Lit ► The Enderverse - Ender's Game Series Discussion

[iLeen]

wat
Speaker for the Dead is a masterpiece and my personal favorite. It's a completely different kind of book than Game, but it is still great.

The whole Ender Quintet is good, though Xenocide and Children of the Mind are the weaker books. They aren't bad though. I would at least recommend reading those too. The Shadow Quintet on the other hand.... yeah, Ender's Shadow is pretty much the only good one. Still, I found all of them somewhat enjoyable when I first read them.

I shall keep that in mind. I think I'll read all those books in the library, and those I enjoy the most, I shall buy a copy for future rereads. Thanks for the recommendations! It's gonna be a loooong summer.

 

[Shadow Fenix]

Just finished Ender's Game this morning. Freaking awesome. Just bought Ender's Shadow and Speaker for the Dead. My wallet will cry in agony after I read them all eventually.

Also the movie looks sick and stuff, pretty pumped for November

 

[Zettaflare]

Ender's Game - "Mazer Rackham's Run" Clip - YouTube

 

[Luap]

movie's out
saw it
probably the best gavin hood movie yet
i'll give it like a 5/10

to compare it to other book adaptions, it's better than eragon and worse than hunger games

people who haven't read the books will be confused. fans who were hoping for the side characters to be good, especially bean since this was said to be an adaption of ender's shadow too, will be really disappointing.

they shoulda cut out the last half hour with the command school stuff and used it to build up the side characters and throw in the peter and valentine stuff and then had a sequel that was all about command school and ender's descent into almost insanity and actually have had the final chapter of the book not be a rushed confusing thing that cuts valentine from the picture for some reason

 

[Reagan Rayden]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I kinda of expect characters like Bean to be super under-developed in the movie. There's just too much stuff going on in the book to do it justice in two hours of film.

So, was the Giant's Game in the movie?

 

[Luap]

So, was the Giant's Game in the movie?

it was and was actually pretty cool, in terms of visuals
but most of the significance of the fantasy game was lost so yeah that sucked

 

[drumstickwielder]

So I just saw Ender's Game, and here are my thoughts on it.

To start off, the movie really feels like it's meant for people that read the book. As is always the case, the novel is by far superior to the movie, but while I normally don't like book adaptations all that much, I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. (I placed spoiler tags for anyone that reads this that has not read the book or seen the movie. Therefore, if you HAVE NOT read the book, DO NOT read the spoilers.)

I read the book about six years ago, so I have to admit that I probably liked the movie more because I don't remember all the little details(I forgot about a lot of the side characters before I saw this again). Bitch about what they left out all you want, but I really thought this movie did the book justice in terms of condensing an entire novel into a little less than two hours. I was completely skeptical about this movie going into it, because I really thought that Ender would have known he was going to kill an entire species based on the trailers, and that would have destroyed any chance this movie had of being good. As much as other book-to-movie adaptations change whatever the hell they want, this movie managed to keep the core story intact, and to me as long as the main plot stays the same, the movie does right by me.

Yeah, they cut out plot points from the book, and yeah, some parts are really rushed, but you really can't expect the movie to carry over everything from the novel. When I originally read Ender's Game(and I really, really liked it), I told myself there was no way they would ever, EVER make a movie out of it, so I was incredibly skeptical about the movie. I'm glad to say that the movie totally reversed my opinion. They did an excellent job maintaining Ender's character, even without the finer points of his psychology, and the visuals are absolutely amazing. I highly recommend this movie to anyone who read the book, just keep an open mind that not everything you love and cherish from the novel makes it to the big screen. If you don't like it, then just reread the book again. Also, if I had to rate the movie, I'd say 8/10.

Side note for those who've read the book:Also, if you know what's at stake during the final simulation scene, it's freakin' awesome. The humans dying following orders on top of the incredible amount of tension they build on top of the genocide is devastating to watch

 

[iLeen]

So I just saw Ender's Game, and here are my thoughts on it.

To start off, the movie really feels like it's meant for people that read the book. As is always the case, the novel is by far superior to the movie, but while I normally don't like book adaptations all that much, I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. (I placed spoiler tags for anyone that reads this that has not read the book or seen the movie. Therefore, if you HAVE NOT read the book, DO NOT read the spoilers.)

I read the book about six years ago, so I have to admit that I probably liked the movie more because I don't remember all the little details(I forgot about a lot of the side characters before I saw this again). Bitch about what they left out all you want, but I really thought this movie did the book justice in terms of condensing an entire novel into a little less than two hours. I was completely skeptical about this movie going into it, because I really thought that Ender would have known he was going to kill an entire species based on the trailers, and that would have destroyed any chance this movie had of being good. As much as other book-to-movie adaptations change whatever the hell they want, this movie managed to keep the core story intact, and to me as long as the main plot stays the same, the movie does right by me.

Yeah, they cut out plot points from the book, and yeah, some parts are really rushed, but you really can't expect the movie to carry over everything from the novel. When I originally read Ender's Game(and I really, really liked it), I told myself there was no way they would ever, EVER make a movie out of it, so I was incredibly skeptical about the movie. I'm glad to say that the movie totally reversed my opinion. They did an excellent job maintaining Ender's character, even without the finer points of his psychology, and the visuals are absolutely amazing. I highly recommend this movie to anyone who read the book, just keep an open mind that not everything you love and cherish from the novel makes it to the big screen. If you don't like it, then just reread the book again. Also, if I had to rate the movie, I'd say 8/10.

Side note for those who've read the book:Also, if you know what's at stake during the final simulation scene, it's freakin' awesome. The humans dying following orders on top of the incredible amount of tension they build on top of the genocide is devastating to watch

I agree with everything. Bolded parts are what I agree with that I would like to emphasize even more.

As much as I would have loved to see Peter and Valentine's side story of [strike]secretly conquering the world[/strike], I think the film drew the line pretty well from what it should cut out from the novel.

Oh YES. The climax of the "simulation" was better than expected. At first, I thought they were going to end it with the first shot from Little Doctor (I totally forgot what happened in the book, even though this was a big part of it), so I was disappointed for a sec until Ender said 'it's not over', and sure enough, it wasn't. It got even better.

What I could've done without was the slightest hint of budding romance between Ender and Petra. They're too young for love! (half serious/half not)

 

[drumstickwielder]

I agree with everything. Bolded parts are what I agree with that I would like to emphasize even more.

As much as I would have loved to see Peter and Valentine's side story of [strike]secretly conquering the world[/strike], I think the film drew the line pretty well from what it should cut out from the novel.

Oh YES. The climax of the "simulation" was better than expected. At first, I thought they were going to end it with the first shot from Little Doctor (I totally forgot what happened in the book, even though this was a big part of it), so I was disappointed for a sec until Ender said 'it's not over', and sure enough, it wasn't. It got even better.

What I could've done without was the slightest hint of budding romance between Ender and Petra. They're too young for love! (half serious/half not)

I'm really glad someone agreed with me, because after reading through this thread it looked like no one liked/ would like the movie.

To be honest I completely forgot about Petra's character, probably because I read Speaker for the Dead, and none of the characters return except Ender and Valentine. I remember when they announced casting for the movie, and I was just like "Who's Petra?". That being said, since I don't remember anything she did in the book I don't really know whether the movie took their relationship just a tad too far or not. I'll just assume so based on your reaction lol (and in response to "too young for love", I answer with Moonrise Kingdom).

 

[Evello]

The movie was okay. There have been far worse book adaptations. And the first half or so was an excellent translation of the general feel of the book. The end was a bummer for me, though. Because the movie had such harsh time restrictions, they couldn't really portray Ender's trauma in school to any meaningful degree, and that was the main focus of the book. Every major victory Ender achieved in the back half of the book was him essentially winning to spite the adults rigging the system against him. He was angry and lonely and basically gave up in the end, hoping he would get kicked out but not having the heart to quit. The fact that he was pretty composed in the final battle just seemed very against the whole point of the book.

Additionally, Dragon Army's battles were (if I remember correctly) a good majority of the book, but the army basically was skipped in the movie. Obviously this was due to time constraints, which is understandable, but I feel like there were enough fluff scenes in the movie that could have been cut to at least add some sort of Dragon Army montage.

That said, the actors were all pretty good. I liked them all, and Butterfield and Ford were especially good. The visuals were pretty awesome. And the movie did stick pretty precisely to the events of the books, which I appreciate. The only plot change that actually bothered me was the Hive Queen being hidden on Eros, not ten feet from the human compound. Apparently the explorers there did a pretty half-hearted scan of their surroundings. But when compared with other recent book-movie adaptations, that's pretty tame.

 

[Luap]

[video=youtube;311O4s_cFbs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=311O4s_cFbs[/video]

More books are being written that take place in Battle School after Ender's Game. Even though I swear it was said the Shadow Series that Battle School was taken down shortly after Ender killed the Formics? huh

hopefully he gets around to writing Shadows Alive first because that's really the only new ender book i want

 

[drumstickwielder]

I'm kind of disappointed that Card keeps writing books based on Battle School among other things outside the five original Ender novels, and here's why. I don't know how many people actually know this, but the first book of the "Enderverse" that he really wanted to write was Speaker for the Dead. However, he realized he couldn't write about the events and themes of that book unless he set up the main character and universe with another novel, so he wrote Ender's Game. Don't believe me, here's an excerpt from the Ender's Game Wikipedia page:

In a commentary track for the 20th Anniversary audiobook edition of the novel, as well as in the 1991 Author's Definitive Edition, Card stated that Ender's Game was written specifically to establish the character of Ender for his role of the Speaker in Speaker for the Dead, the outline for which he had written before novelizing Ender's Game.

Now, I'm not saying Ender's Game isn't a great book, because it is a great book. Personally, I thought Speaker for the Dead was the better novel, although it's difficult to compare the two because they are vastly different in many aspects. What I am saying is that all the characters of Ender's Game and the whole concept of Battle School was just a awesome set-up to what becomes a very big payoff in Speaker for the Dead. However, because of the popularity of Ender's Game, someone saw how big the cash cow was and decided to write a book that took place during Ender's Game; I am of course talking about Ender's Shadow. While I did read that book and I thought it was fine reading, I didn't really see the point to it because it didn't add much to the series, although after reading this thread it sounds like the sequels become more significant later on in the series.

I also haven't read anything past Speaker for the Dead, since the end of that novel was very obviously a set up for the next one, and I liked Speaker for the Dead too much to come to expect the same thing form the later novels.

So yeah, I consider anything outside the original five books to be milking the cash cow, and I'd rather enjoy the phenomenal-ness that is both Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead and not ruin it by reading all the extra stuff Card decided to write after the fact.

Edit: When I said five, I really meant the four original books, which are Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind. There's so many books I can't keep track.

 

[Luap]

I'm kind of disappointed that Card keeps writing books based on Battle School among other things outside the five original Ender novels

I also haven't read anything past Speaker for the Dead, since the end of that novel was very obviously a set up for the next one, and I liked Speaker for the Dead too much to come to expect the same thing form the later novels.

You haven't read the whole Ender Quintet, so you wouldn't know why and I won't say because spoilers, but Ender's story comes to a very absolute conclusion in Children of the Mind. If you don't care about spoilers, Ender dies.

There's a bunch of characters that Children of the Mind gave us though that have lingering plot threads and need to be tied up. That's supposed to happen in a book titled Shadows Alive, and is also supposed to bring together the story from the Shadow Saga and the Ender Quintet. This book was announced a long time ago though and nothing has happened with it.

There's so many books I can't keep track.

Here's a simple run down of all the books:

Ender Quintet: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind
Shadow Saga: Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant

The Ender Quintet and the Shadow Saga are the main books of the series. The Ender Quintet tells the story of Ender. The Shadow Saga tells the story of Bean. The Shadow Saga also acts as a setup for quite a few of the plot points that appear in the Quintet, though not very directly.

First Meeting: This book is not actually a book. It's a collection of side stories. One story is about Ender's dad, John Paul. Another story is about how John Paul and how he meets Theresa, the woman who becomes Ender's mother. The third story is the original short story that was Ender's Game and is non-canon. The final story is about Ender meeting Jane and is probably the only worthwhile story in the book.

A War of Gift: A short story that takes place during Ender's time in Battle School. It's about a boy named Zeck. It's not related to the rest of the series in anyway though.

Ender in Exile: An interquel between Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead and is actually about Ender. It follows his story on the ship that he and Valentine are traveling on to go to the first colony. And then actually the story of them being at the colony. And then after they leave the colony. It also ties in with the Shadow Saga and solves a big mystery that was left in those books. Probably the best book that's not apart of the main sagas.

Shadows in Flight: A sequel to the Shadow Saga that is about Bean and his children. They discover some really interesting Formic stuff. Introduces some things about Hive Queens that makes you question a lot of what happens in the Ender Quintet that may or may not mean she is actually a villain.

Formic Wars trilogy: Earth Unaware, Earth Afire

The Formic Wars trilogy is the newest books. The final book, Earth Awakens, is coming out in 2014. This trilogy is about the first Formic War. The first book, Earth Unaware, was pretty good. I haven't read Earth Afire all the way through yet, but I read about half of it and didn't care for a lot of it.

 

[drumstickwielder]

Luap, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. From the way you lay out the main books, they do sound interesting, but I'm still a skeptical. Are these books simply telling stories like Ender's Shadow, or are they more philosophical like Speaker for the Dead? Also, I believe this is the order they should be read in, but correct me if I'm wrong: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant, Ender in Exile, Shadows in Flight.

Also, thank you for listing all the books in the series. It was both helpful and informative.

 

[Zettaflare]

‘Ender’s Game’ Sequel Could Land on TV | /Film

 

[Evello]

Luap, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. From the way you lay out the main books, they do sound interesting, but I'm still a skeptical. Are these books simply telling stories like Ender's Shadow, or are they more philosophical like Speaker for the Dead? Also, I believe this is the order they should be read in, but correct me if I'm wrong: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant, Ender in Exile, Shadows in Flight.

Also, thank you for listing all the books in the series. It was both helpful and informative.

The remainder of the Ender Quintet is extremely philosophical, and delves into theoretical fantasy physics and its connection to the soul. It gets really, really deep and out there. Still, quite a good read. The Shadow Saga is less philosophical, if I recall correctly (it's been ~7 years). It's a more political series; mostly it involves nations, leaders, and armies vying for power in the aftermath of Ender's Game/Shadow. Those books are still quite good, although pretty much all the books outside Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow are slower paced and feature very little action. I did appreciate the focus on Battle School grads other than Ender and his jeesh in the Shadow series, though. Virlomi comes to mind as a very cool character.

I would also include Ender in Exile and Shadows in Flight in the main series. They contain pretty critical plot revelations, even if they aren't the most gripping and relevant stories. They're both good reads, just much less ambitious. And yes, your order would be perfect. It's the order I read the books in.