Xemnas IS Terra?

[sora364]

Apprentice Xehanort does not have his own heart. He has MX's, Terra's, and Eraqus's.

He does have his own heart: AnsemSod/AX was no different from Sora after retaining his cognition after becoming a Heartless. Identical to Sora in COM, he was literally a walking a heart (That is, until he possessed Riku.) And conversely, Xemnas would not exist if he "had no heart."

To be more specific, he is nothing more than a heart (a comprised of Terra's, Master Xehanort's, and possibly Eraqus'; but very much still a single heart.) You are correct about no one having "absolute control" however.

 

[Taochan]

He does have his own heart:

If he does, it's a fusion of other people's hearts. The only hearts in Apprentice Xehanort are Terra's, Xehanort's and Eraqus'.

AnsemSod/AX was no different from Sora after retaining his cognition after becoming a Heartless.

He was a lot different. Sora became a Shadow and Ansem SoD managed to retain some sort of form reminiscent of what a human was.

Identical to Sora in COM, he was literally a walking a heart (That is, until he possessed Riku.) And conversely, Xemnas would not exist if he "had no heart."

Wut.

Are you trying to say that Xehanort's Apprentice had his own specific heart, and that's why Xemnas exists?

To be more specific, he is nothing more than a heart. You are correct about no one having "absolute control" however.

No wut.

Apprentice Xehanort is Terra's body with three hearts. That's what he is.

 

[Luap]

He does have his own heart: AnsemSod/AX was no different from Sora after retaining his cognition after becoming a Heartless. Identical to Sora in COM, he was literally a walking a heart (That is, until he possessed Riku.) And conversely, Xemnas would not exist if he "had no heart."

To be more specific, he is nothing more than a heart. You are correct about no one having "absolute control" however.

ASOD is a Heartless. Not a walking heart. He just retained his consciousness, in the same way that Sora's Shadow Heartless did, except he had complete control, whereas Sora's control was quickly slipping away. It's more probable that when Kairi hugged Sora's Heartless that he obtained a new body and soul, similarly to how when Vanitas was born, he obtained his own body and soul from just Darkness (but in Sora's case it's Light)

And, the bolded sentence, I have no idea what you're saying there. Grammar error, or? Not being a grammar nazi, I'm just genuinely confused what the means.

 

[sora364]

If he does, it's a fusion of other people's hearts. The only hearts in Apprentice Xehanort are Terra's, Xehanort's and Eraqus'.

Exactly. That's why I edited my post before someone called me out on that tidbit I did not mention (which you did.)

He was a lot different. Sora became a Shadow and Ansem SoD managed to retain some sort of form reminiscent of what a human was.

Picture was unnecessary. I said this for a reason:

Identical to Sora in COM

Sora retained his sense of being whilst being a Heartless, same as Xehanort. That was the point. And I erected this statement to further confirm Apprentice Xehanort as a single heart, not 3 unfused hearts walking around in a cloak possessing Riku.

Wut.

Are you trying to say that Xehanort's Apprentice had his own specific heart, and that's why Xemnas exists?

Duh.

EDIT: Wait...what? I'm not even sure I understand what this means :/ Let me better clarify:

When you extract Lea's heart: you get Axel. When you extract Braig's heart: you get Xigbar. When you extract Apprentice Xehanort's heart: you get Xemnas.

No wut.

Apprentice Xehanort is Terra's body with three hearts. That's what he is.

You missed my point entirely. He is a SINGLE heart. I edited my post just before you posted to acknowledge the fact that his heart is nothing more than a melding of other hearts.

And is it just me...or do all of you seem to ignore AnsemSod's existence as a single heart?

 

[Luap]

What?!
Sora, Ventus, and Kairi didn't merge their hearts for their to be a Nobody? Why would the situation be any different with MX, Terra, and Eraqus?!

edit:
You ninja'd with an edit.
Lemme reply to your edit before you reply.

When you extract Lea's heart: you get Axel. When you extract Braig's heart: you get Xigbar. When you extract Apprentice Xehanort's heart: you get Xemnas.

With Lea and Braig you had normal human beings. So, of course their own Nobodies would be their own.
With XA, you don't have a normal human being. You have 3 hearts in one body. Just as it was with Sora, Kairi, and Ventus, it's going to be sorted out in an unnatural way. The hearts do not need to be merged.

 

[sora364]

What?!
Sora, Ventus, and Kairi didn't merge their hearts for their to be a Nobody?

Wait...what? ...I'm going to haphazardly assume that using this logic...Xemnas would be Terra's Nobody first and foremost...because you drew the incomparable comparison for Roxas (who is nothing more than Sora's vessel with Ven's heart.) Namine's existence is unexplainable, so we can negate that. Xemnas and Roxas are "special" Nobodies for a reason. Roxas because he has a heart. Xemnas because his original persona was the amalgamation of 2 (possibly 3) hearts. Sora, Ven, and Kairi's heart never fused to create a being who is neither of them. They remained separate. ...So I am not sure where you are trying to go with this.

Why would the situation be any different with MX, Terra, and Eraqus?!

Because their hearts clearly merged, evidenced by Terra-Xehanort's final sentence before plummeting into the Realm of Darkness and Ansem Seeker of Darkness'/Xehanort's Heartless' existence.

With Lea and Braig you had normal human beings. So, of course their own Nobodies would be their own.
With XA, you don't have a normal human being. You have 3 hearts in one body. Just as it was with Sora, Kairi, and Ventus, it's going to be sorted out in an unnatural way. The hearts do not need to be merged.

I do not understand what part of this is so intangible. In Apprentice Xehanort's case, the hearts must be merged, because a single heartless was created upon separation from the vessel: not 3. If you are going to abide by this understanding of the principle: please tell me which heart among the three became Xehanort's Heartless (as you claim, they did not merge.)

1. Master Xehanort

2. Terra

3. Eraqus

You can only select one. And also, please tell me what happened to the remaining two hearts which were in Apprentice Xehanort's vessel if they remained unfused. Clearly they went elsewhere. I will recant my earlier statements if you can thoroughly answer this. :biggrin:

 

[Taochan]

Oh dear lord, you're throwing this heart merging around like it's honest to god fact when it's a theory. If you were throwing it around as a theory I'm sure we could roll with it but you're not.

BUT LET'S JUST POINT THIS OUT AND ADD ONTO WHAT LUAP HAS ALREADY TOLD YOU.

Sora's body contained his own heart, Ventus' heart and Kairi's heart, yes? When Sora became a Heartless, Kairi's heart returned to her, creating Namine and Ventus' heart remained in Sora's body creating Roxas.

Well let's just say for theory's sake (since NO ONE KNOWS where these hearts are located), that Eraqus, Terra and Xehanort's hearts did something fairly similar.

Lets say Xehanort's heart became Ansem SoD the Heartless, like Sora became the Shadow Heartless. And let's say Terra's heart remained in his body which became the Nobody Xemnas. I'm basing that off of Xemnas' obsession with finding the Chamber of Waking and having Aqua's armor lying around. So where is Eraqus' heart? Well that's a situation where I could see it merging with Terra's heart.

I'm basing this off of what all of the games have given me but even then it's just a theory. Your theory has come off like you know for sure what's happened and it just seems to be mixing facts from the games completely up. :/

 

[sora364]

Oh dear lord, you're throwing this heart merging around like it's honest to god fact when it's a theory. If you were throwing it around as a theory I'm sure we could roll with it but you're not.

I initially made a long witty rebuttal, but it was lost. So I am just going to wrap this up via WORD OF GOD, because I grow weary of debating with people who clearly know nothing of the canon. :/

KH's Ansem (Xehanort) seems to have thoroughly gotten rid of his own heart, but Xemnas (Xehanort) commanding Organization XIII is seeking a fresh heart. If I understand that in becoming a heartless and a nobody, they became 2 different people, would their minds then as well become separate? Also, the original Xehanort should have some memory loss but in the additional scenes this time there seem to be some questionable parts. Have his memories returned, or perhaps the memory loss itself was a lie?

Nomura: In essence, the two are the same. However, they function under separate minds. Xehanort most certainly got rid of his heart, and at that time it's assumed a Nobody was born.

Are you still denying that Apprentice Xehanort did not have HIS OWN heart? Because Nomura clearly in bold print just stated he did.

Now, let's try this again :biggrin:

-- In "KHI", the robed man, Ansem the Wise's apprentice Xehanort's Heartless (the body of Xehanort's Heartless before he inhabited Riku's body), appeared on the Destiny Islands. Is this because it was Master Xehanort's homeworld?

Nomura: That may be one reason, but if he somehow had some of Terra's memories, we can consider that it might be because he had laid eyes on Riku previously.

Why would AnsemSod have "Terra's memories?" BECAUSE HE IS PART TERRA. IT IS BLATANTLY AS IN YOUR FACE AS THESE OBNOXIOUS ALL CAPS. The same applies to Master Xehanort, who "may" have been in a factor, because he too is comprised of Apprentice Xehanort's heart.

If you attempt to somehow debunk Nomura's statements...they I am afraid I will not be reciprocating a response. :/

Apprentice Xehanort has his own heart. Period. End of discussion.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Sora's body contained his own heart, Ventus' heart and Kairi's heart, yes? When Sora became a Heartless, Kairi's heart returned to her, creating Namine and Ventus' heart remained in Sora's body creating Roxas.

Well let's just say for theory's sake (since NO ONE KNOWS where these hearts are located), that Eraqus, Terra and Xehanort's hearts did something fairly similar.

Lets say Xehanort's heart became Ansem SoD the Heartless, like Sora became the Shadow Heartless. And let's say Terra's heart remained in his body which became the Nobody Xemnas. I'm basing that off of Xemnas' obsession with finding the Chamber of Waking and having Aqua's armor lying around. So where is Eraqus' heart? Well that's a situation where I could see it merging with Terra's heart.

I'm basing this off of what all of the games have given me but even then it's just a theory. Your theory has come off like you know for sure what's happened and it just seems to be mixing facts from the games completely up. :/

Oops, Taochan, you made a glaring error there. ^__^
It's true that Kairi's heart created Naminé, yes, and that Ventus's heart remained in Sora's body is also true, but Ven's heart didn't create Roxas, it only warped Sora's body to look like Ven.
Sora's heart created Roxas because Roxas is Sora's nobody, not Ven's. Sora's heart was the one that was lost, so it created a nobody.

Why would Terra's heart remain in its body when Apprentice Xehanort fell to darkness? It makes no sense because then we would get Terra if only Master Xehanort's heart fell and became Ansem SoD.
Terra's heart isn't crippled like Ven's.
Xemnas's obsession with Aqua's armor stems from his desire to recover memories of his past lives to which her armor is a connection. We don't know his motivations for his obsessive search for the chamber of Waking yet.

Nonetheless, as long as we don't get a definitive answer on how the memories and powers of Xehanort, Terra and Eraqus were divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas, all we can do is speculate.
There are indicators though that Ansem SoD isn't solely Xehanort due to the notion of something of Terra maybe remaining in Riku after Ansem SoD was purged in KH2.

 

[MASTER260]

I believe that it's Xehanort's Nobody since Master Xehanort's influence has affected a majority of Xemnas's motives (aside from his intentions involving the Chamber of Repose and etc.).

Well, I don't really think that he had MX's influence so much as he had Terranort's influence, who himself had MX's influence. You see, all Xemnas remembers is his time as Terranort, who was constantly being influenced by MX, so he probably acted evil cuz that's all he knows...

It may have, "technically," been Terra's vessel

That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Tails_Night]

Does this look like terra's personality to you? Absolute - The Keyhole - A world of information not accessible by Gummiship If that represents the wielders personality... Nough said.

 

[Genocide]

Stop treating the crap you say as facts
i cannot stand certain khinsider posters such as you.

We hate you too.

you know who you remind me of? a young audo. LOL! smug little posters like you are ridiculous.

Hold, bitch say WHAAAAT?!

I know you're not gonna insult me by going to little Kris-tal's bitch ass when I'm standing right here. I gave you 2x more grief than Ow-dee. You'd best come correct and check yourself fo you wreck yourself.

"Yeah there hearts merged. fact." sorry but not one point during the game it mentions that nor even blank points suggested that

Blank Points did paint MX as the invader of Terra trying to take control. BBS back it up.

As Terranort, Xehanort was still in direct control. He gained immediate control over the body and in escence, hasn't let go. And he's fighting Terra for contol over his heart.

What happened was MX tried to force Terra out of his body but failed both. Later on when the new Xehanort was born MX goes on saying how NOW, NOW. NOW. NOW @ THIS POINT that he can absorb Terra's heart.

At some point, Terra's heart was overcome. While it's not blatantly said, it's one of those thing you should already know; like BFU being Riku.

Because Xemnas' motives are more Terra based, while ASoD's motives were MX based. Nomura has given reason for this to be true. Xehanort's heart had to be one heart, or, like Roxas and Namine, more than one Nobody woul be created.

also you are completely wrong on there hearts merging that Apprentice Xehanort has 1 new heart because by the time the new Xehanort was born, TERRA AND MASTER XEHANORT ARE STILL DISCUSSING WHO TAKES OVER THE BODY.

Um, Master Xehanort had immediate control over the body from the second his heart penetrated Terra. [lol]

What I think hapened was TLS put a hurting on Terranort, which knocked out both Terra and Xehanort. And during this period of dormancy, is when that conversation in Blank Points took place. Then Terra "woke up" first, but by that time, enough of Xehanort had taken over [or Terra genuinely forgot, Or Terra stayed with TLS. It doesn't matter in the direct since of it. What matters is Terra was the one who woke up first, but was "stunted" in some manner] for Terra to really think that he's Xehanort.

Then Xehanort woke up and wrested control from Terra, forcing Terra into dormancy. Cue the heart losing, cue the Organization 1-8, cuse Mickey and Ansem screweing like, I mean, talking. [yeah, talking. That's it. <.<'' >.>''] cue KH1
~

Half assed theory aside, ASoD's motives are like MX and Terra's are more like Terra's, but both are different shades of gray as they are both Xehanort as well. And I mean Apprentice Xehanort.

But to answer the thread, in the strictest and directest sense, yes. Xemnas is Terra. The body that became Xehanort is an amalgamation of MX's heart in Terra's body. It was originally Terra's to begin with. Xemnas is Terra's nobody in the sense that Roxas is Sora's nobody. When that body was 6, Terra bathed it, not MX nor AX. It is literraly Terra's body.

It IS Terra's body and soul. The contents of that vessel's mind literally has to do with the amalgamation that was Xehanort. Xehanort was comprised of three people and they became one.
~

And to whoever said Ven's heart warped Roxas' appearance, it actually warped Sora's appearance to look like Ven whe Sora's heart was born.

 

[Tails_Night]

Wow hostility... and I don't think they're treating it as crap... it's how you make your opinion more strong, by backing it up with facts and confidence... which really helps in a theory slinging environment.

 

[Genocide]

Does this look like terra's personality to you? Absolute - The Keyhole - A world of information not accessible by Gummiship If that represents the wielders personality... Nough said.

That site is unreliable at best. So I wouldn't rely on info of this magnitude to that site.
I know from personal experience as a former edditor and seeing so many post things based on opinion and not fact.

 

[Nayru's Love]

To be fair, I can understand where Samhain is coming from with the whole "Their hearts didn't merge" argument. We've seen an actual situation where hearts did in fact merge, that being Venitas. There are two concepts I generally see when it comes to Xehanort theories: Heart absorption and hearts sleeping within hearts. I won't argue that the former is improbable, but I will say that it's more speculative than the latter.

Also, I'm beginning to question XH's status as a Heartless.

Because Xemnas' motives are more Terra based, while ASoD's motives were MX based. Nomura has given reason for this to be true.

I think both XH's and Xemnas' motives were more MX-based.

 

[Samhain]

I'm not bothering to reply to Sora, because he's a smug moron.

The last thing this board needs is more imbeciles like that who treat everything they say as facts, which sorry it never was a fact nor it is yet. its considered a theory and always be considered a theory.

By the way Sora's argument he goes on saying "oh bla blabla if Xehanort created a heartless balbalblalbal why then Terra or Eraqus didnt make a heartless blalablala"

Well for one thing its explained for Eraqus seeing how his heart is part of Terra. See we KNOW for a fact there hearts merged. thats explained CLEARLY. Terra absorbed Eraqus heart. Unlike with Xehanort & Terra's heart they have NOT merged. i am sick of idiots like Sora treating it as fact when it always will be just a theory until confirmed as fact. how did Terra's heart not become a heartless?

i believe that when Terranort stabbed himself he caused Master Xehanort (the controller of the Apprentice Xehanort's body to lose memories). i also think in the process he locked Terra's heart sort of how Ven's heart was locked in Sora's. when AX released his heart, and because Terra's heart was lying dormat it didnt produce a heartless but still went to XH.

OR Terra's locked heart stood within the shell and created Xemnas and Xemnas does have a heart which is why he can wield the keyblade but the reason why he's more MX based is because of the influence and memories of Apprentice Xehanort and how MX was more of the controller of the body and how Terra's locked heart is just that. locked and can't do much but also explains why Xemnas has memories of Terra because he still has Terra's heart within him

So smug Sora, instead of going on thinking you know everything you have to also look at other theories instead of treating ur garbage as facts. sorry kid.

OR you can also say Terra's heart went within XH lying dormat and that's how Riku managed to get Terra's heart if he indeed has it from when XH took over him

 

[Genocide]

I think both XH's and Xemnas' motives were more MX-based.

Nomura has said ASoD's motived were MX's based and Xemnas' were Terra based.
The reason it only seems that way to you is because AX is a MX based person. MX is the more dominant.

However it only helps the official case as Xemnas appears to be gaining Terra's memories and ASoD (who remembers being AX) may be harboring MX's memories.

OR Terra's locked heart stood within the shell and created Xemnas

That seems likely, but that way Terra's heart couldn't jump to Riku.

Xemnas does have a heart which is why he can wield the keyblade

Hearts have nothing to do with it. Roxas wields the Keyblade because he is Sora's nobody.

The reason why he's more MX based is because of the influence and memories of Apprentice Xehanort and how MX was more of the controller of the body and how Terra's locked heart is just that. locked and can't do much but also explains why Xemnas has memories of Terra because he still has Terra's heart within him

I don't think that's the case. Because of memories. You don't need a heart to have memories. And since Xemnas is regaining Tera's memories, one would surmise that he's Terra's nobody.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Nomura has said ASoD's motived were MX's based and Xemnas' were Terra based.

I missed that part. You sure he flat out said that and didn't waltz around the question?

However it only helps the official case as Xemnas appears to be gaining Terra's memories and ASoD (who remembers being AX) may be harboring MX's memories.

I can't find a quote that hints at being Terra-influenced only; just about every quote also feels like it could have come from MX.

 

[Genocide]

Not Terra influenced only. You misunderstand me. He said Xemnas' goals are more Terra based. Doesn't stop him from being Xehanort's Nobody.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Forming KH to become a higher being doesn't seem very Terra-based. In fact, that was MX's goal from the start.