2 buffering this development for Aqua. It just feels like too much of a stretch now to me.
Which is why I think (or SRONGLY HOPE, please KH Gods I hope you're listening) that this is a red herring. There was something similar in the 2.8 days where Terra showed up in the trailer and people obviously thought there was a chance he would be alive and roaming around the Realm of Darkness, and it turned out to be just an illusion.
Yeah, the RoD plays by its own rules, and if this is about investigating Mickey's feelings on a deeper level that would work for me. Like this isn't the real Aqua, but Mickey is shaken by the experience and Riku helps comfort him and reassure him that Aqua would never turn to darkness, and not to let the RoD get to him etc. It could help build that rapport between them as they continue to search for her and kind of flip the story from CoM, where Mickey was Riku's light. Now Riku has a chance to be Mickey's.
One thing I'll say, I think it being just an illusion or Phantom Aqua would be just as disappointing and bait-y, in my mind. One of the oldest tricks in the book.
It would be tropey but in service of a greater storyline which doesn't reduce anyone's agency: Mickey is confronted with his "darkness", and Riku is given the opportunity to pay forward all the guidance Mickey has given him up until that point, reaffirming his new status as a Master and how he earned it. When he and Mickey meet Aqua, it will really feel like three Masters coming together to return to the RoL and fuck Xehanort up. That's a great arc.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Has that been confirmed? Where did you hear that?
25 minutes from now (the picture was posted 35 minutes ago)
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Why are some of you mad about Aqua? She's been in the RoD for years, with little to no update on what exactly has been happening to her. She almost lost faith in 0.2, imagine having to wait even longer when you've already been trapped for 10+ years. I personally think it's awesome, and feel like some of this anger comes from "muh waifu"
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I think one reason to suspect it is the real Aqua would mainly be to give Kairi a purpose, that she will be the one to save Aqua like how Aqua cast her own light to protect her when they met in Radiant Garden. That also brings an important arc full circle and builds up both characters.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aqua might have been norted, Xehanort never said Terra or Aqua's name and seem proud of hving either one of them who could get in his way. Now getting Ven is all he wants now
or this is a fake adn Aqua somewhere else,
Another thing to member, sh'es been in the Realm of Darkness for a long time, she might had hope but things can change between Blank Points and 0.2's ending
My 2 munny
Also, going to watch Tangled and Frozen later.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Yeah, the RoD plays by its own rules, and if this is about investigating Mickey's feelings on a deeper level that would work for me. Like this isn't the real Aqua, but Mickey is shaken by the experience and Riku helps comfort him and reassure him that Aqua would never turn to darkness, and not to let the RoD get to him etc. It could help build that rapport between them as they continue to search for her and kind of flip the story from CoM, where Mickey was Riku's light. Now Riku has a chance to be Mickey's.
This feels like it's the only explanation I would be happy with, with Darqua being the worst possible scenario and Phantom Aqua somewhere in the middle. Also notice that Mickey seemed to be trapped in some kind of dark force. Wonder what that's all about.
Another concern I had was, when a character has been Norted, do they retain their past memories? In which case it would be so easy for Xehanort to grab Ventus with Aqua on his side..
On one hand, semi-Norted Braig/Isa retained their memories and consciousness as themselves, but Terranort before he was knocked out was completely controlled by MX and (presumably) had no access to Terra's consciousness.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Bad writing or not, it's another unique boss fight. As someone who plays primarily for gameplay, that's a net gain!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Ugh... something just hit me.
I think we should brace for Axel... norted. :(
I think one reason to suspect it is the real Aqua would mainly be to give Kairi a purpose, that she will be the one to save Aqua like how Aqua cast her own light to protect her when they met in Radiant Garden. That also brings an important arc full circle and builds up both characters.
I can picture the penultimate fight:
Sora w/ Roxas vs. Terranort
Rikku w/ Replica vs. Ventusnort
Kairi w/ Namine vs. Aquanort
Meh.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I do recall Xehanort having his eye on Aqua in the event Ven and Terra didnt work out. He said so in BBS.
Okay after watching it a couple of times I believe it CAN be Phantom Aqua. Not an illusion. Only because PA usually plays tricks on Aqua and plays on her fears. I feel like it was taunting Mickey and his biggest fear was that he was too late.
Perhaps Aqua saves them afterwards
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
We've fought more than one dark/heartless/phantom version of our heroes of light over the course of these games. When these evil ones appear, they also manifest dark versions of keyblades as well, sort of an extension of themselves. However, unless I'm mistaken, none of them have shown the ability to actually pick up a "real" Keyblade. We've only seen a Replica do that, and considering Vexen/Even's current disposition after being restored to his normal self, and the fact none of the original Organization aside from Xigbar knew about Aqua while they were Nobodies, I highly doubt this being a Replica Aqua. Hence, I personally think this is the real Aqua, but with some HUGE plot holes left unanswered :mad:
Also, if this is really Aqua, there might be a silver lining here. At the end of DDD, when Mickey is counting Keyblade wielders, Xehanort stated that Sora and "another on your list" already belongs to him. At first it seemed Terra was the most likely suspect, but if this is really Aqua, and Nomura has not retconned himself (shocking possibility! lol), then this would mean that Terra is not a Seeker of Darkness, which opens up a whole new slew of exciting possibilities :cool:
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Someone has the youtubelink to the presentation?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Someone has the youtubelink to the presentation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JfohG5a8y8
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JfohG5a8y8
Thaaaaaanks!!!! Herooo! So excited!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I can picture the penultimate fight:
Sora w/ Roxas vs. Terranort
Rikku w/ Replica vs. Ventusnort
Kairi w/ Namine vs. Aquanort
Meh.
I'd really hope it's not something like that. Too end-of-basically-any-shonen-anime for me. If a conflict does happen, I'd hope it happens and is resolved before the final fight. Then again, Nomura did say the ending would be difficult to swallow so...
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aquanort has been one of my secret hopes for such a long time. I always had a feeling of dread about it....
We established Xehanort really wants Ven's body and tried all he could to find it but never could. Why is that? Well because we told only Aqua can, only Aqua and Aqua alone has the right memories necessary to reach the chamber. So taking over Aqua or snatching Namine those in my mind were always the next to most logical steps for Xehanort's attempt to get to Ven. Ventus being taken by Xehanort was very clearly still on the table as the secret trailer teased that with both Sora and Ventus ominous vanishing while Xehanort's eyes flash on screen. (We know now that Sora vanishing was a hint to what would transpire in DDD along with showing us all those versions of Xehanort just before it)
Then we have the fact Xemnas constantly talks to Aqua's armor and calls it friend, at first it seemed like that was a bit of Terra but when we discovered Xemnas really is Xehanort (or at least mostly Xehanort) that put the scene in a totally more sinister light. For the only other people Xemnas has ever called friends are the Organization members, the people he planned to turn into vessels for himself.
Finally 0.2 was the last step needed as it showed the realm of darkness was whittling away Aqua's strength, it was bringing out the cracks in her heart. People for some reason tend to get the impression that Phantom Aqua was like her defeating her self doubt, it never was. Aqua specifically after beating it talks about how all it means is that the weakness and darkness in her heart has begun to bubble to the surface manifesting as that phantom and she worries it's the final signs before she herself starts to fall to darkness. She almost fades into darkness after that only for Mickey to save her just before she loses hope but the thing is this establishes a trend. Aqua had been willing to fade into darkness not once but twice, sure friends can give her temporary hope to keep that at bay but in the end she is only human and it's a reoccurring element of her character that if left alone in the dark to long that hope does fade.
Aqua being norted fits into all of this perfectly, it's an unexpected direction but it's not without proper build up and support. It's very similar to how CoM makes you think from that point on Riku will be hunky dory but establishes with just a few small hints that there are some big issues in Riku that he is still struggling with. Come KH2 we discover Riku wasn't hunky dory, like a real person he wasn't guaranteed a happy ending instead stuff happened and everything went terrible for him so instead of recover he ended up feeling lower than ever. Which ended up being a very logical direction for Riku's character it just wasn't what people were expecting when CoM ended with Riku smiling and talking about the road to dawn.
Same goes for Aqua while we'd like it if she was just happily staying strong and all we need to do is rescue her, that was never guaranteed. There was always a very real reality that something could tip Aqua into darkness or that Xehanort would seek her out as well as a means to get Ven. Turns out that's the direction Nomura has chosen to go and personally I think it works very well with what 0.2 established. With them having waited far to long to rescue Aqua, with Mickey feeling guilt and Riku being angry at hearing this.
"Mickey you're too late" that's a line meant to cut right at him and dive into what 0.2 set up, that Mickey and Yensid should never have waited as long as they did.
On top of all this Aqua's had her own crushing guilt, it's not that she just wanted to escape it's that she knows Ven's life hinges on her escape. I can very easily see after no one coming that when someone finally offered her a way out to escape she took it. It makes it more fitting for Riku to go after her as well because Riku's been in that position, giving into darkness to try and rescue a friend.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'd really hope it's not something like that. Too end-of-basically-any-shonen-anime for me. If a conflict does happen, I'd hope it happens and is resolved before the final fight. Then again, Nomura did say the ending would be difficult to swallow so...
this was the preimere
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
*sees a new trailer out*
Oooo! Yay!
*watches whole thing*
[SIZE=6]bgfbjklbgfjkngmfdjbAQUAISANORTANDFROZENISAWORLDdnbd!!!!!!
[SIZE=2][SIZE=3]Words cannot describe my hype right now, and seeing a new Fallout 76 trailer and a Dragon Ball Z/Naruto/One Piece mashup game.
[/SIZE]Hype has never been described.
The internet nor a dictionary could tell you the definition of the hype I'm feeling.
Thaaanks for your time bye.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
If you have been playing Kingdom Hearts Union X[Cross] on your mobile platform, you would know that we have foreshadowed that light will be defeated by darkness. So you may see what happens with that being foreshadowed. I actually do believe it may have some kind of a "difficult ending" that you may find a bit difficult to grasp.
this was the preimere
Haven't touched it in a long time but I have been keeping up with the story. I can see Sora saving TAV and the others only to still have Xehanort's plan succeed.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
After what Aqua's been through to not let the darkness consume her in 0.2, I may be disappointed if she got Norted. Hopefully this is a fake and the real Aqua shows up to destroy it.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I find it a bit odd that Xehanort would nort Aqua, yet still leave her in the RoD.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Star Wars tomorrow? I doubt if Frozen was their biggest reveal that they'd shown it first.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
[FONT='inherit']1. MX
2. YX
3. Ansem SoD
4. Xemnas
5. Xigbar/Braig
6. Marluxia/Lauriam
7. Larxene/somebody
8. Zexion/Ienzo(?)
9. Vanitas
10. Isa
11. Repliku/Other version of Riku
12. Luxord/Somebody(?)
13(?). ???
Assuming that Ienzo and Luxord's Somebody are amongst the 13, unless I'm very much mistaken this only really leaves us with one more slot, the one from Mickey's side. If this list is correct, then it can either be Terra or Aqua, not both. If Aqua was Norted, Terra is somewhere out there as a Light. If Terra is the final Nort, Aqua will be all right (hopefully).[/FONT]
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So this is the disney worlds so far?
Olympus
Toy story
Tangled
Monsters inc.
Frozen
Big hero 6
Ratatouille
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So this is the disney worlds so far?
Olympus
Toy story
Tangled
Monsters inc.
Frozen
Big hero 6
Ratatouille
I think Remy was only a summon or minigame in Twilight Town.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Why is something you don't like automatically "bad writing"? Do you not want there to be any conflict in this story?
The fact that Riku and Mickey experience failure in the RoD seems more heart wrenching than just stumbling upon Aqua and handing her a ticket home.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So this is the worlds so far?
Olympus
Toy story
Tangeld
Monsters inc.
Frozen
Big hero 6
Ratatouille
Ratatouille is not a world in itself in all likelihood.
To include original worlds, the list comes up to:
Olympus
Twilight Town
Cable Town(?)
Mysterious Tower
Toy Story
Tangled
Monsters Inc
Frozen
Big Hero 6
Realm of Darkness(?)
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I find it a bit odd that Xehanort would nort Aqua, yet still leave her in the RoD.
Depends on when she was Norted. She might not have been left but rather our heroes arrived just a bit too late and Aqua leaves the realm of darkness after this encounter. Or maybe Aqua now with the freedom to escape the realm whenever she pleased simply remained to wait for Mickey because a part of her heart is bitter at being left behind and she's been waiting to tear into Mickey. Alternatively she may actually be in the realm of darkness searching for something after all, all the other Norts are searching for a way to reclaim one of their darkness.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Makes sense what happen with Aqua. She's been in there so long, when I played BBS I wondered why his endgame body wise Terra instead of Aqua. Sure Terra was easy but Aqua seemed like one of those once they fall they fall hard types. She'll take some effort but once you got her, you got her. Said to see her fall though but it does make for good story. I so can't wait.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I think Remy was only a summon or minigame in Twilight Town.
Ratatouille is not a world in itself in all likelihood.
To include original worlds, the list comes up to:
Olympus
Twilight Town
Cable Town(?)
Mysterious Tower
Toy Story
Tangled
Monsters Inc
Frozen
Big Hero 6
Realm of Darkness(?)
didn't he said it's a world tho ? (during the live stream)
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
didn't he said it's a world tho ? (during the live stream)
If you're talking about the one from a couple of minutes back, then no, he never explicitly said that it is a world.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Why is something you don't like automatically "bad writing"? Do you not want there to be any conflict in this story?
The fact that Riku and Mickey experience failure in the RoD seems more heart wrenching than just stumbling upon Aqua and handing her a ticket home.
This.
I think this is a more interesting progression as it gives consequences to Mickey and Yen Sid’s actions. Regardless of their reasons, they were negligent and took too long to save her. There’s plenty of ways this twist can be fleshed out to be more than for shock. Perhaps Aqua was tired of waiting to save her friends and Xehanort offered her a way to accomplish that. So she accepted knowing that Sora would find a way to save them.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
If you're talking about the one from a couple of minutes back, then no, he never explicitly said that it is a world.
welp, my bad.
kinda hoped it was
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I’m in the camp that’s probably Phantom Aqua for two reasons:
1. Aqua ended up with Ansem the Wise at the end of 0.2, if she fell to darkness, wouldn’t he have too? Where’s he at?
2. Phantom Aqua messed with the internal fears and worries of Aqua and I’m assuming those she runs into; Mickey had concerns about leaving Aqua in the RoD, so her falling to darkness would be a fear of his.
If it is the real Aqua, Aquanort will probably have killed Ansem the Wise/made him disappear, Xehanort wouldn't leave open ends.
OR Aqua actually defended Ansem from Xehanort and got so worn down by the fight that while she managed to save Ansem she couldn't save herself.
If it is Phantom Aqua, a replica, a cruel trick of the RoD or something similar, then it has probably to do with possibly both Mickey's and Riku's mental state.
Maybe that's how Riku gets Way to the Dawn broken, by fighting that Aquanort.
I personally think it's awesome, and feel like some of this anger comes from "muh waifu"
Heh, I can see the anger issue coming at least partly from that.
Like, people were theorizing like crazy and almost trigger happy to throw either Ventus, Xion or Roxas into Xehanort's hands for the drama factor, but the moment it comes to Aqua it is suddenly bad writing and whatsoever.
I can't say I am personally too thrilled about it either because I want the good guys to all fight on the same side and not be a mere slave for Xehanort.
I find it a bit odd that Xehanort would nort Aqua, yet still leave her in the RoD.
Not if it is again one of his layered sub plans. The Keyblade Aqua picks up is Starlight from Union X, isn't it?
It may have something to do with that era, also since we by now know that Ventus is deeper connected to it than we thought.
It's also not yet sure if it is the actual Aqua.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Incredibly well said.
Absolutely interested on what lies ahead, and what is to be revealed these next few days on E3!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Another thing about Aqua.
She is literally being created from darkness. She was a walking silhouette.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This.
I think this is a more interesting progression as it gives consequences to Mickey and Yen Sid’s actions. Regardless of their reasons, they were negligent and took too long to save her. There’s plenty of ways this twist can be fleshed out to be more than for shock. Perhaps Aqua was tired of waiting to save her friends and Xehanort offered her a way to accomplish that. So she accepted knowing that Sora would find a way to save them.
Well we don't know how she got Nort, it's a trailer that people took out of context without any idea what hapened, so it wouldn't be ther for shock.
Plus wouldn't it better than it being all easy for getting everyone back without conflict?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Another thing about Aqua.
She is literally being created from darkness. She was a walking silhouette.
Phantom Aqua's "Lingering Sentiment" or something?
Like Vanitas' Remnant from BBS perhaps?
It is to be noticed that she only takes on "physical form" when she touches the Starlight Keyblade. Beforehand she's only a shadow figure, almost like Dark Sora which Riku made from Sora's Shadow in KH 1 on Hook's pirate ship.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Think what you want, and I'm happy with Dark Aqua. I do not understand where it ruins her story at 0.2. Even she can not resist the Xehanort and how much he is cool, because his plan was a success. I always thought that saving Aqua would not be so easy and Xehanort would think of how to annoy the main characters.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Well we don't know how she got Nort, it's a trailer that people took out of context without any idea what hapened, so it wouldn't be ther for shock.
Plus wouldn't it better than it being all easy for getting everyone back without conflict?
That’s what I was saying. I’ve been saying forever that Riku and Mickey’s journey didn’t need to go off without a hitch as that would just be too convenient. I just expected it to be in the form of them losing Ventus. But I’m really excited that it’s due to Aqua. I think this is going to be an awesome twist and it’s appropriate for the dark tone of this story.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Why is something you don't like automatically "bad writing"? Do you not want there to be any conflict in this story?
Conflict is only as good as the groundwork playing into it: it has to be earned or it slips into melodrama.
The fact that Riku and Mickey experience failure in the RoD seems more heart wrenching than just stumbling upon Aqua and handing her a ticket home.
There are ways to introduce obstacles to the protagonists which don't discredit previous developments, as myself and others have outlined. Why did the journey to find Aqua need to be heartwrenching? Adding drama to a plot without a consistent directive is problematic, because it makes it hard to believe that any individual component of the story will ever stick. It can always be traded out for another twist and if those twists aren't expansive then they're holding the story back from achieving a state of resonance with the audience.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I don't think Aqua was created from Darkness, she has a clearly defined form I think she was just pulling a red-eyes using the darkness to hide her appearance or because she was overflowing with darkness at that time it just made it hard to see her. When she realizes Mickey is nearby by seeing his keyblade and hearing his voice turns away from Riku and the darkness starts to dissipate. I read that scene as Aquanort simple turned off her darkness Aura so Mickey could see her properly, and so she could hammer in that she didn't take kindly to being just left here. For all she knows from the way time was passing it's been years since Mickey last saw her, "You're too late" to me reads as a clear line meant to cut Mickey for leaving her like he did.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
That’s what I was saying. I’ve been saying forever that Riku and Mickey’s journey didn’t need to go off without a hitch as that would just be too convenient. I just expected it to be in the form of them losing Ventus. But I’m really excited that it’s due to Aqua. I think this is going to be an awesome twist and it’s appropriate for the dark tone of this story.
Not to everyone, I mean this looks like this and LArxene being a Seeker upsets people even more since well, they are still on this thread.
Why stay playing KH3 at this point I wonder?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Why is something you don't like automatically "bad writing"? Do you not want there to be any conflict in this story?
The fact that Riku and Mickey experience failure in the RoD seems more heart wrenching than just stumbling upon Aqua and handing her a ticket home.
Well, to be fair I think Kingdom Hearts has had a bad plot ever since KH2 but with the revelations in DDD it just ventured into bad fanfic territory for me. Nomura is such a bad writer and I'm so happy he was taken off the FFXV project. Tabata's undercooked story was a gazillion times better than what Nomura is doing with KH or did with the Compilation of FFVII. Still, I was hoping KH3 would somehow try to aim for something closer to KH1 and BBS than KH2 or DDD. So far it seems there'll be lots of stupid twists and turns following in the footsteps of DDD. Granted, the plot isn't the main reason why I like KH in the first place.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
All right the Next Two Trailers should reveal (Jungle Book, BH6, Treasure Planet, Gummi Ships and Lea and Kairi).
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
One thing to point out about Aqua is that she's not wearing the robes of Darkness. Does that mean that she's the thirteenth vessel?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
That Keyblade she picks up, is that actually a form of Starlight from Ux or a completely new one?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
One thing to point out about Aqua is that she's not wearing the robes of Darkness. Does that mean that she's the thirteenth vessel?
The X on her shirt is black leather now I think that's meant to be her coat.
[FONT=Verdana]As for the blade I don't think so it looks to me like it's Kingdom Key D with Starseeker's texture pasted onto it, look at the keychain it's the golden mickey head of DDD which tells me it's an evolved form of KKD.[/FONT]
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
That Keyblade she picks up, is that actually a form of Starlight from Ux or a completely new one?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I like the idea that it's the Kingdom Key of the In Between realm, no idea if that matches with the lore anymore but for consistency's sake it would be cool to have the third Realm's key revealed.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This trailer was hype...... AT FIRST. The ending seriously colored my entire opinion of this trailer and disappointed me on so many levels. I can't fathom how they managed to make so many more questions and contradictions to this series all while making Xehanort one of the most idiotic characters in the series.
Aqua being possessed by Xehanort is literally the most nonsensical plot point i have ever seen in ANY game. Note, I'm not saying this because I like Aqua. No, I'm saying this because it literally shows the characters have no basic intelligence. No joke, there are things that factually make no sense within the context of everything we've seen in previous games AND in the KH3 trailers. In fact, let's list somethings I noticed within two minutes after seeing this trailer:
1) Aqua is one the most powerful characters in the entire god damn series and could probably hand most forms of Xehanort their ass without much trouble. ESPECIALLY since she already did (Ex. Vanitas[with and without the X-blade], Xigbar, Terranort, etc.). So, how exactly did she even ALLOW this to even come close to happening? (Again) ESPECIALLY after what happened to Terra and Ven (one of which recently attacked her while she was in the realm of darkness).
2) We saw her in the realm of darkness for 10 YEARS fighting and surviving without difficulty, mainly because it wasn't that long from her perspective (she confirms this when she reacts to Mickey's words in
0.2
) and because nothing there is any real threat to her. In fact, in the ending she literally solos the final boss of the game after previously fighting it with Mickey and STILL had no real issue. We see Aqua almost give into despair multiple times during the events of BBS's secret chapter as well as in0.2
and every single time she has bounced back (even going so far as to sacrifice herself and make it her responsibility to help anyone who wanders in the realm of darkness. She even says there's "no need to worry" about her in the original Japanese text). This AND Ansem the Wise was present with her by the end of KH2 to give her further companionship. So with all that said, her heart was in no way so weak that she shouldn't have been able to drive out Xehanort anyways.3) Why, after TEN YEARS did Xehanort all of a sudden decide go to the Realm of Darkness to possess Aqua? It was confirmed multiple times that he already knew she was in the RoD, apparently since KH1/
0.2
if that's when it takes place. And yes I'm referring to the Terranort scene. Ya know, the one where he specifically asked for information about VENTUS (which also seems pointless now). Anyway, all of of the different forms of Xehanort (including the original) had access to dark corridors and coats that make immune to the effects of darkness. I don't think I have to explain how illogical and foolish this makes Xehanort look. Even IF you argue that they "moved down the list" again, like they did with Sora, Aqua's heart and physical strength or far stronger than Sora's to begin with AND he knew where she was for 10 YEARS. The mere fact that Xehanort even accomplished this act despite it not even being that long in the Realm of Light (I.e- It couldn't have been more than a few days at most since the end of0.2
from Aqua's perspective specifically), proves to me that there couldn't have been that much of a struggle, period, otherwise it wouldn't of happened. I reiterate again, it's been 10 YEARS, so there's no reason to assume that Xehanort hadn't at least considered the possibility, yet we see for ourselves that nothing happened to her (Aqua) involving Xehanort between the end of BBS and blank points (the ending of KH2) so we HAVE to assume it (Aqua's possession) takes place after that ANDDream Drop Distance
otherwise Xehanort wouldn't of tried to make Sora a vessel to begin with. With all of this considered, Xehanort is an absolute fool for not acting earlier than he did if it was truly THAT easy (although to be honest, he was dumb enough to include Marluxia and Larxene in his "new" Organization despite them being the biggest traitors in the original organization, so I guess it makes sense [In the worst way possible]).4) This makes literally ALL of the Seeker's actions (the one's we've seen in the trailers) thrown into question. Let's list off some of those within this already long list:
-Why is Vanitas after Ventus' heart in KH3? If the answer is A. because it's his personal goal, that proves that Xehanort was a fool for ever enlisting this guy. If the answer is B. because it was on Xehanort's orders, then either he hasn't yet gone after Aqua (which as we discussed above, also makes him a fool), or he has some other purpose for him that was, for some unexplained reason, not even mentioned in his own reports, or any other previous game.
-Why is Larxene harassing Elsa if she has nothing to gain? If the answer is A. It's just her personality, then that means that not ONLY does Xehanort not even have proper control over the people he literally possessed (which is a contradiction by itself because how else do you explain
Aqua
nort
[who physically could not have been possessed for very long]
?), he also let's them run wild and interfere with Sora's goals for literally NO reason if he already has Aqua by that point. If the answer is B. He didn't have Aqua yet, why?? As I said above, he managed to possess her with very little time afterDream Drop Distance
(which is the earliest possible time he could have even considered the idea), especially when you compare this to this to the 10 YEARS(!!!) she's been in the RoD. This again makes him a complete and utter fool for not taking the action sooner if it was really THAT easy.-Why the HELL are Xemnas and Ansem trying to interfere with Sora's efforts to bring back Roxas? This is probably one of the most damning questions out of ALL of these because they are clearly acting with purpose in that scene. If Xehanort, was already in possession of Aqua (or at the very least set his sights on her at this point), why in the world do ANY of them give two craps about Sora bringing back Roxas? I don't even care one bit that my theory was disproven, but I cannot, I absolutely can NOT understand this scene in any capacity anymore. If anything it's just seems like a complete waste of everyone's time.
-Why did Marluxia and Xigbar feel the need to show themselves in Tangled and Hercules worlds receptively? Xigbar mentioned following some kind of "bread crumbs," (presumably to lead Sora to his lost friends) but why does he care? If all the pieces were "destined to fit together," then what purpose would they have in actively interfering and endangering Sora, in worlds that are complete unrelated to the subject at hand?
Literally all the Seeker's actions seem completely unnecessary now. Mainly cause of how easily this goal (find the 13th vessel) was to accomplish.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5) Ansem the Wise was nowhere to be seen, why?? If Aqua and Ansem were both at the dark margin, and time presumably passes much faster in the RoD (we are to assume this until there is a more detailed explanation given), then why would Ansem have not have been present in that scene? If the answer is Xehanort caused his disappearance, why? As stated above, Xehanort has literally no motive to harm anyone without reason and would only further interrupt a group that he wants to form (the Guardians of Light).
I still can't believe how much that ONE scene manages to insult my intelligence in a way the series has never done before. Nomura said ALL of our question from prior in the series would be answered (which was already pretty far fetched to begin with), but now he's got to cover all of THIS?!! I expected there to be questions left dangling from Unchained X, but I never would have I imagined to have so many questions about KH3 itself!! This is honest to god, poor writing. This is coming from a fan of the games for almost 10 years, so there's no bias here. Unexpected plot twist do NOT equal good writing, not when it creates logical fallacies.
Edit: In hindsight, I think I could've been more concise and clear about my feelings here, but the point is I personally can't see (at least at the moment) how this was a good narrative choice. That said, I'm still most definitely going buy this game, my expectations, however, have just been lowered. I'm a naturally dismissive person, so when things stop making logical sense to me, I end up just denying it all together. That's something I'm trying to work through, but my compulsions got the better of me today so I thought an explanation was in order.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Anyone else bummed that we arent getting an original story for Frozens inclusion? Felt too much like KH2.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
That Keyblade she picks up, is that actually a form of Starlight from Ux or a completely new one?
Looks to be new. It's like Kingdom Key x Star Seeker.
More like a third Kingdom Key.
Any ideas/theories how this would be possible?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I must say I'm impressed the site never crashed.
Anyone else bummed that we arent getting an original story for Frozens inclusion? Felt too much like KH2.
Nah, I think the film's story fits better into KH3's narrative. Elsa has doubts which provides Larxene an advantage over her.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Larxene trolling the sensitive Elsa should make for some great reactions. Larxene is good at getting under peoples skin, like how she made Sora go into a murderous rage, now she can bully Disney characters instead of being stuck inside an empty castle of illusion. And the ice monsters looked really good. I’m especially hyped for this world.
Tangled world with Tarzan swinging looks interesting. I wonder if her crazy hair will have other uses for platforming.
Despite it being a popular topic for fanart I was NOT expecting Dark Aqua. Wow. I'm really curious about that weird Keyblade she picked up, surely it has something to do with her transformation. I hope she gets cured in time for the final battle, I really wanted her to be on Team Light.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Oh brother. So much whining over a decidedly obvious story progression.
Dark realm bad.
Stay too long in dark realm makes heart go owwie.
Heart go owwie becomes easily manipulated.
Notorious manipulator manipulates vulnerable heroine.
Heroine pays price for history of reckless self sacrifice.
Heroine who saved many people now must be saved herself.
If this angers you or seems like a betrayal, you're either not interested in a story with stakes and conflict, or you're taking this way too personally. Riku and Mickey's adventure can't be a walk in the park, that's just not how stories WORK. If you feel like it's somehow breaking the rules previously established, here's a news flash; KH breaks it's own rules in every installment. Each one adds addendums and new rules. Nobodies have hearts, now, Ansem isn't Ansem, and Aqua was just out of framenin KH1's ending.
The rules are broken for style, surprise, and to set up new gameplay scenarios. Sorry. Look elsewhere for consistency and proper foreshadowing. It was never here. KH is entertaining for it's characters and ludicrous plot twists. If you thought it was a well written narrative, you've likely missed out on much better media.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
If it is the real Aqua, Aquanort will probably have killed Ansem the Wise/made him disappear, Xehanort wouldn't leave open ends.
OR Aqua actually defended Ansem from Xehanort and got so worn down by the fight that while she managed to save Ansem she couldn't save herself.
If it is Phantom Aqua, a replica, a cruel trick of the RoD or something similar, then it has probably to do with possibly both Mickey's and Riku's mental state.
Maybe that's how Riku gets Way to the Dawn broken, by fighting that Aquanort.
Heh, I can see the anger issue coming at least partly from that.
Like, people were theorizing like crazy and almost trigger happy to throw either Ventus, Xion or Roxas into Xehanort's hands for the drama factor, but the moment it comes to Aqua it is suddenly bad writing and whatsoever.
I can't say I am personally too thrilled about it either because I want the good guys to all fight on the same side and not be a mere slave for Xehanort.
Not if it is again one of his layered sub plans. The Keyblade Aqua picks up is Starlight from Union X, isn't it?
It may have something to do with that era, also since we by now know that Ventus is deeper connected to it than we thought.
It's also not yet sure if it is the actual Aqua.
I don't think it'd be Phantom Aqua, a trick of RoD maybe but Phantom Aqua was defeated and was a "reflection" of herself from the RoD version of the Magic Mirror, I don't think it could leave the mirror, personally.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Hey, wasn't there supposed to be some Union Cross or KH3 related thing tonight? I thought I read it was supposed to be at 7pm Eastern time and it's 7:30 Central time where I am now.
Anyone know what's up?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I must say I'm impressed the site never crashed.
Nah, I think the film's story fits better into KH3's narrative. Elsa has doubts which provides Larxene an advantage over her.
Plus, if they made a new story there'd be no real conflict, the other's are opened for new conflict but this one was SUPER HAPPY SPRING TIME at the end.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Unexpected plot twist do NOT equal good writing, not when it creates logical fallacies.
I'm not sure every criticism in your post stands to reason, but this is key. The worst part about the arguments in favor of this development is that they dismiss, out of hand, Aqua's established status and strengths as a character in order to make it work. It contributes to the larger problem with Xehanort as a villain, which is that his characterization prioritizes omniscience over compelling strategy: he isn't a thinking villain, and everybody else has to concede their intellect/respective strengths in order to make him appear successful. That makes it hard to care about them as protagonists as they're diminished in the kinds of challenges they face: instead of struggling with a coherent sort of threat, they're left hoping Xehanort doesn't get extremely lucky again so all his plans will fall into place.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aquanort: *breaks Riku's keyblade* Foolishness, Riku. Foolishness. Might...controls....everything. *eyes glow*
I want a Vergil-style Aqua boss with Riku being Dante.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aquanort does brush on the trope of Darkness (pun intended) Induced Audience Apathy. Seriously, BBS had her lose her friends, 0.2 had her walk through the KH equivalent of the Negative Zone, and now she's been Norted. Seriously, it's like taking a puppy, kicking the puppy, treating the wounds lemon juice, and then kicking the puppy again.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Hey, wasn't there supposed to be some Union Cross or KH3 related thing tonight? I thought I read it was supposed to be at 7pm Eastern time and it's 7:30 Central time where I am now.
Anyone know what's up?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Let's hit these questions in order.
1) She is not nor has ever been one of the most powerful characters in the series, and even if she was all the power in the world doesn't matter when strength in battle or even heart can have nothing to do with if you give into darkness. Many strong people have given into the darkness either because they were pushed into situations where all their strength didn't matter (like Sora in DDD) or because there was something they couldn't achieve with just strength alone (like Riku). Aqua may for example just gotten tired of waiting and desperate to finally escape and save Ventus she let the darkness in, that's just one of MANY ways her emotions and will could have lead her down this path.
2) Aqua was not "without difficulty" the realm of darkness whittled down her strength and resolve repeatedly. 0.2 is basically Aqua just being one big emotional wreck, overly consumed with the negatives in her life. Phantom Aqua is the biggest example of this it's all her doubts in physical being and though she destroys it she says all Phantom Aqua's presence means is that the darkness has worn away her courage and strength, that it's found the cracks in her heart, and she worries it's a sign that she herself will soon fall into darkness. On top of this Aqua does not bounce back alone ever. She gave into depression once and it was only the charms of her friends that saved her, save gave into depression a second time and it was Mickey who saved her. When she meets Ansem the Wise she is not happy or content and she is unstable enough that hearing about all the good Sora is doing in her stead makes her break down into tears. Aqua was not a stable person, her time in the realm of darkness surrounded only by her own darkness has been hard on her and like a real person her strength of will is not forever.
Oh and you remember CoM where Riku was smiling about how is going to walk the road to dawn and everything seems like it will go well for him? Yeah how did that end...oh that's right with the next time we see Riku he's completely thrown away his identity to live in darkness forever, is wallowing in depression and guilt, and stuck in the form of Ansem. KH's endings should never be trusted as long as there were problems that were never addressed and Aqua's story in 0.2 doesn't resolve her issues it gives her hope...and that's the worst thing ever. Because while hope can be a good thing it can also be the thing that bring a fall like it did with Riku. We see this bright loving boy promised power and adventure that never comes causing him to turn to darkness to achieve the prizes that he felt he had been denied.
3) Given his line in DDD it sounds like he actually acquired Aqua during DDD like he tried to do Sora "Sora and another on your list NOW belong to me". As for why he finally went after her any number of reasons like perhaps he legit doesn't have the ability to find her without time travel that could warp him exactly to where she was, ergo he'd have to wait for Young Xehanort's arrival with her. OR he may have seized Aqua now because all his other options to get Ven's body have been exhausted. Converting Aqua may also have been seen as difficult and thus Aqua was a distant backup the same way he treated Sora, he tried to use his best friend, his nobody, and a replica of Sora before he finally went for Sora. Fact is there are plenty of possible reasons for why this happened now.
4) - ???? I don't get what you're saying, there is no thing wrong with Vanitas wanting back the other half of his power and certainly nothing Xehanort would have reason to be against
- Larxene is a horrible person who likes to inflict pain but given they are investigating things that have the power to give life and form in an attempt to reclaim a lost darkness Elsa is a pretty good target. Her ice powers aren't simply a mastery of ice, she can create life from literally nothing with her magic.
- In TT they are trying to convert Sora to darkness, they haven't given up on him we knew as much when we saw the other part of that Twilight Town scene and Xemnas is literally trying to goad Sora into using darkness. While also making him lose hope in any other potential way to restore someone like Roxas that wouldn't rely on him giving into darkness. Xehanort won't need to get this other mysterious darkness if he can just turn Sora to his side like he tried in DDD.
- Xigbar has his own goals but honestly its in Xehanort's interest that Sora get stronger, after all the 13 vs 7 doesn't work unless the people clashing are of sufficent strength that's why they spent most of BBS babying Ventus. so there is nothing strange about that. As for Marluxia he has little reason to hide and plenty of reason to want to attack Sora given you know Sora killed him and ruined his plans in CO. Maybe he still wants to make Sora his puppet who really knows.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Anyone else bummed that we arent getting an original story for Frozens inclusion? Felt too much like KH2.
Not reall,
1. then ther wouldn't be no ice world and we have no idea what's to come in the movie squeal
2. what else Frozen could do when we don't have much on the sequel or a og story to explain how the whole place was frozen again, Elsa wouldn't lose control again.
3. Can we stop harping on KH2 for following the movie plot now, it's getting old fast.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So yall talked to death about Aqua, so I don't need to talk about other than I don't like it lol. If its true, I agree with the sentiment it just seems like breaking the only strong female character just so she can be saved even more than it already has been lol. But whatever, I guess we don't know.
So what I will say I'm pissed about so far: Why is there no damn party members in Frozen? I'm gonna flip if we get none, that makes no sense lol.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm not sure every criticism in your post stands to reason, but this is key. The worst part about the arguments in favor of this development is that they dismiss, out of hand, Aqua's established status and strengths as a character in order to make it work. It contributes to the larger problem with Xehanort as a villain, which is that his characterization prioritizes omniscience over compelling strategy: he isn't a thinking villain, and everybody else has to concede their intellect/respective strengths in order to make him appear successful. That makes it hard to care about them as protagonists as they're diminished in the kinds of challenges they face: instead of struggling with a coherent sort of threat, they're left hoping Xehanort doesn't get extremely lucky again so all his plans will fall into place.
I agree I may have gone off a bit, but yes, that was the main point of the argument. To be honest, I was frustrated because I really do care about the narrative and the characters (especially ones that are so strong to me). For anyone else that responds, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on any of you, I just needed to get my raw thoughts out about it so they wouldn't further gnaw at my enjoyment of a series I'm so attached to. I'll try not to be so dismissive next time. Please understand.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So yall talked to death about Aqua, so I don't need to talk about other than I don't like it lol. If its true, I agree with the sentiment it just seems like breaking the only strong female character just so she can be saved even more than it already has been lol. But whatever, I guess we don't know.
So what I will say I'm pissed about so far: Why is there no damn party members in Frozen? I'm gonna flip if we get none, that makes no sense lol.
I agree. If they can make Mike Wazzoski into a party member they could have easily done it with any of the Frozen characters.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I'm not sure every criticism in your post stands to reason, but this is key. The worst part about the arguments in favor of this development is that they dismiss, out of hand, Aqua's established status and strengths as a character in order to make it work. It contributes to the larger problem with Xehanort as a villain, which is that his characterization prioritizes omniscience over compelling strategy: he isn't a thinking villain, and everybody else has to concede their intellect/respective strengths in order to make him appear successful. That makes it hard to care about them as protagonists as they're diminished in the kinds of challenges they face: instead of struggling with a coherent sort of threat, they're left hoping Xehanort doesn't get extremely lucky again so all his plans will fall into place.
At this point, he seems to have "evolved" from a "mere" Villain Sue... to an all-out Black Hole Sue.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Because Aqua falling to darkness runs her character, yeah no. Strong character aren't invincible, I thought all the media we grown up to we have that judgement than "OMG, the ruined Aqua, poor writing , poor!" No strong character is untouchable, you can all the power in the world, it doesn't make you strong where it counts, your heart
How you really feel, or when the 'armor' you wear, the mask on your face, once it's stripped away, the facade you carry through hardship is gone.
No one says the sereis is perfect, the writing is treated like a form a media at this point, the fact this gone on for a lot of pages and we have no context if that's Aqua or not says volumes
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I agree. If they can make Mike Wazzoski into a party member they could have easily done it with any of the Frozen characters.
My boyfriend immediately pointed out we never saw Elsa with her fancy dress so maybe she will at least join after that? I hope so lol
Because Aqua falling to darkness runs her character, yeah no. Strong character aren't invincible, I thought all the media we grown up to we have that judgement than "OMG, the ruined Aqua, poor writing , poor!" No strong character is untouchable, you can all the power in the world, it doesn't make you strong where it counts, your heart
How you really feel, or when the 'armor' you wear, the mask on your face, once it's stripped away, the facade you carry through hardship is gone.
No one says the sereis is perfect, the writing is treated like a form a media at this point, the fact this gone on for a lot of pages and we have no context if that's Aqua or not says volumes
Maybe the volumes it speaks is that there are like 5 female characters in the whole damn series and they are constantly put into positions where they are damseled or their agency is taken away.
I fully expected Aqua to fight alongside the group and help save her friends and now they are at least showing she is possessed? Like nah, that takes away all her agency just for a twist. Its just annoying. People already addressed your last point anyway, why would we just pretend that this is a fake-out when their is no evidence of that? If they show it, we should critique it as such till we have more info.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Magnus,And what about KH2 is wrong?
She had a great story.
And in KH1, Kairi in general was subject to rescue and in terms of interesting characters there were problems.
But no one has anything to worry about.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So yall talked to death about Aqua, so I don't need to talk about other than I don't like it lol. If its true, I agree with the sentiment it just seems like breaking the only strong female character just so she can be saved even more than it already has been lol. But whatever, I guess we don't know.
So what I will say I'm pissed about so far: Why is there no damn party members in Frozen? I'm gonna flip if we get none, that makes no sense lol.
I agree with the latter part of your first statement: Being that we currently just do not have enough information yet to get a firm grasp on exactly what's happening there in the RoD between Riku, Mickey and presumably Aqua. We also don't know what has led these masters to this moment, who they've crossed paths with in the RoD, Aqua's journey since we've last seen her, etc.
And to your second statement, I'd wonder if maybe the gameplay we've seen so far might be before we get connected with the Frozen cast. I wouldn't be totally opposed to a world or two with just Sora Donald and Goofy either! Great thoughts though.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I was never much of a fan of Aqua's English voice in BBS. It got better in 0.2.
But the way she delivered "you're too late" was perfect, and felt like a punch in the gut.
And I think KHI's obsession with "strong females" is clouding their assessment of this development.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I agree with the latter part of your first statement: Being that we currently just do not have enough information yet to get a firm grasp on exactly what's happening there in the RoD between Riku, Mickey and presumably Aqua. We also don't know what has led these masters to this moment, who they've crossed paths with in the RoD, Aqua's journey since we've last seen her, etc.
And to your second statement, I'd wonder if maybe the gameplay we've seen so far might be before we get connected with the Frozen cast. I wouldn't be totally opposed to a world or two with just Sora Donald and Goofy either! Great thoughts though.
I guess I just think they ended Aqua's journey in 0.2 with her reinvigorated and then we literally saw her post kh2 with Ansem the Wise in Blank Points, so it hasn't been long since we saw her at all tbh lol. She shouldn't have fallen this fast unless some crazy crap happened. Which it may have obviously...
See, I don't inherently mind that idea when it makes sense, like Monstro or Wonderland in KH1. But Elsa has magical powers so it would be sorta ridiculous if she doesn't get to fight and like Eugene gets to and all he has is a frying pan lol.
Thanks ha, I do agree with your thoughts as well if that isn't mostly obvious.
I was never much of a fan of Aqua's English voice in BBS. It got better in 0.2.
But the way she delivered "you're too late" was perfect, and felt like a punch in the gut.
And I think KHI's obsession with "strong females" is clouding their assessment of this development.
I mean I'm sure people would be freaking out if any character who has always been shown to be fairly strong on the light just legit suddenly was shown to be evil. It doesn't really make sense with the context we have thus far in general tbh.
The female assessment is mostly relevant cuz there is such a small number of female characters, its like...there is no variety. Just damsels and villains? Like even if a dude or 2 fall to darkness suddenly, or are villains, or are damsels (like Ven at this moment) thats cool cuz there are also plenty of heroes with different approaches and such. Idk. Its nothing new, its just annoying if that's the direction they are going with her character.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Ansem: "The other Twilight Town is just data."
So Sora's reason for going to the old mansion could be to give Roxas a body by sending him to the digital Twilight Town and back, or at least try to give Roxas some kind of life by having him live there. I can see Ansem finishing his line with something like "It cannot replace the real thing and give Roxas the life you want him to have. It would be a prison." or something like that.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Damn did that trailer more than make up for the delay
Simba returning as a Summon is amazing!!! Gives me hope for the return of the Pride Lands in a future game.
Nice that the Frozen cast is back. It looks pretty gorgeous.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Another thing I noticed in the Aquanort scene, Riku seems to be holding his arm/wrist like he’s been hurt pretty bad. Could this be where he breaks Way to Dawn? If so, I assume the scene from the “Don’t think Twice†trailer happens pretty soon after. If that’s the case, Mickey and Riku don’t seem too concerned with Aquanort? Or this stuff just doesn’t phase them anymore lol
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I was never much of a fan of Aqua's English voice in BBS. It got better in 0.2.
But the way she delivered "you're too late" was perfect, and felt like a punch in the gut.
And I think KHI's obsession with "strong females" is clouding their assessment of this development.
I think everyone's idea of strong is basically being badass in their eyes, hell they don't care about Kairi being in the story, mostwant to her a badass, to hell with character, the site mostly hates her
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
My boyfriend immediately pointed out we never saw Elsa with her fancy dress so maybe she will at least join after that? I hope so lol
Maybe the volumes it speaks is that there are like 5 female characters in the whole damn series and they are constantly put into positions where they are damseled or their agency is taken away.
I fully expected Aqua to fight alongside the group and help save her friends and now they are at least showing she is possessed? Like nah, that takes away all her agency just for a twist. Its just annoying. People already addressed your last point anyway, why would we just pretend that this is a fake-out when their is no evidence of that? If they show it, we should critique it as such till we have more info.
And why can not they save her until the end of the finals, and in the end she will fight? It always seemed to me that if Riku just found and saved Aqua it would be too stupid to be banal. We do not even know how it became nort.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I She shouldn't have fallen this fast unless some crazy crap happened. Which it may have obviously...
I think that's what's most exciting to me. They're showing a fair bit of content, but I believe we haven't even scratched the surface. For example, the D23 2017 Toy Story Cutscenes vs. D23 2018 Demo, there is so much more happening in the narrative that they'd left out. There is so much happening that we just don't have all the details on yet!
And concerning party members, I guess well just have to wait and see!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
And why can not they save her until the end of the finals, and in the end she will fight? It always seemed to me that if Riku just found and saved Aqua it would be too stupid to be banal. We do not even know how it became nort.
I think it made perfect sense to save her like mid-game cuz they still needed her to find Ven? I guess I dunno why that's dumb lol. Not everything has to be this complicated all the time, but I guess it looks like it might lol.
I think everyone's idea of strong is basically being badass in their eyes, hell they don't care about Kairi being in the story, mostwant to her a badass, to hell with character, the site mostly hates her
I can only speak for myself in this situation but this doesn't even remotely describe how I feel. I think a woman just being badass is a cheap way to make them "strong" they need to have emotional depth and vulnerability as well. And some women can be talented in not fighting like Namine and still be interesting. Though she was also sorta a damsel lol.
But yea, its really about the constant taking of agency and needing saving for me that's annoying. Like its just cliche on top of not being great for the character's themselves.
My only issue with Kairi is well, yeah, she isn't relevant in any game where she isn't kidnapped for most of it lol. Then she just doesn't appear at all. I would love her to do more, not just necessarily fight but since that is what they are sorta doing already? I won't complain.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Another thing I noticed in the Aquanort scene, Riku seems to be holding his arm/wrist like he’s been hurt pretty bad. Could this be where he breaks Way to Dawn? If so, I assume the scene from the “Don’t think Twice†trailer happens pretty soon after. If that’s the case, Mickey and Riku don’t seem too concerned with Aquanort? Or this stuff just doesn’t phase them anymore lol
As for not being concerned Mickey seemed fairly concerned, but Riku I think we are just seeing a sign of his growth. The old Riku would get down in the dumps and brood over something like that...but now he's trying to be like Sora. So instead of let it eat away at him he's just taking a Sora attitude, his mission to save Aqua from the darkness hasn't changed all that's changed is the darkness he has to save her from.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I think it made perfect sense to save her like mid-game cuz they still needed her to find Ven? I guess I dunno why that's dumb lol. Not everything has to be this complicated all the time, but I guess it looks like it might lol.
I can only speak for myself in this situation but this doesn't even remotely describe how I feel. I think a woman just being badass is a cheap way to make them "strong" they need to have emotional depth and vulnerability as well. And some women can be talented in not fighting like Namine and still be interesting. Though she was also sorta a damsel lol.
But yea, its really about the constant taking of agency and needing saving for me that's annoying. Like its just cliche on top of not being great for the character's themselves.
My only issue with Kairi is well, yeah, she isn't relevant in any game where she isn't kidnapped for most of it lol. Then she just doesn't appear at all. I would love her to do more, not just necessarily fight but since that is what they are sorta doing already? I won't complain.
There is a possibility that Ven also became a nort and maybe it was a bait so Aqua was seized by Xehanort and became nort.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aqua falls to darkness but just for a few moments before her friends help her. Then Team Light continues on with the adventure. But Xehanort travels back in time, gets Dark Aqua from that brief period, and brings her to Team Dark. Could it work?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Ansem: "The other Twilight Town is just data."
So Sora's reason for going to the old mansion could be to give Roxas a body by sending him to the digital Twilight Town and back, or at least try to give Roxas some kind of life by having him live there. I can see Ansem finishing his line with something like "It cannot replace the real thing and give Roxas the life you want him to have. It would be a prison." or something like that.
I would not want Roxas to be forever stuck in the digital twilight.
Well, if you remember the wallet for money Olett, maybe Data can and in reality exist.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Can we actually still consider blank points still canon?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So hopefully this means Xion is a Light.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Can we actually still consider blank points still canon?
what? obviously.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This might not be the right place to ask, but can someone make me an Aquanort avatar?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This might not be the right place to ask, but can someone make me an Aquanort avatar?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I can do one up in a bit when I can get to my computer.
Forgive me, I'm on a big DMC kick after 5 got announced.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This might not be the right place to ask, but can someone make me an Aquanort avatar?
Lol, I guess I am calming down about the revelation. I hope others are too. I guess I'm just along for the ride at this point anyway soooo.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Found a leak from the next trailer.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
This.
I think this is a more interesting progression as it gives consequences to Mickey and Yen Sid’s actions. Regardless of their reasons, they were negligent and took too long to save her. There’s plenty of ways this twist can be fleshed out to be more than for shock. Perhaps Aqua was tired of waiting to save her friends and Xehanort offered her a way to accomplish that. So she accepted knowing that Sora would find a way to save them.
Right, there has to be some flip flopping with the character roles and conflicts. Otherwise, we've been waiting all these years for a climax that the opening cutscene of KHDDD already showed us.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
what? obviously.
Is that the same thing as bbs vol. 2 trailer? Or the secret episode?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Thanks, Fudge. And if ya can, can ya edit it a bit so she looks like Corrupt Vergil?
I had to make the veins darker show they would show better. I also lowered the saturation on the whole thing a tad and made her eyes brighter for extra spookiness.
| Forgive me, I'm on a big DMC kick after 5 got announced. |
I never would have guessed.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Damn Fugde, good job yo!!!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
You're welcome, and here you go!
I had to make the veins darker show they would show better. I also lowered the saturation on the whole thing a tad and made her eyes brighter for extra spookiness.
*sees every comment you've made in the past few days filled with nothing but motivation*
I never would have guessed.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
It's poor writing
I don't think it's poor at all. She's been in the RoD for eons, so it only makes sense that the darkness finally got to her. And it's been alluded to as well in DDD.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Gosh, the community sure is salty again throwing "ugh! bad writing!" everywhere
that's so not the case, I didn't expect even the slightest bit that out of all characters now AQUA could be a SoD. AQUA........ seriously! It's a shocking hint they throw at us, but without the context it can be anything! and this is the beauty of trailers. Infinity War trailers were extremely ambiguous and when I rewatched them I saw that they in fact told us nothing about what actually happened in the movie. Let KH3 breathe a little y'all, the plot will be exciting
and as if KH didn't have plot cliches or character cliches till now, it's a KH thing, after all this years accept it
also bad writing would be creating an invincible Keyblade Master who never once can succumb to darkness because she has Plot Armour. Not even Sora was invincible like that. I find it very humane and natural if they want to introduce a dark!Aqua for real now
anyway these were my two cents and now
HOLY SHIT
LARXENE OUR GIRL WOW, I bet Darkos will be on cloud 9 xD
I find it interesting they talk about another Riku which to me implies that Xehanort might have used Riku to Nort Aqua and they were both present there. I mean that absolutely WOULD be something Xehanort would do....take someone Aqua trusts, cares about, desperately wants to see, and then when her guard is down have him get her to give into darkness or hell just Nort her when her back is turned or something. Aqua has shown to not be terribly observant while her back is turned.... (Vanitas conked her from behind and Terra turns into Xehanort with his voice dropping 3 octaves lower and she didn't bat an eye at that either) But yeah I'd bet anything that Aqua charged with darkness powers is the one who destroyed Riku's keyblade. It makes BBS some kind of funny foreshadowing since Vanitas had so many Riku parallels and she shattered his X-blade with the power of friendship.
People just LOOK at how interesting just this one interpretation is, among who knows how many others, and throw away the "bad writing" fixed idea
Hirokey, now that you mentioned BBS in all this as some kind of foreshadowing, I am super-excited for whatever's to come, thanks for this observation!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Dug that Frozen was revealed. Never really saw a reason to exclude it since it was one of Disney's more recent cash cows. Sora's a bit quippy in the cutscene shown which is something I appreciate. I wanna use the icy gauntlets and greaves. And the sledding section looks so fun. I kinda hope that's an option for going down any mountainous areas. Though it just looks like a mini-game which I'm also cool with. Also Simba fire summon. AH! And there's a point to Larxene now! And I do like what they're going for here with Elsa possibly being corrupted by her power which would lead her the path to darkness. Now that I think about, I should really watch Frozen.
The characters look on freaking point. Like they were allowed to used the models from the movies and improved them.
Is it weird that I want it to be the real Aqua so Mickey can get comeuppance for leaving her in the RoD? Though it's probably Phantom Aqua or a Replica.
Only thoughts I have on the new keyblade is that maybe it's the Kingdom Key D but improved or leveled up or evolved or something? I only say that because it has the same chain as it.
And hot damn, we finally have a release date.
Only bit I didn't like were the lack of sound effects from the halfway point on.
I've had this thought for a while and never brought it up until Forsaken Shadow's comment reminded me of it. Do you think Xehanort will bring back the Rikuplica or Riku possessed by Ansem SoD? I'd most likely wager the the former here.
EDIT:
As for the whole "Ugh, bad writing" thing: I think you can only make that conclusion once you see the finished product and figure out whether it makes sense within the logic of the universe and the characters. Since we're only getting trailers until January of next year, all we can do is speculate. Oh, and don't bother people working on it on social media. I still can't believe that's a thing that people do.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
God I loved that trailer. I'm so glad Frozen has finally been confirmed even though we all knew it was coming. As cheesy as that last line at the end of the trailer was, I think having Aqua submit to Xehanort is a really interesting direction to take with the plot. And i'm so glad Larxene is back!
Gotta say that I was really surprised to see it pop up at the Xbox conference too. That just made the whole trailer even better imo, because I wasn't expecting it at all. Can't wait to see what other trailers Square has planned for us!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Aqua is my #1 favorite character of the entire series. This trailer broke my heart, but why are people so quick to call it bad writing or nonsensical?
Yes, Aqua is a VERY strong person. I believe she is one of the strongest wielders currently alive and she has a very strong light. But one of my favorite things about 0.2 was seeing her slowly break down and losing hope little by little, piece by piece. I ATE that up.
We know Aqua is strong, but Aqua is not insensible. Yes, she sacrificed herself to save her friends, but it's not like she made that decision lightly or happily. In Birth by Sleep, we saw her ready to give up and was going to allow herself to be falcon punched into oblivion until Terra and Ven briefly showed up to give her hope. Could Aqua have taken on all those Darksides and won? Yeah. She's pretty strong. But did she have any will left to do it? No.
We see her travel a bit through the Realm of Darkness and then she encounters Red Eyes/Dark Hide. Is Aqua strong enough to defeat it? Yes. But she's EXHAUSTED. She lays down on the floor for a long while trying to catch her breath and focus her vision before she's able to stand back up and keep fighting.
Next, we see her wondering in Castle of Dreams. The entire time she's there, she's telling herself to stop thinking about the past, but keeps thinking about the past anyway. When she reaches the end, she finds phantom Terra and is devastated that he's not real (despite surely knowing he can't be real). She tries to use that as a silver lining hoping the people of the fallen worlds didn't fall to darkness too.
Next, we see her encounter phantom Ven. Once again, she's devastated that he isn't real and thinks about where she left him, guilty and apologetic about his circumstances and reasserting her promises to him.
Next, she encounters the literal embodiment of everything she hates about herself three times. She's positive that it was trying to destroy her, and she admits the darkness has found a way into her heart. She didn't defeat that inner darkness, she just destroyed the mirrors it created to keep her trapped and that's about it. It's still probably hanging out somewhere to be honest
Next, we see her encounter Terra and Ven again. Right here she basically says, "I don't care if I'm going crazy, I'm going to chase these ghosts because I miss my friends." No stable person chases imaginary phantoms when they ABSOLUTELY know they aren't real and will probably cause her to fall deeper into darkness. Her actions right here are no different than Sora chasing his dreams to his doom.
Right before she catches up to them, she has to fight another Darkside and once again, we see how absolutely exhausted she is. She's been fighting nonstop just to catch up with some illusions.
When she finally catches up with the illusions, Ven can't speak to her and Terra can barely reassure her that he and Ven are safe. Suddenly Terra isn't Terra anymore and attacks her and Ven. Aqua's exhaustion finally overtakes her (and probably from being squeezed by dark hands???) and she once again gives up and is going to allow darkness to take her then and there. It's Mickey's well time rescue that pulls her up again and gives her the strength to fight just a little longer. Having Mickey there with her does wonders for her mood.
Ah, but sadly for her, she gets ripped away from Mickey and is once again, left all alone fighting by herself for who knows how long. She just lays on the beech, showing once more how tired of everything she is and she falls to the darkness.
Next we see her, she's with Ansem the Wise, crying over hearing Sora's name again.
It is perfectly reasonable for Aqua to have been defeated and overcome by Xehanort. Aqua is strong, but Aqua is TIRED. Why wait so long to come for her? Technically, he didn't wait. He just couldn't find her. He found her through Terra once and tried to fool her into getting information, but that failed. We saw Xemnas talking to her armor and calling it a 'friend'. He's probably been searching for her the entire time because he needs her to get to Ven. If Aqua's heart is weak and susceptible to darkness like she herself implied, then he wouldn't hesitate to use her as a back up either.
All that said, I can't say for sure if that's actually Aqua or not. Her entrance was kind of weird. The shadowy Aqua has no clothes except for her shoes. Shadow Sora and Shadow Roxas had their clothes on completely covered in darkness, why would they remove Aqua's clothes and then have them appear only as the darkness fades away??? Also, I believe Riku breaks his keyblade during their fight against her. In that cutscene, neither Mickey or Riku look particularly bothered that the one they came to save has been norted. Also, Riku mentions "the other me". If that is applicable to what just happened, maybe he believes he also has a shadow self somewhere (and he technically saw one in DDD)
Another thing about this Aqua is that even as the darkness fades away, it appears as if some of her skin is still covered in the shadow gunk. Maybe the darkness hasn't completely dissipated yet, but you can see it just above her sleeves. I am totally on board with this being a manifestation of Mickey's fears and guilt. They keep telling us Mickey is guilty, but seeing him face to face with his guilt would be prettttty sweet. Aqua is the one he could have done the most to help, but he didn't.
If it is actually Aqua, I don't think it's bad writing, impossible, or a retcon. Aqua has been unstable since she fell into the dark realm. Her biggest character development that has yet to pass is accepting light and darkness go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other. I'm not sure where this norting will lead, and it MAKES ME SAD, but I don't think it's bad writing. Not yet, we need to see more. Right now, I doubt it's a cheap plot twist, just like Xehanort going after Sora was not a cheap plot twist.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
My heart... is broken.
Aqua's been my favorite KH character for a long time. Seeing her struggles, her self-sacrifice for the sake of her friends, and how much she fought for the light made me champion her as my favorite. But... seeing her suffer the same fate as Terra, who she fought so hard to save, is just heart-wrenching. Not joking when I say, I cried. After everything she;s been through, more than any other character, she deserved a happy ending.
But, no. Because even with all the Disney magic, our heroes don't get a happy ending. All I can hope is that either this is a fake, an illusion, or a replica. But I fear that we might have to take on my beloved Aqua. There has to be a way to save her.... don't do me a J.K. Rowling and kill off a beloved character, Normura! Let us save her!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Y'all act like this Aqua scene is from the end of the game lol.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So that was part 1 according to the japanese youtube.
I think we're definitely getting a trailer at each conference and a new world reveal as well in each trailer.
I also get the feeling we'll also get world reveals at TGS and Jump Festa
Which means 4-5 more worlds to go.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Alright, so my theory on the trailer ending: Xehanort did go and grab the Phantom Aqua from the ROD to use as a vessel. It’s not the actual Aqua, but it’s a being of darkness so it more or less fits the bill for a vessel, like Vanitas does by default. Xehanort did say that “Sora and another on your list belong to me nowâ€. While we’ve assumed with 99% certainty he’s just talking about Terra, what if he’s referring to Aqua’s dark counterpart who he maybe thinks is the real Aqua, and not even considering Terra at all since he’s effectively dead right now?
Just conjecture. The “another on your list†is pretty obviously Terra, but eh. Just conjecture.
And I’m just saying, Aqua being revealed as a Xehanort vessel is a pretty huge twist. Being shown in a major trailer like this makes it pretty clear this is misdirection. Come on, guys.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
What if Aqua is the Seeker of Darkness for San Fransokyo? She and OG Baymax both made the same kind of sacrifice for their friends and now they are both corrupted. It would also explained why they haven’t shown it yet; they wanted to wait until they were ready to reveal Aqua as a Seeker of Darkness.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
What if Aqua is the Seeker of Darkness for San Fransokyo? She and OG Baymax both made the same kind of sacrifice for their friends and now they are both corrupted. It would also explained why they haven’t shown it yet; they wanted to wait until they were ready to reveal Aqua as a Seeker of Darkness.
Nooooo it would hurt so bad I can't even think about her being a Darkness in a specific world lol.
Y'all I guess I have convinced me to at least calm down and accept it tho, I still don't like the...implications of it but like I said before, I guess I just gotta accept it and go along for the ride. It can make sense if they write it well enough...
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Whoo. Finally made it home after a heavily delayed 7 hour train ride. Wanted to touch on some of Hirokey's points because I think they're cogent but I wanted to be able to do so in a way that addresses them with equal attention, and that just wasn't the environment for it + being on a phone makes longform dialogue difficult.
1) She is not nor has ever been one of the most powerful characters in the series, and even if she was all the power in the world doesn't matter when strength in battle or even heart can have nothing to do with if you give into darkness. Many strong people have given into the darkness either because they were pushed into situations where all their strength didn't matter (like Sora in DDD) or because there was something they couldn't achieve with just strength alone (like Riku). Aqua may for example just gotten tired of waiting and desperate to finally escape and save Ventus she let the darkness in, that's just one of MANY ways her emotions and will could have lead her down this path.
This puts a lot of concepts on the table which might reflect a need for a conversation too expansive for this thread, but it basically begs the question: what is strength in Kingdom Hearts? Above all, the series pretty objectively prioritizes strength of Heart-- yes, strong-willed individuals can be compromised, but how and why that happens makes all the difference. We have to remember that Sora couldn't be captured as a Darkness using any ordinary means: Xehanort had to develop a highly convoluted mechanism which relied on Sora diving into a plane of existence (or more like suspended existence) where MX could bend the rules to trick Sora's heart into a state of particular vulnerability, which furthermore relied intrinsically on exploiting the subconscious pain/darkness Sora carries from other hearts he's harboring within himself sapping away at him and pushing him right into MX's grasp.
When we compare and contrast this with Aqua, we run into a series of problems stemming from both who she is and her history as a character. To start with, there are some superficial grounds for arguing that Aqua has been compromised due to her stay in the Realm of Darkness, that it has whittled down her willpower to nothing and that she was therefore susceptible to Xehanort's influence. Without context, that would seem to be similar to the situation with Sora in DDD and might be believable, so let's add some context. In the first place, the reason MX was able to manipulate Sora is precisely because Sora had no idea what was going on: he didn't acknowledge that he himself was vulnerable and couldn't successfully ward off Xehanort because he couldn't see the bigger picture. This was largely a result of Sora being placed in the Realm of Sleep without understanding its mechanics so-to-speak, having no longstanding experience with its unique temporal and existential qualities. That is not true for Aqua: over the course of 0.2, we saw her encounter some of the darkest corners of the RoD as it pertains to her own vulnerabilities, and while I'm going to touch on that more firmly later, it stands to reason that Xehanort wouldn't be able to use her own ignorance against her the way he did with Sora in DDD; Aqua probably has more experience with the Realm of Darkness than Xehanort does at this point. Aqua obviously also isn't compromised by the pain of hosting other hearts, and there's another comparison between her heart and Sora's which is worth recognizing: she has at least as much, if not more, light than him. While this isn't explicitly confirmed anywhere, it's a pretty good bet: Xehanort planned to use her as a backup in case Ven didn't clash with Vanitas to form the X-Blade, which requires a pure heart of light against a pure heart of darkness. If she was a potential, if not exact, match, then her heart must be overwhelmingly composed of light, possibly approaching PoH status. Xehanort uses darkness to latch onto people: that's reflected in all of his (known) selections for the new Organization, and it's the reason why he was able to possess Terra-- by fostering the darkness within him. Xehanort can take over the hearts of people with light even if there's a sliver of darkness, but it's the path of most resistance: that's why he had to go so far to capture Sora, therefore it likely would take at least as much work if not more to capture Aqua.
If it's a question of strength in terms of resisting Xehanort's heart, Aqua's one of the least likely candidates to fall to him, so there has to be a really strong justification for how and why that happened. Let's talk about why her time in the Realm of Darkness isn't a good one.
2) Aqua was not "without difficulty" the realm of darkness whittled down her strength and resolve repeatedly. 0.2 is basically Aqua just being one big emotional wreck, overly consumed with the negatives in her life. Phantom Aqua is the biggest example of this it's all her doubts in physical being and though she destroys it she says all Phantom Aqua's presence means is that the darkness has worn away her courage and strength, that it's found the cracks in her heart, and she worries it's a sign that she herself will soon fall into darkness. On top of this Aqua does not bounce back alone ever. She gave into depression once and it was only the charms of her friends that saved her, save gave into depression a second time and it was Mickey who saved her. When she meets Ansem the Wise she is not happy or content and she is unstable enough that hearing about all the good Sora is doing in her stead makes her break down into tears. Aqua was not a stable person, her time in the realm of darkness surrounded only by her own darkness has been hard on her and like a real person her strength of will is not forever.
The way you frame this is highly selective and misses the arc and messaging of 0.2 as a matter of principle. You're right that Aqua spends most of the game losing herself to the darkness, but that's precisely because the game is setting her up to ultimately overcome it, and in no uncertain terms. You're even right about the fact that Aqua repeatedly has to be saved by others, and that's important, because that speaks to the defining conflict which she encounters throughout 0.2: throughout the game, Aqua is experiencing a crisis of faith in herself, specifically. She doesn't believe herself strong enough to overcome the darkness by herself: she first sees the twin keys of her two best friends and takes solace in that, but it wanes as time goes on: she later encounters them both in illusory form and after essentially losing them again, she considers letting the darkness have her, and Mickey comes to help her out. This is characteristic of her extending back through Birth by Sleep, where she's given both the responsibility and the status of Keyblade Master but doesn't act as though she has really earned it and struggles to exercise her new authority with conviction. Aqua is always doubting herself: she sees the signs of Terra's corruption but tells herself she must be wrong about him, then when she confronts him about it to test her suspicions he reinforces her guilt over thinking so low of him: she's always seeking affirmation in others and uses the Master's teaching as her only guiding principle, which is her great error in BBS. It isn't until the Master is gone and she recognizes the consequences of her failure to act with the courage of her own convictions that she starts to assert the first real strain of heroism which carries through from there on out, but she is absolutely beset by that recurring trend towards self-doubt which is only amplified by the oppressive weight and loneliness of the Realm of Darkness.
So in 0.2, Aqua's characterization and arc is specifically informed by this need to literally identify and deconstruct her own inner demons, manifesting in the Phantom Aqua which feeds on her incapacity to spiritually sustain herself. But that's not where her story ends in 0.2, that's where it effectively begins and as she moves through the Realm of Darkness and encounters Terra and Mickey, something shifts in her. That heroic streak which began at the end of Birth by Sleep is reignited by two things: the recollection that she has to survive in order to save Ven, and the knowledge that the Realm of Light itself is not yet safe from the darkness. Mickey also shifts her perspective by informing her that it was her light which brought him to her, which she then recognizes as existing in trinity with Terra and Ven, and also by describing exactly how the Realm of Darkness connects to the Realm of Light as not a separate universe but a necessary counterpoint to it, symbolized by the KKD appearing in the same place its lightside counterpart was born. The final scene with her facing the Demon Wave on DI brings this home explicitly: at that moment, Aqua has recovered her faith in herself and forms a new commitment to fight the battle against the darkness on her own terms: "The next time someone wanders into the Realm of Darkness, I'll be here. The light that cuts through the darkness. I will be their wayfinder." For maybe the first time, Aqua is seriously acknowledging her own capacity to be a unique force for good, that she has a role to play in the larger narrative and that it is her own power and value as a warrior which has to prevail. She isn't looking to other people to give her existence meaning-- she achieves spiritual resolve and reclaims her identity by affirming her status as "Master." The title has taken on a different meaning now; she's not just Eraqus's legacy, or a friend to Terra and Ven, she's a hero in her own right.
It's possible all of that is a red herring intended to give way to a twist reveal that Aqua never really achieved this state of self-affirmation and fell to Xehanort's darkness, but to what end? Her hero's journey came full circle in 0.2: we saw Aqua at her lowest, and we saw her rise above it. What compelling reason is there to undo that arc?
Oh and you remember CoM where Riku was smiling about how is going to walk the road to dawn and everything seems like it will go well for him? Yeah how did that end...oh that's right with the next time we see Riku he's completely thrown away his identity to live in darkness forever, is wallowing in depression and guilt, and stuck in the form of Ansem. KH's endings should never be trusted as long as there were problems that were never addressed and Aqua's story in 0.2 doesn't resolve her issues it gives her hope...and that's the worst thing ever. Because while hope can be a good thing it can also be the thing that bring a fall like it did with Riku. We see this bright loving boy promised power and adventure that never comes causing him to turn to darkness to achieve the prizes that he felt he had been denied.
This is an appeal to tradition and it additionally doesn't work as a defense of this storytelling decision because Riku's arc is uniquely tied to his struggle with his darkness, and the ending of CoM doesn't imply that the journey is over. As he speaks to DiZ, it's made clear that he's decided which path he wants to walk, but inherent to that symbolism is the fact that he's just starting to walk it. It was additionally made clear throughout that game that it was the most difficult and unpredictable path one could choose, so seeing that it isn't easy down the line is consistent with the established motif and direction for Riku as a character.
Aqua, in the first place, isn't struggling against her darkness so much as the darkness threatens to consume her because she fails to see the power in her own light. At the end of 0.2, there's no question that she's on the other end of that: "The light to cut through the darkness." Given that, it's hard to believe that Xehanort could sway her with his own darkness: she's set herself inextricably in opposition to that mandate. Yes, we can speculate around this, but how does it coincide with where she is shown to be at the end of 0.2? She doesn't waver, there's no question that she believes through her own power that she will cut through the darkness and return to Terra and Ven. She's leading her destiny; what would compel her to offer it up to Xehanort? She isn't desperate to escape the RoD anymore; she's simply confident that she will. In the same way that Riku is no longer susceptible to Xehanort's manipulations, Aqua is likewise immunized against them.
So, since we're using Riku as an example, would it make sense to backtrack all of Riku's development in DDD and reinstate him as a force for darkness just because KH doesn't let happy endings alone? My guess is the general consensus would be that doesn't make sense and it would be poor writing, tradition be damned. It's also why the strawman that argues Riku and Mickey need to face conflict in the RoD doesn't cohere: this isn't a question of whether or not conflict is warranted, but of what kind and in what form it manifests.
Aqua and Sora about to be the new Stella and Noctis.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Whoo. Finally made it home after a heavily delayed 7 hour train ride. Wanted to touch on some of Hirokey's points because I think they're cogent but I wanted to be able to do so in a way that addresses them with equal attention, and that just wasn't the environment for it + being on a phone makes longform dialogue difficult.
This puts a lot of concepts on the table which might reflect a need for a conversation too expansive for this thread, but it basically begs the question: what is strength in Kingdom Hearts? Above all, the series pretty objectively prioritizes strength of Heart-- yes, strong-willed individuals can be compromised, but how and why that happens makes all the difference. We have to remember that Sora couldn't be captured as a Darkness using any ordinary means: Xehanort had to develop a highly convoluted mechanism which relied on Sora diving into a plane of existence (or more like suspended existence) where MX could bend the rules to trick Sora's heart into a state of particular vulnerability, which furthermore relied intrinsically on exploiting the subconscious pain/darkness Sora carries from other hearts he's harboring within himself sapping away at him and pushing him right into MX's grasp.
When we compare and contrast this with Aqua, we run into a series of problems stemming from both who she is and her history as a character. To start with, there are some superficial grounds for arguing that Aqua has been compromised due to her stay in the Realm of Darkness, that it has whittled down her willpower to nothing and that she was therefore susceptible to Xehanort's influence. Without context, that would seem to be similar to the situation with Sora in DDD and might be believable, so let's add some context. In the first place, the reason MX was able to manipulate Sora is precisely because Sora had no idea what was going on: he didn't acknowledge that he himself was vulnerable and couldn't successfully ward off Xehanort because he couldn't see the bigger picture. This was largely a result of Sora being placed in the Realm of Sleep without understanding its mechanics so-to-speak, having no longstanding experience with its unique temporal and existential qualities. That is not true for Aqua: over the course of 0.2, we saw her encounter some of the darkest corners of the RoD as it pertains to her own vulnerabilities, and while I'm going to touch on that more firmly later, it stands to reason that Xehanort wouldn't be able to use her own ignorance against her the way he did with Sora in DDD; Aqua probably has more experience with the Realm of Darkness than Xehanort does at this point. Aqua obviously also isn't compromised by the pain of hosting other hearts, and there's another comparison between her heart and Sora's which is worth recognizing: she has at least as much, if not more, light than him. While this isn't explicitly confirmed anywhere, it's a pretty good bet: Xehanort planned to use her as a backup in case Ven didn't clash with Vanitas to form the X-Blade, which requires a pure heart of light against a pure heart of darkness. If she was a potential, if not exact, match, then her heart must be overwhelmingly composed of light, possibly approaching PoH status. Xehanort uses darkness to latch onto people: that's reflected in all of his (known) selections for the new Organization, and it's the reason why he was able to possess Terra-- by fostering the darkness within him. Xehanort can take over the hearts of people with light even if there's a sliver of darkness, but it's the path of most resistance: that's why he had to go so far to capture Sora, therefore it likely would take at least as much work if not more to capture Aqua.
If it's a question of strength in terms of resisting Xehanort's heart, Aqua's one of the least likely candidates to fall to him, so there has to be a really strong justification for how and why that happened. Let's talk about why her time in the Realm of Darkness isn't a good one.
The way you frame this is highly selective and misses the arc and messaging of 0.2 as a matter of principle. You're right that Aqua spends most of the game losing herself to the darkness, but that's precisely because the game is setting her up to ultimately overcome it, and in no uncertain terms. You're even right about the fact that Aqua repeatedly has to be saved by others, and that's important, because that speaks to the defining conflict which she encounters throughout 0.2: throughout the game, Aqua is experiencing a crisis of faith in herself, specifically. She doesn't believe herself strong enough to overcome the darkness by herself: she first sees the twin keys of her two best friends and takes solace in that, but it wanes as time goes on: she later encounters them both in illusory form and after essentially losing them again, she considers letting the darkness have her, and Mickey comes to help her out. This is characteristic of her extending back through Birth by Sleep, where she's given both the responsibility and the status of Keyblade Master but doesn't act as though she has really earned it and struggles to exercise her new authority with conviction. Aqua is always doubting herself: she sees the signs of Terra's corruption but tells herself she must be wrong about him, then when she confronts him about it to test her suspicions he reinforces her guilt over thinking so low of him: she's always seeking affirmation in others and uses the Master's teaching as her only guiding principle, which is her great error in BBS. It isn't until the Master is gone and she recognizes the consequences of her failure to act with the courage of her own convictions that she starts to assert the first real strain of heroism which carries through from there on out, but she is absolutely beset by that recurring trend towards self-doubt which is only amplified by the oppressive weight and loneliness of the Realm of Darkness.
So in 0.2, Aqua's characterization and arc is specifically informed by this need to literally identify and deconstruct her own inner demons, manifesting in the Phantom Aqua which feeds on her incapacity to spiritually sustain herself. But that's not where her story ends in 0.2, that's where it effectively begins and as she moves through the Realm of Darkness and encounters Terra and Mickey, something shifts in her. That heroic streak which began at the end of Birth by Sleep is reignited by two things: the recollection that she has to survive in order to save Ven, and the knowledge that the Realm of Light itself is not yet safe from the darkness. Mickey also shifts her perspective by informing her that it was her light which brought him to her, which she then recognizes as existing in trinity with Terra and Ven, and also by describing exactly how the Realm of Darkness connects to the Realm of Light as not a separate universe but a necessary counterpoint to it, symbolized by the KKD appearing in the same place its lightside counterpart was born. The final scene with her facing the Demon Wave on DI brings this home explicitly: at that moment, Aqua has recovered her faith in herself and forms a new commitment to fight the battle against the darkness on her own terms: "The next time someone wanders into the Realm of Darkness, I'll be here. The light that cuts through the darkness. I will be their wayfinder." For maybe the first time, Aqua is seriously acknowledging her own capacity to be a unique force for good, that she has a role to play in the larger narrative and that it is her own power and value as a warrior which has to prevail. She isn't looking to other people to give her existence meaning-- she achieves spiritual resolve and reclaims her identity by affirming her status as "Master." The title has taken on a different meaning now; she's not just Eraqus's legacy, or a friend to Terra and Ven, she's a hero in her own right.
It's possible all of that is a red herring intended to give way to a twist reveal that Aqua never really achieved this state of self-affirmation and fell to Xehanort's darkness, but to what end? Her hero's journey came full circle in 0.2: we saw Aqua at her lowest, and we saw her rise above it. What compelling reason is there to undo that arc?
This is an appeal to tradition and it additionally doesn't work as a defense of this storytelling decision because Riku's arc is uniquely tied to his struggle with his darkness, and the ending of CoM doesn't imply that the journey is over. As he speaks to DiZ, it's made clear that he's decided which path he wants to walk, but inherent to that symbolism is the fact that he's just starting to walk it. It was additionally made clear throughout that game that it was the most difficult and unpredictable path one could choose, so seeing that it isn't easy down the line is consistent with the established motif and direction for Riku as a character.
Aqua, in the first place, isn't struggling against her darkness so much as the darkness threatens to consume her because she fails to see the power in her own light. At the end of 0.2, there's no question that she's on the other end of that: "The light to cut through the darkness." Given that, it's hard to believe that Xehanort could sway her with his own darkness: she's set herself inextricably in opposition to that mandate. Yes, we can speculate around this, but how does it coincide with where she is shown to be at the end of 0.2? She doesn't waver, there's no question that she believes through her own power that she will cut through the darkness and return to Terra and Ven. She's leading her destiny; what would compel her to offer it up to Xehanort? She isn't desperate to escape the RoD anymore; she's simply confident that she will. In the same way that Riku is no longer susceptible to Xehanort's manipulations, Aqua is likewise immunized against them.
So, since we're using Riku as an example, would it make sense to backtrack all of Riku's development in DDD and reinstate him as a force for darkness just because KH doesn't let happy endings alone? My guess is the general consensus would be that doesn't make sense and it would be poor writing, tradition be damned. It's also why the strawman that argues Riku and Mickey need to face conflict in the RoD doesn't cohere: this isn't a question of whether or not conflict is warranted, but of what kind and in what form it manifests.
Thank you. I needed this post. You bring up a lot of good points about Aqua's journey and her heroism. This gives me faith that she'll be okay!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
HOLY SHIT
LARXENE OUR GIRL WOW, I bet Darkos will be on cloud 9 xD
!
I know I am. So great to see her again.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I must say, Simba’s finisher with his Link is quite literally a SUPERNOVA!
And HOLY RAVIOLI! That worm boss in the Gummi Ship section was a Heartless? Gotta say, Nomura has supremely stepped up in enemy design.
I guess rewatching I realize its strange that Aqua looks almost as norted as she can be, but Larxene only has yellow eyes? And Marluxia seemingly has nothing still if he is even norted at all?
It just seems....fast lol.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Thank you. I needed this post. You bring up a lot of good points about Aqua's journey and her heroism. This gives me faith that she'll be okay!
A lot of people think this is a ROD illusion, cause Mickey feels guilty about leaving her.
This trailer has terrible audio mixing, but man it has everything a Kingdom Hearts trailer needs. A world reveal, talking about the darkness, and and ominous foreshadow. It's a ways away but I'm still holding out for a Treasure Planet world. Frozen was a matter of time.
Riku is pretty much an expert on purification and possession at this point. So, let’s say Aqua continues attacking Riku and Mickey. If Aqua is knocked-out can’t Riku use his the powers he gained in Dream Drop Distance, dive into Aqua’s heart, purify the darkness, exit Aqua and then wake her up? I think this process could be pretty simple. It would be funny if this was solved so easily with how much we freaked out over it. But his Keyblade is damaged so maybe he can’t use these abilities without it. Or before Riku has the chance to do that Aqua escapes through a portal now that she has darkness powers. She could also just outright defeat Riku and Mickey. I dunno how it will go.
And even if Aqua is purified they can’t get Ven now. Where is Master Keeper? Isn’t that certain Keyblade needed for Castle Oblivion? So, they have to purify Aqua and get her Master Keeper back. Oh, I almost forgot, they also need to get her normal Keyblade and armor! This gives Team Mickey a lot more work to do. I guess that's a good thing since they need more adventures to do while Sora goes through several worlds, the game needs a reason to keep the main characters separated and busy.
I’m all for Aqua being ‘norted. It’s heartbreaking and completely unexpected. It’s fucking genius. I am shooketh!
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
So that was part 1 according to the japanese youtube.
I think we're definitely getting a trailer at each conference and a new world reveal as well in each trailer.
I also get the feeling we'll also get world reveals at TGS and Jump Festa
Which means 4-5 more worlds to go.
Yeah that's what i was thinking too We've gotten Frozen for Trailer #1 so what's Next (Trailer 2 could have Either Big Hero 6 or Jungle Book) and Trailer 3 (Could have Either Treasure Planet or Atlantis). So yeah we'll have to wait and see what happens Tomorrow and Tuesday.
And then probably during Tokyo Game Show 2018 (We don't know if there'll be any BH6 Footage there or not) and Jump Festa 2018 we could see at Least 2-3 Worlds Revealed before the end of the Year
I don't give two diddlies about Frozen, but Larxene's presence will offset my ambivalence for that film with full-blown hype for the Arendelle world.
Some of this animation is quite lovely. I mostly noted it in the scenes Herc saved the townspeople, Simba's summon magic, and Rapunzel's facial expressions. I'm all for pushing back the release if these things can be tightened further.
And I don't care if it's real, a projection, a manifestation, or whatever. But seeing Aqua like that hurt my soul. My bb~ ;0;
There is a lot I want to tackle there but I don't have the time before bed (drat work for existing on E3 week!) but let me state something important. Trauma isn't something you magically recover from and get over, trauma is called that for a reason. It never really goes away, sometimes it lessens and some times you find ways to overcome it but it's not actually overcome to the point its gone, it always finds a new way to come back and bite you. When KH has made a character's trauma as a focus it never has made getting over it easy and it's in fact never let people get over their trauma because that is again not how trauma works. Riku is a great example for every time he seems like he's conquered his issues they reared right back up in a new way. DDD's story was about Riku accepting that his trauma and mistakes aren't something he will ever be able to escape, they are a part of him he can't lock away or ignore. All he can do is accept it move forward and it took YEARS and many adventures to reach this point.
Now I want you to look at Aqua because while she has not always been fairly written Nomura has never actually forgotten how trauma actually works with her. 0.2 is not Aqua conquering her trauma because again that's not how trauma works. 0.2 is merely a glimpse into the ongoing struggle Aqua has been having. She seemed so strong and certain of herself when she sacrificed herself to save Terra, but then not long later we see time in the realm of darkness had robbed her of her ability to smile and she was ready to just fade into the dark. Her friends saved her and she was renewed with strength but then new issues cropped up and by the time she reached Cinderella's castle which wasn't long after that scene she was already losing hope and strength. The World Within is where Aqua is made to face all her bad thoughts and feelings about herself but in the end destroying the phantom Aqua doesn't mean anything to her, because she knows that the cracks in her heart that created that phantom are still there and now darkness has begun to find their way into them. She is so desperate to see her friends she chases illusions not caring what danger she is rushing into, that's a far cry from her formerly healthy and controlled self. When she finally meets Terra and Ventus she seems to be getting better but then stuff goes south and Aqua is ready to let herself die again.
Mickey comes in and saves her and so now Aqua is kicking not because she wants to be but because Mickey wanted her to be. Mickey gives Aqua hope, companionship, and new purpose that's what leads to Aqua regaining so much of her strength. But she didn't conquer anything, she didn't address her issues, and a big generic heartless blob isn't going to be the magic cure all. Instead Aqua repeated the same thing that landed her in the realm of darkness in the first place, she without any thought immediately performed self sacrifice to save the day. That's Aqua's tragic flaw, she is so kind and considerate, she has such a strong sense of justice, that she still will do everything she can to be the hero people needs even if it harms her. What we see in the end is Aqua searching and trying to find solace in how she just had her hope ripped away from her. "It's okay if I'm stuck, I'll be the wayfinder to guide people who get lost here like me" it was something to give her purpose and purpose is what keeps Aqua going.
But it's very telling that Nomura struggled long and hard with Aqua's final moments on the island, torn between making it bittersweet or outright saddening. The fact he even considered that 0.2 might end with Aqua basically being totally miserable is pretty telling on how much he was aware that 0.2 did not address Aqua's issues. However he did opt to go with the strength ending so that says something to, but then you have to realize....Aqua's new found purpose in life that is giving her strength is rather meaningless if she never finds anyone else. Realistically that kind of mentality Aqua had is not something that lasts especially when she would simply continue to wander the darkness alone, never getting to be a wayfinder for anyone. This brings us to the final scene we have her literally breaking down into tears upon hearing about Sora, it's a big sign that Aqua is not stable.
The setup for Aqua's fall was there, 0.2 wasn't a mislead but rather it's exactly what built up to this. It established all the problems in Aqua that are never properly resolved, it makes Aqua realize for the short time she is in the realm of darkness it's YEARS in the realm of light, and then ends off with giving her false hope and an empty purpose both of which would only serve to push her to darkness when cold lonely reality sinks back in.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the data Twilight Town and Roxas and wondered something about it, and I couldn’t find it but I just wanted to say the digital Twilight Town is a bit focus.
Pence was seen in the other trailer in front of Ansem’s computer in the basement, and it had a bunch of words on it including ‘Door to Darkness’ and Ienzo, who I want to stress is not a Darkness (that we know of so far), was talking to the crew over the phone about it.
There is a lot I want to tackle there but I don't have the time before bed (drat work for existing on E3 week!) but let me state something important. Trauma isn't something you magically recover from and get over, trauma is called that for a reason. It never really goes away, sometimes it lessens and some times you find ways to overcome it but it's not actually overcome to the point its gone, it always finds a new way to come back and bite you. When KH has made a character's trauma as a focus it never has made getting over it easy and it's in fact never let people get over their trauma because that is again not how trauma works. Riku is a great example for every time he seems like he's conquered his issues they reared right back up in a new way. DDD's story was about Riku accepting that his trauma and mistakes aren't something he will ever be able to escape, they are a part of him he can't lock away or ignore. All he can do is accept it move forward and it took YEARS and many adventures to reach this point.
Now I want you to look at Aqua because while she has not always been fairly written Nomura has never actually forgotten how trauma actually works with her. 0.2 is not Aqua conquering her trauma because again that's not how trauma works. 0.2 is merely a glimpse into the ongoing struggle Aqua has been having. She seemed so strong and certain of herself when she sacrificed herself to save Terra, but then not long later we see time in the realm of darkness had robbed her of her ability to smile and she was ready to just fade into the dark. Her friends saved her and she was renewed with strength but then new issues cropped up and by the time she reached Cinderella's castle which wasn't long after that scene she was already losing hope and strength. The World Within is where Aqua is made to face all her bad thoughts and feelings about herself but in the end destroying the phantom Aqua doesn't mean anything to her, because she knows that the cracks in her heart that created that phantom are still there and now darkness has begun to find their way into them. She is so desperate to see her friends she chases illusions not caring what danger she is rushing into, that's a far cry from her formerly healthy and controlled self. When she finally meets Terra and Ventus she seems to be getting better but then stuff goes south and Aqua is ready to let herself die again.
Mickey comes in and saves her and so now Aqua is kicking not because she wants to be but because Mickey wanted her to be. Mickey gives Aqua hope, companionship, and new purpose that's what leads to Aqua regaining so much of her strength. But she didn't conquer anything, she didn't address her issues, and a big generic heartless blob isn't going to be the magic cure all. Instead Aqua repeated the same thing that landed her in the realm of darkness in the first place, she without any thought immediately performed self sacrifice to save the day. That's Aqua's tragic flaw, she is so kind and considerate, she has such a strong sense of justice, that she still will do everything she can to be the hero people needs even if it harms her. What we see in the end is Aqua searching and trying to find solace in how she just had her hope ripped away from her. "It's okay if I'm stuck, I'll be the wayfinder to guide people who get lost here like me" it was something to give her purpose and purpose is what keeps Aqua going.
But it's very telling that Nomura struggled long and hard with Aqua's final moments on the island, torn between making it bittersweet or outright saddening. The fact he even considered that 0.2 might end with Aqua basically being totally miserable is pretty telling on how much he was aware that 0.2 did not address Aqua's issues. However he did opt to go with the strength ending so that says something to, but then you have to realize....Aqua's new found purpose in life that is giving her strength is rather meaningless if she never finds anyone else. Realistically that kind of mentality Aqua had is not something that lasts especially when she would simply continue to wander the darkness alone, never getting to be a wayfinder for anyone. This brings us to the final scene we have her literally breaking down into tears upon hearing about Sora, it's a big sign that Aqua is not stable.
The setup for Aqua's fall was there, 0.2 wasn't a mislead but rather it's exactly what built up to this. It established all the problems in Aqua that are never properly resolved, it makes Aqua realize for the short time she is in the realm of darkness it's YEARS in the realm of light, and then ends off with giving her false hope and an empty purpose both of which would only serve to push her to darkness when cold lonely reality sinks back in.
It's moments like these that make me miss when the forum had the option to give someone Reputation points for a post.
Aquanort does brush on the trope of Darkness (pun intended) Induced Audience Apathy. Seriously, BBS had her lose her friends, 0.2 had her walk through the KH equivalent of the Negative Zone, and now she's been Norted. Seriously, it's like taking a puppy, kicking the puppy, treating the wounds lemon juice, and then kicking the puppy again.
That doesn't apply only to Aqua though but to Terra and Ventus as well and strictly spoken also for Roxas, Naminé and Xion?
I could make literally the same argument of continuous puppy kicking and having heaps of pain leveled on their heads for those other characters too, with an extra dose on top for Ventus when we go by the assumption that not only has he experienced/witnessed the original Keyblade War, but also that Union X will have a sort of downer ending as well for him.
And yet people are very quick to embrace those other characters being enslaved to Xehanort yet the moment it is Aqua it is suddenly unacceptable and an insult?
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
Yeah that's what i was thinking too We've gotten Frozen for Trailer #1 so what's Next (Trailer 2 could have Either Big Hero 6 or Jungle Book) and Trailer 3 (Could have Either Treasure Planet or Atlantis). So yeah we'll have to wait and see what happens Tomorrow and Tuesday.
And then probably during Tokyo Game Show 2018 (We don't know if there'll be any BH6 Footage there or not) and Jump Festa 2018 we could see at Least 2-3 Worlds Revealed before the end of the Year
BH6 was already revealed so it doesn't count as new world but I think we'll see footage.
Also expect Lea, Kairi and Final Fantasy Characters today.
I pray for Jungle Book to finally make it in.
[FONT="][FONT="]These are my new predictions for worlds and the Seekers/Guardians lineups based on what we learned today with a dose of speculation.
Worlds and their Seekers of Darkness:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Olympus: Xigbar[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Twilight Town: Ansem and Xemnas[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Toy Box: Young Xehanort[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Monstropolis: Vanitas[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Atlantis: Isa[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Radiant Garden: Terranort and Other Riku[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Bewitching Bayou: Luxord[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Kingdom of Corona: Marluxia[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Arendelle: Larxene[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]San Fransokyo: Aqua[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Cable Town: Master Xehanort [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Keyblade Graveyard/Kingdom Hearts:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Guardians of Light:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Sora[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Riku[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Kairi[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Roxas[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Lea[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Xion[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Mickey[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="]
I can still see Treasure Planet as Gummi ship missions and maybe a slight chance of another Pixar world where Terranort, Other Riku, or Isa could appear rather than where I have them. [/FONT]
There is a lot I want to tackle there but I don't have the time before bed (drat work for existing on E3 week!) but let me state something important. Trauma isn't something you magically recover from and get over, trauma is called that for a reason. It never really goes away, sometimes it lessens and some times you find ways to overcome it but it's not actually overcome to the point its gone, it always finds a new way to come back and bite you. When KH has made a character's trauma as a focus it never has made getting over it easy and it's in fact never let people get over their trauma because that is again not how trauma works. Riku is a great example for every time he seems like he's conquered his issues they reared right back up in a new way. DDD's story was about Riku accepting that his trauma and mistakes aren't something he will ever be able to escape, they are a part of him he can't lock away or ignore. All he can do is accept it move forward and it took YEARS and many adventures to reach this point.
But that's the story of 0.2; Aqua doesn't get over her trauma easily, and she hasn't locked away or hidden any part of herself, instead she goes through literal KH hell and finally accepts the full merit of her humanity. Again, Aqua and Riku are battling different demons: Riku feels/felt he has to atone for all of his wrongdoings in KH1 and his story reflects that, but Aqua's arc runs almost directly contrary: despite all of the good she does for others, she sees it as a product of the strength they've conveyed to her, which she's responsible for repaying. She fears the Phantom represents the cracks in her heart because, in her state of mind at the time, nobody else is around to fill them. This is echoed throughout the game, when Aqua comments on the solitude of an empty town in Castle of Dreams and at many other points. At the end of 0.2, she's finally realized that she doesn't need to sustain her heart using the light of others: she has her own light to guide the way, and accepting that was always her central source of conflict. In BBS, she defined her light according what Eraqus told her it was; she later defined it, additionally, against the encroaching darkness she sensed in Terra: "What else is darkness but hate and rage? ...You'll go astray again. How does that honor our Master's memory, Terra?" These words refer to Terra and the Master, but they reflect Aqua's inner dilemma: how can she reconcile the fact that the "light" she clung to in Eraqus and which she tried to impose upon Terra as a method of maintaining her own ideological truth have now both disappeared? Aqua always saw herself reflected in others: 0.2 is about her looking straight in the mirror and being forced to see herself.
Mickey comes in and saves her and so now Aqua is kicking not because she wants to be but because Mickey wanted her to be. Mickey gives Aqua hope, companionship, and new purpose that's what leads to Aqua regaining so much of her strength. But she didn't conquer anything, she didn't address her issues, and a big generic heartless blob isn't going to be the magic cure all. Instead Aqua repeated the same thing that landed her in the realm of darkness in the first place, she without any thought immediately performed self sacrifice to save the day. That's Aqua's tragic flaw, she is so kind and considerate, she has such a strong sense of justice, that she still will do everything she can to be the hero people needs even if it harms her. What we see in the end is Aqua searching and trying to find solace in how she just had her hope ripped away from her. "It's okay if I'm stuck, I'll be the wayfinder to guide people who get lost here like me" it was something to give her purpose and purpose is what keeps Aqua going.
It's way more than that: she finds a purpose which is reflective of her need to resolve her struggle with her own identity, and that's buoyed by the knowledge of her constant connection with the light which is predicated upon her own power and informs that purpose. What Mickey shows her is that the Realm of Darkness is not an island to which she has been abandoned or forsaken, but the "other side" of the world where light gathers, and her light connects her to that; she just has to own it. After being left by Mickey and being alone for some time, Aqua doesn't revert to her sad loss of self, she looks up at the world and says, "It's beautiful." She's conquered her desperation and replaced it with purpose of her own making.
But it's very telling that Nomura struggled long and hard with Aqua's final moments on the island, torn between making it bittersweet or outright saddening. The fact he even considered that 0.2 might end with Aqua basically being totally miserable is pretty telling on how much he was aware that 0.2 did not address Aqua's issues. However he did opt to go with the strength ending so that says something to, but then you have to realize....Aqua's new found purpose in life that is giving her strength is rather meaningless if she never finds anyone else. Realistically that kind of mentality Aqua had is not something that lasts especially when she would simply continue to wander the darkness alone, never getting to be a wayfinder for anyone. This brings us to the final scene we have her literally breaking down into tears upon hearing about Sora, it's a big sign that Aqua is not stable.
The statement is intended to be symbolic, not literal: it's clear Aqua's intent isn't to wait around for someone to show up, she's just affirming that her light and her spirit have intrinsic value and this is one of the reasons she understands that now; that doesn't disappear just because she's alone or because she's in the RoD. As for Nomura's statement, I haven't read it and frankly I don't care, his intent should be apparent and argued within the work, not an Ultimania interview.
Also, she does find Ansem, so that goes to her purpose even if you want to read it literally, and when she cries she's smiling because those are happy tears. Crying does not equate to weakness or instability, it's healthy and normal to do so when you are moved and in that moment, Aqua is moved by the knowledge that Sora is still fighting out in the realm of light; look at it this way, the boy she thought she would condemn to a life of hardship and conflict by bestowing a Keyblade upon him (due to her own lack of conviction and projecting her relationship with Terra) is now a hero going around saving the world. That's pretty full circle, and it has even more of an impact when you consider that Mickey told her about Sora in 0.2 because it goes right to her central lesson: Aqua was right to recognize Sora's potential to do great things, and she had no need to doubt herself in that moment: that knowledge validates her in exceptional fashion.
That said, I think we do have to be careful when considering Blank Points as so much of it is reframed (or made awkwardly contradictory) by 0.2 that it's hard to know what conceptually sticks and what doesn't. I use 0.2 as the final reference point because, even though it isn't Aqua's most recent appearance chronologically, it's superior canon to Blank Points on that conceptual level. The impression of Aqua in 0.2 is what we're meant to consider when we look at Aqua in KH3.
The setup for Aqua's fall was there, 0.2 wasn't a mislead but rather it's exactly what built up to this. It established all the problems in Aqua that are never properly resolved, it makes Aqua realize for the short time she is in the realm of darkness it's YEARS in the realm of light, and then ends off with giving her false hope and an empty purpose both of which would only serve to push her to darkness when cold lonely reality sinks back in.
I disagree fundamentally with everything you just said.
But we'll see. ;)
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I guess they were saving the Frozen announcement for this purpose, to use its popularity to shift focus away from the delay. It doesn’t make it any better for me, but the trailer is nice.
I’m happy Larxene and especially Frozen have been confirmed. And I’m happy the nonsensical argument that Frozen would be a musical world is has now been killed with a mallet and buried. The world’s environment looks fantastic. I would rather have had Isa as that world’s darkness, but Larxene was my 2nd choice (Vexen 3rd).
NPCs in Coliseum?? That’s shocking. Hercules normally saves invisible people. Even though I'm not much of a Tangled fan, Rapunzel looks great.
Very disappointed we didn’t get world-specific outfits for Arendelle. Why even have the characters mention how cold it is only for them to then ignore it entirely….. And there better be a party member for that world considering they have 3-4 possibilities for the role for God’s sake.
If that was really Aqua and not some illusion, I wouldn’t be too bothered although I can understand why others don’t like it. The only real problem for me is that I don’t want Aqua turned into a damsel just like Kairi, Namine, and Xion. I'm guessing they might have considered this plot to add more women to the Darknesses’ lineup since there’s just…Larxene. Whereas the GoL could have all three of Kairi, Namine, and Xion.
Cute trailer. :3 Aquanort looks pretty hot. XD
I noticed that her figure seemed over-emphasized when she was solid black. I'll be kind of annoyed if they end up sexualizing her more when she's EVULS.
I just realized. We'll probably be getting two more trailers tomorrow from both Sony and Square.
How am I gonna handle all that?
Do people really believe that we'll get 2 more world reveals at E3 this week?
Then what's left to be revealed at Comic Con in July, Gamescom in August, TGS in September, Paris Game Week in October and Jump Festa 2019 (unknown date)?
To those disappointed that we're not getting winter outfits, keep in mind that we already have alternate forms in Monstropolis and Toy Box, and that Sora spends most of Olympus in his KH2 ensemble. We should spend at least half of the game in Sora's standard new clothes. Forms should be a nice surprise, not a mandatory shift to match every world.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
I've been keeping tabs on this thread even before going to sleep... didn't expect it to light up after the "bad writing" reaction.
I don't think people who were not thrilled by this reveal are necessarily bringing the mood down, I can see what they're worried about.
That's why I said I wanna know the reason and context. Because, as is the case with many other things with KH III, it could turn out to be a masterfully done piece or a huge letdown.
Aqua's not immune to Darkness and I'm not necessarily against a "no hero is untouchable" scenario. The one user who mentioned Luke in TLJ (sorry, don't remember, was reading fast) was probably making the apt comparison: beloved heroes falling off their pedestal is a huge deal, and it's bound to be divisive.
Honestly, might be a huge reason about why this is the first KH III trailer to actually get me hype: it finally gave me something to care and wonder about. Something pre-established, that I know a decent amount of already to speculate upon. DDD itself didn't manage to give me that in its own story.
Granted I'm still all up in the Aquanort side of the equation, I'll mention this: it bothers me if it's her that Nomura went out of his way to state Aqua was supposed to be Ventus' backup in being the side of pure light for the X-Blade. Aside from how that shouldn't be possible (but whatever at this point), it does make me think Nomura's just playing fast and loose with characters' roles.
On the other hand... not to throw too much shade and I'm definitely not referring to everyone... but Sephiroth's also kinda right in saying that the fandom losing its stuff over Aquanort is also the same fandom who Norted everyone from Pluto to Kairi's Grandma... it's a little ludicrous.
HOLY SHIT
LARXENE OUR GIRL WOW, I bet Darkos will be on cloud 9 xD
I AM THO
I HAVE MORE RECORDED LINES OF SHANELLE GRAY TO FANGIRL OVER AFTER SO MANY YEARS
SHE'S IN THE NORDIC REALM FOR SHE'S THE PERFECT VIKING GODDESS
AAAAAAHHHHH
AQUANORT DIVIDES, LARXENENORT UNITES
This brings us to the final scene we have her literally breaking down into tears upon hearing about Sora, it's a big sign that Aqua is not stable.
Normally I don't try to pick apart literary and character studies in video games, since they're objective and tend to be rare but if you think the point of Blank Points ending with Aqua crying was to show anything other than Aqua strengthening her resolve, you 100% missed the point.
I'm pretty firmly on team "this isn't a real thing that's happening"
Normally I don't try to pick apart literary and character studies in video games, since they're objective and tend to be rare but if you think the point of Blank Points ending with Aqua crying was to show anything other than Aqua strengthening her resolve, you 100% missed the point.
I'm pretty firmly on team "this isn't a real thing that's happening"
Larxene and Marluxia's states sorta have been convincing me of that too. I don't see how Aqua has like...more nort qualities than Xigbar unless he put his whole heart in her like Terra which would be...a thing that could happen I guess but I dunno how likely lol. I want to say not that likely.
Larxene and Marluxia's states sorta have been convincing me of that too. I don't see how Aqua has like...more nort qualities than Xigbar unless he put his whole heart in her like Terra which would be...a thing that could happen I guess but I dunno how likely lol. I want to say not that likely.
Reading this just gave me another possible scenario:
What if Xehanort pulled the same thing he did to Ventus with Aqua and actually extracted the Darkness from her heart, with this being actually Aqua's Darkness personified?
What this means for the Light Aqua is unclear, but it doesn't have to have as drastic consequences as it had with Ventus.
With Ven, there were three factors that don't apply to Aqua:
1. He was still a 10/11year old kid at the time.
2. He was already weakened by prior Heartless attacks.
3. Xehanort writes in his report that Vanitas took more of Ven's heart than he was supposed to.
Edit:
On the other hand... not to throw too much shade and I'm definitely not referring to everyone... but Sephiroth's also kinda right in saying that the fandom losing its stuff over Aquanort is also the same fandom who Norted everyone from Pluto to Kairi's Grandma... it's a little ludicrous.
Lol, I'm glad someone actually noticed this discrepancy.
Reading this just gave me another possible scenario:
What if Xehanort pulled the same thing he did to Ventus with Aqua and actually extracted the Darkness from her heart, with this being actually Aqua's Darkness personified?
What this means for the Light Aqua is unclear, but it doesn't have to have as drastic consequences as it had with Ventus.
With Ven, there were three factors that don't apply to Aqua:
1. He was still a 10/11year old kid at the time.
2. He was already weakened by prior Heartless attacks.
3. Xehanort writes in his report that Vanitas took more of Ven's heart than he was supposed to.
Edit:
Lol, I'm glad someone actually noticed this discrepancy.
Hm, I could see that as well. Would be an honestly more surprising twist to me tbh, so I am down for it for multiple reasons lol.
Re: Brand new Kingdom Hearts 3 E3 2018 trailer released
[FONT="]Hirokey123 and kirabook Thank You for being the voice of reason in all this.[/FONT]
Well, to be fair I think Kingdom Hearts has had a bad plot ever since KH2 but with the revelations in DDD it just ventured into bad fanfic territory for me. Nomura is such a bad writer and I'm so happy he was taken off the FFXV project. Tabata's undercooked story was a gazillion times better than what Nomura is doing with KH or did with the Compilation of FFVII. Still, I was hoping KH3 would somehow try to aim for something closer to KH1 and BBS than KH2 or DDD. So far it seems there'll be lots of stupid twists and turns following in the footsteps of DDD. Granted, the plot isn't the main reason why I like KH in the first place.
You do know that Tabata was apart of the FFVIIC to right? And really to compare Tabata’s story telling with Nomura’s is asinine went you take into consideration Tabata released FFXV incomplete both in story and gameplay only to “fix it†with years of DLC. Say what you will about Nomura’s games but they’ve never been incomplete. And to add salt to the wound Tabata’s story have not only been undercooked they’ve also been predictable too when you realize all his games end with the main character dying.
I love, love Larxene's voice in Japanse. Hope she gets to do one of her silly evil laughs.
Hopefully Larxene doesn't get killed off for good.
So, other thing I wanna talk about having rewatched the trialer: dialogue seems a lot better.
More... human. They way Sora talks, with colloquialisms and the like, sounds just like how a kid of his age would talk.
"Hey, islander! What can I say?"
Even HJO's voice modulation is up a notch: when Sora notices the sea gradually freezing, there's just the right amount of esitation and pause.
I know I'm comparing this with stuff from even a decade ago, but it's nice to see these even slight improvements: I'm sure the Norts will still go with their grandiouse monologuing, but at least small talk feels less star wars-y.
I love, love Larxene's voice in Japanse. Hope she gets to do one of her silly evil laughs.
Hopefully Larxene doesn't get killed off for good.
Yes to both.
Man I so hope they don't screw up Larxene.
I sure hope that Kristoff won't be another Buzz. It would be repetitive to have another introduction and be overly suspicious. Plus it would get old quite quick. It seems to me so far that the focus is much more on Elsa's point of view, rather than Anna's.
[spoiler=Hirokey123's reply under a spoiler tag only to avoid walls of text]
There is a lot I want to tackle there but I don't have the time before bed (drat work for existing on E3 week!) but let me state something important. Trauma isn't something you magically recover from and get over, trauma is called that for a reason. It never really goes away, sometimes it lessens and some times you find ways to overcome it but it's not actually overcome to the point its gone, it always finds a new way to come back and bite you. When KH has made a character's trauma as a focus it never has made getting over it easy and it's in fact never let people get over their trauma because that is again not how trauma works. Riku is a great example for every time he seems like he's conquered his issues they reared right back up in a new way. DDD's story was about Riku accepting that his trauma and mistakes aren't something he will ever be able to escape, they are a part of him he can't lock away or ignore. All he can do is accept it move forward and it took YEARS and many adventures to reach this point.
Now I want you to look at Aqua because while she has not always been fairly written Nomura has never actually forgotten how trauma actually works with her. 0.2 is not Aqua conquering her trauma because again that's not how trauma works. 0.2 is merely a glimpse into the ongoing struggle Aqua has been having. She seemed so strong and certain of herself when she sacrificed herself to save Terra, but then not long later we see time in the realm of darkness had robbed her of her ability to smile and she was ready to just fade into the dark. Her friends saved her and she was renewed with strength but then new issues cropped up and by the time she reached Cinderella's castle which wasn't long after that scene she was already losing hope and strength. The World Within is where Aqua is made to face all her bad thoughts and feelings about herself but in the end destroying the phantom Aqua doesn't mean anything to her, because she knows that the cracks in her heart that created that phantom are still there and now darkness has begun to find their way into them. She is so desperate to see her friends she chases illusions not caring what danger she is rushing into, that's a far cry from her formerly healthy and controlled self. When she finally meets Terra and Ventus she seems to be getting better but then stuff goes south and Aqua is ready to let herself die again.
Mickey comes in and saves her and so now Aqua is kicking not because she wants to be but because Mickey wanted her to be. Mickey gives Aqua hope, companionship, and new purpose that's what leads to Aqua regaining so much of her strength. But she didn't conquer anything, she didn't address her issues, and a big generic heartless blob isn't going to be the magic cure all. Instead Aqua repeated the same thing that landed her in the realm of darkness in the first place, she without any thought immediately performed self sacrifice to save the day. That's Aqua's tragic flaw, she is so kind and considerate, she has such a strong sense of justice, that she still will do everything she can to be the hero people needs even if it harms her. What we see in the end is Aqua searching and trying to find solace in how she just had her hope ripped away from her. "It's okay if I'm stuck, I'll be the wayfinder to guide people who get lost here like me" it was something to give her purpose and purpose is what keeps Aqua going.
But it's very telling that Nomura struggled long and hard with Aqua's final moments on the island, torn between making it bittersweet or outright saddening. The fact he even considered that 0.2 might end with Aqua basically being totally miserable is pretty telling on how much he was aware that 0.2 did not address Aqua's issues. However he did opt to go with the strength ending so that says something to, but then you have to realize....Aqua's new found purpose in life that is giving her strength is rather meaningless if she never finds anyone else. Realistically that kind of mentality Aqua had is not something that lasts especially when she would simply continue to wander the darkness alone, never getting to be a wayfinder for anyone. This brings us to the final scene we have her literally breaking down into tears upon hearing about Sora, it's a big sign that Aqua is not stable.
The setup for Aqua's fall was there, 0.2 wasn't a mislead but rather it's exactly what built up to this. It established all the problems in Aqua that are never properly resolved, it makes Aqua realize for the short time she is in the realm of darkness it's YEARS in the realm of light, and then ends off with giving her false hope and an empty purpose both of which would only serve to push her to darkness when cold lonely reality sinks back in.
I want this reply printed and put on my wall.
I find it a very mature way to read into Aqua's experience and inner picture, both stable and unstable despite her determination and strength (which she loses over time and tries desperately to regain, even if the new-found motivations are rather abstract and too symbollic to actually give enough strength for a person to want to stay alive, hence all the self-sacrifice talk). She's human too, and a really kindhearted, affectionate mom-friend for that. We don't realize just HOW MUCH this person depends on the existence of others, truly. She's not the loner type to be completely fine with spending so much time alone in a harsh environment (see, Riku handled this better than her, I'd say because he is a different type of person, despite his similarities with Aqua), she is the loving family/group type, who feels best when in meaningful bonds with others.
Normally I don't try to pick apart literary and character studies in video games, since they're objective and tend to be rare but if you think the point of Blank Points ending with Aqua crying was to show anything other than Aqua strengthening her resolve, you 100% missed the point.
I wouldn't say that. Tears can escape one's eyes when they are broken enough to let them escape. Aqua was never THAT emotional, sure she was gentle and kind, but her crackin' and crying? That tells a lot about all the desperation and pressure she kept inside, so much that even a mere name from the Realm of Light, a name of a person she remembers and knows still exists there, was enough to make her cry.
People crying when strengthening their resolve? I don't feel that way. People crying when something hits a vulnerable part of them? Absolutely. She cries because hearing the name gave her hope, and it is hope she needs so much yet has so little of it, if any left for herself.
I just realized each trailer should be the same length as the one shown at Microsoft so 3 3+ minute trailers. I mean wow.
2 trailers today when 1 trailer yesterday left the fandom shaken.
Do people really believe that we'll get 2 more world reveals at E3 this week?
Then what's left to be revealed at Comic Con in July, Gamescom in August, TGS in September, Paris Game Week in October and Jump Festa 2019 (unknown date)?
Kingdom Hearts doesn't go to comic con. Your other best bet for world reveals is TGS(September) and Jump Festa 2018(December)
And yes a world reveal at each conference is what a lot of people are expecting and what they should do. There's still at least 3 worlds post E3 to be revealed.
For a total of 11 Disney Worlds. I also think we're gonna see Radiant Garden today as teased in the Orchestra trailer.
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining but does anyone feel like the reveal trailer was kind of empty? The ending was cool and unexpected but the rest of it made me feel a little despondent. I think that I might be feeling this way because we all expected Frozen, so it wasn't surprising at all. Is this the only trailer that they are releasing this week?
Due to the lack of sound effects, the grunts sounded very off and not to mention awkward.
goods we didn't see kair and lea yet where ever they are at ,not xigbar yet not ratatouille or rapunze dancing minigame there so much tstuff that stuff we dodnt that was shown at the concert
One thing I just remembered is that the "Nortqua"-reveal has quite some similarities to one of the DDD trailers where the Anti-Black Coat was first revealed.
Theories on who that could possibly be were running rampant over the community back then, including people using non-canon information from the novels to insinuate that it might be Vanitas' true form and yet in the end it was, lore-wise, just a sort of mid-boss that is the Nightmare version of Riku as a Spirit Dream Eater.
---
Also, I'm literally cracking up at Ansem SoDs "it's just data" propaganda bullshit, as both Re: Coded and DDD already showed us that this statement doesn't hold any amount of truth in it and someone like Sora, who is always insisting that Tron has a heart, that the Riku Replica is its own existence and so on, certainly won't be swayed by any of these words if Nomura and the writers are sincere about him "having matured".
goods we didn't see kair and lea yet where ever they are at ,not xigbar yet not ratatouille or rapunze dancing minigame there so much tstuff that stuff we dodnt that was shown at the concert
The stuff at the concert was a minute long and it seemed like it was just teasers of things we'll see at E3. People that saw the trailer said they saw a lot of the concert stuff in the trailer at E3.
But at the end of the day Ol Anti-black coat nightmare still wasn't "just an illusion" it was as real as any other Dream Eater and in hindsight the fact it was just a nightmare was made clear just by its nightmare eyes. People cite phantom Aqua as an example of why it can be an illusion but at the same time ignore all the context that created Phantom Aqua to begin with. Aqua was drowning in her own negative thoughts and trauma, she was losing heart, and then came the mirror world's power to turn reflections into reality that gave Aqua's darkness a way to take physical form. Phantom Aqua's existence followed a kind of clear logic to it, there is nothing like that at the beach that would make sense for such an illusion to appear again. Which is why Aqua never sees Phantom Aqua outside of the World Within, it's a creation of that world specifically and that world isn't trapped in darkness anymore either.
On top of this why would this be an illusion? Like why would Mickey or Riku be afraid this is going to happen to Aqua? Her falling to darkness is a believable enough fear but that's not what this is. That kind of fear should yield something more generic and realistic to the possibilities they were imagining like an "anti-Aqua" or a "heartless Aqua" you know the kind of thing that could realistically happen by just sitting in the realm of darkness to long. Instead it's specifically Aqua as half Xehanort, for that make any sense Riku and Mickey would have had to had a reason to believe Xehanort was going to go after Aqua.
The idea that "it wouldn't be spoiled in a trailer so it's obviously meant to be misleading" also seems to not really hold up water. KH trailers never care about spoilers, they put massive ones in them all the time with DDD and BBS being some of the biggest offenders. While seeing Aquanort can be viewed a spoiler there is also in the grand scheme of things the fact that her mere existence, while a shock, doesn't mean a whole lot taken alone. The context of what lead up it and more importantly how it will affect the plot of KH3 moving forward. Those are the things the matter and those are the things the trailers aren't going to spoil.
Simplest explanations are usually the most right in KH even when it can seem confusing and contradictory at times, see...well most twists in KH.
The stuff at the concert was a minute long and it seemed like it was just teasers of things we'll see at E3. People that saw the trailer said they saw a lot of the concert stuff in the trailer at E3.
Damn Fugde, good job yo!!!
That's what I'm talking about, Fudge. Great job!
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the data Twilight Town and Roxas and wondered something about it, and I couldn’t find it but I just wanted to say the digital Twilight Town is a bit focus.
Pence was seen in the other trailer in front of Ansem’s computer in the basement, and it had a bunch of words on it including ‘Door to Darkness’ and Ienzo, who I want to stress is not a Darkness (that we know of so far), was talking to the crew over the phone about it.
Ansem: "The other Twilight Town is just data."
So Sora's reason for going to the old mansion could be to give Roxas a body by sending him to the digital Twilight Town and back, or at least try to give Roxas some kind of life by having him live there. I can see Ansem finishing his line with something like "It cannot replace the real thing and give Roxas the life you want him to have. It would be a prison." or something like that.
Still sitting at my table for one waiting for my Grannynort and seagull-whose-egg-Sora-stole-nort.
the only thing i think they saw was the dark figure aka aquanort tease
Yeah, the only thing we saw that was shown yesterday was Aquanort, and even then the scene was short and just showed a silhouette person and that Keyblade.
Was it this comment?
Maybe! I felt like it was a reply to that one but I struggled to find it (It was 11pm and we spent all day at a theme park so my sleepiness might have meant I kept missing it).
But it’s very interesting to know that the beginning of the rescue for Roxas, the data-world, and the Door to Darkness happens very early on. And Ienzo is called upon via mobile phone (his character model and Radiant Garden are seen) to help Pence out with the data aspect.
The plot from what I’ve gathered from the two trailers:
Go to Olympus, Braig is there, fight Lythos, Hades is around, regain strength.
Go to Twilight Town, HPO is chased by the Devils Swarm, get the Mobile Portal, meet Ansem and Xemnas at the mansion, go to the computer, call Ienzo, stuff happens, back at Yen Sid’s Tower Riku and Mickey return without Aqua (we saw this)
So I don't know what worlds we will get at today's trailer, but I really hope we finally get to see San Fransokyo. I have seen people worry that the world was scrapped.
The plot from what I’ve gathered from the two trailers:
Go to Olympus, Braig is there, fight Lythos, Hades is around, regain strength.
Go to Twilight Town, HPO is chased by the Devils Swarm, get the Mobile Portal, meet Ansem and Xemnas at the mansion, go to the computer, call Ienzo, stuff happens, back at Yen Sid’s Tower Riku and Mickey return without Aqua (we saw this)
Very interesting stuff indeed.
I do wonder though why Ienzo is suddenly helping them and why Sora & co. trust him just out of the blue.
And if Mickey and Riku return to Yen Sid without Aqua I guess this means either they verified that the Nortqua is indeed the real thing or they couldn't find the real thing after all.
So where is that second trailer?
Very interesting stuff indeed.
I do wonder though why Ienzo is suddenly helping them and why Sora & co. trust him just out of the blue.
And if Mickey and Riku return to Yen Sid without Aqua I guess this means either they verified that the Nortqua is indeed the real thing or they couldn't find the real thing after all.
So where is that second trailer?
Do you mean the trailer shown on Saturday? I believe that was Orchestra exclusive. We could get it today though.
Yo.
I'm mostly a lurker, but this Aquanort business has me all kerfudgity.
First off, I want to commend Alexis.Anagram and Hirokey123 for having such a civil and composed argument (or discussion, if argument is too strong of word). They both brought up plenty of valid points and though I tend to think that Nomura doesn't think as deeply as either of them hope he does, it's difficult to write off either of their points.
And a parting idea, that may satisfy both parties (or not).
Aqua's driving motivation has always been Terra and Ventus. And for the past 10 years, or however long it felt like for her, they have been in a pretty bad state. Xehanort could have sent an iteration of himself (Terranort maybe) not to overpower her, but to reason with her. And really, Xehanort has two modes in this argument. He could threaten that unless she helps him to restore Kingdom Hearts, her friends will be forever trapped. I think that in this situation, she might just do as he says. She is the self-sacrificing type after all. In fact, this may give her the reins to pretend to be helping Xehanort convert Ventus, when really she is fighting the nortification and just trying to help him wake up, so he can join Sora and the lights.
Or maybe less plausibly but more interestingly, Xehanort can argue that if she joins them, she can be reunited with her friends again - and that the world that awaits them after he succeeds is a paradise, not a wasteland. This plot-line would have an Aqua that is upset with Mickey for ignoring her friends and believe that helping Xehanort is the best way to help her friends. However, as I'm writing this, I'm starting to doubt it. It seems unlikely for her to trust Xehanort after all he's put her through, and I think to Alexis' point - it would go against the arc established in 0.2 to just up and help the guy that put her there to begin with.
In general, I feel that the series would benefit from MX acting on the "Universe needs Balance" and "I'm the Good Guy" more than he has so far. And if he were to play that card, so to speak, there is a small possibility that Aqua could waver to his side.
Maybe! I felt like it was a reply to that one but I struggled to find it (It was 11pm and we spent all day at a theme park so my sleepiness might have meant I kept missing it).
But it’s very interesting to know that the beginning of the rescue for Roxas, the data-world, and the Door to Darkness happens very early on. And Ienzo is called upon via mobile phone (his character model and Radiant Garden are seen) to help Pence out with the data aspect.
The plot from what I’ve gathered from the two trailers:
Go to Olympus, Braig is there, fight Lythos, Hades is around, regain strength.
Go to Twilight Town, HPO is chased by the Devils Swarm, get the Mobile Portal, meet Ansem and Xemnas at the mansion, go to the computer, call Ienzo, stuff happens, back at Yen Sid’s Tower Riku and Mickey return without Aqua (we saw this)
I have no clue as to why, but the characters using mobile phones amuses me.
Do you mean the trailer shown on Saturday? I believe that was Orchestra exclusive. We could get it today though.
I don't know which trailer was shown when, I wasn't at home on the weekend.
In general, I feel that the series would benefit from MX acting on the "Universe needs Balance" and "I'm the Good Guy" more than he has so far. And if he were to play that card, so to speak, there is a small possibility that Aqua could waver to his side.
That possibility is however indeed very small and someone like Aqua has to be very desperate for that to result in her flat out changing sides.
Not to mention that Xehanort is not only responsible for her own suffering, but also for all the pain and helplessness her friends Terra and Ventus who she so cherishes are in.
If it weren't for Xehanort, none of the three would be in the miserable states they are in right now at all, so that makes it very hard to believe that Aqua would actually aid the very cause of their misery willingly.
In general, Xehanort acting like "I'm the good guy" and other characters in-universe actually believing him would be like an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
This man has so far caused single-handed the most damage, both physical and mentally, to a whole ensemble of largely innocent characters in the present era and while I can see him personally believing to be "working for a (abstract) greater good" due to his massive ego I have a hard time believing other characters sharing that view, especially those who were and are continuously victimized by him.
It would also send a weird message if they try to spin a scenario ala the only way to end your suffering is to serve the one causing it.
Yeah, looking back, I didn't really think it through all that well. I think for whatever reason in my head, I was drawing similarities between Xehanort and Thanos, who both seek balance regardless of the means. And while Thanos is clearly in the wrong, he at least has some reasoning, and encourages the viewer to empathize with him on occasion. However, an actual logical argument has never come out of Xehanort's mouth, and at this point it's too late for any sort of 'sympathy'.
I still hold that threatening Aqua with her friends' destruction/entrapment is still a viable method for Xehanort to use to 'Nort her without Aqua's arc of 'being the light in the darkness' being completely overwritten.
I expected the least.(BH6,2018 release and FF characters) and got less. I should have learned better after FFXV. HMK is saying KHIII at Sony is "In the air" as well. I expect FFVII and Avengers at Sony's at least.
Yeah, looking back, I didn't really think it through all that well. I think for whatever reason in my head, I was drawing similarities between Xehanort and Thanos, who both seek balance regardless of the means. And while Thanos is clearly in the wrong, he at least has some reasoning, and encourages the viewer to empathize with him on occasion. However, an actual logical argument has never come out of Xehanort's mouth, and at this point it's too late for any sort of 'sympathy'.
I still hold that threatening Aqua with her friends' destruction/entrapment is still a viable method for Xehanort to use to 'Nort her without Aqua's arc of 'being the light in the darkness' being completely overwritten.
They didn't go into too much depth but Xehanort does explain his reasoning in BBS. For me, it all really boiled down to this: too much of one thing without seeing the benefits of the other side is bad for everyone in the long run. Which I don't think is an entirely bad argument for him to make. I think that's why Eraqus' character went they way it did. I mean, he did attack Ven and planted seeds of doubts into Terra which is partly the cause of why Terra went in his direction. And he's pretty much a preacher of light and Xehanort probably sees that as a weakness. The Foretellers pretty much destroyed themselves by focusing so much on protecting the light, seperating their unions because of the fear of imbalance of power which leads to darkness, and finding the traitor who fell to darkness, to the point where they all turned against each other, each calling each other out with the exact words "Maybe it's you who fell into darkness!" and "I'm one who's been take by darkness!" when I'm pretty none of them have any real reason to distrust each other out of the blue since you all are on the same page at the very least. But also look at Riku, who decided at DDD to embrace his darkness by returning it to light. It doesn't make Xehanort right or wrong but he is an example that darkness isn't always used for evil purposes despite it being a corruptable force of nature. But as Xehanort believes and says to Terra, "Darkness can not be controlled. It can only be channeled. You are fine as you are"
He believes the world is light and darkness in equal measures and we have to reflect that because creates a better world for everyone despite his actions. They're just casualties in the way of the bigger picture. It's probably why he's interested in the keyblade war, because when two strong enough forces come together, they reveal Kingdom Hearts. From that war, the universe was reborn.
But unlike Xehanort, Thanos gave a more emotional reason as to why. His planet was destroyed because he ignored his instincts and from his perspective, his failed at the responsibility that he feels only he could do and he'll do anything to fulfill that duty because he feels it's better for humanity in the long run, his humanity be damned.
So yeah, I guess that always been my problem Xehanort as a Villian as far as motivations. You don't go through all of this body hopping, soul splitting, and ruin people's lives because his your point of view and science. There would have to be a deeper reasoning then that, which is why Thanos worked so well. He isn't a goofy villian a lot of the time unlike Xehanort, who I admit has his moments and a somewhat charmistic swagger to it all because of his confidence.
Hey, he's a bastard but I'll give props to a guy who believes always, with a shadow of a doubt, that he will win the day and does everything possible to make sure that happens and whatever win the good guys get is only temporary, flighting victory because he knows he's smarter then all of them and figured out his next move before the heroes even had a chance to think of theirs. Is it bad writing? Probably but that's damn pretty gangster, I won't lie.
Granted, Voldemort was an scary and formidable Villian and was believable in the actions he was taking and he didn't have a big motivation outside of hating Muggles, Mudbloods, massive ego, and just being a little off from the beginning. Either way, I hope Kingdom Hearts 3 puts more focus on Xehanort's motivation a little bit more. But the story already has a lot going on and his reasoning are pretty cut and dry at this point, so maybe I'm just asking too much.
If Aqua is indeed norted, I really don't believe it was a willing. Like, I find that mighty impossible. Xehanort is her nemesis. While he didn't directly target her (that we know of), he's directly targeted pretty much everyone she knows.
Xehanort would have had to either trick her, or he defeated her in battle and sealed the deal. Aqua's light was already weakening based on 0.2. I think if faced against a full powered Xehanort, whether it be Xehanort himself, young Xehanort, or even Xemnas (which might be what actually happened), she might have lost.
It is strange that she willingly stayed in the dark realm. Was she really just waiting there hoping to get revenge on Mickey or something? Just seems weird I guess. That mention of anti-black coat is interesting. I remember a lot of theories were thrown around about it, but it turned out to be a one time nightmare boss. Hm, that reminds me of armored Ventus as well.
If Aqua is indeed norted, I really don't believe it was a willing. Like, I find that might impossible. Xehanort is her nemesis. While he didn't directly target her (that we know of), he's directly targeted pretty much everyone she knows.
Xehanort would have had to either trick her, or he defeated her in battle and sealed the deal. Aqua's light was already weakening based on 0.2. I think if faced against a full powered Xehanort, whether it be Xehanort himself, young Xehanort, or even Xemnas (which might be what actually happened), she might have lost.
It is strange that she willingly stayed in the dark realm. Was she really just waiting there hoping to get revenge on Mickey or something? Just seems weird I guess. That mention of anti-black coat is interesting. I remember a lot of theories were thrown around about it, but it turned out to be a one time nightmare boss. Hm, that reminds me of armored Ventus as well.
I too can't believe Aqua would willingly turn traitor and actually help the one person responsible for all the suffering of herself and those she loves.
If she had to make "a deal with a devil" it would be with someone who would guarantee her that in the end she would be allowed to save Terra and Ven, something no one right in the head would apply to Xehanort since he's the one who put them into their suffering states in the first place.
But maybe it is like I theorized earlier. Chronologically the last time we see Aqua is during Re: Coded timeline wise when she is with Ansem the Wise, so maybe she has to protect Ansem somehow and while allowing him to escape Aqua finally overexerts herself and comes to her own inner limit just like Sora did in DDD.
And that's the moment one of the Norts strikes, possibly from behind just like it was with Eraqus. With Aqua completely exhausted, I dunno how long her tired and worn down heart could reasonably resist the fresh Xehanort piece.
Add on top all the "chip damage" displayed in 0.2 and it can make sense.
The scenes with Illusion Terra and Ventus in Snow White's coffin make it painfully clear that while Aqua is indeed very strong, the constant nagging of the Darkness and her loneliness are slowly chipping away at her formidable endurance and her heart's "armor".
It is already a pretty solid statement about just how strong Aqua is that she even manages to endure and survive for this long, but she's not invincible and even the strongest fortress can eventually fall if enough time and persistence is applied to it.
In his BBS Reports even Xehanort himself muses that the RoD is a dangerous place no one should stay longer than absolutely necessary.
In this case, the phrase about "Mickey, you're too late..." would be a sort of awful truth in itself and I know many people like to drop this before Mickey's feet (and there's no doubt he would take the blame, intensifying his already existing guilt feelings about not being able to save TAV), but I personally think the one more to blame is Yen Sid.
It somehow reminds me of what Dumbledore in Harry Potter once said, that his overly cautious approach caused inadvertently even more damage. I think it is the same with Yen Sid here, he acted too cautious and not prioritizing getting at least Aqua back is now biting them in the ass hard and it is again TAV as a whole who have to suffer for it (and Mickey, whose guilt complex is gonna go through the roof).
Magnus
June 10, 2018 @ 08:34 pmOffline