Time Travel... it's so simple!

[Karn1254]

I completed the game last night and, I'm sorry, as this board is filled with this sort of thing already, but I don't understand some plot things. I've been reading around, but I can't seem to wrap my head around certain aspects, so any help would be appreciated...

1. I was confused by exactly WHICH Xehanort the brown hooded figure is, and if one of the rules for time travel in this series is "you can't change the time line" so to speak, then isn't collecting various versions of yourself and bringing them to the present... a pretty drastic change? Sidenote: I think it was ridiculous to make so much ride on the brown hooded figure, it seems to be just taking a tiny thing and blowing it up to mammoth proportions. Also, Yen Sid turned Sora and Riku into their younger selves, this seems to be time travel, but no one gave up their body...

2. Is the implication that Sora is dreaming while... awake and moving through the realms of sleep? Like, initially, I thought that to take the exam Riku and Sora would literally be asleep on a bed or something and the game takes place in a dream scape... but I suppose that is not the case? And am I really supposed to believe that Riku entered into Sora's dreams and became a dream eater (that was actually a kinda cool thing) by "instinct"... how could he realize something was wrong if not consciously? (not such a cool thing)

Perhaps these questions are not very clear, but I do not know where to begin honestly. Personally, I think bringing Time Travel into KH is a terrible idea, the plot was convoluted enough, and the actual development of the characters is obscured even further now.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

1. I was confused by exactly WHICH Xehanort the brown hooded figure is

Ansem: Seeker of Darkness/Xehanort's Heartless was the Xehanort in the brown cloak. Has been since KH1.

and if one of the rules for time travel in this series is "you can't change the time line" so to speak, then isn't collecting various versions of yourself and bringing them to the present... a pretty drastic change?

I'd say there is a bit of predetermination included in this. The events were to happen so they haven't changed anything, as well as the fact they did not tamper with past events that have already occurred. They were brought to the present where there was nothing to tamper with. Also, once these people return to their original times they do not remember anything that had occurred (though I'm sure Xehanort has also found a way around that rule as well.)

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but SoD was bringing these people to the present and bypassing some rules by having it all done through the Realm of Sleep.

Sidenote: I think it was ridiculous to make so much ride on the brown hooded figure, it seems to be just taking a tiny thing and blowing it up to mammoth proportions.

Considering in the end every person involved in this plan IS Xehanort/part-Xehanort and all of this has been planned for a very long time, the--oh. You mean...Lol, well the brown cloaked figure has always been Ansem: Seeker of Darkness, just without a physical form. I hardly see that as blowing a small thing up.

Also, Yen Sid turned Sora and Riku into their younger selves, this seems to be time travel, but no one gave up their body...

While not explained in game, and again somebody can correct me because I am hardly an expert on KH3D, but either it was because it was because of the fact Yen Sid sent them into the past that Riku and Sora did not have to give up their bodies and not Sora and Riku themselves trying to travel time, or some other reason like Sora and Riku briefly body-snatched their younger selves or whatever like ugh THIS is why I haven't delved deeper into KH3D.

Please, somebody correct me. xD

2. Is the implication that Sora is dreaming while... awake and moving through the realms of sleep?

Yes.

Like, initially, I thought that to take the exam Riku and Sora would literally be asleep on a bed or something and the game takes place in a dream scape... but I suppose that is not the case?

That was what we all thought it'd be. xD

And am I really supposed to believe that Riku entered into Sora's dreams and became a dream eater (that was actually a kinda cool thing) by "instinct"... how could he realize something was wrong if not consciously? (not such a cool thing)

Riku's senses have always been stronger than normal (as seen in CoM), and because of his past connection with SoD/Xehanort's Heartless coupled with his drive to protect the people he cares about (in this instance, Sora), on a subconscious level he knew something was wrong when he saw SoD after he and Sora went crashing into the ocean. Because they were kinda passing out, Riku's very keen instinct to protect took over and he entered Sora's dreams.

Personally, I think bringing Time Travel into KH is a terrible idea, the plot was convoluted enough, and the actual development of the characters is obscured even further now.

I do agree it wasn't the best decision to have time travel (at least in this form and not how it was in KH2.) but it's here and we can't ignore it. 8D

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

Also, once these people return to their original times they do not remember anything that had occurred (though I'm sure Xehanort has also found a way around that rule as well.)

I think Young Xehanort kinda implied that, although he would forget, the path set by the plan would be etched in his heart. Remember COM, the memories will still be there, but the chains connecting them in the heart aren't set. So its kinda like they subconsciously know what to do next

 

[Evello]

1. I was confused by exactly WHICH Xehanort the brown hooded figure is, and if one of the rules for time travel in this series is "you can't change the time line" so to speak, then isn't collecting various versions of yourself and bringing them to the present... a pretty drastic change? Sidenote: I think it was ridiculous to make so much ride on the brown hooded figure, it seems to be just taking a tiny thing and blowing it up to mammoth proportions. Also, Yen Sid turned Sora and Riku into their younger selves, this seems to be time travel, but no one gave up their body...

The brown-hooded figure is Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, also known as Xehanort's Heartless. And you're correct that in KH the timeline cannot be changed, but the idea is that no timeline ever was changed. There is no future without all the Xehanorts gathered: that is the future. As for the past, after their future escapades, every form of Xehanort returns to their proper time with their memories wiped. Everything stays constant. Following Xemnas, he is produced from Apprentice Xehanort's experiments, starts the Organization, at some point is taken to the future, battles Sora in the realm of sleep, then returns back to his time with no memory of the future, and then is defeated by Sora in KH2. Nothing is ever changed.

As for Sora and Riku, their young forms were not a result of time travel. They actually did travel through time to DI right at the beginning, but the change in their appearance was separate. Yen Sid made them appear young again to re-learn the use of the Keyblade, and made the spell last until they returned to the Mysterious Tower. As for their time travel to DI, yeah, it makes no sense and breaks all the rules of time travel. Nomura hasn't even tried to explain it.

2. Is the implication that Sora is dreaming while... awake and moving through the realms of sleep? Like, initially, I thought that to take the exam Riku and Sora would literally be asleep on a bed or something and the game takes place in a dream scape... but I suppose that is not the case? And am I really supposed to believe that Riku entered into Sora's dreams and became a dream eater (that was actually a kinda cool thing) by "instinct"... how could he realize something was wrong if not consciously? (not such a cool thing)

Up until TWTNW, I thought he was awake within the dreams of the worlds. But I could be wrong, that was just how I saw it. It really doesn't matter.

Perhaps these questions are not very clear, but I do not know where to begin honestly. Personally, I think bringing Time Travel into KH is a terrible idea, the plot was convoluted enough, and the actual development of the characters is obscured even further now.

I agree to an extent. I don't like time travel in KH, but I wouldn't care if it was done well, and you know, they didn't break their own rules in the very game they introduce them in.

 

[Theta]

... As for their time travel to DI, yeah, it makes no sense and breaks all the rules of time travel. Nomura hasn't even tried to explain it.

I agree to an extent. I don't like time travel in KH, but I wouldn't care if it was done well, and you know, they didn't break their own rules in the very game they introduce them in.

You mean they did break their own rules? Also, That bugs me too that Nomura hasn't even tried to explain it.

 

[Evello]

You mean they did break their own rules? Also, That bugs me too that Nomura hasn't even tried to explain it.

As far as I, or anyone else I've talked to on this site, can figure out, yeah they did. Braig says Sora and Riku traveled through time (which is also implied elsewhere), and YMX says that to travel through time you must give up your body. Sora and Riku never gave up their bodies, so... it doesn't make any sense.

 

[billyzanesucks]

As far as I, or anyone else I've talked to on this site, can figure out, yeah they did. Braig says Sora and Riku traveled through time (which is also implied elsewhere), and YMX says that to travel through time you must give up your body. Sora and Riku never gave up their bodies, so... it doesn't make any sense.

They kind of did that in KHI, though it might not count now. You only need to give up your body once.

 

[Reagan Rayden]

It's less about giving up your body as it is being reduced to nothing but a heart. I don't think Sora or Riku have ever had to deal with being just that. Forever.

The only reason Ansem SoD had his body near the end of KH1 was because he took over Riku's body.

 

[billyzanesucks]

It's less about giving up your body as it is being reduced to nothing but a heart. I don't think Sora or Riku have ever had to deal with being just that. Forever.

The only reason Ansem SoD had his body near the end of KH1 was because he took over Riku's body.

But in the realm of darkness, before Ansem was defeated, Riku wandered as a heart. It's more debatable whether Sora was ever only a heart, since he gained a new body when Kairi purified him, and he was a Heartless before that.

I don't know. It seems like some people on Gamefaqs have fallen under the impression that Merlin's time magic was involved.

 

[Karn1254]

Mmkay, it makes me feel better to know that I'm not the only one confused about some things. Yet another question: SoD traveled through time because he didn't have a body to talk to YX and tell him what to do (I'm assuming because he could travel through time he could have viewed the future and thus knew what would happen?) fair enough, but then, how does YX have the ability to gather them all together? How can he gain the ability to time travel, is it something to do with the sleeping worlds? (also I'm assuming that Young Xehanort is the younger version of Master Xehanort before he grew up and was all "I'm going to take over everything in the most round-about way possible" NOT simply Terra-nort, who was indeed young... right?)

Also, how will the gathering of the 13 darknesses happen again for KH3? Simply someone will do the same thing again?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

No, Ansem SoD didn't know the future, even Master Xehanort says that the future is beyond his sight.
The main reason for the time travel-stuff is that it serves as yet another of Xehanort's many backup-plans.

The plans Xehanort made for KH 1 and KH 2 were a fail-safe for his plans in BBS while the time-travel-plot is the fail-safe for when the plans of KH 1 and KH 2 go wrong.
Xehanort planned this to always have a win-win situation.

As to why Young Xehanort has the ability to time-travel, that's because Ansem SoD reduced just to a heart gave these powers to Young Xehanort.
The Young Xehanort is indeed a teenage Xehanort from when he was still living on the Destiny Islands. That's also why he uses his blue lightsabers against Terra, Aqua and Ven in Birth by Sleep. Young Xehanort is not yet a Keyblade Wielder because he comes from the past before Xehanort gained the Keyblade.

As for why Young MX can time-travel without tossing away his body, you only have to do that once and Ansem SoD already did that for all Xehanort-incarnations.
Or to say it shorter: Xehanort simply cheats. When one incarnation/version of Xehanort (which is everyone that carries a part of him) discards the body, it counts for all Xehanorts.

Young Xehanort is a member of the new Organisation, so it stands to reason that when the time comes Master Xehanort will summon him and all other time-displaced Xehanorts will reappear together with him.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

*Gasp* A villain that doesn't play fair??

 

[Karn1254]

Haha, fair enough. I wonder why YX couldn't just gather them all back together whenever he wanted like, say, right when Sora and Riku finish their exam, or anytime really. Perhaps their's no point until the 7 guardians are together, since it's the actual clashing that makes the X-Blade. And does that mean that since SoD gave up his body then all of the Xehanort incarnations can time travel and just... don't know it?

and another thing! If Riku unlocked the 7 keyholes of sleep, but he was really in Sora's dreams, didn't he technically... not do what was required of him at all? In that he did not unlock the ACTUAL keyholes, Sora did... and still didn't get to be a master. Not that he minded, but still.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Haha, fair enough. I wonder why YX couldn't just gather them all back together whenever he wanted like, say, right when Sora and Riku finish their exam, or anytime really. Perhaps their's no point until the 7 guardians are together, since it's the actual clashing that makes the X-Blade.

Nomura said that The World That Never Was is a special place, being in the realm between, and so it operates by its own rules, which are supposed to be explained later. It's apparently the only place where all forms of Xehanort are capable of gathering at the moment.

And does that mean that since SoD gave up his body then all of the Xehanort incarnations can time travel and just... don't know it?

I think they all know it; they should have remembered from Young Xehanort's meeting with Ansem.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

and another thing! If Riku unlocked the 7 keyholes of sleep, but he was really in Sora's dreams, didn't he technically... not do what was required of him at all? In that he did not unlock the ACTUAL keyholes, Sora did... and still didn't get to be a master. Not that he minded, but still.

Thats been debated in a thread I made (and poorly titled) before it got off track. The whole point wasn't really to unlock the keyholes, but to gain the power to dive into sleeping worlds/hearts by doing that, which Riku succeeded in (and Sora too, but he got a little bit sidetracked)

 

[ajmrowland]

It's easy to get around the sora and riku thing, since Yen Sid was the one who sent them back, and they had before given up their bodies, but that part might not be relevant now. Xehanort sent himself through time.

As for the power of diving back into the sleeping worlds, it was never clear where they actually got it, but Riku probably got it from Sora.

 

[zaqareemalcolm]

and another thing! If Riku unlocked the 7 keyholes of sleep, but he was really in Sora's dreams, didn't he technically... not do what was required of him at all? In that he did not unlock the ACTUAL keyholes, Sora did... and still didn't get to be a master. Not that he minded, but still.

He had unlocked the Sleeping Keyholes through Sora's dreams, which are reimaginings of the Sleeping Worlds. Sora, however, didn't. He unlocked pathways OrgXIII-2 had left and disguised as Sleeping Keyholes to lure him to TWTNW.

 

[ajmrowland]

But surely he did awaken the sleeping worlds right?

 

[Smithee]

 

[Sephiroth0812]

But surely he did awaken the sleeping worlds right?

He did, Sora actually DID open sleeping keyholes and awakened the real sleeping worlds as well as gained the same power than Riku did to awaken hearts.

I don't know where that OrgXIII-pathway-stuff comes from as the Org cannot create Keyholes and it was never said ingame that the Keyholes were anything other than Sleeping Keyholes.
The luring to TWTNW only happened after the last sleeping world was cleared, when Sora actually left the Realm of Sleep. Instead of returning to the Mysterious Tower he was redirected to TWTNW, it's as simple as that.