Unbirth/Sense of Self Theory

[Ven's keyblade]

I was just reading the thing Kairi's grandmother says to her. It says and I quote
"Long ago, people lived in peace, bathed in the warmth of light.
Everyone loved the light.
Then people began to fight over it.
They wanted the light for themselves.
And darkness was born in their hearts.
The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts.
It covered everything, and the world disappeared.
But small fragments of the light survived... in the hearts of children.
With these fragments of light, children rebuilt the lost world.
It's the world we live in now.
But the true light sleeps, deep within the darkness.
That's why the worlds are still scattered, divided from each other.
But someday, a door to the innermost light will open.
And the true light will return.
So, listen, child.
Even in the deepest darkness, there will always be light to guide you.
Believe in the light, and the darkness will never defeat you.
Your heart will shine with its power and push the darkness away.
Do you understand, Kairi? "
Look at the 11th line.It says how the true light slept deep within the darkness.And in the 8th line it says that children had fragments of light in them and rebuilt the world.For some reason I think this pertains to VAT as wielders of fragments of light which could actually make a good argument in the fake or real keyblade debate as to say the their keyblades weren't mde from memories or anything but light itself.And what if the 11th line speaks of the unbirth and that they are true light that couldn't get out and became shrouded in darkness.So instead of just hearts being corrupted it's the entire being that gets corrupted.

 

[Avens]

There are people who think that CO is MX's castle, or that it was built around his castle because of the crossroads and other small things. But, I'm not brave enough to take that up, and I'm not sure what I think about it.

According to this theory...people are the unbirth's right? They don't come from someone?

Yes, with this theory, the unbirths are made from people who have lost their sense of self and memories; they aren't someone's intentional creations.

@Ven's Keyblade--
It's been confirmed that this story didn't happen, that it's just a legend Kairi's grandmother was telling. And while it may connect to the main story in some ways, I think the 'true light' in the legend either refers to KH, which is in the realm on Darkness, or to the larger part of the light of which the children only had fragments. Not unbirths, although in my theory the entire being does become corrupted as a result of losing the sense of self.

 

[Zeagal]

So people can't have an Unbirth then, they are one...what is to become of the person's heart?

 

[keybladelegacy]

@Ven's Keyblade--
It's been confirmed that this story didn't happen,

What??? It wasnt confirmed the story may have some overlapping.

that it's just a legend Kairi's grandmother was telling. And while it may connect to the main story in some ways, I think the 'true light' in the legend either refers to KH,

Seems like a foreshadowing about KH.

which is in the realm on Darkness, or to the larger part of the light of which the children only had fragments. Not unbirths, although in my theory the entire being does become corrupted as a result of losing the sense of self.

Much like a heartless.

I was just reading the thing Kairi's grandmother says to her. It says and I quote

Look at the 11th line.It says how the true light slept deep within the darkness.And in the 8th line it says that children had fragments of light in them and rebuilt the world.

Seems more like the BWHoPL.

For some reason I think this pertains to VAT as wielders of fragments of light which could actually make a good argument in the fake or real keyblade debate as to say the their keyblades weren't mde from memories or anything but light itself.And what if the 11th line speaks of the unbirth and that they are true light that couldn't get out and became shrouded in darkness.So instead of just hearts being corrupted it's the entire being that gets corrupted.

True Light and the talk about the door seems to be a foreshadowing of KH.

 

[Avens]

What??? It wasnt confirmed the story may have some overlapping.

Question: Also, Kairi's grandmother tells her a story about "the world once perishing and being recreated by the light of the children." Is this "world recreated by the light of the children" in fact referring to all the worlds in the game?

Nomura--Yes, that's right. But that story wasn't history, it was a fairy tale. It doesn't mean that story equals the world's history precisely. Although, there is a certain degree of overlapping.
Not true to history, but some overlap.

So people can't have an Unbirth then, they are one...what is to become of the person's heart?

The heart loses it's memories and is filled with darkness where the memories used to be. This is different from a heartless, where the heart is taken from the body.

 

[Zeagal]

So similar to a heartless, but with a body?

 

[Avens]

^Right, and with a soul. Kinda like that.

 

[keybladelegacy]

I know, you said the story didnt happen. Nomura didnt say that. He said it didnt equal history precisely and it has overlapping.

EDIT:
How does that give true meaning to the word unbirth "unborn"

 

[Avens]

I know, you said the story didnt happen. Nomura didnt say that. He said it didnt equal history precisely and it has overlapping.

mmh, ok.

EDIT:How does that give true meaning to the word unbirth "unborn"

It refers to the state someone is in before they're born--without memories and without a sense of self.

 

[keybladelegacy]

It refers to the state someone is in before they're born--without memories and without a sense of self.

I can say that with the heartless and nobodies.

Using the body and soul again seems redundant.

 

[Avens]

I can say that with the heartless and nobodies.

Using the body and soul again seems redundant.

But the unbirths are supposed to be like precursor heartless, right? Also, nobodies can have both memories and a sense of self. Unbirths don't.

 

[keybladelegacy]

But the unbirths are supposed to be like precursor heartless, right? Also, nobodies can have both memories and a sense of self. Unbirths don't.

Human nobodies have sense of self but not lesser nobodies.

 

[Avens]

Human nobodies have sense of self but not lesser nobodies.

Not important; what is essential is that lacking these elements, and having a soul, a body, and a heart, is what defines an unbirth. The thing about nobodies is that they definitely lack hearts (sans Roxas, maybe). Heartless definitely don't have bodies. Unbirths definitely don't have memories.

Now, heartless also always lack memories(excepting the special cases), but darkness consumes the whole heart to make a heartless, and with an unbirth, darkness fills the space where there are no longer memories. So not having memories is more important in an unbirth. (Did that make any sense?) One consumes the heart, one fills the heart, with darkness.

 

[keybladelegacy]

Not important; what is essential is that lacking these elements, and having a soul, a body, and a heart, is what defines an unbirth. The thing about nobodies is that they definitely lack hearts (sans Roxas, maybe). Heartless definitely don't have bodies. Unbirths definitely don't have memories.

Heartless dont have memories. Unbirths may not have hearts.

Now, heartless also always lack memories(excepting the special cases), but darkness consumes the whole heart to make a heartless, and with an unbirth, darkness fills the space where there are no longer memories. So not having memories is more important in an unbirth.

Also with nobodies they depend on their memories.

(Did that make any sense?) One consumes the heart, one fills the heart, with darkness.

Darkness is already in the heart, darkness doesnt need to fill it or fill where the memories are stored.

 

[Avens]

Heartless dont have memories. Unbirths may not have hearts.

But more importantly, heartless are separate from their bodies--they are only the hearts. Unbirths, as I'm defining them, have hearts.

If you're confused over the way I put it: heartless are the heart taken by darkness, nobodies are the bodies taken by darkness, unbirths are the being taken by darkness (which has replaced the sense of self).

Nobodies depend on their memories, true, which makes memory important to nobodies.
Memories are important to the definition of an unbirth, and also happen to be what the unbirth is searching for.

Darkness is already in the heart, darkness doesnt need to fill it or fill where the memories are stored.

So you're saying that the darkness can come from inside the heart already, and that's the darkness that takes up the space where the memories no longer are? Fine.
The darkness of a normal person is tame, you could say. The darkness of a heartless, or an unbirth, is not.

 

[keybladelegacy]

But more importantly, heartless are separate from their bodies--they are only the hearts. Unbirths, as I'm defining them, have hearts.

Oh my gosh I thought you said the unbirths are body and soul without any memories or sense of self.
Unless you mean their hearts are captured by the darkness that replaced the memories.

If you're confused over the way I put it: heartless are the heart taken by darkness, nobodies are the bodies taken by darkness, unbirths are the being taken by darkness (which has replaced the sense of self).

How can darkness replace the sense of self?

Nobodies depend on their memories, true, which makes memory important to nobodies.
Memories are important to the definition of an unbirth, and also happen to be what the unbirth is searching for.

What makes them want memories they dont retain a sense of self or memories. They are wild.

So you're saying that the darkness can come from inside the heart already, and that's the darkness that takes up the space where the memories no longer are? Fine.
The darkness of a normal person is tame, you could say. The darkness of a heartless, or an unbirth, is not.

For the heartless the darkness comes from within the heart. So if the unbirths are similar to the heartless can darkness from within the heart replace the memories and sense of self.

 

[Avens]

Oh my gosh I thought you said the unbirths are body and soul without any memories or sense of self.
Unless you mean their hearts are captured by the darkness that replaced the memories.

Unbirths are the full being, with darkness instead of memories, which corrupts the full. Sorry if it was unclear... No, I'm not defining them as a nobody rehash.

How can darkness replace the sense of self?

If the sense of self is missing (and it would be missing, since unbirths take the sense of self and memories) then darkness can come into the space where they used to be in the heart.

What makes them want memories they dont retain a sense of self or memories. They are wild.

Unbirths have an instinct to go after memories, much like heartless have an instinct to go after hearts.

Try to use question marks, please ^^ it is difficult sometimes to find your questions.

 

[Memory Master]

Some of you are missing the point of the theory.

You don't remember anything from your time in the womb, correct? You had no memories and therefore you were not aware of anything not even yourself.

This theory says that unbirths are people who have had their memories taken. So they forget everything including themselves leaving their hearts empty. The darkness fills the void of where the memories once were and the person becomes an unbirth. This causes an unbirth to be in a state similar to how we are in the womb thus the name "unbirth".

Does it make sense now?

 

[keybladelegacy]

Some of you are missing the point of the theory.

You don't remember anything from your time in the womb, correct? You had no memories and therefore you were not aware of anything not even yourself.

This theory says that unbirths are people who have had their memories taken. So they forget everything including themselves leaving their hearts empty. The darkness fills the void of where the memories once were and the person becomes an unbirth. This causes an unbirth to be in a state similar to how we are in the womb thus the name "unbirth".

Does it make sense now?

Thats just comparing it to what happens in the womb.

@Avens
Where do the memories go?

 

[Memory Master]

Thats just comparing it to what happens in the womb.

@Avens
Where do the memories go?

Unborn = before birth = in the womb. A person without memories = a person without awarness of anything even themselves = An existence like that of being unborn = unbirth.

He explained that when the memories are taken, the memories are stolen by other unbirths that consume the memories into darkness. That's where the memories go.