13 Darkness's / 13 Worlds (Theory)

[KHHacker6595]

I believe that each one of the vessels of Xehanort will have a specific world tied to them. I'm not sure on the reasons why but potentially to force the 7 Lights to attempt a clash. I have a theory on who the 13 Darkness's are, most have to do with the chess piece theory and each have relations to the possible worlds within the game. We know that a Darkness will be hinted at in a world based on the enemy types we see there. From the Heartless shown in the Tangled world, its pretty obvious to me that Marluxia is back as one of Master Xehanort's vessels.

So basically here's who I think some of the Darkness's are and each World they are tied to.

Master Xehanort - The Keyblade Graveyard
obvious connection

Young Xehanort - Destiny Islands
his home world, obvious connection

Xemnas - Twilight Town
can represent the Realm of Inbetween which is heavily tied to this world

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness - ?

Braig/Xigbar - San Fransokyo (Big Hero 6)
very modern in both technology and approach, uses a gun and speaks in slang, all traits of this world

Isa/Saix - Radiant Garden
his home world, obvious connection

Marluxia - Kingdom of Corona (Tangled)
flower based enemy types present in this world, flowers are integral to the worlds themes

Larxene - Mt. Olympus (Hercules)
tied to lightning, Zues specifically, Thunder was also the spell you learn here in KH1

? - Arendelle (Frozen)
I'm confident this will be a world

Luxord - ?

Vanitas - ?

Terra - The Land of Departure/Castle Oblivion
his home world, obvious connection


Whats your thoughts ?

 

[LightAndOblivion]

Dilan and Even were conscious like the others but were still unstable most likely due to the after effects of recompletion hence why they are resting.

They were not picked up like Braig and Isa.

So they are not vessels.

DDD made this clear.

As for the 13 occupying each world, eh i guess it's possible to meet them in each world. But we'll probably only get hints until the full reveal happen before the big showdown.

Also there will also need to be some big focus on the Disney villains in each specific world so while your idea isn't impossible it's not really all that likely to work out that way.


P.S. Being the most evil doesn't mean shit when it comes to vessel candidacy or we wouldn't have possibly Terra in the group or even Demyx if he's in the group.

 

[redcrown]

I like this idea somewhat. I always thought KH2 should have gone with this route more thoroughly for the Org13, to at least make them more relevant in the game. They tried this concept somewhat, but it wasn't too strong of a theme. All you really did was encounter and battle Xaldin in Beast's Castle (which was actually well done/awesome) and fight annoying Luxord for 2 hours in PotC. And the random throw-in nuisance of Demyx in Underworld.

Also, wouldn't Ansem SoD's world be End of the World from KH1? Unless it wasn't technically a world but more of a gateway/portal to them dark realm.

If they went with this though, I'm not sure if every villain should appear in every world. We would need a break from the main Xehanort villains/overall plot to focus on the Disney storylines and to give their own villains some screentime/importance to their world. Maybe some of they can make small cameo's in a few worlds and be more involved in others, depending on the world/existing villain.

Tbh honest though, I don't see it really happening. I see all the Xehanort villains and boss battles thrown in the end of the game, Nomura style.

 

[KHHacker6595]

I'm not saying each member will be the driving force behind their respective worlds, just that their presence is felt. I'm not saying Marluxia is going to be a boss in the Kingdom of Corona, just that he will use this world to his advantage similar to what Xaldin did with Beasts Castle. This doesn't mean he will be defeated here or even seen per see, just that he has an effect or tie to the world itself. This goes for the other darkness's.

I guess Xaldin and Vexen are not darkness's, so I will remove them from consideration.

 

[redcrown]

I'm not saying each member will be the driving force behind their respective worlds, just that their presence is felt. I'm not saying Marluxia is going to be a boss in the Kingdom of Corona, just that he will use this world to his advantage similar to what Xaldin did with Beasts Castle. This doesn't mean he will be defeated here or even seen per see, just that he has an effect or tie to the world itself. This goes for the other darkness's.

I guess Xaldin and Vexen are not darkness's, so I will remove them from consideration.

I misunderstood what you were saying then, sorry. Your idea of just a subtle tie-in sounds better. I actually think Disney villains coming back into focus/importance would be better overall. Bring back the KH1 stronger Disney vibe we've all been craving.

Also, I kind of doubt Marluxia was turned into a Xehanort vessel. Sora eliminated him before Xehanort could get to him. He also had that whole coup and plan to take overthrow the Org/Xemnas, so I doubt he even be willing to be a Xehanort pawn anyway. But maybe it could be revealed that he has regenerated and the Tangled world was his original home? It would make sense.

 

[KHHacker6595]

I misunderstood what you were saying then, sorry. Your idea of just a subtle tie-in sounds better. I actually think Disney villains coming back into focus/importance would be better overall. Bring back the KH1 stronger Disney vibe we've all been craving.

Also, I kind of doubt Marluxia was turned into a Xehanort vessel. Sora eliminated him before Xehanort could get to him. He also had that whole coup and plan to take overthrow the Org/Xemnas, so I doubt he even be willing to be a Xehanort pawn anyway. But maybe it could be revealed that he has regenerated and the Tangled world was his original home? It would make sense.

Nomura has said that the enemy types in a world are a clue to what Organization member is or has been there. The flower type enemies can only really tie in with Marluxia. Also again, I'm not saying the Organization member in a Disney world would mess up the Disney plot, just that their presence would be felt in some way. I'm with you 100% on the worlds being better focused, bringing the Disney villains back into importance, and keeping their vibe. What I'm suggesting shouldn't' detract from that.

 

[LightAndOblivion]

I misunderstood what you were saying then, sorry. Your idea of just a subtle tie-in sounds better. I actually think Disney villains coming back into focus/importance would be better overall. Bring back the KH1 stronger Disney vibe we've all been craving.

Also, I kind of doubt Marluxia was turned into a Xehanort vessel. Sora eliminated him before Xehanort could get to him. He also had that whole coup and plan to take overthrow the Org/Xemnas, so I doubt he even be willing to be a Xehanort pawn anyway. But maybe it could be revealed that he has regenerated and the Tangled world was his original home? It would make sense.

I really wished people would stop using that weak excuse for vessel candidates when you have Isa/Saix who was basically doing the same thing and yet he's a vessel

And it's been said once and will probably be said many more times after that, personality and motives does not mean shit to Xehanort. Once you have his heart inside you, it's game over.

Sora and Terra weren't willing yet they were still targeted and I'm sure Riku or Roxas wouldn't have been willing either and they were also targeted.


Plus Marluxia is a greedy bastard like Braig when it comes to power and Keyblade. Grandpa Nort has both. Even Marluxia would take the bait.

You're also forgetting recompletion. Just because Xehanort couldn't get to him as a Nobody doesn't mean he can't get to him as a fresh out of the bakery human.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Actually, let me place this proposition. 20 Worlds in total (including original worlds). It fits the motif of 7 lights versus thirteen darkness's.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

And it's been said once and will probably be said many more times after that, personality and motives does not mean shit to Xehanort. Once you have his heart inside you, it's game over.

Sora and Terra weren't willing yet they were still targeted and I'm sure Riku or Roxas wouldn't have been willing either and they were also targeted.

Practically this.

People who aren't willing to aid Xehanort's crazy plans are simply forced into subservience by different means.
They practically become prisoners in their own bodies while Xehanort uses the body for whatever he wants to.

The main difference between willing and unwilling vessels is only that the willing ones are still allowed a certain degree of personal freedom (like Braig) while the unwilling ones are for all intents and purposes slaves whose chains/leashes are held by the Overnort.

Plus Marluxia is a greedy bastard like Braig when it comes to power and Keyblade. Grandpa Nort has both. Even Marluxia would take the bait.

Going even further it is totally possible that Marluxia's human form would actually strike a deal with Xehanort just like Braig did before in exchange for the power of the Keyblade.

Marluxia: "Me? I'm by now quarter-Xehanort! And still much more fabulous than that old coot can ever hope to be..." (adjusts pink hair with silver stripes while flower petals fall around him)

 

[appleboy82791]

People who aren't willing to aid Xehanort's crazy plans are simply forced into subservience by different means.
They practically become prisoners in their own bodies while Xehanort uses the body for whatever he wants to.

The main difference between willing and unwilling vessels is only that the willing ones are still allowed a certain degree of personal freedom (like Braig) while the unwilling ones are for all intents and purposes slaves whose chains/leashes are held by the Overnort.

Yes to this.
There's so many theories for the 13 darknesses out there it's simply ridiculous. And they all have somewhat legitimate explanations. So considering that literally anyone can be forced into it, there's very little chance any of us could get it right. There's too many possibilities.

That being said, I do enjoy reading about more theories. They are usually very good, including this one. I just can't accept any of them as "likely to happen".

 

[Grizzly]

Practically this.

People who aren't willing to aid Xehanort's crazy plans are simply forced into subservience by different means.
They practically become prisoners in their own bodies while Xehanort uses the body for whatever he wants to.

The main difference between willing and unwilling vessels is only that the willing ones are still allowed a certain degree of personal freedom (like Braig) while the unwilling ones are for all intents and purposes slaves whose chains/leashes are held by the Overnort.

This is exactly how I thought of it. Those who are unwilling are treated much like slaves to Xehanort. Those who are willing are kinda like pets to him. He doesn't really force their hand until he needs to. Regardless, I think Xehanort generally takes who he wants.

 

[BlackOsprey]

Marluxia: "Me? I'm by now quarter-Xehanort! And still much more fabulous than that old coot can ever hope to be..." (adjusts pink hair with silver stripes while flower petals fall around him)

Thanks. Now I absolutely must see this happen or I'll be very disappointed.

This is exactly how I thought of it. Those who are unwilling are treated much like slaves to Xehanort. Those who are willing are kinda like pets to him. He doesn't really force their hand until he needs to. Regardless, I think Xehanort generally takes who he wants.

At this point, it's more of a question of who can't be 'norted... and although that's a pretty small group, it looks to me like Xehanort can't just use anyone he damn well pleases.
Just from what we've seen, anyone the old goat has possessed/'norted (excluding Trollanort, Xemnas, or Ansem SoD or Xigbar) has had a key weakness that left their heart vulnerable to darkness. Xehanort was able to hijack and control Terra and Riku only when they went crazy with darkness powers; Saix was too caught up in his own ambitions for his own good and cut himself off from his only friend; Sora had some memories that were explicitly stated to be capable of breaking his heart back in Re:Coded. And by DDD, Riku was ruled out as a vessel because of his "certain... resistance to darkness."

So basically, at this point, I think the only people that can be 100% ruled out are Riku and the PoH's. Anyone who can be seduced by promises of power is fair game. Forcing someone who wants absolutely nothing to do with this madness to be a vessel seems a lot more tricky and requires some convenient circumstances to work... But it's not impossible, of course.

 

[Muke]

Marluxia: "Me? I'm by now quarter-Xehanort! And still much more fabulous than that old coot can ever hope to be..." (adjusts pink hair with silver stripes while flower petals fall around him)

LOL, this'd be so accurate. I want this..

 

[VoidGear.]

But what would being tied to the worlds mean for them? They couldn't be defeated there, right? Final battle and shit, so all they might do would be control or help the evil Disney guys, soo....dunno what to think of it yet.

 

[BlackOsprey]

But what would being tied to the worlds mean for them? They couldn't be defeated there, right? Final battle and shit, so all they might do would be control or help the evil Disney guys, soo....dunno what to think of it yet.

Simple solution: get defeated in battle, retreat in a cutscene. Kicking a villain out of their world could serve the same purpose as "killing them off" in their local world's story.

 

[KHHacker6595]

Simple solution: get defeated in battle, retreat in a cutscene. Kicking a villain out of their world could serve the same purpose as "killing them off" in their local world's story.

this exactly, or in some situations they never are fought, just their presence is felt. The level design seems to be big and open with room for tons of exploration, so the Organization members could basically be a gameplay mechanic. They could change how the world works in terms of enemy types and situations you can engage in. I'm hoping KH3 has a ton of side quests similar to Final Fantasy that can be initiated through specific NPC's of certain worlds. I hope the worlds feel lived in and the Organization effect on them can show that change when they are there or not.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

This is exactly how I thought of it. Those who are unwilling are treated much like slaves to Xehanort. Those who are willing are kinda like pets to him. He doesn't really force their hand until he needs to. Regardless, I think Xehanort generally takes who he wants.

There'r really no beating around the bush in this one as what Xehanort does practically is slavery, just on a much more direct and personal level since he actually controls the bodies directly.
For the willing vessels he's like "meh they can do what they want as long as it doesn't interfere with my own plans".

Thanks. Now I absolutely must see this happen or I'll be very disappointed.


At this point, it's more of a question of who can't be 'norted... and although that's a pretty small group, it looks to me like Xehanort can't just use anyone he damn well pleases.
Just from what we've seen, anyone the old goat has possessed/'norted (excluding Trollanort, Xemnas, or Ansem SoD or Xigbar) has had a key weakness that left their heart vulnerable to darkness. Xehanort was able to hijack and control Terra and Riku only when they went crazy with darkness powers; Saix was too caught up in his own ambitions for his own good and cut himself off from his only friend; Sora had some memories that were explicitly stated to be capable of breaking his heart back in Re:Coded. And by DDD, Riku was ruled out as a vessel because of his "certain... resistance to darkness."

So basically, at this point, I think the only people that can be 100% ruled out are Riku and the PoH's. Anyone who can be seduced by promises of power is fair game. Forcing someone who wants absolutely nothing to do with this madness to be a vessel seems a lot more tricky and requires some convenient circumstances to work... But it's not impossible, of course.

Lol, I just thought such a statement would fit Marluxia since he's quite the narcisstic "fab" type. The very first instance in Re: CoM when he first removes the hood of his coat already shows that.

This is all correct, but if you want to get really technical Riku and the PoH's cannot be 100% ruled out either as while Xehanort may be unable to have their hearts fall to Darkness and thus gain control, if he manages somehow to force their hearts out of their bodies and have a piece of his own heart planted in them he could still use the bodies as vessels.
Drowing the heart that is the actual owner of the body in darkness is a measure by Xehanort to ensure that the other heart will be unable to put up much resistance against his control. That's why he went to such lengths in Sora's case and it is certainly a testament to the strength of Sora's heart that it took the combined agony of several people plus an one vs one duel against Xemnas to finally break it.

If he can somehow completely banish the heart from its own body though (which he tried and failed with Terra and Eraqus in the BBS Final Episode and succeeded with Riku in KH 1) or if it is empty already the body is still his to use. That was also the original idea/plan for the Organisation XIII as Xehanort had learned how much of a hassle it was to control one vessel that still had its original heart inside it which vehemently opposed him even when drowned in darkness. By having people lose their hearts and then trying to prevent them growing new ones, he would have had easier vessels to use.
This of course opens a whole other can of worms if the heart endures and finds help somewhere, as it may then be possible to return the heart to its body so it can fight Xehanort's "seed" for control and if successful, possibly banish Xehanort's seed from the vessel.
It would open some very interesting possibilities for awakening platform boss fights, especially if Sora goes alongside each heart trying to win its body back.

I'd also wager that in order to truly defeat Xehanort for good, all scattered seeds would need to be collected back in one place anyways or his main essence would still have possible retreat options.

LOL, this'd be so accurate. I want this..

Accurate indeed.

 

[BlackOsprey]

This is all correct, but if you want to get really technical Riku and the PoH's cannot be 100% ruled out either as while Xehanort may be unable to have their hearts fall to Darkness and thus gain control, if he manages somehow to force their hearts out of their bodies and have a piece of his own heart planted in them he could still use the bodies as vessels.
Drowing the heart that is the actual owner of the body in darkness is a measure by Xehanort to ensure that the other heart will be unable to put up much resistance against his control. That's why he went to such lengths in Sora's case and it is certainly a testament to the strength of Sora's heart that it took the combined agony of several people plus an one vs one duel against Xemnas to finally break it.

Yeah, I guess that's true, but the problem with Riku is that his heart's straight-up immune to darkness' negative effects. Pretty much all of Xehanort's possession methods have involved using darkness to infiltrate and control a host, so aside from outright removing Riku's heart from his body (which usually involves the use of darkness as well...), there's no way Xehanort can directly control him anymore.

If he can somehow completely banish the heart from its own body though (which he tried and failed with Terra and Eraqus in the BBS Final Episode and succeeded with Riku in KH 1) or if it is empty already the body is still his to use. That was also the original idea/plan for the Organisation XIII as Xehanort had learned how much of a hassle it was to control one vessel that still had its original heart inside it which vehemently opposed him even when drowned in darkness. By having people lose their hearts and then trying to prevent them growing new ones, he would have had easier vessels to use.

Again, every instance of attempted heart banishment we've seen was made possible only because the intended host had first gone off the dark deep end. At this point, the only plausible way Xehanort could use Riku as a vessel is to turn him into a Heartless and 'Nort the Nobody before it has a chance to grow a heart. And let's be honest, can you really see Riku losing to a Heartless at this point? He's fought AND defeated one of the most powerful Heartless of all, several times.

 

[WhinyAcademic]

I like this idea somewhat. I always thought KH2 should have gone with this route more thoroughly for the Org13, to at least make them more relevant in the game. They tried this concept somewhat, but it wasn't too strong of a theme. All you really did was encounter and battle Xaldin in Beast's Castle (which was actually well done/awesome) and fight annoying Luxord for 2 hours in PotC. And the random throw-in nuisance of Demyx in Underworld.

Also, wouldn't Ansem SoD's world be End of the World from KH1? Unless it wasn't technically a world but more of a gateway/portal to them dark realm.

If they went with this though, I'm not sure if every villain should appear in every world. We would need a break from the main Xehanort villains/overall plot to focus on the Disney storylines and to give their own villains some screentime/importance to their world. Maybe some of they can make small cameo's in a few worlds and be more involved in others, depending on the world/existing villain.

Tbh honest though, I don't see it really happening. I see all the Xehanort villains and boss battles thrown in the end of the game, Nomura style.

its a bit off topic but you piqued my interest. Was End of the World indeed just a portal to the dark realm? With the Final Rest being the final gateway into it? I've always loved End of the World for how scary it was, the heart of darkness and all, was just wondering. It certainly would tie into its the end of the world, like the end of the map.

I misunderstood what you were saying then, sorry. Your idea of just a subtle tie-in sounds better. I actually think Disney villains coming back into focus/importance would be better overall. Bring back the KH1 stronger Disney vibe we've all been craving.

Also, I kind of doubt Marluxia was turned into a Xehanort vessel. Sora eliminated him before Xehanort could get to him. He also had that whole coup and plan to take overthrow the Org/Xemnas, so I doubt he even be willing to be a Xehanort pawn anyway. But maybe it could be revealed that he has regenerated and the Tangled world was his original home? It would make sense.

Others beat me to it but if Xehanort wants you, you're his slave. Those who submit willingly or were already him (like Xemnas) have more autonomy. This is why my long-standing theory of Scar, Frollo, and Hans being perfect candidates has held water to me: they're so evil that Xehanort took them against their will, knowing he'd hit the jackpot.

Marluxia being forced as a Vessel would be a really grim punishment, me thinks, for leading a rebellion. But he doesn't waste him. He sees he's powerful, so he takes him. It'd be sad since Marluxia knew Xemnas didn't have their best interest at heart, but really cool.

 

[Anagram]

its a bit off topic but you piqued my interest. Was End of the World indeed just a portal to the dark realm? With the Final Rest being the final gateway into it? I've always loved End of the World for how scary it was, the heart of darkness and all, was just wondering. It certainly would tie into its the end of the world, like the end of the map.

No more like EoTW was the last stop. The portal to the Dark Realm was the Door to Darkness itself.