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Heartless + Nobody = Unholy New Enemy?



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Grey

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I've wondered about this for a while.

Heartless are lost hearts in darkness, and Nobodies are lost bodies without hearts, with souls corrupted by darkness. There's always been a lot of talk about a "third" (fourth if you want to count Unversed) enemy being a manifestation of a lost soul, but what if, instead of breaking it down further, things were combined?

When the Organization was all about finding hearts for themselves, it got me thinking. What if they had received hearts that didn't match up with their bodies? That wouldn't accomplish their goals in the way they wanted, I would think. Plus, is it even possible for a heart to naturally fill a body that it didn't belong to originally?

So... what would happen if a heart was forced into a body?

From this question, I began thinking about the Heartless and Nobodies again. What would happen, in the event of a (forced) union between a Heartless, a lost heart, and a mis-matched Nobody, a lost body? Would it assume a new "somebody?" I think not--I think it could very well simply become a new type of dark being, a Heartless and a Nobody, Heart A and Body B, locked together in an unholy combination. They would essentially be complete beings, but they would not resemble living beings because the heart and body would not match. As if the heart was a special type of cap, and the body was a bottle: the entire apparatus would constitute a closed bottle, but they wouldn't match and would never find harmony.

What if Nomura decided this would be the new enemy for KH3? How would you all feel about that? Would you like the idea? Does it make any sense?

Also, what would these new enemies be called? The names of the enemy creatures have thus far been ironic--Heartless are beings that indeed have hearts, and Nobodies are beings that indeed have bodies.
 

Jadentheman

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Why create yet another enemy in the kingdom hearts universe. I think we had enough. Already up to 4 enemies.
 

Crazy Mario

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I've actually thought of this a bit and I think that this would be interesting if it comes true. The only name I could imagine would be the Involuntary which means without choice and not subject to control of the will. It would represent how forced this procedure is and how it defies many standards.
 

JTD95

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If the Nobodies had gotten hearts which wasn't theirs then they would either still be the same just with a heart or, the heart would now be in charge of the body and soul.

Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) was just a heart corrupted by darkness. Once he had obtained Riku's body and soul he was a complete being again, a somebody you might call it. But he hadn't changed, he still acted like Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness and not Xehanort despite being a complete being.
 

Crazy Mario

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If the Nobodies had gotten hearts which wasn't theirs then they would either still be the same just with a heart or, the heart would now be in charge of the body and soul.

Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) was just a heart corrupted by darkness. Once he had obtained Riku's body and soul he was a complete being again, a somebody you might call it. But he hadn't changed, he still acted like Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness and not Xehanort despite being a complete being.
But you see, both RIku and Ansem's hearts were inside. Were talking about a heart already turned into a Heartless with some random heart going into a Nobody without it's heart. That's a whole different situation.
 

Sephiroth0812

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But you see, both RIku and Ansem's hearts were inside. Were talking about a heart already turned into a Heartless with some random heart going into a Nobody without it's heart. That's a whole different situation.

It would be actually the true goal of the Organization realized.
They wanted a heart inside their body with all benefits and to be complete, but control that heart.

The heart "not belonging" with the nobody would essentially be enslaved by the nobody. Making the nobody a new, complete existence with the original sense of self inside the heart subdued by the stronger will of the nobody.

If we want to nitpick, we already have a being that fits this A=>B composition in the series: Roxas.
He had Sora's body and soul and Ven's (albeit injured) heart.
 

Crazy Mario

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It would be actually the true goal of the Organization realized.
They wanted a heart inside their body with all benefits and to be complete, but control that heart.

The heart "not belonging" with the nobody would essentially be enslaved by the nobody. Making the nobody a new, complete existence with the original sense of self inside the heart subdued by the stronger will of the nobody.

If we want to nitpick, we already have a being that fits this A=>B composition in the series: Roxas.
He had Sora's body and soul and Ven's (albeit injured) heart.
But one thing that Roxas didn't have was a heart consumed by darkness into a Heartless. He just got a normal heart which made him identical to Ventus. If an Emblem Heartless' looks are as horrible as the amount of darkness in the heart combined with the empty vessel of a Nobody, imagine the results.
 

Sephiroth0812

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But one thing that Roxas didn't have was a heart consumed by darkness into a Heartless. He just got a normal heart which made him identical to Ventus. If an Emblem Heartless' looks are as horrible as the amount of darkness in the heart combined with the empty vessel of a Nobody, imagine the results.

A heart consumed by darkness cannot be placed anywhere because it can't function.

As far as I understand the OP we go by the premise of putting a heart into a body that isn't the body it belongs to, which was the Organization's true goal.
They didn't want their own, old hearts back. They did want to become whole existences, not become their former somebodies.

You can't just stuff a nobody and a heartless together because in order for the heart to function as a heart the heartless must be destroyed first and the heart purified.
 

Shinra

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A heart consumed by darkness cannot be placed anywhere because it can't function.

As far as I understand the OP we go by the premise of putting a heart into a body that isn't the body it belongs to, which was the Organization's true goal.
They didn't want their own, old hearts back. They did want to become whole existences, not become their former somebodies.

You can't just stuff a nobody and a heartless together because in order for the heart to function as a heart the heartless must be destroyed first and the heart purified.

that last statement is agreeable... but who's to say they didn't want to become their old selves? I mean sure Xemnas probably had the intention of become a whole existance, but the 'whole existance would result in becoming this so-called new being, or result in Xehanort, Terranort or even Terra for that matter
 

Crazy Mario

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A heart consumed by darkness cannot be placed anywhere because it can't function.

As far as I understand the OP we go by the premise of putting a heart into a body that isn't the body it belongs to, which was the Organization's true goal.
They didn't want their own, old hearts back. They did want to become whole existences, not become their former somebodies.

You can't just stuff a nobody and a heartless together because in order for the heart to function as a heart the heartless must be destroyed first and the heart purified.
But this is exactly what I'm talking about. It would cause irregularity in the fusion and make it an abomination beyond hope of salvation. The host wouldn't even be able to control it's actions. The darkness emanating from the heart would consume the body and transform it into something all-new and dangerous. This is exactly why I suggested this.
 

Nayru's Love

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But this is exactly what I'm talking about. It would cause irregularity in the fusion and make it an abomination beyond hope of salvation. The host wouldn't even be able to control it's actions. The darkness emanating from the heart would consume the body and transform it into something all-new and dangerous. This is exactly why I suggested this.

If a Heartless is defeated, then the darkness within the heart doesn't consume anything. The whole point of defeating a Heartless is to get the darkness to release its grip on the heart.

The closest thing I can relate to your idea would be Anti-Sora.

Heartless are lost hearts in darkness, and Nobodies are lost bodies without hearts, with souls corrupted by darkness.
Souls corrupted by darkness? Never heard of that.

There's always been a lot of talk about a "third" (fourth if you want to count Unversed) enemy being a manifestation of a lost soul, but what if, instead of breaking it down further, things were combined?
Already confirmed by both Secret Reports XIII and Re:Coded's secret ending.

When the Organization was all about finding hearts for themselves, it got me thinking. What if they had received hearts that didn't match up with their bodies? That wouldn't accomplish their goals in the way they wanted, I would think. Plus, is it even possible for a heart to naturally fill a body that it didn't belong to originally?
Yeah, Xehanort's Heartless in Riku's body is a prime example.

So... what would happen if a heart was forced into a body?
...BBS much?

From this question, I began thinking about the Heartless and Nobodies again. What would happen, in the event of a (forced) union between a Heartless, a lost heart, and a mis-matched Nobody, a lost body? Would it assume a new "somebody?" I think not--I think it could very well simply become a new type of dark being, a Heartless and a Nobody, Heart A and Body B, locked together in an unholy combination. They would essentially be complete beings, but they would not resemble living beings because the heart and body would not match. As if the heart was a special type of cap, and the body was a bottle: the entire apparatus would constitute a closed bottle, but they wouldn't match and would never find harmony.
As already stated, you can't combine a (normal) Heartless with any body. A Heartless is in that state because it rejected its body in the first place.
 

Crazy Mario

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If a Heartless is defeated, then the darkness within the heart doesn't consume anything. The whole point of defeating a Heartless is to get the darkness to release its grip on the heart.

The closest thing I can relate to your idea would be Anti-Sora.
Okay, let me sum up what I'm trying to say. Were talking about a Nobody with no heart. And then we have a Heartless with someone else's heart. Hearts can change the appearance of each host. Also, this heart has already been taken over by darkness and isn't starting to sprout it inside the host, which was the result of Anti-Sora. You take that and put it into an empty vessel. And what do you know, you've got a being that looks like a deformed hybrid of two people while spewing darkness everywhere and having Heartless-like qualities of the type that's inside. Also, you're missing my point, the host DOESN'T have a griffon it's heart, the darkness does. Which will likely make it act like a savage and go on a rampage just like a mindless Heartless.
 

Nayru's Love

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Also, this heart has already been taken over by darkness and isn't starting to sprout it inside the host, which was the result of Anti-Sora.
You could argue that Anti-Sora is the result of darkness momentarily taking over Sora's heart.

You take that and put it into an empty vessel. And what do you know, you've got a being that looks like a deformed hybrid of two people while spewing darkness everywhere and having Heartless-like qualities of the type that's inside.
Which is exactly what Anti-Sora is. He has the dark, primitive nature of the Heartless and the humanoid body of a Nobody.

Also, you're missing my point, the host DOESN'T have a griffon it's heart, the darkness does. Which will likely make it act like a savage and go on a rampage just like a mindless Heartless.
If we're still talking about defeated Heartless, then no, the heart isn't being controlled by darkness. I feel like we're on two different pages, though.
 

Crazy Mario

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You could argue that Anti-Sora is the result of darkness momentarily taking over Sora's heart.

Which is exactly what Anti-Sora is. He has the dark, primitive nature of the Heartless and the humanoid body of a Nobody.

If we're still talking about defeated Heartless, then no, the heart isn't being controlled by darkness. I feel like we're on two different pages, though.
Wait, hold on a minute. Are you talking about DEFEATED Heartless? I'm talking live Heartless being forcible moved into an empty vessel like a Nobody.

Also, you're right about the first reply, but you still miss the point of my second. That's still Sora's heart being turned to darkness and the heart isn't already a Heartless, he transformed into one. I'm talking about a live Heartless that has already fully matured and is put into an empty vessel. Normally, having your heart be consumed by darkness causes your body to fade away and your heart makes you look like the type of Heartless that defines the amount in your heart. But in this case, were talking about a Heartless that has already completed the process and rejected the body. If we put that into a Nobody along with a heart that isn't his/hers, it would cause the body's appearance to become a hybrid of itself mixed with the heart's original host along with actually keeping the darkness-engulfed heart in a vessel which will add specific features of the type of Heartless to the body as well. This mixture would likely cause horrid results to the point that we couldn't comprehend it's appearance at our current state of KH knowledge.
 

Vani

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Okay, let me sum up what I'm trying to say. Were talking about a Nobody with no heart. And then we have a Heartless with someone else's heart. Hearts can change the appearance of each host. Also, this heart has already been taken over by darkness and isn't starting to sprout it inside the host, which was the result of Anti-Sora. You take that and put it into an empty vessel.
That's the thing though. A heart taken by darkness is nonfunctional. When a heart is taken over by darkness it parts from the body for a reason. If a corrupted heart can function in an empty vessel, then why would that vessel become empty in the first place?

You can't just combine a Heartless and Nobody. If that was the case then the Organization would've had no need for Sora to go around purifying hearts with the keyblade to make Kingdom Hearts.
 

Nayru's Love

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Wait, hold on a minute. Are you talking about DEFEATED Heartless? I'm talking live Heartless being forcible moved into an empty vessel like a Nobody.

Also, you're right about the first reply, but you still miss the point of my second. That's still Sora's heart being turned to darkness and the heart isn't already a Heartless, he transformed into one. I'm talking about a live Heartless that has already fully matured and is put into an empty vessel. Normally, having your heart be consumed by darkness causes your body to fade away and your heart makes you look like the type of Heartless that defines the amount in your heart. But in this case, were talking about a Heartless that has already completed the process and rejected the body. If we put that into a Nobody along with a heart that isn't his/hers, it would cause the body's appearance to become a hybrid of itself mixed with the heart's original host along with actually keeping the darkness-engulfed heart in a vessel which will add specific features of the type of Heartless to the body as well. This mixture would likely cause horrid results to the point that we couldn't comprehend it's appearance at our current state of KH knowledge.

That's pretty much going into unnecessary speculation over something that isn't logically possible under normal circumstances. If what you're looking for is a Heartless/Nobody hybrid, you may as well just look at Anti-Sora, who's a hybrid between those two in both appearance and nature.
 

Crazy Mario

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That's the thing though. A heart taken by darkness is nonfunctional. When a heart is taken over by darkness it parts from the body for a reason. If a corrupted heart can function in an empty vessel, then why would that vessel become empty in the first place?

You can't just combine a Heartless and Nobody. If that was the case then the Organization would've had no need for Sora to go around purifying hearts with the keyblade to make Kingdom Hearts.
That's because when the darkness forms, it overflows and rejects the body during it's DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. I'm talking about a fully-matured Heartless that has already grown and taken form. Also, they didn't just stick a Heartless in their because a Heartless' darkness prevents control and makes you act like a savage. I've has to repeat this a million times, this is the intent! The new creation will be beyond the host's control and act as savage as a Heartless without feeling emotion while looking like a deformed hybrid of two deformed people.

That's pretty much going into unnecessary speculation over something that isn't logically possible under normal circumstances. If what you're looking for is a Heartless/Nobody hybrid, you may as well just look at Anti-Sora, who's a hybrid between those two in both appearance and nature.
We don't know that. It's just that nobody tried it yet. All you need is a little science expertise like Ansem and perform experiments and it's possible. And I keep telling you, Anti-Sora is not a Heartless/Nobody hybrid. It's a transformation into a Heartless while regaining only your own heart and the darkness starts to sprout inside and hasn't matured already from an outside force. I keep trying to explain this, but you keep missing the whole point.
 

Nayru's Love

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That's because when the darkness forms, it overflows and rejects the body during it's DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. I'm talking about a fully-matured Heartless that has already grown and taken form.
If a Heartless rejects a body during its birth, there's really nothing that suggests that it will accept another body as a Heartless.

The new creation will be beyond the host's control and act as savage as a Heartless without feeling emotion while looking like a deformed hybrid of two deformed people.
Just to clarify, it would only have the appearance of the owner of the heart. There's no hybrid look.

We don't know that. It's just that nobody tried it yet. All you need is a little science expertise like Ansem and perform experiments and it's possible.
No really, it is logically impossible.

And I keep telling you, Anti-Sora is not a Heartless/Nobody hybrid. It's a transformation into a Heartless while regaining only your own heart and the darkness starts to sprout inside and hasn't matured already from an outside force. I keep trying to explain this, but you keep missing the whole point.

That's your own speculative viewpoint. From what we can observe, Anti-Sora has aforementioned traits from both enemies. No reason to say he isn't a hybrid.
 

Vani

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That's because when the darkness forms, it overflows and rejects the body during it's DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. I'm talking about a fully-matured Heartless that has already grown and taken form. Also, they didn't just stick a Heartless in their because a Heartless' darkness prevents control and makes you act like a savage. I've has to repeat this a million times, this is the intent! The new creation will be beyond the host's control and act as savage as a Heartless without feeling emotion while looking like a deformed hybrid of two deformed people.
Since when do Heartless grow and mature? Look at that one guy in Traverse Town. The moment his heart was overcome by darkness he became a Soldier Heartless. Same goes with Sora becoming a shadow.
Also, your idea sounds a bit too fanfic-y. You're assuming the hybrid would be an emotionless heartless but what if it was a brainless nobody?
 

Crazy Mario

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If a Heartless rejects a body during its birth, there's really nothing that suggests that it will accept another body as a Heartless.

Just to clarify, it would only have the appearance of the owner of the heart. There's no hybrid look.


No really, it is logically impossible.



That's your own speculative viewpoint. From what we can observe, Anti-Sora has aforementioned traits from both enemies. No reason to say he isn't a hybrid.
Firstly, there's no proof supporting that it can't either so I'm free to voice my prediction.

Second, it's a hybrid look because we have a body with an established appearance and a heart from another person. Roxas looks different due to receiving Ventus' heart during his birth. If a heart is added when the Nobody is already formed, it will likely make a hybrid appearance.

Third, I admit this is speculation, but there is no sure statement that states it's logically impossible so you can stop throwing that excuse around. It's just that nobody tried yet.

Fourth, if that is your own opinion, then I can respect that. But I still have the full right to stand by mine since you have no definite proof.

Since when do Heartless grow and mature? Look at that one guy in Traverse Town. The moment his heart was overcome by darkness he became a Soldier Heartless. Same goes with Sora becoming a shadow.
Also, your idea sounds a bit too fanfic-y. You're assuming the hybrid would be an emotionless heartless but what if it was a brainless nobody?
You keep missing the point. It ACTS like an emotionless Heartless because your heart contains your emotions, which at this point is full of anger and rage due to the darkness. Also, here's the development cycle. A Heartless attacks you and fills your heart with darkness. Then, your heart rejects your body during that transformation and when it's free, it fully develops into a Heartless like that Soldier you mentioned. This is the late stage that I was talking about where you put it into a body once it's already fully grown. This isn't some fan-fiction, I'm just combining established canon into a new being that I have proof to support on any grounds you're against.
 
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