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How would you alter/improve the Kingdom Hearts series?



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VoidGear.

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Turning it around, from where do you get the impression that there wasn't peace?
As far as we know problems that started to involve multiple worlds and which posed a serious threat to the order of the current universe were not an issue until Xehanort started his crazy and wacky plans.

Oh, don't get me wrong, people living in the light surely were in a peace-state. If everything had been perfectly fine and equal, there would be no reason for a war, whatever kind of war it is.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Oh, don't get me wrong, people living in the light surely were in a peace-state. If everything had been perfectly fine and equal, there would be no reason for a war, whatever kind of war it is.
There was no universal war (that we know of) between the worlds being divided at the end of the Keyblade War and Xehanort starting his Heartless invasion after Birth by Sleep.
 

VoidGear.

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There was no universal war (that we know of) between the worlds being divided at the end of the Keyblade War and Xehanort starting his Heartless invasion after Birth by Sleep.

No war still doesn't mean that everyone lived happily and in peace all the time.

If I look at people like Eraqus who despise the darkness like nothing else, and then at the way it influences characters like Terra, I just don't see how there wouldn't be any evil/peace-breakers without Xehanort.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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No war still doesn't mean that everyone lived happily and in peace all the time.

If I look at people like Eraqus who despise the darkness like nothing else, and then at the way it influences characters like Terra, I just don't see how there wouldn't be any evil/peace-breakers without Xehanort.

I think that what was being said was the the worlds were at a state of peace with the Darkness, despite having their own conflicts, those conflicts were isolated and contained from world-to-world and the Heartless weren't destroying or invading them. That part is 100% Xehanort's fault. That doesn't mean the worlds themselves were free from strife or war or unhappiness, and at some point I'm sure someone else would have plunged the worlds into darkness, but this time it was at Xehanort's hand
 

DarkosOverlord

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While I personally never especially mentioned war and peace, I still see the Worlds being separated and deprived of the True Light as a bad thing.
That's how KH1 presented it, before they obviously needed to justify intergalactic travel in future games and did the asspull of "Nah, there are Lanes you can use freely, knock yourself out."

The rule of not telling other people about Worlds (also another concept really gotten loose in the franchise, especially in KH II), the fact that Sora wouldìve never seen Leon and the others again, making Ansem's defeat a bittersweet victory... you really felt how the Worlds' isolation was a bad thing.
As I said it was really dampened with time, but I still think it's almost Unchained's "Bad Ending", something that needs to be fixed.

Also, the current state is a contingency plan from an overflow of Darkness that would've swept away everything, meaning talking about a universe-scale war isn't exactly out of place here.
 

WhinyAcademic

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*cracks knuckles*

* Give the series more consequences, particularly in terms of death. The "there is no concept of death" line was one of the most disappointing things I've ever heard from Nomura. This basically means that everyone who has "died" will come back. I don't mean like the Nobodies/Somebodies, that was given an acceptable explanation. But stuff like DiZ surviving KH2, Eraqus somehow surviving in Terra's heart, basically the legit "deaths" of the series being undone. If there aren't any deaths for anyone besides the villains, then the story loses suspense and gravitas. I know it's Disney and they have this love of fakeout deaths, but come on.

* Speaking of Disney, make the worlds and their plots more relevant to the overall plot. KH1 did a great job at this because if nothing else, in the worlds we traveled to, we were eliminating a member of Maleficent's cabal. Come KH2, we're taking part in watered down versions of movies and ultimately doing a disservice to them in my opinion. It gets really annoying to have to wait for the end of a world for there to be a cutscene advancing the main plot.

* III is said to be remedying this problem, but good lord, the lack of NPC's is really annoying. "Listen to that crowd!" *camera shows the coliseum is empty* What were they thinking?

* Give some characters some desperately needed facial animation. Scar in particular looked terrible.
 

Hirokey123

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I felt DDD did a really good job incorporating the disney plots into the main plot as well. A Xehanort appeared in every Disney world and they were the ones guiding Sora to those worlds because they wanted to "teach" him things.

-Taking Sora to La Cite Des Cloches to show him someone who made their heart a prison by introducing him to Quasi, the scold him for being a hypocrite for trying to give Quasi advice on the matter.
-Taking Sora to Prankster's Paradise to use Pinocchio to teach him about empty vessels growing hearts.
-Taking Sora to The Grid to basically enjoy his pain in having to watch his friend Tron (well a version of him anyway) be enslaved with his memories manipulated, using it as a way to explain how hearts are formed and how data differs, and then use that as a way to dissect Sora's character bit by bit to make him question if the bytes (his memories and emotions) that make him up are truly all his.
-Country of the Musketeers is a world Sora took himself to and while it didn't effect DDD's plot, it did affect the overall series plot because while Sora and Riku are training/taking the test the game is also running a side story to expand on Mickey's past so they encounter Mickey in different points of his own training to be a master. This world also shows us how Mickey and Minnie met, presumably how the boat boy became a king, and Pete's first known act of real villainy. Since the english version of KH1 onward had Donald and Goofy using "all for one and one for all" this is just sort of a happy accident that it sort of retroactively connects their use of that phrase to this world.
-Symphony of Sorcery is another world Sora took himself to, to take care of the subplot of Spellican who had Sora was chasing to defeat in order to help the TWEWY cast. Young Xehanort makes a surprise appearance to clarify to Sora that the norts are not a dream or part of his test, and that everything was coming to an end. We also get a rare moment of character we get to see a Xehanort show genuine appreciation for the natural beauty and wonder of a world....the fact he crushes a petal in the wind is also actually important to because it subtly connect to something data Ansem the Wise says later on "the petals in the wind, there are hearts all around us and it doesn't take superpowers to see them" because then basically it means in this scene it highlights even as a kid Xehanort wasn't capable of seeing the hearts that surround him and when he crushed that tiny petal if it was real he would of been crushing a tiny little heart. Oh also it's kind of a fake out, because Yensid's tower is suppose to where we appear when the quest is over so getting this fake out and then the pull a DOUBLE fake out when you think "okay now for the real tower" only to pop into TWTNW.

Riku's story wasn't so connected because the Xehanorts were mostly ignoring him but even then every Disney world for the most part still felt meaningful.

-La Cite Des Cloches he runs into Frollo and has to face a person who in their obsession had fallen so deep into darkness he can't be reasoned with, like Riku once was. He also gets to meet AnsemSoD who basically exists to remind him of that and get Riku thinking about the things he keeps locked inside his heart he is trying to figure out what to do. Oh and of course his whole speech to Quasi "Go out there and get some real friends, trust me a true friend will be able to see you for who you are no matter what you look like" a beautiful showing of the lesson he learned back in KH2.
-The Grid he basically meets a guy, Flynn, who is very much like Xehanort. It makes Riku muse over how Flynn's single minded desire to find some greater answer caused him to lose sight of the danger and created CLU, is the same as how Xehanort lost himself in obsession and created Ansem...and how easy it is for anyone to create an "Ansem" of their gown.
-Prankster's Paradise probably the most important world in Riku's growth because he is forced back into a record of arguably his most shameful and cold moment, back when he scoffed at Sora's talk of a "conscience". Here he gets to make it right and help Gepetto by bringing back Pinocchio and then upon talking to Jimminy he muses over that time and Sora. He realizes Sora is basically his conscience, his friend with the stupid grin who shows him right from wrong, the best teacher he could ever ask for in this department. He also is mildly shaken by seeing himself taking Pinocchio again and it forces him to reflect on how his single mistake of giving into the darkness in the past has caused him to be chased around by dark phantoms since then be it Ansem's shadow, a replica of his dark side, or literally himself.
-Country of the Musketeers while Sora's story is expanding on MDG Riku's is expanding on Minnie, it's Riku being called a hero/musketeer by Minnie which is the kind of praise Riku never really gets so that's actually pretty meaningful. It also ties into the big mystery of Riku's story, starting from the second traverse town visit the plot had shifted focus there being two worlds. This world is the first time where we the player find that Riku's actions in one world can still bleed over and affect Sora's via him stopping that trap.
-Symphony of Sorcery a lot of the same stuff as Sora except he's not here because of spellican, his story mostly focuses on giving us more Mickey Riku friendship bro time (which is nice since they have a surprisingly small amount of times they've actually talked to one another) and another evidence of Riku's actions affecting Sora's world and vise versa. Oh and it's the second time a nort appears in his story, Young Xehanort who draws him down in the dark music area, tries one last time to shake Riku, and after his failure to do so he cryptically hints that Riku will fall into the abyss soon and leaves. (which Riku ultimately does do, but Riku was drawn in with Sora so he was able to still fight his way out unlike Sora whose falling asleep caused them to drop)

I really liked the Disney World involvement in DDD, it's so rare we have Xehanort appear and actually interact or talk to/about the Disney characters and this game gave us multiple worlds of that.
 

Muke

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I felt DDD did a really good job incorporating the disney plots into the main plot as well. A Xehanort appeared in every Disney world and they were the ones guiding Sora to those worlds because they wanted to "teach" him things.

-Taking Sora to La Cite Des Cloches to show him someone who made their heart a prison by introducing him to Quasi, the scold him for being a hypocrite for trying to give Quasi advice on the matter.
-Taking Sora to Prankster's Paradise to use Pinocchio to teach him about empty vessels growing hearts.
-Taking Sora to The Grid to basically enjoy his pain in having to watch his friend Tron (well a version of him anyway) be enslaved with his memories manipulated, using it as a way to explain how hearts are formed and how data differs, and then use that as a way to dissect Sora's character bit by bit to make him question if the bytes (his memories and emotions) that make him up are truly all his.
-Country of the Musketeers is a world Sora took himself to and while it didn't effect DDD's plot, it did affect the overall series plot because while Sora and Riku are training/taking the test the game is also running a side story to expand on Mickey's past so they encounter Mickey in different points of his own training to be a master. This world also shows us how Mickey and Minnie met, presumably how the boat boy became a king, and Pete's first known act of real villainy. Since the english version of KH1 onward had Donald and Goofy using "all for one and one for all" this is just sort of a happy accident that it sort of retroactively connects their use of that phrase to this world.
-Symphony of Sorcery is another world Sora took himself to, to take care of the subplot of Spellican who had Sora was chasing to defeat in order to help the TWEWY cast. Young Xehanort makes a surprise appearance to clarify to Sora that the norts are not a dream or part of his test, and that everything was coming to an end. We also get a rare moment of character we get to see a Xehanort show genuine appreciation for the natural beauty and wonder of a world....the fact he crushes a petal in the wind is also actually important to because it subtly connect to something data Ansem the Wise says later on "the petals in the wind, there are hearts all around us and it doesn't take superpowers to see them" because then basically it means in this scene it highlights even as a kid Xehanort wasn't capable of seeing the hearts that surround him and when he crushed that tiny petal if it was real he would of been crushing a tiny little heart. Oh also it's kind of a fake out, because Yensid's tower is suppose to where we appear when the quest is over so getting this fake out and then the pull a DOUBLE fake out when you think "okay now for the real tower" only to pop into TWTNW.

Riku's story wasn't so connected because the Xehanorts were mostly ignoring him but even then every Disney world for the most part still felt meaningful.

-La Cite Des Cloches he runs into Frollo and has to face a person who in their obsession had fallen so deep into darkness he can't be reasoned with, like Riku once was. He also gets to meet AnsemSoD who basically exists to remind him of that and get Riku thinking about the things he keeps locked inside his heart he is trying to figure out what to do. Oh and of course his whole speech to Quasi "Go out there and get some real friends, trust me a true friend will be able to see you for who you are no matter what you look like" a beautiful showing of the lesson he learned back in KH2.
-The Grid he basically meets a guy, Flynn, who is very much like Xehanort. It makes Riku muse over how Flynn's single minded desire to find some greater answer caused him to lose sight of the danger and created CLU, is the same as how Xehanort lost himself in obsession and created Ansem...and how easy it is for anyone to create an "Ansem" of their gown.
-Prankster's Paradise probably the most important world in Riku's growth because he is forced back into a record of arguably his most shameful and cold moment, back when he scoffed at Sora's talk of a "conscience". Here he gets to make it right and help Gepetto by bringing back Pinocchio and then upon talking to Jimminy he muses over that time and Sora. He realizes Sora is basically his conscience, his friend with the stupid grin who shows him right from wrong, the best teacher he could ever ask for in this department. He also is mildly shaken by seeing himself taking Pinocchio again and it forces him to reflect on how his single mistake of giving into the darkness in the past has caused him to be chased around by dark phantoms since then be it Ansem's shadow, a replica of his dark side, or literally himself.
-Country of the Musketeers while Sora's story is expanding on MDG Riku's is expanding on Minnie, it's Riku being called a hero/musketeer by Minnie which is the kind of praise Riku never really gets so that's actually pretty meaningful. It also ties into the big mystery of Riku's story, starting from the second traverse town visit the plot had shifted focus there being two worlds. This world is the first time where we the player find that Riku's actions in one world can still bleed over and affect Sora's via him stopping that trap.
-Symphony of Sorcery a lot of the same stuff as Sora except he's not here because of spellican, his story mostly focuses on giving us more Mickey Riku friendship bro time (which is nice since they have a surprisingly small amount of times they've actually talked to one another) and another evidence of Riku's actions affecting Sora's world and vise versa. Oh and it's the second time a nort appears in his story, Young Xehanort who draws him down in the dark music area, tries one last time to shake Riku, and after his failure to do so he cryptically hints that Riku will fall into the abyss soon and leaves. (which Riku ultimately does do, but Riku was drawn in with Sora so he was able to still fight his way out unlike Sora whose falling asleep caused them to drop)

I really liked the Disney World involvement in DDD, it's so rare we have Xehanort appear and actually interact or talk to/about the Disney characters and this game gave us multiple worlds of that.
I really love this list and I completely agree. I feel like DDD is doing this the best (right after KH1 of course).
 

Sephiroth0812

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No war still doesn't mean that everyone lived happily and in peace all the time.

If I look at people like Eraqus who despise the darkness like nothing else, and then at the way it influences characters like Terra, I just don't see how there wouldn't be any evil/peace-breakers without Xehanort.

Of course there could have been (and most likely were) local conflicts and world-specific issues, but those would have been all localized and not a threat on an universal scale nor would they have threatened every world in existence.

Like said, these would all be on a local level and characters such as Eraqus and possibly some world leaders (like King Triton for example) knowing some of the classified information about the make-up of the current universe and the background as to why it is that way I would think do have a certain justification for despising/being wary of Darkness since it led to near-ultimate destruction once already, why take chances that the job could be finished?
It's not like there was an active "light police" roaming around the worlds executing/detaining anyone who displays too much affinity to the Darkness. In such an environment, people like Xehanort would never have been allowed the free reign he ultimatively had. This is however something that could become a reality depending on how much damage Xehanort still manages to cause during KH III and how it ultimatively all ends.

It wasn't until Xehanort started his mumbo-jumbo though that there came another threat on an universal level about. I remember in the first part of BBS Eraqus explicitly states that he unlocked the Lanes Between to allow travel to other worlds and from what we have seen I think it can be safely assumed that it was the first time for all three of TAV to travel to other worlds.
For example when Aqua sets foot in Castle of Dreams (her first world), she gives an amazed impression when taking in the scenery, not unlike Ven does when he visits his first world. Terra only doesn't do that because his first arrival is just at a lakeside and he gets immediately attacked by Unversed.

I think that what was being said was the the worlds were at a state of peace with the Darkness, despite having their own conflicts, those conflicts were isolated and contained from world-to-world and the Heartless weren't destroying or invading them. That part is 100% Xehanort's fault. That doesn't mean the worlds themselves were free from strife or war or unhappiness, and at some point I'm sure someone else would have plunged the worlds into darkness, but this time it was at Xehanort's hand

Yep, that's the crux about it. "Evil" beings like Maleficent or Hades certainly existed all throughout, but they were all just a threat on their local world-level, there was no inter-worldly threat until Xehanort started messing things up.
 

Hirokey123

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You know this might be blasphemous but...I think DDD actually does it better than KH1 and before I'm stabbed with pitchforks hear me out. While it's true Disney gets more focus that's only because the actual main villain Ansem isn't on screen for most of the game. It's less that Disney got better focus and more like there was nothing to really focus on, and yet still so many of those Disney worlds were just kind of unnecessary/filler

-Deep Jungle could have been meaningful growth for SDG's friendship but they kind of ruin it at the end because just after they get out of the world they get into the same exact fight and Goofy gives them a whole "here we go again" moment, sort of making all that lesson of friendship rather irrelevant. We also get a 3 second glimpse of Kairi and a vague mention of a castle feeling familiar, the game repeats these much more obviously in other worlds namely Merlin's place in Traverse Town and land in Hollow Bastion. Heartless being drawn to the darkness in one's heart is also something shown and demonstrated multiple times. In fact the world so irrelevant in the grand scheme of themes that even though legal reasons made them have to never show or reference it ever again, it never feels like any plot as missing.

-Wonderland and Agrabah are important especially agrabah since that's where Riku commits his first bad act by kidnapping a princess, has probably the most grand and constantly referenced keyblade locking scene, and it's like the only time where a villain is actually properly working with Maleficent. It's kind of astounding how few villains actually seemed to care about Maleficent or their shared goals.

-Olympus is kind of iffy, in the grand scheme of things given how much this world reappears I'd say it's important now...but in the context of KH1 being the only KH1 game the only mandatory visit this world has is rather irrelevant. No one of the main cast really grows as a character, you'll never see Cloud again, nothing with Hades is properly resolved, and Hades himself tells Maleficent to get lost in the 30 seconds she is on screen. In fact Maleficent's appearance is so minor here there is an alternate cutscene if you don't do this world till you beat HB and the whole scene plays out without Maleficent and it feels like nothing is lost. It takes not one but 3 visits to this world before you really get something substantial from it story wise by beating the Hercules cup, and a 4th visit to take down Hades in the Hades cup. You really shouldn't have the actual important story moments and lessons in a world be contained in the umpteenth optional visit.

-100 Acre Woods never does anything relevant but I don't feel it has to, it's designed to be a break from Sora's stressful adventure and that in it of itself has story value. It's also the only world in which Sora gets to shine as Sora as KH1 kind of has an issue of Donald and Goofy speaking for Sora and doing most of the relevant talking. But here Sora is adventuring entirely alone inside this book and so that's a pretty big step and important to the overall story just in a different way.

-Halloween Town can be skipped so nothing is lost and the plot actually makes more sense if you never visit it. Because so much weirdness is going on in this world. The heartless are totally harmless and dancing and then suddenly go berserk? Oogie can't control the heartless even though up until now it's been implied/shown all the main villains were able to control the heartless. Oogie unravels then turns into a giant mansion powered by darkness orbs because...why? It's like it's one random unexplained thing after the next and this is a world you can actually just flat out skip and the game still moves forward.

-Atlantica is the other world you can flat out skip as well and the game will still let you move forward. Now because it was underwater I think the plot of this world was always a little doomed because it means none of the other villains not even Maleficent could appear because they can't breath underwater. So Ursula has to carry this world's plot all by herself but then we run into the issue of it really doesn't feel like she's doing anything relevant. It's another case of a villain trying to find the world's keyhole so they could control it....but then stealing the trident and acting out the end of the movie suddenly instead of keeping with the plan same thing that happens with Jafar. This time no one in the evil villain council will even acknowledge Ursula's defeat or falling into the same trap as Jafar so it feels even less relevant. Sora doesn't really learn any lessons in this world he just basically encounters Ariel, a person who is like how he used to be like, and helps her grow while SDG remain sort of stagnant. There is sort of that one off line when Triton tells us the keyblade has a history of destruction and ruin which in theory could be an important development....problem is like a lot of KH games later on as well this one of those interesting story bits that is brought up then immediately dropped and goes nowhere. It doesn't make SDG second guess the keyblade or what they know, Sora basically just ignores this piece of info and trucks on as if it was never said. We don't get ANY proper cash in on this until four games later with BBS where we finally start to see the story showing the destructive side of the keyblade and learn the ancient war that ruined the world was fought by keybladers. This piece of info from triton is thus kinda wasted and doesn't really contribute a whole lot....also Ansem report 9 tells us this same piece of info so.....

-Monstro and Neverland are probably the two most important disney worlds in KH1 with no explanation needed why. Meanwhile Hollow Bastion is unique in that while it's an original world Sora's short time with the Disney character Beast there was very important to the story and Sora's final spurt of growth you'll get to witness in that game.

Ultimately it kind of feels like KH1 had the same trap of other KH games were most of the relevant and important plot stuff happens in the KH original worlds, and like the game entirely switch gears to Ansem who comes out of nowhere at the last minute to steal the spotlight. It's just....in KH2 you have to visit every world twice in the main story whereas in KH1 you only visit each world once so you don't feel the filler as bad because you're only experiencing filler in 4 worlds not 8. There was also that thinly veiled attempt to make Disney feel relevant via the "princesses of heart" but it's no secret that the only non disney one, Kairi, was the one given the most screen time and importance and as soon as kairi was safe okay the need for the focus on the princesses just kind of happens to vanish. Like it sort of very blatantly feels like the princess of heart subplot was less to make the Disney worlds feel relevant...and more to give some extra build up to the big Kairi reveal and thus give her a meatier story than being in a coma all game.

The keyholes of sleep were kind of in the same boat as the princesses. DDD is probably the only game in which dealing with the keyholes is the main plot, not the side plot. Sora and Riku's entire quest hinges on finding these keyholes and since the nightmare dream eaters are what are keeping the worlds trapped in slumber it means helping the disney dream work through and come to its natural end is important if they are to find the keyhole. But...once you find the seven keyholes the plot just sort of keeps going and they are no longer important for pretty much all of TWTNW. However they do come back in the final stretch of the game since it's the power Riku got from those keyholes that lets him dive into Sora, dive even deeper into Sora to find all that Destiny Island stuff, and let Sora return to the sleeping worlds pre-credits so he can thank his dream eaters and do...whatever secret thing Sora did. So that's something and it's the kind of thing I feel they really should of done with the princesses of heart but at the end of it all the only princes who got focus after the fact was Kairi...would of been nice if like once the DtD was closed the power of the 7 princesses together were able to instantly restore stability and balance to the world by making all the lost worlds come back. Woulda made more sense than sealing the DTD that only just now appeared suddenly restores every single lost world...just because...in fact KH1 has a lot of things that happen "just because" granted since there were minimal rules at the time it works for that particular game and only became jarring as the series became more defined.
 
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