Did anyone dislike Xion?

[Goldpanner]

In KH2, we only ever saw the real Roxas in a few scenes which showed him at his worst.

As it turned out, in any case.

Roxas had no context under which to want anything, either, and single-minded determination doesn't really make much sense for a character like that.

If that were true, he should have been a cold-blooded killing machine that slowly learned to copy the reactions of others. And he would never have cared about making friends or any of that crap. Bringing in the influence of Sora's memories and Axel's childhood nostalgia is irrelevant to this argument because they are contained in Days.

I like this: Imaginary Friends, a Kingdom Hearts fanfic - FanFiction.Net

And besides, it's possible that he has a heart because of Ven or whatever crap is going to be unveiled in BbS. If so, it makes sense that he would know how to want.

(As for kids not relating to emotionless punks... are you serious? Kids themselves love that kind of stuff- it's their parents who aren't so thrilled with it.)

I think you and I have different images of 'emotionless punks'. I mean. they love the punk part, but the emotionless blank slate part doesn't work so well with kids. They get bored. They like their Narutos, Ash Ketchums and Soras, dorky punks, to be their protagonists. The emotionless ones work better in rival or antagonist roles in kids games, cause they don't take up eough screentime to get boring.

...I'm not so sure that being a seasoned shipper is the best credential there, since so much of shipping is the ability to pull all the strands of relationship potential (intentional or not) together into one big shippy thread.

...That was exactly the point I was trying to make. I was saying that as an warning as to why I possibly interpreted more Roku/Xion things than Smile did. I never said it was a good thing.

Then again, to me, the fact that RokuShi would essentially be selfcest overrides all romantic hinting less subtle than a Keyblade to the face. =P

Different strokes for different folks~

I'm not really sure what you were expecting. Even if they weren't worried about traumatizing the kiddies, I don't see why the Org should have been all that much nastier when their only goal is to get their hearts back.

...I was expecting fleshing out. And what do you mean 'nastier'? I never said that they should have been any meaner, I just said that their villain-ness was probably what made the writers reluctant to make them the real main characters.

Riku felt sorry for Xion but was more focused on convincing her to go back to Sora

Then what was Riku's 'take the time to think about what's right for you and your friends' line about? If he was really focused on convincing her, he wouldn't have encouraged her and comforted her like that; in fact, he could have knocked her out and taken her back against her will. It's not like he never did that. I'll tell you what it was about: 'uwaa Riku totally would hold me in his aaaaarms~'

beyond the fandom value - what true worth would it have to the game?

.....................................What true worth did Xion have, to anything? At least the org would have had fandom value.

The Apprentices' Somebodies weren't introduced for the lulz - they're crucial to Xehanort and AtW's plot, and now - BBS. Axel does have popularity going for him, yes, but we know that once the chance presents itself, he'll be shoved into importance as well so he's in the clear too.
But the rest of the Organization doesn't have that going for them. They're Nobodies. They can't suddenly have a "change of Heart" unless something drastic happens like whatever happened to Axel in Castle Oblivion.

Do you see what you're saying here? The rest of the org aren't crucial to anything so they couldn't have been crucial to anything--what? Why couldn't Luxord and Demyx have been crucial to something in Days? Xion was crucial to everything, and she was pulled out of the blue! Think about it. Before you knew anything about the game, you knew just as much about how Luxord spent that year as you did Xion.

Yet, once he did, and effort was put in...

TN ♥ you get it tooooo~

 

[Smile]

.....................................What true worth did Xion have, to anything? At least the org would have had fandom value.

I'm a broken record about that but I'll say it again - once the series ends and Xion gave us nothing more, then you can say that. But my views in the matter are well known. I believe she's tied to a lot more than what was bluntly said in the game.

Do you see what you're saying here? The rest of the org aren't crucial to anything so they couldn't have been crucial to anything--what?

Exactly. They were created from the get go not to serve too much of a purpose, so to me, it's pointless expecting them to suddenly gain importance. They're not crucial - hence they're not crucial, as ridiculous as it sounds.

Think about it. Before you knew anything about the game, you knew just as much about how Luxord spent that year as you did Xion.

I actually knew more about it than about Xion before I knew the game, glimpsing on KH2 and CoM and all. But that's part of why I didn't expect too much of the Org - based on what I saw before.

And here's another thing to consider, which you'll probably crank up to bad writing but that's how it is -
Save for Roxas, no other member related to Sora's story. Which is you know, what KH is all about. So seeing how they have to sacrifice everything on the alter of SoKai (which is where I also agree bad writing is here) there had to have been a Kairi to the Sora that is Roxas that ended up being more Sora than him because unlike Roxas, she actually got Sora's Memories.
Only I don't see it as bad writing as going by the intention behind the storytelling, I don't go BAAAAW over no Organization attention.
Since you know, no pants, no Sora relations, no service.

 

[gelandporn]

Exactly. They were created from the get go not to serve too much of a purpose, so to me, it's pointless expecting them to suddenly gain importance.

You're using a double standard here.
Xion's purpose was to advance the plot of Days, and it has been isolated to Days, so it's pointless to expect her to suddenly gain future importance.
See what I did there?

They're not crucial - hence they're not crucial, as ridiculous as it sounds.

It's not just ridiculous, it's circuitous, fallacious logic.
The fact that they aren't crucial isn't what made them non-crucial, the cause can't be the effect, it was the choice of the writer's to make them so. Just as easily, any one of them could have been crucial.

 

[Smile]

The thing is, their importance would've been as much out of the blue as Xion's was. Nothing in KH2 even hinted Luxord or Demyx had any sort of significance inside the Org or beyond it. Saix had going for him hintings about something special that went on between him and Axel so they used that to further develop the both of them. However, again - that was something hinted towards in KH2. And seeing how for Xaldin they didn't hint anything BEYOND the Beast's Castle, that's what it amounted up to in Days.

Also, Demyx and Luxord's Somebodies might end up being important in the future, who knows.
Just as Xion might end up being tied to Riku's wielding as can arguably be hinted in the games. See what I did there? Took things that needed you to actually think about them beyond simply shrugging and going "oh well, Sora clone, explained in full, carrying on" - because if only for Snarl of Memories, no, Xion wasn't fully explained. Hence she's not as isolated as one might think, at least not until a final mix that does explain her in full comes along.

 

[Key of Valor]

because if only for Snarl of Memories, no, Xion wasn't fully explained. Hence she's not as isolated as one might think, at least not until a final mix that does explain her in full comes along.

Everything about Xion was connected to other characters, primarily relating to Sora and Roxas. If she turned into Ven, one could claim that was because of her connection to Sora and Roxas. If she was part of some crazy dream in Snarl of Memories, one could claim that was because of her connection to Sora and Roxas.

Xion's connections to anywhere in the story exist through other characters. Therefore Xion's mysteries are only related to the mysteries of these characters, and therefore series can explain these mysteries through these characters without incorporating Xion at all.

That's not to say that it isn't possible for Xion to be featured or referenced in future installments, but she doesn't appear to be necessary one bit.

 

[gelandporn]

Saix had going for him hintings about something special that went on between him and Axel so they used that to further develop the both of them. However, again - that was something hinted towards in KH2.

Don't know what KH2 you were playing, but the one I played didn't have any reasonable hints about a relation between Saix and Axel.

See what I did there?

Using your own theory as evidence?
Playing both sides of the "importance of minor Organization members" debate to further your own purposes?

 

[Smile]

Not using it as evidence but to show that Xion most likely has a lot more to her than meets the eye. She was NOT fully explained, and Nomura tends to come back to stuff he left hanging.

If she was part of some crazy dream in Snarl of Memories, one could claim that was because of her connection to Sora and Roxas.

I'm still waiting to hear how seeing what went on between Riku and Zexion in Castle Oblivion has to do with her connection to Sora and Roxas. And if you wanna pull the indirect relation through Sora then hate to break it to you hun - that wasn't featured in-game and hence still left up hanging to be explained just what relation that would be that got to Xion.

That's not to say that it isn't possible for Xion to be featured or referenced in future installments, but she doesn't appear to be necessary one bit.

She'll be necessary if she's featuerd again because that is how Nomura chose to explain those things. You can whine as much as you want about how they could've done it in a gazillion of other ways but that's true for almost every plot event that took place in the series thus far. All that's really left to do is for the people that don't like it to keep a stiff upper lip or go write fanfiction.
Or stop going with the series if you hate it that much.

 

[Goldpanner]

All that's really left to do is for the people that don't like it to keep a stiff upper lip or go write fanfiction.
Or stop going with the series if you hate it that much.

Well, a fanfiction writer did write the scenario of Days.

 

[Smile]

Well, a fanfiction writer did write the scenario of Days.

Only that "fanfic" is the canon one. :\ and that's what makes so many of us not look down at Xion as nothing more than a self insertion target.

 

[riptide2497421]

I actually liked Xion because she was a pivotal character to the story, and all though she didn't get much screen time, it was her vulnerable weak personallity that led roxas to do what he did

 

[Goldpanner]

Only that "fanfic" is the canon one. :\ and that's what makes so many of us not look down at Xion as nothing more than a self insertion target.

Just because it's canon doesn't mean she's not a Mary Sue.

all though she didn't get much screen time

....What?

 

[Smile]

Just because it's canon doesn't mean she's not a Mary Sue.

Just because you don't like her getting the attention away from the other organization members doesn't mean she is, either. :\ seriously, just about nothing about Xion was instantly. Not her friendship with Roxas, or with Axel, or with Riku, or her fighting abilities, or her drama. It's just that with the Organization being what they are, Days had little to offer but Xion development and Emblem missions. Lots of screen time? Yes. Mary Sue by definition? Not really, no.
And to reference TN bringing up all the other drama queens that had "redeeming qualities" to them through their faults -
Who the hell ever said a redeeming character trait had to be a flaw? Compared with a lot of stuff we've seen in the series so far and yes I'm saying it - Kairi - Xion was indeed a breath of fresh air to me as far as her interactions went. Because sometimes bad things happen to good people without the good people messing up their karmas along the way.

 

[Goldpanner]

Just because you don't like her getting the attention away from the other organization members doesn't mean she is, either. :\

No, of course not.

Mary Sue by definition? Not really, no.

I'd like to see your definiton of Mary Sue.

Who the hell ever said a redeeming character trait had to be a flaw?

Because well developed characters have strengths and weaknesses...

 

[Audo]

I love reading this thread.

 

[Izayoi]

Watching Smile and GA go back and forth over Xion is like watching mommy and daddy fight over custody

 

[Audo]

"custody" would imply both of them want the child, when it seems clear the only one who wants it is Smile in this debate...

 

[KeybladeLegacy5]

Watching Smile and GA go back and forth over Xion is like watching mommy and daddy fight over custody

haha

"custody" would imply both of them want the child, when it seems clear the only one who wants it is Smile in this debate...

wow audo, give him a break...he was just meaning its an interesting argument

 

[Neko]

Xion has become one of my favorite characters. She is so much better then Kairi and she can actually fight.

 

[Goldpanner]

It's more like one of those really sad custody battles where Mummy is trying to force Daddy to take it sometimes and Daddy doesn't even want to pay child support.

 

[gelandporn]

Not using it as evidence but to show that Xion most likely has a lot more to her than meets the eye. She was NOT fully explained, and Nomura tends to come back to stuff he left hanging.

Uh, yes, yes she was.
No explanation of that single, solitary, rather ambiguous scene is needed. I'm not denying that there could be one, but insofar as we can surmise, she has been explained in full. That could just as easily be a scene left open to fan interpretation, like so many others in the KH series. Nothing has to necessarily come from it.

Or stop going with the series if you hate it that much.

This is ironic.
Could say the same thing to you concerning KH2.

Watching Smile and GA go back and forth over Xion is like watching mommy and daddy fight over custody

Really, if we're going with that metaphor, then I'm more of the neglectful relative who doesn't care about the child.
goldplanner is more of a parent whose hell bent on putting that child out of its miseries because of some mental retardation.

My early explanation applies to myself. I don't hate Xion, but I certainly don't like her much. There's a balance of particular likes and dislikes, but ultimately I don't think she did much for the series.