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Keyblade Hand-off Theory: Roxas' Keyblades



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Key of Valor

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Rain said:
Oh and you're forgetting that while Riku and Kairi are fighting using those Keyblades, it's very much possible for Sora to Duel Wield while he's fighting his way to get to them. Where would those lovely Keyblades come from, hm?

Ha, I shouldn't have expected any less from you.
If you believe I forgot that though, you are mistaken.
I was under the impression that you believed that
one Keyblade could magically turn into two Keyblades.
No wait, I believe it's phrased as 'the Keyblade splits
into two Keyblades'. Might that satisfy your question?
In this theory, I never claimed that concept of dual
wielding to be messed up or illogical, now did I?

I suppose if I wanted to argue against that concept
of dual wielding though, I could say that you don't
multiply by dividing, but I care not for arguing against
such a concept that serves to provide answers to
this theory of mine.
 
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A single Keyblade separates into two while held by the same person, if you wanna go with that. It splitting into two separate Keyblade pieces that went to two separate people?
:v yeah, logic lacking much. Even before I mention that I don't swing with the "The Keyblades split in two" issue, which again - would only work for the person holding the Keyblade to begin with.
Only if that's how you explain Duel Wielding to begin with, why would they need Xion's Keyblade? They can split their own.
 

Key of Valor

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Rain said:
A single Keyblade separates into two while held by the same person, if you wanna go with that. It splitting into two separate Keyblade pieces that went to two separate people?
:v yeah, logic lacking much. Even before I mention that I don't swing with the "The Keyblades split in two" issue, which again - would only work for the person holding the Keyblade to begin with.
Only if that's how you explain Duel Wielding to begin with, why would they need Xion's Keyblade? They can split their own.

I won't lie, I don't fully understand your post. I must be too tired or something.

I'll just try my best to understand in my reply and you can let me know where I went wrong.

What I'm saying is that Roxas' Keyblades went to Riku,
and the generally accept idea of a dual wielding (about
the Keyblade splitting and all) could serve as an explanation
of how Sora was able to dual wield while Riku had Roxas'
Keyblades. According to the concept, Sora's Keyblade
could potentially split into two Keyblades.

Now, your question was why would I write up this theory
if I believed Keyblades could just split... well I have my
own reasons, but it's in part to suggest primarily, all dual
wielding excluded, that Roxas is responsible for Riku's
acquiring for the Keyblade.

Now I'm one who will theorize in the form of 'symmetry'
and the reason I think it would work to suggest that
Roxas is responsible for Riku Keyblade is in part because
Terra might be responsible for Sora's Keyblade. It's
sort an opposite yet parallel scenario of Keyblade
passing from Terra to Sora and from Roxas(looks like
Ven) to Riku. Again, I theorize in a form of symmetry
and it does get repetitive claiming connections, similarities,
contrasting differences, and parallel situations. I means,
look at my sig, I'm one to believe that Roxas and Ansem SoD
essentially almost the same yet different in key ways.

My annoying thought process aside, my theory is
made only to get across certain main points.

I'm personally opposed to the idea of Roxas and Riku dual wielding using
one Keyblade (splitting into two). I think the Oblivion and the Oatherkeeper
are seperate Keyblades from each other, and the same goes for the Way
to Dawn and *flowerpower. However, for those who believe in the dual
wielding concept, that these Keyblades are 'split' from each other, then
that doesn't really effect the points I want to get across and still works
with the theory in a way.

I suppose the points I want to get across is:
Xion's Keyblade went to Roxas, Roxas was involved
in Riku getting his Keyblade.

However there are some other lesser but still important
points I wanted to make, plus some explaining is necessary
to express my points as best I can.

My theory is not as specific as it could be, I feel it
doesn't need to go too far in depth for my views
to be given a fair amount of consideration.

Anyway, I recall now that you believe the influences of Ven to
Sora and Xehanort to Riku allow them to dual wield, and if I
didn't believe that Xion gives Roxas his second Keyblade, I
might be inclined to agree with you. Roxas giving Riku and
Kairi is Keyblades though was my first theory as a fan of the
series, so you might see how I might prefer to cling to that
belief. Heck, I even believed that Number XIV gave Roxas
a Keyblade before her weapon or name was even revealed,
so that too is a belief I'll cling to.
 

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:v I see.
Unbased fanfic theory then where Keyblades get split into gazillion copies and get handed out all over the place. Can I get one too?
Now I can finally leave this thread alone, once I remind you that with Xion probably getting her Keyblade from Roxas to begin with, she didn't so much give him a Keyblade as much as kept him from using something that was his from the get go.
 

Key of Valor

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Ah, now you're the one misunderstanding.
I do not support the idea of Keyblades splitting.
I have never been a fan of that concept.
So as I said before, dividing does not multiply.

Anyway, it is my belief as well that Xion
received her Keyblade from Roxas. I make
a point in my theory of mentioning that
briefly without being too specific. mentioning
where Xion got her Keyblade from was not
essentially to this theory (though it is essential
to my Xion theory).

Regardless, even if Xion did get her Keyblade
from Roxas (as I believe) she still gave the
Keyblade back to him... in some sense. I mean,
she either handed it to him, or she died and then
the Keyblade transferred to him.Honestly, I
don't care which. My point again, at one
point, under whatever circumstances, a
Keblade passed from Xion to Roxas.

I almost feel like giving you a rep for insulting
the dual wielding concept... almost.
 

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His own Keyblade :[ and I still don't see what you're basing Roxas giving Riku his own Keyblade on. I understand you've a soft spot for that theory, but it's all but baseless. Riku's been able to Wield to certain extents from the get go, hence how the Soul Eater is not only explainable, but so is its transformation into the WtD. What would Roxas have to do with it?

I almost feel like giving you a rep for insulting
the dual wielding concept... almost.

I'm not the one that suggests that one Keyblade is the explanation for every other Keyblade in the game, hun.
 
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Key of Valor

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It's not necessarily baseless, you've just dismissed its support.
Nothing wrong with dismissing its support. You shouldn't call it baseless though.

The Soul Eater though is not a Keyblade.
I know you believe in the concept of something
coming from nothing...(actually, it surprises me that
you actually don't agree with the splitting Keyblade
dual wielding concept then) Thing is though, the
Soul Eater is not the Keyblade by itself, yet it
transformed into a Keyblade. If the composition
of a Keyblade was not there to begin with,
it would need to acquire necessary components
from somewhere else to become a Keyblade.

Thus, Roxas' Keyblades are added to the
equation.
 

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And how would Roxas's Keyblades have gotten To Riku? While Sora was still using them? This is what I call baseless. This isn't support, it's you throwing conjecture up to the air. This is you suggesting the Keyblades just split all over the place.
Quote where you said otherwise if you did, by all means.

I don't say something came from nothing. The ability was there, and Riku's Heart becoming strong enough provided the base on which the Keyblade materialized. You can't deny the Soul Eater had to come from somewhere, and with Riku being the only one to use that weapon (with XH later on arguably tapping onto that ability) you can't really say it's unrelated to him being a Wielder at all - especially not with the Keychain hole the Soul Eater has.
 

Key of Valor

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Rain said:
And how would Roxas's Keyblades have gotten To Riku? While Sora was still using them? This is what I call baseless. This isn't support, it's you throwing conjecture up to the air. This is you suggesting the Keyblades just split all over the place.
Quote where you said otherwise if you did, by all means.

I don't say something came from nothing. The ability was there, and Riku's Heart becoming strong enough provided the base on which the Keyblade materialized. You can't deny the Soul Eater had to come from somewhere, and with Riku being the only one to use that weapon (with XH later on arguably tapping onto that ability) you can't really say it's unrelated to him being a Wielder at all - especially not with the Keychain hole the Soul Eater has.

Again though, and I would like to emphasize this:
I don't believe Keyblades split when dual wielding.

And no, I don't think Sora's ability to dual wielding
involves Roxas' Keyblades.

My clever wording is always done with a purpose.

On another thread, you might recall me saying that:
'at one time I believe Sora had at least three Keyblades
attached to him'

Well there was a purpose in that too. It's pointless
to discuss it, but 'at least three' does not necessarily
mean 'three'.

About the Soul Eater, I believe it is the materialization
of Riku's ability to wield that takes shape as a weapon
because he Keyblade of his own. To be fair, I do think
hearts could create existence, so the Soul Eater
becoming the Way to Dawn is possible... but I don't
believe it's the case, if only for the reason that if
I thought Riku could just 'create' a Keyblade, then
that would kind of, I guess, make Keyblades less
significant. I don't think people could just 'create'
Keyblades, their source should be more significant
in my opinion. Plus, Sora should have just made his
own Keyblade if his heart was so qualified, instead
of fighting with Riku over the Keyblade's favor.
 

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And no, I don't think Sora's ability to dual wielding
involves Roxas' Keyblades.

...then how would you explain Sora's Duel Wielding? o_O and so help me if you write it off with the Drive Forms.

My clever wording is always done with a purpose.

I'd suggest you stopped using it for all's sake.

Well there was a purpose in that too. It's pointless
to discuss it, but 'at least three' does not necessarily
mean 'three'.

...do you even read your own posts at times?

but I don't believe it's the case, if only for the reason that if
I thought Riku could just 'create' a Keyblade, then
that would kind of, I guess, make Keyblades less
significant.

You're forgetting he was chosen for one though. How would that have ended up with him if it wasn't just 'created'? Keyblades materialize for a strong Heart. That's how it works. They depend on the strong Hearts, they're not really materializations of the realms or anything like that.
As many Keyblades as there are qualified Hearts. That's how it works.

Plus, Sora should have just made his
own Keyblade if his heart was so qualified, instead
of fighting with Riku over the Keyblade's favor.

Now who's underestimating things? Keyblades don't just pop up like you portray them to. And to be fair, Sora wasn't truly qualified until Hollow Bastion, at which point he was already affiliated with the KK, so your point is redundant.
Riku was the one that had to work hard to get a Keyblade of his own once the KK chose Sora - and lo and behold, he did.
 

Key of Valor

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Rain said:
...then how would you explain Sora's Duel Wielding? o_O and so help me if you write it off with the Drive Forms.

I do have a personal explanation of mine
to explain Sora's dual wielding, and I don't
just write it off as game mechanics...

It's a meaningless detail though, not
worth discussing but its possible and
it's important to acknowledge that.
(four keyblades)

Rain said:
You're forgetting he was chosen for one though. How would that have ended up with him if it wasn't just 'created'? Keyblades materialize for a strong Heart. That's how it works. They depend on the strong Hearts, they're not really materializations of the realms or anything like that.
As many Keyblades as there are qualified Hearts. That's how it works.

There are as many Keyblades as there are qualified hearts, but
how are these Keyblades created? We can't say for sure. Thing is,
I'm uncomfortable with the idea of someone getting the Keyblade
because they were chosen, and someone getting the Keyblade
because he made it. (And now you know why I don't like it...
in part because it's not symmetrical)

Rain said:
Now who's underestimating things? Keyblades don't just pop up like you portray them to. And to be fair, Sora wasn't truly qualified until Hollow Bastion, at which point he was already affiliated with the KK, so your point is redundant.
Riku was the one that had to work hard to get a Keyblade of his own once the KK chose Sora - and lo and behold, he did.

Actually, I'm not saying Keyblades just pop up.
I'm saying the opposite, I'm saying they're passed
down and stuff. Someone or something made them,
but I don't think it was Sora, Riku, or Roxas.

Why didn't Sora just make his own Keyblade then,
if Riku could, shouldn't Sora had too.
 

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See, that's why I can't take this theory seriously. Because you don't explain things :\
"yeah, Riku, Roxas and Kairi all have their Keyblades from location A but there's a Keyblade I have an explanation for but that explanation isn't important".
But it is, sweetie, it is. And it has to add up with everything else you're spewing here.
And you still didn't explain where Riku'd get Roxas's Keyblades from. Nor how Sora would Duel Wield.
And you're ignoring the Soul Eater still being present and a constant proof of Riku's own Wielding Ability. So it's not like a Keyblade really came out of nowhere.

Riku was still chosen for the Keyblade. He had the Wielding ability from the get-go. In a sense, Sora was a lot more the one that snatched it without a truly proper explanation, seeing how it was originally Riku's Keyblade. Riku just recovered from the blow and used what was already there, even if the materialized form of it wasn't the KK.
The thing is, symmetry means nothing. You might prefer it like that, but it holds no real value, least of all in KH.
 
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Sa?x

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I've gotta go with Rain. Your theory doesn't string together well. Besides that, it's got more passes than a soccer game, and that's just stupid.

Roxas: DW's probably because of either Ven or Xion.
Sora: DW's because of Roxas/fighting with his friends.
Kairi: Her gloried dildo of a bouquet of a keyblade is handed to her by a Keyblade master. Thus, Riku is maintaining it, not her.

Clear things up?
 

Flowmotion

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I've gotta go with Rain. Your theory doesn't string together well. Besides that, it's got more passes than a soccer game, and that's just stupid.

Roxas: DW's probably because of either Ven or Xion.
Sora: DW's because of Roxas/fighting with his friends.
Kairi: Her gloried dildo of a bouquet of a keyblade is handed to her by a Keyblade master. Thus, Riku is maintaining it, not her.

Clear things up?

Sora's Dual wielding may just as well been given to him by his outfit alone, which the fairies made for him, since he never truly dual wielded without them, unless you count the near end of the Xemnas battle, but I don't think that has any significance though.

Also, the fact that Roxas has both his keyblades in the Sora vs Roxas fight in TWTNW means that he probably vanished along with the keyblades, though I don't remember where Oblivion is obtained, but I'm quite sure he took Oathkeeper with him.
 

Grey

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Sora's Dual wielding may just as well been given to him by his outfit alone, which the fairies made for him, since he never truly dual wielded without them, unless you count the near end of the Xemnas battle, but I don't think that has any significance though.

Also, the fact that Roxas has both his keyblades in the Sora vs Roxas fight in TWTNW means that he probably vanished along with the keyblades, though I don't remember where Oblivion is obtained, but I'm quite sure he took Oathkeeper with him.

Nomura said that Sora being able to dual-wield has a lot of significance, so I don't think that "he has two Keyblades because of his clothing" is a proper explanation.


As for the Sora-uses-the-Way-to-the-Dawn-against-Xemnas thing: we've seen Keybladers hand off the Keyblade they are using to other people before. Roxas handed Riku the Oblivion at Memory Skyscraper, Riku handed Kairi a Destiny-Islands themed Keyblade during the Heartless invasion at TWTNW, and Riku handed Sora his WttD Keyblade during his final battle against Xemnas.

However, in the first two cases, the one who received the Keyblade could not wield at that point in time, so it's explained that the wielder (Roxas in the first case, and Riku in the second) simply sustained the Keyblade for the receiver; that is, the receiver could wield because the wielder willed them to.

It's believed that this is the case for Sora's fight against Xemnas. Riku physically handed off the Keyblade to Sora, just like in the first two cases. Therefore, this isn't an indication that Sora dual-wielded in his fight against Xemnas, just that Riku willed Sora to use his Keybade momentarily.


As for the Roxas-stealing-Keyblades part:
I think that Roxas has "copies" (for lack of a better term) of Sora's Oathkeeper and Oblivion Keychains (as well as the Kingdom Keychain) because he's Sora's Nobody. I don't think it worked out where Roxas stole the Oathkeeper and Oblivion from Sora to use. I think that the Oathkeeper represents memory of Kairi, the Oblivion represents memory of Riku, and the Kingdom Key represents memory of Sora; therefore, Roxas can use those three Keyblades due to him being Sora's Nobody. He didn't steal those three Keyblades, he copied them from Sora's memory.




EDIT: (A little side-note I noticed when thinking about the Keychains=Memories thing)

Notice in the opening sequence of KH2 (while Passion/Sanctuary is playing), Sora is laying on the beach with Kairi to his left and Riku to his right. The three are holding hands--Kairi in Sora's left, Riku in Sora's right. Immediately afterward, Roxas sort of "falls through" the trio, where he lands in one of the Dive to the Heart's Stations.

Now, notice what hand Roxas holds the Oathkeeper in, and notice what hand Roxas holds the Oblivion in.

See any similarities?
Whether or not it's significant, I have no clue.
 
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Sora's Dual wielding may just as well been given to him by his outfit alone, which the fairies made for him, since he never truly dual wielded without them, unless you count the near end of the Xemnas battle, but I don't think that has any significance though.

Like Grey said, Duel Wielding was confirmed to have great significance.
Hence why I also fail to see why people would write off Riku Duel Wielding as Kairi magically getting a Keyblade, and that Riku was somehow the one that summoned it for her. :\ I mean, if she was to get her own Keyblade, why not, just, ya know - make a Wielder out of her? They had remote basis what with Namine, a Nobody born of Sora, having returned to Kairi. But no, they didn't. Riku gave her a Keyblade. Hence, he's the source for it.
 

Key of Valor

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Rain said:
See, that's why I can't take this theory seriously. Because you don't explain things :\
"yeah, Riku, Roxas and Kairi all have their Keyblades from location A but there's a Keyblade I have an explanation for but that explanation isn't important".
But it is, sweetie, it is. And it has to add up with everything else you're spewing here.
And you still didn't explain where Riku'd get Roxas's Keyblades from. Nor how Sora would Duel Wield.
And you're ignoring the Soul Eater still being present and a constant proof of Riku's own Wielding Ability. So it's not like a Keyblade really came out of nowhere.

As we saw in KH2, Roxas was put in contact with Kairi just by meeting Namine.
Roxas has actually met Riku himself, and therefore perhaps he can be put in
contact with Riku as well. Plus Roxas merged with Sora, and there is that whole
'hearts are connected' concept. Through such a bond, Roxas could potnetially
influence the transfer of his Keyblade.

And my theory in its entirety covers the origins and transfers of all the Keyblades
seen in the series thus far, but focusing on only Sora, he obtained on Keyblade
because it was originally supposed to go to Riku but instead went to Sora, then
Sora eventually established Sora as the master of said Keyblades. As for Roxas'
Keyblades, I don't think he possess them because of Sora. I believe Ven by the
end of BBS was attached to three Keyblades of his own, and these three Keyblades
transfered to Roxas. When Roxas merged with Sora, four Keyblades would be
attached to Sora, thus even without two of Roxas' Keyblades, Sora would still
have one Keyblade of his own and one Keyblade from Roxas, still enabling him
to dual wield.

Rain said:
Riku was still chosen for the Keyblade. He had the Wielding ability from the get-go. In a sense, Sora was a lot more the one that snatched it without a truly proper explanation, seeing how it was originally Riku's Keyblade. Riku just recovered from the blow and used what was already there, even if the materialized form of it wasn't the KK.
The thing is, symmetry means nothing. You might prefer it like that, but it holds no real value, least of all in KH.

But why would Riku need to be bestowed a Keyblade from
another source if his heart had the ability to produce a Keyblade
of his own.

Certainly it's possible that Riku forged his own Keyblade, but I
personally don't think creating a Keyblade is so simple.

Xenka said:
I've gotta go with Rain. Your theory doesn't string together well. Besides that, it's got more passes than a soccer game, and that's just stupid.

Roxas: DW's probably because of either Ven or Xion.
Sora: DW's because of Roxas/fighting with his friends.
Kairi: Her gloried dildo of a bouquet of a keyblade is handed to her by a Keyblade master. Thus, Riku is maintaining it, not her.

Clear things up?

If I thought Keyblade were insignificant and could so
easily just appear, I might be more inclined to believe this.

However, I think a lot of Keyblade just being created
sounds more unlikely than just a few Keyblades being
passed around a lot.

Xenka said:
As for the Roxas-stealing-Keyblades part:
I think that Roxas has "copies" (for lack of a better term) of Sora's Oathkeeper and Oblivion Keychains (as well as the Kingdom Keychain) because he's Sora's Nobody. I don't think it worked out where Roxas stole the Oathkeeper and Oblivion from Sora to use. I think that the Oathkeeper represents memory of Kairi, the Oblivion represents memory of Riku, and the Kingdom Key represents memory of Sora; therefore, Roxas can use those three Keyblades due to him being Sora's Nobody. He didn't steal those three Keyblades, he copied them from Sora's memory.

The question though is not where or how the forms of Roxas'
Keyblades came from, it's where the actually Keyblade came from.
Right now the explanation given for Roxas' Keyblades is that
he has them because he is Sora's Nobody, but so what? Sora
wielded one Keyblade in KH1. If Roxas' Keyblades came from
Sora wielding that Keyblade, how would that happen? Would
the Keyblade just split, or would Roxas use his heart to create
his own Keyblades? I suppose both idea are possible but I'm
opposed to both.

Xenka said:
EDIT: (A little side-note I noticed when thinking about the Keychains=Memories thing)

Notice in the opening sequence of KH2 (while Passion/Sanctuary is playing), Sora is laying on the beach with Kairi to his left and Riku to his right. The three are holding hands--Kairi in Sora's left, Riku in Sora's right. Immediately afterward, Roxas sort of "falls through" the trio, where he lands in one of the Dive to the Heart's Stations.

Now, notice what hand Roxas holds the Oathkeeper in, and notice what hand Roxas holds the Oblivion in.

See any similarities?
Whether or not it's significant, I have no clue.

Indeed, KH thrives on symbolism. I think about everyone
has noticed that.

Thanks for bringing this up though, because I wanted to
make a point about that symbolism. (I wasn't going to
bring it up though because symbolism can often be
dismissed as meaningless)

If Sora holding the hands of Riku and Kairi represent
Roxas' Keyblades connected to them, then conversely,
Riku and Kairi holding hands with Sora could mean that
their Keyblades are connected to Roxas.
 

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As we saw in KH2, Roxas was put in contact with Kairi just by meeting Namine.
Roxas has actually met Riku himself, and therefore perhaps he can be put in
contact with Riku as well. Plus Roxas merged with Sora, and there is that whole
'hearts are connected' concept. Through such a bond, Roxas could potnetially
influence the transfer of his Keyblade.

...to just about anyone and everyone through your logic, hence why it fails to support your claims :\

And my theory in its entirety covers the origins and transfers of all the Keyblades
seen in the series thus far, but focusing on only Sora, he obtained on Keyblade
because it was originally supposed to go to Riku but instead went to Sora, then
Sora eventually established Sora as the master of said Keyblades. As for Roxas'
Keyblades, I don't think he possess them because of Sora. I believe Ven by the
end of BBS was attached to three Keyblades of his own, and these three Keyblades
transfered to Roxas. When Roxas merged with Sora, four Keyblades would be
attached to Sora, thus even without two of Roxas' Keyblades, Sora would still
have one Keyblade of his own and one Keyblade from Roxas, still enabling him
to dual wield.

o_O
I'm sticking back to fanfic theory. And just say that no, Sora isn't the source of all Keyblades.
 

Key of Valor

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Rain said:
...to just about anyone and everyone through your logic, hence why it fails to support your claims :\

But there is a motive for Roxas to want Sora's friends to have his Keyblades.

Rain said:
o_O
I'm sticking back to fanfic theory. And just say that no, Sora isn't the source of all Keyblades.

Not the source, Sora is just another link in the chain.
I think it's better than saying that Riku is a source of a Keyblade.
 

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I really fail to see why you're so against letting Riku get his own Keyblade and Duel Wield :\ it's certainly better than throwing Keyblades all over the place over relations that make no sense - because they don't. The only reason Sora managed to get the KK from Riku was because he quite physically and literally reached into his Heart and pulled it out of there. No one else had the chance to do anything of that sort maybe other than Ven in Sora to allow for Keyblade transferal.
 
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