How should the characters be treated going forward

[Scoobert_Doobert]

Kingdom Hearts started with a pretty small cast of main and side characters, but as the series has continued over the years, that cast of characters has grown pretty large.

A lot of people seemed to be pretty upset by the lack of attention that characters other than Sora received in KH3, but when I thought about, I'm not sure how the developers could have given deserving time to every character they established in one game without the story becoming an even bigger mess than already was. (not saying it was a bad story, just kind of all over the place)

So how do you think they should handle all the other characters going forward? Should they be given their own games like what's been done in past titles, or should the developers take a risk and try to make some 60 hour gargantuan JRPG that gives proper time to everyone at once?

 

[okhi12]

More screen time for side characters would be great, but the most important thing is their purpose as part of the story. If they don't appear a lot, at least let them do something important other than filling space and saying three lines.

I'm ok with giving them their own games if there's a way to effectively tie them to the main story which doesn't feel forced, but not if these plots deviate a lot from the main story and it means delaying the numbered games.

I have this impossible wish that is Nomura staying focused and closing -at least- as many plot points as he opens.

 

[Vulpes XIII]

As nice as it would be for everyone to have there own game and get proper development It’s never going to happen and considering that’s the case and since It seems like Nomura isn’t able to manage character development with such a large cast of characters. In my opinion It would probably be better if Nomura doesn’t bother with characters who he doesn’t intend to use for the next arc and shouldn’t make characters reappear based on popularity alone. I wish this wasn’t the case as there is games were the developers have manage to do a great job at developing multiple characters at once but this isn’t the case with Kingdom Hearts and as much as I would really like to keep seeing some of my favourite characters like Roxas and Xion in future games, they honestly shouldn’t be brought back as their arcs are complete and if characters like them are brought back due to popularity other characters development will suffer.

We have characters like Kairi who should be getting development as she should be important to the story giving she is Sora love interest, Princess of Heart and one of the Guardians of Light, but Nomura still chooses to ignore her. Then we have the character development of members 9-12 who have been around since Chain of Memories/ KH2 and we are only starting to learn about Lauriam and Elrena and we still know nothing about who Luxord and Demyx were, plus we have new characters like Yozora who need developed and it’s clear Nomura can’t handle all of them.

 

[Clue.Less]

Kingdom Hearts started with a pretty small cast of main and side characters, but as the series has continued over the years, that cast of characters has grown pretty large.

A lot of people seemed to be pretty upset by the lack of attention that characters other than Sora received in KH3, but when I thought about, I'm not sure how the developers could have given deserving time to every character they established in one game without the story becoming an even bigger mess than already was. (not saying it was a bad story, just kind of all over the place)

So how do you think they should handle all the other characters going forward? Should they be given their own games like what's been done in past titles, or should the developers take a risk and try to make some 60 hour gargantuan JRPG that gives proper time to everyone at once?

A 60 hour gargantuan JRPG sounds like the perfect game to me! Bring it on!

KH3 would have been perfect to me if the Riku segments and Merlin's forest had been fully playable segments instead of exposition dumping like the second Kairi/Axel scene. Nothing "much" to change. The story might have given a little less of a messy impression had some side characters been the ones to do what we did as sora (like saving Aqua). It was meant to be a gathering of characters (see the cover art).

Anyway I think/hope some characters won't be back, don't need to be back, like the Twilight gang. Except maybe as cameos in cut scenes. We'll see.

 

[Scoobert_Doobert]

As nice as it would be for everyone to have there own game and get proper development It’s never going to happen and considering that’s the case and since It seems like Nomura isn’t able to manage character development with such a large cast of characters. In my opinion It would probably be better if Nomura doesn’t bother with characters who he doesn’t intend to use for the next arc and shouldn’t make characters reappear based on popularity alone. I wish this wasn’t the case as there is games were the developers have manage to do a great job at developing multiple characters at once but this isn’t the case with Kingdom Hearts and as much as I would really like to keep seeing some of my favourite characters like Roxas and Xion in future games, they honestly shouldn’t be brought back as their arcs are complete and if characters like them are brought back due to popularity other characters development will suffer.

We have characters like Kairi who should be getting development as she should be important to the story giving she is Sora love interest, Princess of Heart and one of the Guardians of Light, but Nomura still chooses to ignore her. Then we have the character development of members 9-12 who have been around since Chain of Memories/ KH2 and we are only starting to learn about Lauriam and Elrena and we still know nothing about who Luxord and Demyx were, plus we have new characters like Yozora who need developed and it’s clear Nomura can’t handle all of them.

Interesting that you say Roxas and Xion's arcs are complete, because I thought they were complete after Days and KH2. Now that they're alive again, I feel like they're characters can be taken in a whole bunch of new directions. Not that Nomura and the writing team are necessarily going to take them in a good direction, but I am a little optimistic.

I think Kairi is slowly but surely getting more attention and respect from the Nomura, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how they treat her character in the next game she's in. Hopefully we might actually get to play has her for a sustained campaign.

A 60 hour gargantuan JRPG sounds like the perfect game to me! Bring it on!

KH3 would have been perfect to me if the Riku segments and Merlin's forest had been fully playable segments instead of exposition dumping like the second Kairi/Axel scene. Nothing "much" to change. The story might have given a little less of a messy impression had some side characters been the ones to do what we did as sora (like saving Aqua). It was meant to be a gathering of characters (see the cover art).

Anyway I think/hope some characters won't be back, don't need to be back, like the Twilight gang. Except maybe as cameos in cut scenes. We'll see.

I liked a lot about KH3. Sora is my favorite character, so I didn't really have as much to complain about as fans of other characters did.

I hope all the characters come back eventually. Even if it's only in books or cutscene movies that are made by a third party. The KH universe is expansive enough nowadays that I don't see why every mainstay character can't be allowed to shine in some way

 

[Keyblade Knight 1st Class]

A 60 hour gargantuan JRPG sounds like the perfect game to me! Bring it on!

I totally agree and I wouldn't mind if it was pushed to 100+ hours.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

A lot of people seemed to be pretty upset by the lack of attention that characters other than Sora received in KH3, but when I thought about, I'm not sure how the developers could have given deserving time to every character they established in one game without the story becoming an even bigger mess than already was. (not saying it was a bad story, just kind of all over the place)

It depends (like anything, really.)
KH3 has horrible pacing issues, with it essentially walking in place for the majority of the game and then tries doing too much at once by the end. A lot of it likely having to do with them pretty much losing 2 years of development and Disney breathing down their necks, and Disney worlds always take priority.

Also how Nomura just doesn't seem to care about characters after their first appearance...

So how do you think they should handle all the other characters going forward? Should they be given their own games like what's been done in past titles, or should the developers take a risk and try to make some 60 hour gargantuan JRPG that gives proper time to everyone at once?

There's no reason for KH having to be 20 hour games nor for all the story to be mandatory. Even if the mandatory part is usual length, optional side stories or cutscenes could do wonders.

Still mad we couldn't call characters on the Gummiphone.

 

[Clue.Less]

Still mad we couldn't call characters on the Gummiphone.

Imagine if we could switch characters by making a phone call, like in

Spoiler Show

ff7r

, and briefly play with the other team...

 

[Keyblade Knight 1st Class]

There's no reason for KH having to be 20 hour games nor for all the story to be mandatory. Even if the mandatory part is usual length, optional side stories or cutscenes could do wonders.

I think Final Fantasy XV is a perfect example of this. The main story itself is about 20-30 hours but thanks to side content (most of which have stories of their own) you can easily spend upwards to 80+ hours on the game. And if it's good enough for Final Fantasy, then it should be good enough for Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Katsagu]

As much as I like having a ton of playable characters, I hope they focus on one or 2 characters honestly. I feel like the need to have so many characters be playable would take from the depth that the combat can have. I want to play as another character, but only if they have a complete kit full of abilities that I can costumize or change like sora in KH1-2-3.

That being said, when it comes to plot. I really really hope Nomura just leaves the twilight gang alone going forward, let them enjoy their neverending summer vacation, I still defend their story should have ended with 2. Unfortunately taking into consideration the developments from 3 surrounding Axel and Isa, I don't see that happening... I have also defended that the wayfinder trio should take a backseat and maybe become teachers to a new generation of keyblade wielders. But taking into account Ven's development in chi I don't see that happening...

I don't see how developing 10 characters + villains and a totally new story can work taking into consideration we are talking about a game series where development of a new game takes at least 3-4 years.

There's no reason for KH having to be 20 hour games nor for all the story to be mandatory. Even if the mandatory part is usual length, optional side stories or cutscenes could do wonders.

I like this idea, maybe sidestories were you would go with certain characters as party members and maybe the cutscenes weren't all "full blown cutscenes" so it could be easier to develop. This could work.

 

[Dark Rot]

I like JRPGs with huge casts and sprawling stories. KH should absolutely go for that. However, were that to happen, I'd like a stronger focus on Disney, FF, and NEW original characters with completely original designs. No coats, no doppelgangers. Aside from Sora and Riku, for now we're stuck with Yozora, Braig, Luxord, Kairi and inevitably Xehanort somehow. Beyond them, I feel like only Namine and Terra still have some pathos to offer. Because most of the original cast in KH has been miserable villains, miserable clones and quaintly agreeable hometown friends, there's not enough to work with. I want characters who are: rambunctious, wise, sassy, sensuous, cunning, manly, expressive, over-the-top, humorous, furious, deep, dynamic, and passionate. We should see a full spectrum of personalities. The Disney characters shouldn't be the only weirdoes, and the FF characters shouldn't be the only ones with some implied depth.

 

[Xagzan]

I hope this is the right thread for this take. Lately I've been watching a little bit of SarahKey playing Persona 4 on twitch. I have no other experience with the Persona franchise, but from what little I've seen, and as a KH fan it bums me to say this, this game depicts scenes of friendship more believably and in-depth than almost anything we've ever had in KH, a series ostensibly about friendship. The closest we've come was Days, or the KH2 prologue. KH could desperately use scenes like this going forward, interactions that actually show the cast being friends (instead of just talking about it), and doing mundane, relatable things. Stuff to break up all the more esoteric elements of dark and light and hearts and powers of waking etc.

Now that most of the trios have returned and reunited, KH could actually do this if it was interested. After all the conflict and distress and separation they put Roxas, Xion, and all the rest through, show us the payoff. Give us compelling character content. A 10 second frisbee game and Xion and Namine wordlessly collecting seashells at the end of KH3 isn't remotely enough for all those years we invested. Now that I've seen Persona, I want nothing more than a richer level of interaction from KH's cast, who are certainly a stronger element than the story at this point.

 

[KingdomKurdistan]

Like actual people.

 

[Swing]

To be honest, in my opinion, they should decrease the number of characters for this franchise and should only pick the ones that they need for the story. KH has the same issue as the Sonic-Series. It has way too many characters now. I would only choose Sora, maybe Riku, since he is a fan favorite and Aqua for the same reason. It seems like these three characters got all the focus lately. Roxas' story has come to an end. There is not much else you can do with him. Actually, most of the characters got their happy ending. Riku and Aqua might still have the potential to be explored deeper. As for Sora. He always felt more like the white knight that comes to the rescue. He technically never was really a big part of the overall plot, since he has no real emotional connection to the villains.

 

[Elysium]

I wish he'd dump everyone other than Sora and Riku, really, although I do like several of the others. I just don't see Nomura ever being able to make a SDG-lead game where all the original characters get proper attention (not that it isn't possible, just that he isn't capable or at least isn't willing to put in the effort), and I'm not interested in the franchise having a bunch of games where ATV or RAX or someone other than Sora and/or Riku are the main character.

 

[Absent]

I hope this is the right thread for this take. Lately I've been watching a little bit of SarahKey playing Persona 4 on twitch. I have no other experience with the Persona franchise, but from what little I've seen, and as a KH fan it bums me to say this, this game depicts scenes of friendship more believably and in-depth than almost anything we've ever had in KH, a series ostensibly about friendship. The closest we've come was Days, or the KH2 prologue. KH could desperately use scenes like this going forward, interactions that actually show the cast being friends (instead of just talking about it), and doing mundane, relatable things. Stuff to break up all the more esoteric elements of dark and light and hearts and powers of waking etc.

Now that most of the trios have returned and reunited, KH could actually do this if it was interested. After all the conflict and distress and separation they put Roxas, Xion, and all the rest through, show us the payoff. Give us compelling character content. A 10 second frisbee game and Xion and Namine wordlessly collecting seashells at the end of KH3 isn't remotely enough for all those years we invested. Now that I've seen Persona, I want nothing more than a richer level of interaction from KH's cast, who are certainly a stronger element than the story at this point.

I had a similar experience. My growing dislike for the story came around the same time I started reading religiously and took writing classes.
Obviously Nomura and crew have their styles but their presentation of this series has been mostly misses for me.

My 9th English teacher always joked that reading is the best and worst thing that can happen to you. You discover a whole new literary world full of endless potential, BUT you realize that a lot media has shit writing.

 

[Xagzan]

I had a similar experience. My growing dislike for the story came around the same time I started reading religiously and took writing classes.
Obviously Nomura and crew have their styles but their presentation of this series has been mostly misses for me.

I mean, I just started tuning it out when they introduced dreams and time travel and time travel in dreams. Not that it was simple before, but it was at least coherent. So now I just focus predominantly on the characters. And I actually don't think there needs to be a reduction in their number. *flashback to Naruto and Bleach* Nah we don't have too many characters lol. It could trend that way if they were to keep introducing new ones for new arcs, but that's why I wasn't completely against them bringing Ven and Marluxia and others into the Union X past. It meant we could continue exploring an established cast and wouldn't be subjected to even more new people who would then also be tossed aside at the end of the next saga.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

The extended cast should interact with each other more often outside of their designated trio's. I want to see Terra and Roxas form a friendship, Ventus getting to know Kairi better whilst training her under Aqua's request, Lea and Isa befriending Lauriam and Elrena, Ansem the Wise taking in Hayner, Pence and Olette as apprentices etc. There's a lot of remixing of character dynamics that can be implemented especially now that Sora and Riku are no longer involved within the Kingdom Hearts reality.

 

[2 quid is good]

KH has the same issue as the Sonic-Series. It has way too many characters now.

Man. It's 2021 and "Sonic has too many friends!" is still seen as a legitimate criticism of the games. I can't think of a single mainline or spin off sonic game since 2009 til now that
a) Used anyone outside of Tails/Knuckles
b) Characterised ANY character properly despite said characters having a literal handful of lines
or c) had any type of playable character that was not some variation of Sonic (I guess Forces wins here)

KH does have the same issue as Sonic - they both have many characters that they aren't willing to utilise properly at all, however unlike in KH, there's very few characters that feel like bloat to me in Sonic, probably because that ones that do hardly get a showing, and yeah this point was aimed at Big the Cat

 

[NoWay]

In my opinion the future KH games should always consist of sections where you play (not fight, but play and explore) the game as different characters in order to tell the story. In KH3 I really would have liked to play the RoD segment as Riku. And going forward I think we need at least 2 different characters which we can play throughout the game to tell the story better. Not like DDD where you play the same world twice but more like BBS where every character can explore different areas of a world.

I mean imagine a situation like this: the next game is mainly about Riku in Quadratum. We play like 4hrs as Riku and after that we continue to play as Kairi which is training with Aqua. They could even go into some Disney worlds to fulfill some quests like saving some of the new 7 princesses from the Heartless or something like that. After that we could continue to play as Riku. And in the end both Riku, Kairi and Aqua could team up in Quadratum for the final segment of the new game.

Hell you could even incorporate 1-2hrs of gameplay with Micky in Scala ad Caelum.

One can only dream. In the end the next game is fully focusing on Riku in Quadratum without any exposition on how Kairi or Micky are doing.

Orrrrr they make a BBS2 with 3 different playable characters.

a) Riku in Quadratum
b) Kairi and Aqua traveling to Disney worlds
c) Micky, Donald and Goofy in Scala ad Caelum