A Sentiment = Mind/ Memory?

[Sorakun12]

Many times in real life, four words of a person are placed together.

Heart, Mind, Body and Soul.

Now, three of these four things have already been used. The Heartless are the heart, and the Nobodys are the Body and Soul. Which leaves the Mind left behind. And knowing Nomura, he doesn't leave one thing unexplained.

If you think about it, the mind controls every other part of the body, and that remains constant even in a video game. Even in Kigndom hearts, it's the mind that plays the main part in keeping someone alive (Though, if the Heart is removed, then they are automatically gone.) Look at the case with Lingering Sentiment (LS). Terra's armor was simply nothing when MX took over. However, Terra became LS. And, you need a mind to work a body. Hence, the LS had to have some kind of mind to be able to fight, move, speak, or anything such as that.


With Vanitas Sentiment, Vanitas was defeated and returned to Ven. However, Ven then went into a comatose state, and placed in the Room of Awakening. From there, his heart went back to Sora, where they connected. With Vanitas still in Ven's heart, those moments would have given him a chance to escape, back to where he was defeated. However, being that he no longer possessed all four things that create a person, he could not be whole. He had a mind, and he had a heart. However, his body and soul no longer existed. Being that the Mind and Heart are both connected to someone's memories, that could be why Vanitas appears as he does, and no longer with his mask removed. He isn't what he was when he was defeated, only the memory of one.


Therefor, the Sentiments are simply memories of the old self. LS is a memory of Terra himself fighting in it, and Vanitas is a memory of the being he once was. The memories allowed them to have minds, and thus, allowed them to be a half being, in a way

 

[chasespicer056]

I think your theory makes some sense. Basically I share the idea that the LS and VS are merely memories and emotions formed from their true selves.

 

[Zulkir]

I'm not sure where I found "mind" to be separate from heart here. The Heart in KH are the emotions and memories of the person. The body is a physical form, and the soul is just a battery to keep the body alive.


The Sentiments are exactly what they are imo, really powerful feelings, so powerful that they actually have some sort of form.

Since feelings are a part of the heart you could say they are tiny, tiny fragments of a heart.

 

[SilverJ-17]

This actually seems pretty well thought out, but I doubt it's true. Mind is probably a part of one of the three parts already mentioned. I'm leaning more towards..

The Sentiments are exactly what they are imo, really powerful feelings, so powerful that they actually have some sort of form.

Since feelings are a part of the heart you could say they are tiny, tiny fragments of a heart.

this.

 

[Drake_Draco]

Doesn't Yen Sid explicitly say that Nobodies were different from Heartless because they could 'think and plan'? Meaning that they retained their minds? Because Nobodies are all the parts of a person left behind when a Heartless is created...
Don't get me wrong, Xehanort's Heartless could think too (apparently), but he was a unique case as he also retained a human form and could command the other Heartless... Just sayin'...

 

[Azrael]

By that definition, wouldn't Xion classify as Sora's sentiment in a way?

 

[SuperSailorEarth]

By that definition, wouldn't Xion classify as Sora's sentiment in a way?

so thus, replica=sentiment?

umm no. Xion was artificially created. The Lingering Sentiment was made from what appears to be Terra's strong will and soul. I personally think the heart can work in ways that don't follow a singular Nomura appointed rule; and that things can just happen under specific, individual circumstances.

 

[Drake_Draco]

so thus, replica=sentiment?

umm no. Xion was artificially created.

Xion was a replica created from the memories Xemnas stole from Sora at Hollow Bastion in KH1.
Apparently, memories dealing with Kairi, which is strange since there is no other mention of this memory loss for the rest of the series (Castle Oblivion aside) and he clearly remembers Kairi, so yah.

 

[SilverJ-17]

Xion was a replica created from the memories Xemnas stole from Sora at Hollow Bastion in KH1.
Apparently, memories dealing with Kairi, which is strange since there is no other mention of this memory loss for the rest of the series (Castle Oblivion aside) and he clearly remembers Kairi, so yah.

I'm not so sure that Xemnas actually stole them, only "sampled" them, possibly creating duplicates of the memories or taking some of the memories of Kairi, not all of them, hence the term "sample" and Sora not forgetting Kairi until during his visit to CO.

 

[Goldpanner]

I seem to recall Nomura talking about this kind of thing. You have to remember that the Japanese ideology is a little different to ours.

 

[SuperSailorEarth]

Xion was a replica created from the memories Xemnas stole from Sora at Hollow Bastion in KH1.
Apparently, memories dealing with Kairi, which is strange since there is no other mention of this memory loss for the rest of the series (Castle Oblivion aside) and he clearly remembers Kairi, so yah.

you missed the point. Xion and the LS are different things with different make-ups. Xion's BODY was artificial, and Sora's memories were never meant to go to her.

 

[Goldpanner]

Found it.

–What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?
Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.

See, you can't make theories based on the Western concept of heart/body/mind/soul.

If you look up 心 in a dictionary, you'll see that it can be translated as 'mind' depending on the context. But, it is also 'heart'. It's one thing, one huge concept that is different to us.

I'm not sure where I found "mind" to be separate from heart here. The Heart in KH are the emotions and memories of the person. The body is a physical form, and the soul is just a battery to keep the body alive.


The Sentiments are exactly what they are imo, really powerful feelings, so powerful that they actually have some sort of form.

Since feelings are a part of the heart you could say they are tiny, tiny fragments of a heart.

I'm pretty sure this is right. The word for 'sentiment' in Japanese is 思念, which as far as I know pretty much means something that's very much on your mind, or something you constantly care or worry about, like ingrained into your heart. It's similar to the word 'thought', but more important.

 

[Azrael]

Found it.



See, you can't make theories based on the Western concept of heart/body/mind/soul.

Heart and Soul are practically the same thing in Western culture. And in KH, the heart serves as the mind of the complete being while the soul (or memories) drives the nobody.

 

[chasespicer056]

Really though, we can't really focus on the mind and soul. Were either one ever ACTUALLY spoken of or mentioned in a Kingdom Hearts game?

I've realized that no matter how much we find out, no matter how many games there are, there will be some mystery. That's the point of a fantasy game. We can't fully understand the logic behind how Terra's anger could bring armor to life.

 

[Goldpanner]

Heart and Soul are practically the same thing in Western culture. And in KH, the heart serves as the mind of the complete being while the soul (or memories) drives the nobody.

I know, but then Nomura goes and says memories are important to the heart in a random interview. Which then did make sense seeing as how in CoM, messing with the heart went hand in hand with rearranging the memories... but then wtf do Nobodies have memories? I think there must be some Eastern concept we just don't get. Or Nomura just forgets his own mythology...

Really though, we can't really focus on the mind and soul. Were either one ever ACTUALLY spoken of or mentioned in a Kingdom Hearts game?

But you don't know if things have been translated differently sometimes. The localisation team may have found a different way to express words like 魂 and 心 depending on the context....

 

[Azrael]

Memories transfer to the Nobody after the Heart goes into darkness.

 

[Goldpanner]

But Dusks etc. don't get that, do they? They're just the battery-soul and the flesh-body. Empty shells, no heart, nowhere to put memories.

 

[Azrael]

But Dusks etc. don't get that, do they? They're just the battery-soul and the flesh-body. Empty shells, no heart, nowhere to put memories.

Well I don't know anything about that/

 

[State]

Now that we're talking about sentiments, Heartless and Nobodies, I was wondering how the Nobody had any memories if the heart is the storage of them, the body is only a vessel for the heart and soul and the soul is like a battery for the vessel to function. Since Xemnas says that the only thing he remembers is rage, perhaps the sentiments act as memories to then. Take for example, Terra's armor, he acted as though he know everything from beginning to end. So, I support the sentiment being memory.