Terra's Heartless?

[Gram]

i suppose there isnt really a correct answer until nomura actually says what it is but i always saw it as a suit of armor being animated by terras soul

but this thread isnt about the lingering will. what do you guys think about the whole guardian being terras heartless theory?

True there is no correct answer but you can guarantee that it's not being animated by terra's soul. If Terra had lost his soul his body would've died, simple as that.

I think it's terras darkness manifested into a weapon. It has feelings, and I suppose a heart based off of that split second of "pain" it looked it was feeling.

Personally I like the theory that it could be Terra's keyblade enacting on his will to stop Xehanort and protect Ven and Terra. It'd be in line with terra's "mind resisting" since ones will is an aspect of the mind and it'd be him resisting MX through his keyblade.

 

[Korai]

you can guarantee that it's not being animated by terra's soul. If Terra had lost his soul his body would've died, simple as that.

terras body could be made live by xehanorts soul. its not like xehanorts body is using it. also he could have planned this so that his body and soul wouldnt merge in "limbo" and form a nobody with an 80+ year old body which would then just continue aging. by separating his soul from his body, xehanorts body stopped aging for 11 years until kh3d. this would also explain how xehanort so easily controlled terras body

 

[ajmrowland]

Xehanort put his heart in terra; not his soul. The heart and soul can separated.

 

[Gram]

terras body could be made live by xehanorts soul. its not like xehanorts body is using it. also he could have planned this so that his body and soul wouldnt merge in "limbo" and form a nobody with an 80+ year old body which would then just continue aging. by separating his soul from his body, xehanorts body stopped aging for 11 years until kh3d. this would also explain how xehanort so easily controlled terras body

Impossible, Mx appeared in his old wrinkly body at the end of DDD. So if he had seperated his soul from his body his old body would be dead and gone.
As stated in the kh2 reports the bodies loss of soul causes death, it is just that simple. A body without a soul is a dead body, it's the bodies battery nothing more and nothing less.

Xehanort put his heart in terra; not his soul. The heart and soul can separated.

Exactly plus the soul isn't even a vital part or even connected to the heart. The soul is a battery for the hearts vessel, the body. The body and soul are certainly connected and when the soul fades the body dies with it but the heart always persists.

 

[Korai]

Xehanort put his heart in terra; not his soul. The heart and soul can separated.

you dont know that, no one does. they can be separated, yes. but that doesnt mean they cant leave the body together. i think maybe xnort put both his heart and soul in terra, forcing terras soul out of his body which then went into the first vessel it could find: terras armor. if xnorts soul had stayed with his body, wouldnt a nobody have been formed? theres no denying that xnort has a strong heart, so he would have had a nobody that looked identical or nearly identical to old man xnort, and the destruction of ansem and xemnas alone wouldnt have been enough to ressurect xnort in kh3d.

 

[Gram]

you dont know that, no one does. they can be separated, yes. but that doesnt mean they cant leave the body together. i think maybe xnort put both his heart and soul in terra, forcing terras soul out of his body which then went into the first vessel it could find: terras armor. if xnorts soul had stayed with his body, wouldnt a nobody have been formed? theres no denying that xnort has a strong heart, so he would have had a nobody that looked identicul or nearly identical to old man xnort, and the destruction of ansem and xemnas alone wouldnt have been enough to ressurect xnort in kh3d.

That's the thing we DO KNOW that, it's even stated in BBS reports when MX's letters highlight the keyblade master's ability to transfer their hearts.
And its in kh2's reports that the bodies loss of soul equals death, there is no way around this.

 

[Korai]

That's the thing we DO KNOW that, it's even stated in BBS reports when MX's letters highlight the keyblade master's ability to transfer their hearts.
And its in kh2's reports that the bodies loss of soul equals death, there is no way around this.

i meant we dont know that MX didnt also transfer his soul.
lets not forget that the true kingdom hearts was present when this happened. MX could have drawn from its power to transefer his soul after he transferred his heart. when a soul is gone, the body dies, but... MX had the opportunity to transfer his heart into terra the moment he landed on top of the plateau thing. he didnt have to wait for vanitas to attack aqua or for the X-blade to be forged. but he waited for terra to own him first. when the body is destroyed in combat, it doesnt die, it goes into limbo. remember what MX said after terra beat him: "Only now... have i truly won." I think that after terra beat MX, his body was beginning to be terminated and go into limbo. maybe he timed it so that his body went into limbo right as his soul left. hes a crafty old man. he DID basically design 11+ years of the kingdom hearts series, after all lol

 

[Gram]

i meant we dont know that MX didnt also transfer his soul.
lets not forget that the true kingdom hearts was present when this happened. MX could have drawn from its power to transefer his soul after he transferred his heart. when a soul is gone, the body dies, but... MX had the opportunity to transfer his heart into terra the moment he landed on top of the plateau thing. he didnt have to wait for vanitas to attack aqua or for the X-blade to be forged. but he waited for terra to own him first. when the body is destroyed in combat, it doesnt die, it goes into limbo. remember what MX said after terra beat him: "Only now... have i truly won." I think that after terra beat MX, his body was beginning to be terminated and go into limbo. maybe he timed it so that his body went into limbo right as his soul left. hes a crafty old man. he DID basically design 11+ years of the kingdom hearts series, after all lol

We dont know what kh that was because the xblade wasn't forged in the proper manner.
And if MX could draw from Kh that easily form just being near it he wouldn't need to go through the trouble of getting the xblade to open it.
Mx didn't wait because he had to wait he waited until Vanitas had successfully merged with Ventus, pretty obvious given that the bright flash from that merger happens when MX states that line you quoted.
That's where your wrong again when the body is destroyed it is destroyed, it is only when the body loses it's heart that it either goes into limbo or forms a nobody and it's only in the case of a nobody that the body+soul goes into limbo upon defeat.

 

[billyzanesucks]

As I mentioned earlier, Xehanort referred to the resistance of Terra's mind when the LS formed. As far as I know, there is little or no evidence to suggest that the soul contains a person's mind or selfhood. Sora and Xehanort retained the ability to think after becoming Heartless, and there's no evidence to suggest that their bodies or souls had any role in that. However, it has been confirmed that the strength of a person's heart decides whether they leave behind a mindless shell, a common Nobody, or a fully humanoid Nobody capable of speech.

Yen Sid: "At times, if someone with a strong heart and will - be they evil or good - becomes a Heartless, the empty shell they leave behind begins to act with a will of its own."

Notice the use of the word "will" as well. It seems to suggest that a Nobody loses both the heart and will of its former self, yet develops its own will [and heart].

In addition to all of that, we know that Nobodies retain memories of their previous lives - another component of the heart. Now, maybe it's just me, but it seems a little odd that the mind would be synonymous with or part of the soul - which has basically been said to act as an energy source for the body - and not a part of the heart, which contains a person's memories and emotions. Why not place the mind or will under the same category as the other parts of the psyche?

 

[Korai]

As I mentioned earlier, Xehanort referred to the resistance of Terra's mind when the LS formed. As far as I know, there is little or no evidence to suggest that the soul contains a person's mind or selfhood. Sora and Xehanort retained the ability to think after becoming Heartless, and there's no evidence to suggest that their bodies or souls had any role in that. However, it has been confirmed that the strength of a person's heart decides whether they leave behind a mindless shell, a common Nobody, or a fully humanoid Nobody capable of speech.

Yen Sid: "At times, if someone with a strong heart and will - be they evil or good - becomes a Heartless, the empty shell they leave behind begins to act with a will of its own."

Notice the use of the word "will" as well. It seems to suggest that a Nobody loses both the heart and will of its former self, yet develops its own will [and heart].

In addition to all of that, we know that Nobodies retain memories of their previous lives - another component of the heart. Now, maybe it's just me, but it seems a little odd that the mind would be synonymous with or part of the soul - which has basically been said to act as an energy source for the body - and not a part of the heart, which contains a person's memories and emotions. Why not place the mind or will under the same category as the other parts of the psyche?

y do you guyz keep hating on my theories? ;_; lol jk.
i could go on about this, but its starting to get off-topic.

 

[billyzanesucks]

y do you guyz keep hating on my theories? ;_; lol jk.
i could go on about this, but its starting to get off-topic.

Well, if you want your theory built, you'll need a strong foundation.

 

[Korai]

Well, if you want your theory built, you'll need a strong foundation.

-___- sparks fly lol
i do have a strong foundation, it just requires you to look at the whole soul/body/heart thing a bit more flexibly than you are

 

[billyzanesucks]

-___- sparks fly lol
i do have a strong foundation, it just requires you to look at the whole soul/body/heart thing a bit more flexibly than you are

Foundations are supposed to be strong and unmoving, not "flexible". If part of your theory is based on a concept that isn't almost universally accepted, that you haven't explained well enough for others to accept it, then you should continue arguing, reconstruct your theory, or move on.

 

[Korai]

Foundations are supposed to be strong and unmoving, not "flexible".

i didnt say that the foundation is flexible. i said you have to think of the different components of a person as being more flexible and not set in stone, as in, maybe the mind isnt attatched to any part, but can still travel from host to host either on its own or with another part. maybe the mind can split into two like a cell undergoing mitosis and go to two different places. maybe the memories in the heart can be copied and etched into the soul or just plain transferred etc.

 

[billyzanesucks]

thats why its a theory and not a fact

What, do you want me to seriously consider a theory that doesn't match up with the in-universe logic? If a theory is not plausible, it is a myth.


EDIT: Really? REALLY!?

 

[Korai]

What, do you want me to seriously consider a theory that doesn't match up with the in-universe logic? If a theory is not plausible, it is a myth.


EDIT: Really? REALLY!?

ive edited that post, please calm down and reread it. these are just ideas about how things might work in a fictional universe, no need to get so upset. im not telling you to consider anything, im just sharing my opinions, and i would appreciate it if you didnt refer to them as "myths"

 

[billyzanesucks]

i didnt say that the foundation is flexible. i said you have to think of the different components of a person as being more flexible and not set in stone, as in, maybe the mind isnt attatched to any part, but can still travel from host to host either on its own or with another part. maybe the mind can split into two like a cell undergoing mitosis and go to two different places. maybe the memories in the heart can be copied and etched into the soul or just plain transferred etc.

You're the one who was so concrete about the separation of the three primary components in the first place:

three elements. that means that if terras body and heart are seperate from the lingering armor whatchamacallit, there is only one element left over, the soul. it is simply referred to with different names like will and spirit

So really, what you're saying now is basically what I've been arguing the whole time. The main difference is that you're depending on Terra transferring not only his mind, but his soul, to the LS. We have not heard anything of the LS containing a soul, nor of Xehanort transferring his soul into Terra alongside his heart. We have no good reason to suspect he would have even wanted to carry his soul over, since the soul is only an energy source for the body, as far as we know.

While I can now acknowledge the possibility of your theory, I still can't give it much credence, because it provides little reason to doubt the default hypothesis.

 

[Korai]

We have no good reason to suspect he would have even wanted to carry his soul over, since the soul is only an energy source for the body, as far as we know.

it would have prevented the creation of a nobody and kept his body from aging for 11 years for if he needed it by the time of kh3d

 

[billyzanesucks]

it would have prevented the creation of a nobody

Why wouldn't he want to create a Nobody? Xehanort's all about backup plans.

and kept his body from aging for 11 years for if he needed it by the time of kh3d

Do you mean...his original body? MX's body? Removing his soul from his original body would do anything but preserve it. A body can't live without a soul.

 

[Korai]

Why wouldn't he want to create a Nobody? Xehanort's all about backup plans.

Do you mean...his original body? MX's body? Removing his soul from his original body would do anything but preserve it. A body can't live without a soul.

then riddle me this: where was this nobody all this time and why does MX look not a day older in kh3d than he did in bbs?