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org... bad guys?



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gonald doofy

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um k well ive been wondering for a while what exactly was so horrible about what org xiii were doing. all they were doing was killing heartless (which sora does already) to complete kh so they can become whole. like cmon they just wanna be whole lol i wud too i was them. the worst they do is use sora / fight sora but hey what can u say he was being a b!tch and ruining their plans. and then sora just goes and destroys them all without a second thot. like, what a jerk. they just wanted to be complete. i dont get it.

ps. this has nothing to do with it but i didnt wanna make another thread. u think the 2 in 358/2 days is representing like 2 dif characters you play thru the game as like riku in CoM? disregarding the multiplayer
 
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Ren

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They were purposely using Sora and egging him on. They were also messing with the worlds--they tried to turn Beast into a heartless, for one. If I was Sora I'd be pretty pissed at him, too :/
Not to mention the whole fiasco at CO, despite the fact that he can't remember it.
They also kidnapped Kairi and planned to use her.

So while all they wanted to get regain their hearts, they used pretty unfavorable methods to do so.
 
gelandporn

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I could get into a great philosophical thesis over why the Organization was not evil but I'll Keep It Simple Stupid.

While what they were doing is considered evil from our perspective, we cannot say that their actions were morally wrong from a neutral perspective, even with the relativity of evil aside. They did not have hearts and therefore did not have emotions. Without emotions, they lose ethical hindrance. For instance, without the emotion of love of a family member or fear of killing, I would probably not hesitate and feel no remorse over killing my brother for getting into a fight with him. While that is wrong by societies standards, my action was not evil. It was empathetic. It was amoral, not immoral. The same could be said about the Organization, or even, for example, real life psychos who lack any sort of conscience. It's different than killing and comprehending the consequences.

Unfortunately, even though they were not evil, they were still the antagonists and needed to be stopped. It came down to a fight for survival, not a debate of morals. Sad.
 
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Spectrum

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Didn't anyone listen to Xemnas ramble on and on? No...only me, come on he practically had time to tell you the answer to every question in the universe. I think he even slipped in the meaning of life somewhere in that monstrosity you call a speech. His whole plan was to gather hearts to form Kingdom Hearts. Now once he had that, he was going to use it to create a new world...or at the very least change the existing one. By making the world a better place for nobodies, he was going to displace everyone else.
 
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MegamanX1331

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Grace Assassin said:
I could get into a great philosophical thesis over why the Organization was not evil but I'll Keep It Simple Stupid.

While what they were doing is considered evil from our perspective, we cannot say that their actions were morally wrong from a neutral perspective, even with the relativity of evil aside. They did not have hearts and therefore did not have emotions. Without emotions, they lose ethical hindrance. For instance, without the emotion of love of a family member or fear of killing, I would probably not hesitate and feel no remorse over killing my brother for getting into a fight with him. While that is wrong by societies standards, my action was not evil. It was empathetic. It was amoral, not immoral. The same could be said about the Organization, or even, for example, real life psychos who lack any sort of conscience. It's different than killing and comprehending the consequences.

Unfortunately, even though they were not evil, they were still the antagonists and needed to be stopped. It came down to a fight for survival, not a debate of morals. Sad.
Click to expand...

HA HA HA!! That has GOT to be the STUPIDEST thing I have read on these boards in a while. :) And that is SAYING SOMETHING. You gotta love kids!
 
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tazmanianchocobo

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gonald doofy said:
um k well ive been wondering for a while what exactly was so horrible about what org xiii were doing. all they were doing was killing heartless (which sora does already) to complete kh so they can become whole. like cmon they just wanna be whole lol i wud too i was them. the worst they do is use sora / fight sora but hey what can u say he was being a b!tch and ruining their plans. and then sora just goes and destroys them all without a second thot. like, what a jerk. they just wanted to be complete. i dont get it.

ps. this has nothing to do with it but i didnt wanna make another thread. u think the 2 in 358/2 days is representing like 2 dif characters you play thru the game as like riku in CoM? disregarding the multiplayer
Click to expand...

What they were wanting wasn't really evil. However there methods were. They wanting to throw the worlds out of balance and let heartless consume more hearts so that when they are destroyed they could gather the remaining hearts and add them to their Kingdom Hearts. They even wanted to make beings with strong hearts to become heartless so that when their heart is added to their Kingdom Hearts it would bring them closer to their eventual goal. They had no hearts so they didn't care how they achieved their goal.
 
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Spectrum

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Actually, the organization members are morally wrong for what they did. It's not emotions that keep you from doing wrong, it's your understanding of what's going on around you. Why is it wrong to steal? Because you didn't earn what you took and you took it from someone who earned it. All the organization members were aware of what was happening, just because they weren't sad about the consequences doesn't mean they didn't understand them.
 
khluva010

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Grace Assassin said:
I could get into a great philosophical thesis over why the Organization was not evil but I'll Keep It Simple Stupid.

While what they were doing is considered evil from our perspective, we cannot say that their actions were morally wrong from a neutral perspective, even with the relativity of evil aside. They did not have hearts and therefore did not have emotions. Without emotions, they lose ethical hindrance. For instance, without the emotion of love of a family member or fear of killing, I would probably not hesitate and feel no remorse over killing my brother for getting into a fight with him. While that is wrong by societies standards, my action was not evil. It was empathetic. It was amoral, not immoral. The same could be said about the Organization, or even, for example, real life psychos who lack any sort of conscience. It's different than killing and comprehending the consequences.

Unfortunately, even though they were not evil, they were still the antagonists and needed to be stopped. It came down to a fight for survival, not a debate of morals. Sad.
Click to expand...

As interesting of a thesis this is, it still doesn't change the fact. Like Spectrum said, Xemnas was going to use the hearts to create a world for what he thinks is the right one which is a Nobody world. I guess he thought it would be a good way to make Nobodies have emotions which in turn would give them emotions.

While you may not think they were evil considering the fact that they do not know there right from wrong but the simple fact is what they were planning was evil. And since they didn't realize it, but things like this needs to be stopped because they will never realize the evil act they could of caused in the KH world (or in the world in general).

I can't belive were taking KH so seriously right now.... lol

oh and for your p.s. thread starter person, it's a good theory and I for one have no clue what the title is suppose to mean. It's probably something so simple that is going over all or heads right now because we're over thinking a game that isn't all that complicated! It's a good game, just not as deep as most of us would like it to be.... lol
 
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Cissy

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MegamanX1331 said:
HA HA HA!! That has GOT to be the STUPIDEST thing I have read on these boards in a while. :) And that is SAYING SOMETHING. You gotta love kids!
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

Anyway, in my personal opinion, they weren't evil; just in the way.

But Xemnas wanted an empire, so I'm not so sure about him.
 
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Smile

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khluva010 said:
I can't belive were taking KH so seriously right now.... lol
Click to expand...

o_O Ok.


Well, it really is debatable whether they were evil or not, but as a whole I can't say they were, seeing how they're just that - an Organization.
Demyx for instance didn't come out with that much of a fighting spirit unless it was to try and bring Roxas back, and the second time around Sora and Donald were gong ho on getting him out of the way so they could save HB; throw in him apparently being insulted by Roxas's "betrayal" and you got him willing to fight.
We've never seen him try to turn anyone into a Heartless and so far weren't really told what he was doing in the Coliseum save for trying to get Roxas back, seeing the instructions Xemnas gave him.

Then we have Xaldin, that while he indeed wanted to simply regain his Heart, was an utter bastard that was out to actively hurt people and put Beast and Belle through hell.

Other good guy examples - Lexeaous, who seemed rather honorable and his attempt at getting Riku was to stop a rebellion inside the Organization, one which would have possibly led to a much worse conclusion.
Well, Roxas, we can't ignore him. Definately a bonus to the Organization's moral level.

Other evil guys examples - Larxene :\ regardless of anything. She was just a bitch.
Luxord didn't seem to care much about anything in Port Royal.

When it comes down to it, though, whether they were evil or not seems to take second to each and every single one of them being selfish.
Marluxia did pretty nasty things to Namine and Sora, but who knows if he wouldn't have truly worked out the Organization's ideal and was actually rebelling because he thought Xemnas was lying to them all.
Saix seemed good at using the situation in his advantage, but was also fair enough not to harm people needlessly - he came out as pretty evil, but a calculated one, so I have to credit him for that.

Evil or not, the end result is that they hurt people, and from the protagonist's pov, that made them evil.
 
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Darkslayers

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You sure? There is some reasons why the Org. 13 is bad.
1. They Kidnapped Kairi and tried to bring Sora after her to save her.
2. Beast was almost turn into a Heartless and a mean beast.
3. Made Namine erase Sora's Memories after Namine didnt even want too.
 
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