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Dark Connections



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TheBucket

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So as pretty much every single person knows by now, spoilers or not, Vanitas and Riku seem to have many similarities and connections. It has yet to be bluntly explained, but I have a small theory (that probably a lot of other people have figured out, too.)

So now the spoilers, we know after BBS that Vanitas and Riku don't really have any connection to one another at all (there is a distant one that links them through Xehanort, but I think the link is too far off to make this much of an influence.) So how can these two have so many resemblances, mainly the Dark Suit and their personalities (this is more for Riku in KH1 than any of the others.)

I think the explanation is simply the Darkness in their hearts. This would explain the Dark Suit (as, obviously, Vanitas' heart is pure Darkness, so he would obviously wear it, and Riku wears it whenever he draws out the pure Dark powers from within his heart, as well as when it was nearly complete Darkness when posessed by Ansme SoD in KH1.)

This would also explain the changes in personality (along with the personality of the Riku Replica, based on Riku's data when accepting darkness, and therefore having much more in his heart.) I think that the more darkness in one's heart, the more..."insane" and malicious they become.

It is possible that the green "bat" eye is also a symbol of darkness in one's heart, which would explain why both Vanitas' and Master Xehanort's keyblades have them, and why the Soul Eater, a weapon made from darkness, has one.

The fighting stance may just be similar. :)

So, what are your guys' thoughts?
 
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I thought of it simply that because MX gave Vanitas that suit when he created him, Ansem SoD provided Riku with a similar one, since SoD is a incarnation of MX.
In a more far-fetched theory, it could be that due to Sora's ability to connect to peoples hearts, he could of connected to Riku which in turn, thru Ven, would give Vanitas similar traits. But idk. just a thought. dont freak out guys.
 

TheBucket

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MX didn't give Vanitas the Dark Suit. He was born with it already on, seeing as his heart was pure darkness. But as I stated in the first post, I had thought Ansem "gave" it to Riku through his connection to Vanitas, but I just think that the link is too dilluted to do something like that.

Think, it would have to go: Vanitas - Master Xehanort - Terra - Xehanort - Ansem SoD - Riku

I just think it's too far away to happen on its own through memories. So that's why I think the conclusion is that, after an immense amount of darkness infests a heart, if the person is strong-willed enough to not fall to darkness and become a Heartless, and is able to wield that darkness, it can/will manifest as the Dark Suit.
 

skyfoxx

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I just came to the conclusion that it was all coincidence. I mean, MX, Vanitas, and Riku all have the same pose. It could just mean they simply have the same pose and not have any connection at all... Riku doesn't own that pose.
As for the dark suit... they're similar... but it could easily just be explained by it being a sign of darkness. If you have darkness take over your body and take physical form, it'd look something like that. Same thing applies to their weapons having eyes.

It's all just a sign of darkness rather than the characters themselves having many connections.
So yeah, I definately agree with your post.
 
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TheBucket

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I just came to the conclusion that it was all coincidence. I mean, MX, Vanitas, and Riku all have the same pose. It could just mean they simply have the same pose and not have any connection at all... Riku doesn't own that pose.
As for the dark suit... they're similar... but it could easily just be explained by it being a sign of darkness. If you have darkness take over your body and take physical form, it'd look something like that. Same thing applies to their weapons having eyes.

It's all just a sign of darkness rather than the characters themselves having many connections.

Pretty much sums it up, yes.
 

Caxm

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No the connection is more close then you would think

Vanitas-Ven-Sora-Riku

At childhood Sora's Darkness is Riku. Wanting to be like him.
Ven could give him some traits through Sora. Riku's stance and fighting style could have been given over time. Other traits are given through darkness. The suit however is a mistery. Because Ven did not have a connection to sora at Vanitus's birth, or would he connect to Sora as soon as he was broken up?
 

Aquaman OS

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There is a connection but it's not a direct one with Vanitas and Riku. Vanitas was created by Xehanort, so he made him wearing that suit. Riku's darkness was amplified by Xehanort's heartless so his dark mode was given a similar suit. It just shows that, memory loss or not Xehanort is still the same person and thought of similar designs for the outfits of their apprentices.

The fighting poses however, are coincidence since despite having a similar neutral stance, the characters fighting styles are quite different. Riku prefers aerial combos, while Vanitas prefers to fight on the ground, or diving from above and uses elemental magic while Riku can't use any magic to speak of.
 

KeybladeCounsel

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I just came to the conclusion that it was all coincidence. I mean, MX, Vanitas, and Riku all have the same pose. It could just mean they simply have the same pose and not have any connection at all... Riku doesn't own that pose.
As for the dark suit... they're similar... but it could easily just be explained by it being a sign of darkness. If you have darkness take over your body and take physical form, it'd look something like that. Same thing applies to their weapons having eyes.

It's all just a sign of darkness rather than the characters themselves having many connections.
So yeah, I definately agree with your post.

Nothing in Kingdom Hearts happens by chance. Why would Nomura make Vanitas and Riku have similar fighting stances just for the hell of it? There has to be some complicated reason behind it that isn't just darkness.
 

Aquaman OS

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Probably for the same reason Vanitas's battle theme has Roxas Riku and Sora's theme in it. To confuse the audience as to what exactly Vanitas was and who he was connected to. Thus he had Sora's voice, but Riku's fighting stance, and a similar Keyblade to Riku.

Of course everyone figured it out almost right away, but he tried.
 

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My thoughts on the question on hand, is what the OP said, or a connection was planted by MX: "The seeds are already sown"
 

skyfoxx

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Nothing in Kingdom Hearts happens by chance. Why would Nomura make Vanitas and Riku have similar fighting stances just for the hell of it? There has to be some complicated reason behind it that isn't just darkness.

Oh gee, then by that logic Sora and Cloud are connected for having spiky hair and the same victory pose. -_-

Seriously, there doesn't have to be a complicated reason for everything ever. Why does Vanitas and Riku have similar poses? Because Nomura wanted to fool people into thinking Vanitas looked like Riku. Simple as that. And again, Riku doesn't own that pose. A LOT of video game characters with swords have that pose, doesn't mean they're all connected.

Aquaman OS said:
Of course everyone figured it out almost right away, but he tried.
Not everyone figured it out. In fact, I don't think most people even considered Sora until they saw the 2010 Jump Feasta trailer because they show the eye and hair of Vanitas's face. But even then, I was still shocked to see Sora's face behind that mask because I actually thought it would be Ven's face.
 

Caxm

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Oh gee, then by that logic Sora and Cloud are connected for having spiky hair and the same victory pose. -_-

Seriously, there doesn't have to be a complicated reason for everything ever. Why does Vanitas and Riku have similar poses? Because Nomura wanted to fool people into thinking Vanitas looked like Riku. Simple as that. And again, Riku doesn't own that pose. A LOT of video game characters with swords have that pose, doesn't mean they're all connected.


Not everyone figured it out. In fact, I don't think most people even considered Sora until they saw the 2010 Jump Feasta trailer because they show the eye and hair of Vanitas's face. But even then, I was still shocked to see Sora's face behind that mask because I actually thought it would be Ven's face.

Sarcasim isn't a good way to make friends Sky. Try to take this a little more serious.
 

TheBucket

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The only real point I was trying to make across with this was that the reason Vanitas and Riku both have a version of the Dark Suit is because of the darkness. The Suit is a manifestation of dark powers. Not that they're connected in their hearts or anything, just that they both used immense amounts of darkness, so therefore have the suit.

And also that the green eye is also a symbol of dark manifestation in the heart. Examples are Vanitas' Keyblade, Xehanort's keyblade, Terra's Chaos Reaper, and the Soul Eater. All weapons from hearts mixed with high amounts of darkness (and the Soul Eater being made of darkness.)

Basically, I just wanted to say that the connections aren't from the heart, it's that all these things are from the Darkness.
 

skyfoxx

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Sarcasim isn't a good way to make friends Sky. Try to take this a little more serious.

1. Where in the world did that come from?
2. I'm very certain you use sarcasm in your life as well.
3. Cursing out randomly isn't a good way to make friends either, Caxm
4. You have 0 friends in your friends list, so you're not the one to talk.
 

KeybladeCounsel

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Oh gee, then by that logic Sora and Cloud are connected for having spiky hair and the same victory pose. -_-

Seriously, there doesn't have to be a complicated reason for everything ever. Why does Vanitas and Riku have similar poses? Because Nomura wanted to fool people into thinking Vanitas looked like Riku. Simple as that. And again, Riku doesn't own that pose. A LOT of video game characters with swords have that pose, doesn't mean they're all connected.

Okay but we're specifically talking about Kingdom Hearts here, not every other game. Nomura gave Riku and Vanitas their similarities for a specific reason and we all know it. He would not just give Vanitas the battle stance Riku has and in interviews say, "There's no meaning behind it, I just thought it would be fun." And there's definitely more behind it than just darkness. Besides in a scan I seen before BBS was even released in Japan, I saw them doing this little mystery thing in which they showed things from KH1 and KH2 and pointed them out. Like Xehanorts picture on the wall and Riku in his dark suit and it said "Riku didn't obtain this suit by chance". If you don't remember I can go back through the old articles of the website nd try to find it but I know it said that.

Not everyone figured it out. In fact, I don't think most people even considered Sora until they saw the 2010 Jump Feasta trailer because they show the eye and hair of Vanitas's face. But even then, I was still shocked to see Sora's face behind that mask because I actually thought it would be Ven's face.

By that time, it was already announced that the guy that voices Sora was voicing Vanitas. So it was a Riku battle stance having, Riku suit wearing, Ven's face having, Sora's voice having figment of the dark half of Ven's heart? I don't think so...

Basically, I just wanted to say that the connections aren't from the heart, it's that all these things are from the Darkness.

So when Riku completely gave into the darkness after beating Roxas, how come he no longer had the suit then?
 
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skyfoxx

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By that time, it was already announced that the guy that voices Sora was voicing Vanitas. So it was a Riku battle stance having, Riku suit wearing, Ven's face having, Sora's voice having figment of the dark half of Ven's heart? I don't think so...

But only those who wanted spoilers would've known about Vanitas's VA in the first place.
 

KeybladeCounsel

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But only those who wanted spoilers would've known about Vanitas's VA in the first place.

But it was clearly his voice in the Jump Festa 2010 trailer. Just like we know Haley Joel Osment is voicing him now just from a trailer...
 

skyfoxx

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But it was clearly his voice in the Jump Festa 2010 trailer. Just like we know Haley Joel Osment is voicing him now just from a trailer...

Not really. The JAP voice for Vanitas actually desguised his voice well and when I compare it to the JAP Sora voice, it doesn't sound similar at all. It sounded more like JAP Riku than JAP Sora... but as for HJO... he sounds EXACTLY like Sora.
 

TheBucket

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So when Riku completely gave into the darkness after beating Roxas, how come he no longer had the suit then?

Because it was something even further. Because it wasn't just the darkness he was giving in to, but the Ansem that was left inside of him. He was drawing out Ansem's dark powers, not simply the darkness.
 
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