About sora's level... (Fun discussion)

[Chie]

It's an RPG.

If they stop explaining it, he will still start at level 1 because it's an RPG.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It's an RPG.

If they stop explaining it, he will still start at level 1 because it's an RPG.

Yeah, that was my point.

 

[Face My Fears]

Sorry for the late reply, really had to think about this, why not just scale up the enemies in every game instead of starting Sora off at level 1? that way there's always a reason to level up without having to have a canon reason for it.

Because it's a new game, so the player has to get used to the system. If KH1 started off with Angel Star and Neo Shadow heartless, it would have been to difficult for some players. That's why in Pokemon Viridian Forest is so easy, so that players can get used to the battle system.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Because it's a new game, so the player has to get used to the system. If KH1 started off with Angel Star and Neo Shadow heartless, it would have been to difficult for some players. That's why in Pokemon Viridian Forest is so easy, so that players can get used to the battle system.

That's not what I meant, I meant like stronger starter enemies, like, say, if KH2 started with stronger shadows and soldiers, that's what I meant.

 

[Face My Fears]

That's not what I meant, I meant like stronger starter enemies, like, say, if KH2 started with stronger shadows and soldiers, that's what I meant.

They'd still be stronger. Like if you were to apply that to Pokemon, you have to fight a Level 5 Geodude, but it has Earthquake and Rock Slide. That would be difficult to deal with. On top of that, it means making the later enemies even stronger.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters if it's explained why he's at level 1 because he will always start at level 1.

 

[vaderskywalker]

They'd still be stronger. Like if you were to apply that to Pokemon, you have to fight a Level 5 Geodude, but it has Earthquake and Rock Slide. That would be difficult to deal with. On top of that, it means making the later enemies even stronger.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters if it's explained why he's at level 1 because he will always start at level 1.

Okay, I really need to rephrase this, I mean like you start at level 1, but with at least some stuff unlocked, the heartless are still weak at the beginning, but you don't have a canon explanation for it, nothing in the story happened to make you lose everything, you just start at level 1 again, of course when I say some stuff should already be unlocked, I mean like simple stuff, like the dodge roll, (BBS,KH3, and DDD did that right. ) and a few spells,(KH3 and DDD did that right, minus the canon explaination), all without a canon explanation. (And the thing I was saying about stronger heartless at the beginning, forget that part, I was trying to word it like this post, but it wasn't coming out right, sorry about that.)

 

[Face My Fears]

Okay, I really need to rephrase this, I mean like you start at level 1, but with at least some stuff unlocked, the heartless are still weak at the beginning, but you don't have a canon explanation for it, nothing in the story happened to make you lose everything, you just start at level 1 again, of course when I say some stuff should already be unlocked, I mean like simple stuff, like the dodge roll, (BBS,KH3, and DDD did that right. ) and a few spells,(KH3 and DDD did that right, minus the canon explaination), all without a canon explanation. (And the thing I was saying about stronger heartless at the beginning, forget that part, I was trying to word it like this post, but it wasn't coming out right, sorry about that.)

I still feel like that takes away from level design. For example, if Sora had access to Glide in Wonderland, then you could probably access everything in that world and not need to do a revisit. Part of a RPG and levelling up/upgrading is that the areas you visit are designed for what the player has at that moment, then it prompts players to want to revisit when upgraded (like the Trinities when you see them, but can't do anything with them).

I get that a simple fix would be to just design the worlds (enemies and physically) to match whatever abilities you give Sora to start with (whether it's a lot or nothing), but I feel like it takes away from the fun having him just have abilities from the get-go. I want to learn the game not needing Cure or Dodge Roll. I think having you go through a couple of worlds before getting Cure in KH1 was smart because it taught the player: 1) how to use items (during fights) and 2) how to plan before going into battles/preparing resources before going into worlds.

Most players would be familiar with these systems already, so at worst it's just a slight nuisance for experienced players (having to wait to unlock future abilities) and at best it's a nice way to guide newer players into understanding the game. I actually let someone (who never played games before) play KH3 (after I beat the game) and it was hard to explain Lock Shot, Summons, Reaction Commands, Abilities, Keyblade Transformations, Magic etc. all at once. That person did not have fun and felt overwhelmed. When I realized how much I would have to explain, I just loaded up my save file from Olympus and let them play from there, which they had fun there and actually got the hang of the game.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I still feel like that takes away from level design. For example, if Sora had access to Glide in Wonderland, then you could probably access everything in that world and not need to do a revisit. Part of a RPG and levelling up/upgrading is that the areas you visit are designed for what the player has at that moment, then it prompts players to want to revisit when upgraded (like the Trinities when you see them, but can't do anything with them).

I get that a simple fix would be to just design the worlds (enemies and physically) to match whatever abilities you give Sora to start with (whether it's a lot or nothing), but I feel like it takes away from the fun having him just have abilities from the get-go. I want to learn the game not needing Cure or Dodge Roll. I think having you go through a couple of worlds before getting Cure in KH1 was smart because it taught the player: 1) how to use items (during fights) and 2) how to plan before going into battles/preparing resources before going into worlds.

Most players would be familiar with these systems already, so at worst it's just a slight nuisance for experienced players (having to wait to unlock future abilities) and at best it's a nice way to guide newer players into understanding the game. I actually let someone (who never played games before) play KH3 (after I beat the game) and it was hard to explain Lock Shot, Summons, Reaction Commands, Abilities, Keyblade Transformations, Magic etc. all at once. That person did not have fun and felt overwhelmed. When I realized how much I would have to explain, I just loaded up my save file from Olympus and let them play from there, which they had fun there and actually got the hang of the game.

I don't consider certain abilities like glide as canon, we never see it used in cutscenes except for the one before the chernabog (I don't think I spelled that right) fight, and that was a dream, and the same goes for the attractions and shot lock's, they never show up in cutscenes, and I said a few spells, not all of them, and that includes cure, because you are right about that, it makes you not want to use potions because of how easy it is to use compared to potions, so that needs to stay unlockable and not given to you right away.

 

[Chie]

They're canon, because they're in the game.

 

[DolanGood]

Well the game would be far too easy if your LV stuck with you from game to game. Every character with exp would be op. Heck Sora alone would have a max lv of 600 (100 for each playable appearance)

counter argument,

but what's to stop them from just scaling enemies to be on stronger than Sora? Like if you start the game at level 50, would it not be reasonable that they could change all enemies to be at level 50 as well? If Sora has an HP of 600, they could just adjust it so that enemies would hit for around 150.

Like yeah, you could say "Oh it would mess the narrative if they did it that way", but I find it wouldn't really leave that much of an impact because if you think about it, Sora is roughly the same between kh3 and kh2, with the former having access to flow motion abilities. They could just say that Sora losing his powers in DDD only applies to his losing abilities, summons, equipment, and magic, but doesn't extend his stats hence why he could still perform superhuman feats in cutscene.

Just because games like the Metroid series have the player lose Samus' abilities every game doesn't mean that all games have to follow the trend and force players to start at level one over and over again with each installment. There ARE some exceptions.

Take for example, the Dot Hack series. In the first game you started out at level 1, but if you started a new game in the second and third, you'd be at levels 50 and 100 respectively because those were the max levels the players could reach in each of the previous game.

 

[vaderskywalker]

counter argument,

but what's to stop them from just scaling enemies to be on stronger than Sora? Like if you start the game at level 50, would it not be reasonable that they could change all enemies to be at level 50 as well? If Sora has an HP of 600, they could just adjust it so that enemies would hit for around 150.

Like yeah, you could say "Oh it would mess the narrative if they did it that way", but I find it wouldn't really leave that much of an impact because if you think about it, Sora is roughly the same between kh3 and kh2, with the former having access to flow motion abilities. They could just say that Sora losing his powers in DDD only applies to his losing abilities, summons, equipment, and magic, but doesn't extend his stats hence why he could still perform superhuman feats in cutscene.

Just because games like the Metroid series have the player lose Samus' abilities every game doesn't mean that all games have to follow the trend and force players to start at level one over and over again with each installment. There ARE some exceptions.

Take for example, the Dot Hack series. In the first game you started out at level 1, but if you started a new game in the second and third, you'd be at levels 50 and 100 respectively because those were the max levels the players could reach in each of the previous game.

Agreed.