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Vanitas



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Samhain

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..if vanitas is a heart of pure darkness wouldn't that make him a heartless?

So technically Vanitas is the first heartless to appear in the Realm of Light then right?
seeing how heartless were only in the realm of darkness prior to vanitas and xehanort apprentice's experiments
 

Penance

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..if vanitas is a heart of pure darkness wouldn't that make him a heartless?

So technically Vanitas is the first heartless to appear in the Realm of Light then right?
seeing how heartless were only in the realm of darkness prior to vanitas and xehanort apprentice's experiments

No. What about those neoshadows in the beginning?
 

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Heartless are just that, a dark heart. Vanitas is a heart, body and soul, as you can clearly see.
 

rac7d

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i thought he was an unversed since they say he was an unverse in the game hoever he did summon shadows
 

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i thought he was an unversed since they say he was an unverse in the game hoever he did summon shadows

Was that said in a specific scene, if so, can you link it to us? If not, it was probably a mistranslation or you misunderstood "source of the Unversed" to "an Unversed".
 

Samhain

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No. What about those neoshadows in the beginning?
Xehanort summoned them from the realm of darkness.

hell he summoned kingdom hearts from the realm of darkness. what makes u think he cant summon heartless out of the realm of darkness?

heartless didnt exist in the realm of light.
Heartless are just that, a dark heart. Vanitas is a heart, body and soul, as you can clearly see.
wait, wait, wait.
vanitas has a body and a soul?
this is getting fucking confusing. i thought when xehanort split his heart in half his darkness formed vanitas which means vanitas only has 50% of a full heart since its only darkness and doesnt really have a body and soul because then he would have take it from ven.

this is so freaking confusing now.
 

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Remember KH? Where XH is seen in his MX resembling form? That form is due to him absorbing Riku's body and soul. What does this have to do with Vanitas? Simple, its the same case, only, the characters swap; Vanitas is absorbing Ventus, it was mentioned in BbS, you can even see the end results of the absorption; Ventus' head in Vanitas' body. Also, remember that the xBlade can only be created when a heart of pure light and a heart of pure darkness are united, as in, Ventus is the heart of pure light while Vanitas is the heart, yes, the heart of pure darkness.

Summary:
Vanitas isn't a Heartless because he has a body and soul, due to absorbing Ventus'.
 

Samhain

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good point.

if vanitas absorbed the body and soul of ven then wouldnt that make ven an existence of a heart then seeing how his body and soul is taken away? i mean when riku got his body and soul stolen by XH he was just an existence of a heart. does this apply to ven as well?
 

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good point.

if vanitas absorbed the body and soul of ven then wouldnt that make ven an existence of a heart then seeing how his body and soul is taken away? i mean when riku got his body and soul stolen by XH he was just an existence of a heart. does this apply to ven as well?

Now this is when Days references come along. Xion was absorbing Roxas, but he retained his form, meaning that he was in constant changes but weren't noticeable up until late. What I'm trying to say is; Vanitas was absorbing Ventus but it wasn't noticeable, up until late in the game when Aqua faces Vanitas.
 

Samhain

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Now this is when Days references come along. Xion was absorbing Roxas, but he retained his form, meaning that he was in constant changes but weren't noticeable up until late. What I'm trying to say is; Vanitas was absorbing Ventus but it wasn't noticeable, up until late in the game when Aqua faces Vanitas.
oh i see.
i get what you're saying now. it's just so damn confusing. kh got even more confusing o.o
 
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Now this is when Days references come along. Xion was absorbing Roxas, but he retained his form, meaning that he was in constant changes but weren't noticeable up until late. What I'm trying to say is; Vanitas was absorbing Ventus but it wasn't noticeable, up until late in the game when Aqua faces Vanitas.

What are you on about?
Xion was never in a process of "absorbing" Roxas, the only thing she was absorbing was Sora's memories through Roxas. Had things been different, Xion would have absorbed Roxas in the same way that Sora did. Both Sora and Xion were incomplete, and he could only complete one of them.

But that has little resemblance to Ven and Vanitas anyway.
It's Ven that has a heart (albeit fractured), body and soul. The only thing we know Vanitas to be made of is the dark side of Ventus' heart.

At first I scoffed at the idea that Vanitas is a heartless, but the more I thought about it, the more I think Samhain has a valid point. Look at what Vanitas is: The dark side of a heart. He was animated by darkness in the process of liberating (part) of a heart from a vessel (Ventus). Are not those the same conditions under which heartless are born?

While MX's heart didn't make a heartless when he released it (because it found a vessel in Terra), look at what happened to Sora when he used the keyblade to release his heart- boom, heartless. MX used the keyblade to extract part of Ventus' heart, so what's the difference? Technically speaking, Vanitas shouldn't even be as powerful as other Heartless since he was only made from part of a heart (and Ventus doesn't even have that much darkness in him anyway).

His body does at least bear resemblance to Pureblood Heartless. Though, if he were a heartless, it also raises a ton of questions. Like how he has a face, for example, and why it was never established that he was a Heartless.
And then there's the fact that Vanitas has retained his sense of self. He's much the same as Ansem SoD in that regard.

Overall, I think it's a worthy point of contention. Vanitas was not portrayed as a Heartless, but the logic is there.
 
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Zulkir

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I think Vanitas is unique, he has certain properties such that he can be thought of as some cross between a heartless, a whole being, and an unversed.



As a whole being: He has a physical form(body) which is alive(soul) and a heart.

Non-whole being properties: He has a fragmented heart instead of a whole one, but he seems capable of surviving on this own as opposed to Ventus who needed to stay connected to Sora.

As a heartless: This depends upon the nature of his body, if his body is nothing more than coalesced darkness, then it is like a heartless


Non-heartless properties: Lacks their feral nature, like Xehanort's heartless(which was also an anomaly since Xehanort himself is a fusion of two hearts). Was not produced in the same way, since a heartless forms as a result of a whole(or fragmented?) heart giving into its darkness(or perhaps attacked by other heartless), and may leave a nobody, Vanitas was formed when the part of Ventus's heart containing darkness was forcibly extracted.


Unversed Properties: Can absorb negative emotions to grow stronger, he actually spawns out unversed to go out, cause havoc and chaos and feed on the negative emotions produced until Ventus and he are at adequate strength to produce a complete X-Blade when they clash.
 

Gram

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Vanitas said that his body was going to be destroyed before he possessed Ven. In short? Yeah, he's got a body.
true but it wasnt formed from half of vens like the others where saying, he's like a heartless.
 

Nayru's Love

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Yes...and no...he fits the bill in some cases. I usually classify the heartless as beings with monstrous appearances that act on instinct, so I'm siding on no for this one, but I can see why one would say otherwise.
Guess what Vanitas' "body" is made of?
I've been thinking about that for a long time, actually. Darkness was the first thought that came to mind, but I never came up with a reason as to why it would take on a human form, since darkness in heart w/o body = monstrous appearance. Well, at least if the darkness doesn't give you a physical manifestation, like MX. Though I'd be willing to say that the darkness influences the body's appearance. I'm thinking Van has a body because Ven's heart sort of never left his body, so Van's body would be Ven's body existing where it isn't.
 

Gram

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Yes...and no...he fits the bill in some cases. I usually classify the heartless as beings with monstrous appearances that act on instinct, so I'm siding on no for this one, but I can see why one would say otherwise.

I've been thinking about that for a long time, actually. Darkness was the first thought that came to mind, but I never came up with a reason as to why it would take on a human form, since darkness in heart w/o body = monstrous appearance. Well, at least if the darkness doesn't give you a physical manifestation, like MX. Though I'd be willing to say that the darkness influences the body's appearance. I'm thinking Van has a body because Ven's heart sort of never left his body, so Van's body would be Ven's body existing where it isn't.
it took on a human form cause he's half of ven.

aint like he's a "true" heartless with a monster form.
 
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Zulkir

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That's why I'm saying that he's unique, with properties of a whole being, an Unversed, and a Heartless, there's no real label for him imo.
 

Gram

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cause u cant label awesomeness XD

seriouly tho "vens dark half" is the best we're ever gonna get from nomura.
 
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