• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

KH III Marluxia's Role Theory (Spoilers)



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
It's the "moto" part that has me questioning the meaning of this scene. Translating it as "has-beens" is kinda clever but it makes it sound like Marluxia is responding to Sora's taunt, whereas in Japanese it sounds to me more like he genuinely doesn't understand what Sora means by "moto." "Zuibun" indicates a level of surprise or consternation, so it sounds like he doesn't "get" that Sora is referring to a past version of a new construct, which makes sense if we read Sora's "Shin (新) Juusan Kikan" as "New Organization Thirteen" and that makes Marluxia's correction to "Shin (秦)" as in "true" more close to the English reading of that term as "singular/only" rather than "accurate/exact." In other words it sounds like Marluxia is saying, "The 'true' Organization, i.e. the only one that has ever existed." It just seems strange to me to highlight this back and forth if they're both talking about the same thing, but maybe it's just a long-winded way for Marluxia to get around to reintroducing himself to Sora and I'm overthinking it lol.

As for the theory, I haven't been following Ux so I dunno much about how Lauriam is involved in the plot of it, but I get the feeling this Marluxia is actually Marluxia and not Lauriam (just a gut feeling, could definitely be wrong). Good thinking drawing on his connection to Ven, though. That does give him relevance beyond either the new or the old Organization and might inform more about his past behavior and what we can expect from him in KH3, so it's definitely worth keeping in mind. If he did actually find the Chamber of Waking, or even figured out what/who was inside of it, that might explain his decision to take over the Organization (and gives added context to positioning himself as the leader of the CO team): if Ven is, say, the key to the rest of the Dandelions, that might be related to Marluxia's ultimate goal, and he might have needed to prevent Xehanort from getting to him. Which might give him reason to assist Sora in KH3, if waking Ven up advances his interests and frustrates MX.

I honestly just saw it as Marluxia being amused rather than surprised. Zuibun also means extremely as well. Also "moto" could mean former. He could also be surprised/amused that Sora still thinks of him from the former Organization since he says in the original dialogue in response to Sora's " Come out former Organization XIII" is "Former? That's a way to put it." Then Sora goes on about how that the Former(Moto) Org. XIII used Nobodies unless he's in the New(Shin) Org. XIII. Then Marluxia goes on to introduce himself as "I'm Marluxia of True(Shin) Org. XIII." If he truly didn't understand what Sora was saying he would have continued to inquire about the "Former/Moto" remark from Sora. I figured he understands what Sora says and used a play on words with him(pun since they're basically saying Shin Juusan Kinkan" but Marluxia sees it as the true Organization because that's what it really is. Young Xehanort said as much. The former Organization wasn't the real deal and Marluxia recognizes this now. But either way I guess we'll have to wait for the game to find out the whole deal. Plus by the slim chance Marluxia wasn't with the group, I don't think Xemnas would allow Marluxia to use his Nobody henchmen for his own schemes that could interfere with Xehanort as Xemnas controls all Nobodies.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
Yeah, we don't really know what Marluxia's been up to.

I have considered a reason MX might want Marluxia on his new Organization despite his traitorous behavior in the past, though-- and it would be to do exactly what he appears to be doing in the trailer. Nudge Sora closer to reviving his memories of Castle Oblivion. Up until now it wasn't clear what Sora did and did not remember, but it's clear from this new trailer that there's a lot (if not the majority) which he doesn't recall. If MX is still aiming to capture Sora as a darkness, the best way to do that is to destabilize his heart: when Namine pieced the chains of Sora's memories back together, not only was the process itself precarious and apparently somewhat volatile, but it ran into all kinds of unexpected complications with the special nature of Roxas's existence, Xion siphoning memories, etc. There are a lot of potential areas of vulnerability or weak links in the chains there for MX to possibly exploit using characters like Marluxia or Larxene, who can reopen that old wound by forcing his memories of Castle Oblivion back out.
I can see that being option. Marluxia may as well just be pawn and not necessarily a seeker. As for if Larxene is going to come back in this game along with some of the other Organization, that's to be seen. I do think Luxord might play a part within the new Organization since his element is time and MX along with the other seekers are heavily involved with time travel. Plus, I think Nomura or one of the KH staff cited Luxord as their favorite character in regards to Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Mission Mode.

I still wish we get a trailer quickly to give more context towards Marluxia and what schemes he is planning and if Larxene plays a part in it since she was Marluxia's co-conspirator. If Larxene were to meet Sora again, she'd probably not be too happy and would do everything in her power to remind Sora of how he manipulated him, slapped Namine around, and broke Repliku. I do believe she would probably have a harder time for MX to manipulate since in the novels, she never actually wanted her heart back since it was too painful. I do believe it was cited in the novels. So, the questions would be.

Why would Larxene let herself be used by the new Organization if she never wanted to have her heart back? What does she get from Xehanort by torturing Sora?
 

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
I can see that being option. Marluxia may as well just be pawn and not necessarily a seeker. As for if Larxene is going to come back in this game along with some of the other Organization, that's to be seen. I do think Luxord might play a part within the new Organization since his element is time and MX along with the other seekers are heavily involved with time travel. Plus, I think Nomura or one of the KH staff cited Luxord as their favorite character in regards to Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Mission Mode.

I still wish we get a trailer quickly to give more context towards Marluxia and what schemes he is planning and if Larxene plays a part in it since she was Marluxia's co-conspirator. If Larxene were to meet Sora again, she'd probably not be too happy and would do everything in her power to remind Sora of how he manipulated him, slapped Namine around, and broke Repliku. I do believe she would probably have a harder time for MX to manipulate since in the novels, she never actually wanted her heart back since it was too painful. I do believe it was cited in the novels. So, the questions would be.

Why would Larxene let herself be used by the new Organization if she never wanted to have her heart back? What does she get from Xehanort by torturing Sora?

Marluxia and possibly Larxene could be serving Xehanort simply for more power like Braig. Marluxia wanted the power of a Keyblade and Xehanort could offer that to him like me did to Braig which is why he's with the True Organization XIII now. Larxene could join under similar conditions. Who knows.

Also be careful on using novels as canon. At best they're secondary canon.
 

alexis.anagram

pajamaモード
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
2,450
Awards
6
Age
31
Location
somewhere near Marseille
I honestly just saw it as Marluxia being amused rather than surprised. Zuibun also means extremely as well. Also "moto" could mean former. He could also be surprised/amused that Sora still thinks of him from the former Organization since he says in the original dialogue in response to Sora's " Come out former Organization XIII" is "Former? That's a way to put it." Then Sora goes on about how that the Former(Moto) Org. XIII used Nobodies unless he's in the New(Shin) Org. XIII. Then Marluxia goes on to introduce himself as "I'm Marluxia of True(Shin) Org. XIII." If he truly didn't understand what Sora was saying he would have continued to inquire about the "Former/Moto" remark from Sora. I figured he understands what Sora says and used a play on words with him(pun since they're basically saying Shin Juusan Kinkan" but Marluxia sees it as the true Organization because that's what it really is. Young Xehanort said as much. The former Organization wasn't the real deal and Marluxia recognizes this now. But either way I guess we'll have to wait for the game to find out the whole deal. Plus by the slim chance Marluxia wasn't with the group, I don't think Xemnas would allow Marluxia to use his Nobody henchmen for his own schemes that could interfere with Xehanort as Xemnas controls all Nobodies.
Yeah, I totally see where you're coming from, and I'd definitely defer to anyone with a stronger natural grasp of Japanese since my comprehension is still very textbook-y and I miss out on things like inflections or the finer points of grammar all the time.

On the Nobody issue, I don't think the "control" the Organization members have over their respective Nobodies (or Xemnas over all of them) is literal, i.e. the way Ansem SoD can control the Heartless, or Vanitas sort-of controls the Unversed. It seems moreso that the Nobodies responded to directives from leadership, like an army, with certain classes being assigned to certain members: with the breakdown of the original Organization, it's not clear what happened to the "lesser" Nobodies; they may well have gone rogue while waiting for somebody to come along and give them direction again. So I think Marluxia could resume control of his own Nobodies if they recognize his leadership, regardless of Xemnas (who, I'm fairly sure, would neither notice nor care at this point).

I can see that being option. Marluxia may as well just be pawn and not necessarily a seeker. As for if Larxene is going to come back in this game along with some of the other Organization, that's to be seen. I do think Luxord might play a part within the new Organization since his element is time and MX along with the other seekers are heavily involved with time travel. Plus, I think Nomura or one of the KH staff cited Luxord as their favorite character in regards to Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Mission Mode.

I still wish we get a trailer quickly to give more context towards Marluxia and what schemes he is planning and if Larxene plays a part in it since she was Marluxia's co-conspirator. If Larxene were to meet Sora again, she'd probably not be too happy and would do everything in her power to remind Sora of how he manipulated him, slapped Namine around, and broke Repliku. I do believe she would probably have a harder time for MX to manipulate since in the novels, she never actually wanted her heart back since it was too painful. I do believe it was cited in the novels. So, the questions would be.

Why would Larxene let herself be used by the new Organization if she never wanted to have her heart back? What does she get from Xehanort by torturing Sora?
The resumption of themes and narrative throughlines from CoM might get some additional traction here if the "other me" Riku is referring to really is his Replica-- in other words, it seems like this could be the game where that story comes full circle and is finally brought to closure. Sora's memory stuff is settled, the fate of the Riku Replica is addressed, and all of those Nobodies who perished in CO (good and bad) are revived and dealt with accordingly. It seems to weird to think that some five+ games and over a decade later CoM might finally be getting properly folded in to the main storyline, but considering it has provided most of the groundwork and conflict for subsequent titles while never actually being resolved, it makes sense. In fact, it sort of has to happen now: KH3 is a game about settling big universal questions, and what is "possible" or "impossible" is entirely up in the air at this point. Xion isn't supposed to be able to come back, Sora isn't supposed to be able to have both his memories of CO and the rest of it, and the list goes on as to things we've been told and believed, but that's all information derived from people who think they hold the secrets of the universe. And if there's one thing we've learned, it's that the universe in KH frequently has different plans.

As for Larxene, I think she'd take the chance to get back at Sora, especially if she gets to do it by going through the people he cares about. Cue my Larxene vs Kairi fight.
 

Luminary

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
3,338
Awards
5
I’m fairly confident Marluxia’s dialogue means he is operating within MX’s Organization. Maybe he isn’t Nort’d yet because they pulled him to replace Sora as a vessel? But as I said before, I still hope he has his own agenda tying to his motivations in both CoM and Ux.

I literally just beat Sora’s story in CoM again and we never get a solid motivation for Marluxia’s actions. I think we assume he’s just a standard power hungry villain. But now, with his reappearance as in Ux and KH3, I think there is an excellent opportunity to flesh out his character. Even though he’s most like in league with Xehanort, let’s hope there’s more going on with him than being a lackey.
 

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
@Alexis It's been said that Xemnas controls all lesser Nobodies. So again if Marluxia was planning something using his lesser Nobodies and said plan was against Xehanort then I'm sure Xemnas wouldn't let him use those minions especially when they wouldn't be on the same side. The nobodies obey Xemnas.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
I’m fairly confident Marluxia’s dialogue means he is operating within MX’s Organization. Maybe he isn’t Nort’d yet because they pulled him to replace Sora as a vessel? But as I said before, I still hope he has his own agenda tying to his motivations in both CoM and Ux.

I literally just beat Sora’s story in CoM again and we never get a solid motivation for Marluxia’s actions. I think we assume he’s just a standard power hungry villain. But now, with his reappearance as in Ux and KH3, I think there is an excellent opportunity to flesh out his character. Even though he’s most like in league with Xehanort, let’s hope there’s more going on with him than being a lackey.
Yeah, having him being a lackey within the Organization would probably go against what we know about him from COM, Days, and KH2. He was willing to let Vexen be killed by Axel to protect his motive of trying to use Sora to take over the Organization. So, Marluxia teaming up with Xehanort would probably be a spit in the face towards what we already know about him.
 

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
Yeah, having him being a lackey within the Organization would probably go against what we know about him from COM, Days, and KH2. He was willing to let Vexen be killed by Axel to protect his motive of trying to use Sora to take over the Organization. So, Marluxia teaming up with Xehanort would probably be a spit in the face towards what we already know about him.

You fail to understand that they're making all previous villains(Ansem, Xemnas and Saix) all bend to Xehanort who's the main villain of this saga. Marluxia isn't exempt from this either. Is it good writing? Not really but that's how it is.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
You fail to understand that they're making all previous villains(Ansem, Xemnas and Saix) all bend to Xehanort who's the main villain of this saga. Marluxia isn't exempt from this either. Is it good writing? Not really but that's how it is.
I could probably a similar situation to Maleficent in KH1, she wasn't exactly in cohoots with Xehanort's Heartless, but still being manipulated by him behind the scenes.
 

Luminary

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
3,338
Awards
5
You fail to understand that they're making all previous villains(Ansem, Xemnas and Saix) all bend to Xehanort who's the main villain of this saga. Marluxia isn't exempt from this either. Is it good writing? Not really but that's how it is.

While it looks that way, it doesn’t mean it will play out that way. Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort are all 100% loyal to MX as they are and always have been him. Saix and Braig have both been mostly loyal to this point and seemed pretty committed in DDD. Vanitas is also most likely dedicated to his creator. Marluxia is the first member they’ve revealed who has openly betrayed Xehanort and might do so again.

If they decide to make him purely a pawn with no free will, it will be what it is. But it is not guaranteed to be the route they are taking just because the only scene we’ve seen of him suggests it. I would prefer they give him a better written arc as he’s one of the more unique members that might even provide a potential connection to the next saga.

I was considering why Xehanort would trust Marluxia. Since Axel is the only one who came out of Castle Oblivion alive and was the source of Xemnas’ knowledge of the events there, maybe Marluxia has convinced Xehanort that Axel lied about what happened. Xehanort might believe it now that Axel has proven to be a traitor.
 
Last edited:

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
While it looks that way, it doesn’t mean it will play out that way. Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort are all 100% loyal to MX as they are and always have been him. Saix and Braig have both been mostly loyal to this point and seemed pretty committed in DDD. Vanitas is also most likely dedicated to his creator. Marluxia is the first member they’ve revealed who has openly betrayed Xehanort and might do so again.

If they decide to make him purely a pawn with no free will, it will be what it is. But it is not guaranteed to be the route they are taking just because the only scene we’ve seen of him suggests it. I would prefer they give him a better written arc as he’s one of the more unique members that might even provide a potential connection to the next saga.
I wouldn't necessarily agree about Vanitas being loyal towards MX. He has shown that he would go against MX's plan when it suits him like Vanitas would gladly do away with Ventus behind Xehanort's back and use Aqua as a backup fusion. Vanitas only listens to MX because it suits him.
 

FudgemintGuardian

Moist with roistering
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
6,316
Awards
39
Not on the current topic, but I had an amusing thought. Ya know how some of us would like if KH3 did refresher on what's happened in the series so far, like as a big flashback narrated by Yen Sid or a section in Jiminy's journal? What if this is it, and SDG go through this big exposition to catch Marluxia up on what's happened in his absence?


Kairi on~
 

Chuman

Dad of Boy
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,681
Awards
44
Age
25
alternative theory:

YX: so how can we get the PoH on board?
Xigbar: ha, kids these days. don’t you know flowers are the way to a woman’s heart?
Xemnas: fetch me marluxia
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
alternative theory:

YX: so how can we get the PoH on board?
Xigbar: ha, kids these days. don’t you know flowers are the way to a woman’s heart?
Xemnas: fetch me marluxia

I don't really see Marluxia working together with the Organization, especially since Xigbar can never pronounce his name. I bet their conversation would go something like this.

Xigbar: Yo Marluxuaiiar, I've been told to fetch you.
Marluxia: I see that you still cannot pronounce my name still.
YX *facepalms*
 

Alpha Baymax

On a scale of α to ζ.
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
4,782
Awards
23
Age
28
Location
United Kingdom
Thank you for spacing this thread, it looks far more pleasant to read now.

Honestly, I like this idea, Lauriam being a character that blends into Ventus dreams to warn him about Xehanort. So in reality, Strelitzia was always the fifth Union leader. Union X is just Ventus time as a Dandelion being re-created in his dreams, but because of Marluxia's meddling, the dream is being played out slightly differently.

Though that begs the question, Maleficent and Pete are looking for The Black Box. How can they be aware of its existence if they just traveled into Ventus dreams? Although, Maleficent does have pwer over sleep so it's not entirely out of the question...
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,422
Awards
2
Age
31
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
Thank you for spacing this thread, it looks far more pleasant to read now.

Honestly, I like this idea, Lauriam being a character that blends into Ventus dreams to warn him about Xehanort. So in reality, Strelitzia was always the fifth Union leader. Union X is just Ventus time as a Dandelion being re-created in his dreams, but because of Marluxia's meddling, the dream is being played out slightly differently.

Though that begs the question, Maleficent and Pete are looking for The Black Box. How can they be aware of its existence if they just traveled into Ventus dreams? Although, Maleficent does have pwer over sleep so it's not entirely out of the question...
Maleficent would probably know more about the Black Box because of what you suggested, though I don't know about Pete since he is just a henchman.
 

KeybladeOrder

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
387
Awards
3
Location
Georgia
I had some thoughts earlier today on Marluxia's role that blew my mind. I'm not going to comment on the whole translation debate. Not sure how I feel about this whole "Lauriam infiltrating Ventus' dreams to warn him" idea. On the one hand, it makes sense. On the other, my own theory hinges on the assumption that Lauriam really was alive back in the time of the Fortellers. The question a question a lot of us have wondered is if that's true, then how has he stayed alive the whole time? I feel like the Realm of Sleep would explain Ventus not aging, but Marluxia's presence in the Tangled world brought the possibility that Lauriam's survived this long through a completely different method.

Think about it. His elemental abilities are centered around flowers. He appears to Sora in a world based on Tangled, where Rapunzel's hair can restore someone's youth, and the ability originated with a flower. See where I'm going with this? I think that Marluxia is going to be working with Gothel, but not in a way where he replaces the Stabbington brothers. Depending on how long ago the Keyblade War was, Marluxia may have been doing the whole "sing to the flower to stay young" thing since before Gothel was born, and may even have been the one to teach her the song himself.

As for why Marluxia would take the slow path instead of spending centuries in the realm of sleep like Ventus might have been doing before Xehanort found him, I just had another about that. Here's what might have happened: something happens that forces the Dandelions to go into the Realm of Sleep. But they need someone outside, awake in order to pull them out again when the time is right, and Lauriam was given that job.
 

Luminary

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
3,338
Awards
5
I had some thoughts earlier today on Marluxia's role that blew my mind. I'm not going to comment on the whole translation debate. Not sure how I feel about this whole "Lauriam infiltrating Ventus' dreams to warn him" idea. On the one hand, it makes sense. On the other, my own theory hinges on the assumption that Lauriam really was alive back in the time of the Fortellers. The question a question a lot of us have wondered is if that's true, then how has he stayed alive the whole time? I feel like the Realm of Sleep would explain Ventus not aging, but Marluxia's presence in the Tangled world brought the possibility that Lauriam's survived this long through a completely different method.

Think about it. His elemental abilities are centered around flowers. He appears to Sora in a world based on Tangled, where Rapunzel's hair can restore someone's youth, and the ability originated with a flower. See where I'm going with this? I think that Marluxia is going to be working with Gothel, but not in a way where he replaces the Stabbington brothers. Depending on how long ago the Keyblade War was, Marluxia may have been doing the whole "sing to the flower to stay young" thing since before Gothel was born, and may even have been the one to teach her the song himself.

As for why Marluxia would take the slow path instead of spending centuries in the realm of sleep like Ventus might have been doing before Xehanort found him, I just had another about that. Here's what might have happened: something happens that forces the Dandelions to go into the Realm of Sleep. But they need someone outside, awake in order to pull them out again when the time is right, and Lauriam was given that job.

I like the idea. Especially since it makes an item from a Disney world essential to an original character’s story which rarely happens. Also, I kinda think the Unchained Realm will become the Realm of Sleep as more and more Spirits turn into Nightmares, keeping the Dandelions locked in their dreams.
 

ROKU-SHI

Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
91
Location
United Kingdom
His role will definatlty have something to do with Ventus. Maybe he is trying to locate him to save him from Xehanort maybe? who knows.

tbh, i don’t believe Marluxia/Lauriam killed Strelitzia, it seems way too obvious, the only person i think did it was either Ventus (the usual unlikely candidate to shock us) or Luxu.
 

ImVentus

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
990
Awards
4
Location
Neverland
His role will definatlty have something to do with Ventus. Maybe he is trying to locate him to save him from Xehanort maybe? who knows.

tbh, i don’t believe Marluxia/Lauriam killed Strelitzia, it seems way too obvious, the only person i think did it was either Ventus (the usual unlikely candidate to shock us) or Luxu.

I honestly want this to be a thing. I love the idea of actually have had Marluxia being a protector of Ven in Castle Of Oblivion from Xemnas in the past games.
Also, it would be too predicable if Lauriam is the culprit. I think they have lots of potential to make a pretty good arc for both Marluxia and Ven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top