Ienzo's aging

[Ventus91]

unless they make a brand new kh game explaining the aging process's in KH lol I would buy it for giggles.

 

[sora364]

So here's my theory: Zexion has the power of illusions, correct? Well, what if, after being created, he didn't want to feel like, and appear as, a little kid (especially when compared to the other members) so his appearance is actually an illusion.He APPEARS to be older, but in fact, Zexion's true form body might actually be that of young Ienzo.

Your thoughts?

It's a plot hole that Nomura has failed to rectify, and will most likely deny to the bitter end. There are one to two things wrong. Namine clearly ages from COM to KH2. Many bring up the argument of "different character models"...but I call bull****. If that were the case, then Nomura would have purposely circumvented any model alterations that would age her the slightest. She's clearly much taller, and her facial features are more refined. Xigbar has gray hair. As for Zexion/Ienzo had a bigger growth spurt than Riku in one year, and that definitely isn't possible. Either Nobodies do age and Nomura (I don't care what his word is, the game's pre-established/canon facts>>>>>his word) or a gaping plot hole. If Nomura, despite what the already existing games show us, is true about Nobodies not aging...your theory is the only plausible solution to his plot hole. He could probably get away with Namine ( updated character model...>_>) or Xigbar's hair (mild deformations metioned in Ansem's secret report) but Zexion's appearance defies everything he's said.

For Nomura's sake as a credible writer, I pray you're right. I like your idea.

 

[SogeUsopp114]

ienzo's age, why his deceased parents were mentioned, why he wondered outside the castle and was attacked by unversed, why he was looking at xehanort and braig and the little stuff about him in the secret ansem reports most likely will have something to do with one of the future kh games thats coming out.

 

[HeartSeams]

It's a plot hole that Nomura has failed to rectify, and will most likely deny to the bitter end. There are one to two things wrong. Namine clearly ages from COM to KH2. Many bring up the argument of "different character models"...but I call bull****. If that were the case, then Nomura would have purposely circumvented any model alterations that would age her the slightest. She's clearly much taller, and her facial features are more refined. Xigbar has gray hair. As for Zexion/Ienzo had a bigger growth spurt than Riku in one year, and that definitely isn't possible. Either Nobodies do age and Nomura (I don't care what his word is, the game's pre-established/canon facts>>>>>his word) or a gaping plot hole. If Nomura, despite what the already existing games show us, is true about Nobodies not aging...your theory is the only plausible solution to his plot hole. He could probably get away with Namine ( updated character model...>_>) or Xigbar's hair (mild deformations metioned in Ansem's secret report) but Zexion's appearance defies everything he's said.

For Nomura's sake as a credible writer, I pray you're right. I like your idea.

As mentioned before, it was never said in the games that Ienzo -had- to become a Nobody only a year later.

 

[sora364]

As mentioned before, it was never said in the games that Ienzo -had- to become a Nobody only a year later.

Secret Ansem Report 3 would like to have a word with you.


Secret Ansem Report 3
Chaos affects not only this world, but many other worlds besides. In the "Ansem Reports" my apprentice Xehanort had written under my name, I found the records of his hideous experiments along with his hypothesis about the door that had appeared out of the darkness in my basement. All living things have hearts, and all hearts hold darkness deep within. Worlds are no exception. If a world is a being, the heart it holds must be colossal... ...and the darkness at its core must be monstrous indeed. Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm? No, not only Xehanort. It appears my other five apprentices, believing it was for the sake of research, stared deep into the darkness and were pulled into it. Even, Ienzo, Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus... They have ceased to be human. I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness. What is Xehanort hoping to gain with my pilfered existence? Will my people cease to smile? If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth walk with darkness as a friend. Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated. Darkness in the midst of nothing. "Darkness in Zero." Thus, I shall be known as DiZ. Discarding the stolen name "Ansem"... And going in search of revenge.

 

[HeartSeams]

Secret Ansem Report 3 would like to have a word with you.


Secret Ansem Report 3
Chaos affects not only this world, but many other worlds besides. In the "Ansem Reports" my apprentice Xehanort had written under my name, I found the records of his hideous experiments along with his hypothesis about the door that had appeared out of the darkness in my basement. All living things have hearts, and all hearts hold darkness deep within. Worlds are no exception. If a world is a being, the heart it holds must be colossal... ...and the darkness at its core must be monstrous indeed. Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm? No, not only Xehanort. It appears my other five apprentices, believing it was for the sake of research, stared deep into the darkness and were pulled into it. Even, Ienzo, Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus... They have ceased to be human. I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness. What is Xehanort hoping to gain with my pilfered existence? Will my people cease to smile? If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth walk with darkness as a friend. Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated. Darkness in the midst of nothing. "Darkness in Zero." Thus, I shall be known as DiZ. Discarding the stolen name "Ansem"... And going in search of revenge.

So yes, in order for it to be cohesive with the Report, he would have to. As I said, it is a gaping plot hole that only a theory such as TheBucket's can answer.

And where does it say that they all did it at the same time? It doesn't. All it does say is that, at the time of Ansem writing that report, he believed all of them had by that point in time.

 

[Orion]

Namine clearly ages from COM to KH2.

Normal Nobodies don't age or physically change. Examples include Roxas, while Naminé isn't even a Nobody.

For Nomura's sake as a credible writer, I pray you're right. I like your idea.

Nah, Nomura's never had a tonne of credibility when it comes to actually developing his own games.

 

[sora364]

Fair enough. He does not. However:

If that was not definitive for for you: YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Walkthrough part 86 - World Terminus

@5:52, you can see the five pods the apprentices were presumably experimented inside of surrounding the darkness of the heart, all preceding the fall of Radiant Garden. Meaning that Ienzo was still a child.

As you pointed out, Ansem the Wise did not implicitly say this, but the excerpt itself insinuates this. It gives us no reason to suspect otherwise. I'm willing to accept the fact there is a *faint* probability he did not become a nobody until much later, but the possibility of him becoming a Nobody in his younger self is more plausible. Taking into account Xehanort prompted the entire research, and then vanished, though I can't say for sure what became of the others, aside from they become Nobodies. Still, Radiant Garden's destruction followed shortly after. This means that Ienzo was not only homeless...but friendless? He fended for himself all those years, and still experimented with the darkness in his heart, full well knowing the consequences as he saw with is fellow apprentices? Sorry...but I'm not sure I buy into that theory just yet. Possible, just improbable to me.

Normal Nobodies don't age or physically change. Examples include Roxas, while Naminé isn't even a Nobody.

I keep forgetting that neither Roxas or Namine should be considered a Nobody. XD I recant, you're absolutely right.

 

[HeartSeams]

Fair enough. He does not. However:

If that was not definitive for for you: YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Walkthrough part 86 - World Terminus

@5:52, you can see the five pods the apprentices were presumably experimented inside of surrounding the darkness of the heart, all preceding the fall of Radiant Garden. Meaning that Ienzo was still a child.

As you pointed out, Ansem the Wise did not implicitly say this, but the excerpt itself insinuates this. It gives us no reason to suspect otherwise. I'm willing to accept the fact there is a *faint* probability he did not become a nobody until much later, but the possibility of him becoming a Nobody in his younger self is more plausible. Taking into account Xehanort prompted the entire research, and then vanished, though I can't say for sure what became of the others, aside from they become Nobodies. Still, Radiant Garden's destruction followed shortly after. This means that Ienzo was not only homeless...but friendless? He fended for himself all those years, and still experimented with the darkness in his heart, full well knowing the consequences as he saw with is fellow apprentices? Sorry...but I'm not sure I buy into that theory just yet. Possible, just improbable to me.



I keep forgetting that neither Roxas or Namine should be considered a Nobody. XD I recant, you're absolutely right.

There's plenty evidence to suggest that Xemnas and Co. stayed in RG for a number of years. Ienzo simply could have been hesitant to go through with it for a while until the very end. It really IS open to interpretation as Xemnas is the only one who is actually pinpointed timewise.

 

[sora364]

There's plenty evidence to suggest that Xemnas and Co. stayed in RG for a number of years. Ienzo simply could have been hesitant to go through with it for a while until the very end. It really IS open to interpretation as Xemnas is the only one who is actually pinpointed timewise.

I'm not doubting you, because I literally had no idea there was evidence towards your theory. But could you please link me to a source or explain a bit more in-depth? I obviously missed something. I always suspected they abandoned Radiant Garden shortly after, as Maleficent soon rose to power. And I had always doubted they would allow themselves to be subjugated by the likes of her. I mean...each of them could easily defeat her. If it weren't for that small issue, I wouldn't be confused on it.

 

[HeartSeams]

I'm not doubting you, because I literally had no idea there was evidence towards your theory. But could you please link me to a source or explain a bit more in-depth? I obviously missed something. I always suspected they abandoned Radiant Garden shortly after, as Maleficent soon rose to power. And I had always doubted they would allow themselves to be subjugated by the likes of her. I mean...each of them could easily defeat her. If it weren't for that small issue, I wouldn't be confused on it.

Well, i posted this earlier in the thread, but, it's the same answer so:

Leon associated the Heartless Invasion with Maleficent taking over, yes?
That happened Nine Years Ago. It was said that, during the invasion, Ansem disappeared, so they assumed he was done in by whatever started the invasion. Now, knowing that Maleficent NOW resides in HB, and commands the Heartless, Leon put two and two together, so to speak, and blamed her.

Then, at the end of the game when it is revealed that "Ansem" was really the one behind it, as he was behind the Heartless, Leon reassessed it. He says that, originally, he thought that Ansem had died protecting his people, but, in reality Ansem was the one "who brought them there" (The Heartless). Therefore, if he now realizes that "Ansem" was behind the Heartless Invasion, then that means that Maleficent -didn't- take over then. Basically, by the end of the game, everyone realizes that the Heartless was really "Ansem"'s doing, and not Maleficent.

Now combine that knowledge with the following facts:
-Xemnas was the one who banished Ansem.
-Xemnas made the Chamber of Repose after banishing Ansem and was said to visit there frequently
-Xemnas reinstated the MCP in Space Paranoids.

It becomes clear that Maleficent didn't take over nine years ago.

Plot Hole adverted. La-di-da.

 

[Allister Rose]

that's not a big plot hole. jsut something that isn't properly explained but can.

 

[sora364]

Ironically, I thought to post something akin the the lines of "But then again, Ansem/Xehanort was the cause of the heartless and controlled them from the start, so maybe he *gave* RG to Maleficent or flat out didn't give a ****" haha.

Thanks for reminding me about the entire "Leon/Ansem" thing. It brought back some memories of KH1 I have conveniently seem to have forgotton. Even with that, there is still something that's perplexing me. All of the characters, including Leon, were under the suspicion that Ansem was dead initially. Therefore, he could not have been publically prancing about Radiant Gardan/Hollow Bastion commanding Heartless.

Would he have been hiding somewhere? The secret underground laboratory, perhaps?

 

[Allister Rose]

i doubt they ever returned at all. the way the story was, XH was merely commanding melificent than her willingly.

there is a hole in heartseams judgement. heartseams assumes that leon assumes that melificent didn't take over 9 years before kh1, only that leon assumed it because sheis recently residing there. but how can he know if he was kicked out of his home nine years ago

 

[sora364]

i doubt they ever returned at all. the way the story was, XH was merely commanding melificent than her willingly.

there is a hole in heartseams judgement. heartseams assumes that leon assumes that melificent didn't take over 9 years before kh1, only that leon assumed it because sheis recently residing there. but how can he know if he was kicked out of his home nine years ago

You know...I'm going to stop thinking about this now and just go along with my old theory: Nomura's plot hole. By the way Allister, "something that isn't properly explained" is what I deem as a plot hole. Not exactly "totally unexplained", but too nebulous to make a concrete stance on. It wouldn't be this way if Nomura just...never commented on Nobodies not aging. Or better yet, make Ienzo near identical to Zexion, age and all, in Birth By Sleep.

 

[Allister Rose]

You know...I'm going to stop thinking about this now and just go along with my old theory: Nomura's plot hole. By the way Allister, "something that isn't properly explained" is what I deem as a plot hole. Not exactly "totally unexplained", but too nebulous to make a concrete stance on. It wouldn't be this way if Nomura just...never commented on Nobodies not aging. Or better yet, make Ienzo near identical to Zexion, age and all, in Birth By Sleep.

i think a plot hole is something that doens't make sense at all and can't be explained. Zexion's age wasn't much.


i remember an interview when the interviewwer asked about xigbar's age, andnomura said it was merely an illusion

 

[HeartSeams]

i doubt they ever returned at all.

Story confirms that they did.

there is a hole in heartseams judgement. heartseams assumes that leon assumes that melificent didn't take over 9 years before kh1, only that leon assumed it because sheis recently residing there. but how can he know if he was kicked out of his home nine years ago

She doesn't exactly keep it a secret that she lives there now. Not that hard to connect the dots.

 

[Allister Rose]

Story confirms that they did.
She doesn't exactly keep it a secret that she lives there now. Not that hard to connect the dots.

i think you could've said soemthing more convincing than "story" but i'll look it over anyways.

as for her "not keeping it a secret" doesn't exactly means that she's telling the home kh universe that she resides there "recently". and i remember someone other than leon saying melificent took over 9 years ago

 

[HeartSeams]

i think you could've said soemthing more convincing than "story" but i'll look it over anyways.

If the canon itself proves it why should I waste time trying to "convince" you.

as for her "not keeping it a secret" doesn't exactly means that she's telling the home kh universe that she resides there "recently". and i remember someone other than leon saying melificent took over 9 years ago

Sounds to me like you're just nitpicking.

 

[Allister Rose]

Sounds to me like you're just nitpicking.

not really, this was mainly based on your assumption