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One thing I hope they do in KH3



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Gamingdevotee

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Hey newbie to the site who has been lurking for a little bit (mainly the last couple of weeks), been a Kingdom Hearts fan since KH2 and loved it so much I went back and started playing all the other KH games. Anyway so I was thinking of something that had been bothering me that I would love to post and chat about, not sure if there has been a similar thread, as I am new and still learning the ropes of the site, but if not then great ^_^

Anyway one thing I hope they add/change in KH3 is mainly to do with the party member system, after playing 2 again for the first time in the better part of a year, I remembered how nerfed the party were compared to Sora who was like a demi-god. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like the party to feel more relevant gameplay-wise and story-wise. Like I am hoping for something similar to KH1 in that when you lost your party members you felt considerably weaker.

I personally felt that Dream Eaters were a step in the right with making the party more useful and I hope they somehow make D&G and any other party member great with different ways to use them to help Sora, not just relegated to support roles like in KH2.

Do you agree? Do you disagree? I would love a fun bit of discussion on opinions if that is okay.
 

Beamer

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Yay! I'm not the only new guy!

To an extent I both agree and disagree. In KH2 you had the limits that you could performs with both Donald & Goofy, as well as Riku in the later parts of the game. I can't really say how useful they were in the long run since I haven't actually played the game, but it seemed to be a step up from the poor AI-based attacks from the first game. There's always room for improvement though, and I do think KH3 is working on that since we saw that trio attack with Goofy in the E3 2015 trailer.
 

BlackOsprey

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Honestly, if losing a teammate is going to feel like an actual problem to me during combat, those teammates need to be competent enough to not spend most of their time ko'd. I got so used to Donald and Goofy sitting out most fights that losing them didn't bother me.

Improve their AI so they can stop wasting MP and items, and give them the ability to dodge. Those few things would make a pretty big difference.
 

kirabook

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Or just have them fulfill their rolls better. Goofy is supposed to be a tank and he has a shield, but he rarely uses it to actually defend himself or anyone else. In fact, I think it's pretty silly giving Goofy a bunch of attack moves with his shield, but nothing that really involves ramming the enemy or blocking strong attacks. So far, it looks like Goofy's new limit makes a lot of sense and I hope they continue on that track.

And Donald, the magician, constantly seems to run out of magic or he's wasting his magic on enemies that are immune to his attacks. One would think if his magic is useless, he'd be using it to boost his teammates instead and heal them constantly when on the brink. (although I love the joke about Donald not healing he heals OK, just not enough or at inconvenient times sometimes)
 

Elysium

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I do wish the party members were more useful (again). I remember being able to halfway rely on MP Gift from Goofy and occasionally Cure from Donald in the first game. In KH2, they are unnecessary. Honestly, any good party member in that game is overkill on the enemies because the difficulty is pathetic.

I wish there was a way, like say hitting the triangle or the circle button, that would be a way to call to Donald to cure you, for instance, if he has the MP. A lot of times you have to hope he does something randomly and if he's about to die, usually he isn't focusing on you. lol I often used the triangle in KH1 to call the others to Sora, usually to keep them from dying immediately.
 

Gamingdevotee

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Yay! I'm not the only new guy!

To an extent I both agree and disagree. In KH2 you had the limits that you could performs with both Donald & Goofy, as well as Riku in the later parts of the game. I can't really say how useful they were in the long run since I haven't actually played the game, but it seemed to be a step up from the poor AI-based attacks from the first game. There's always room for improvement though, and I do think KH3 is working on that since we saw that trio attack with Goofy in the E3 2015 trailer.

Hey nice to meet you as well ^_^ and everybody else too

Yeah I agree limits were pretty cool and I liked them a lot, but I felt that outside limits party members couldn't do much else other than support and I hope that they change it ya know? On a side note I have a feeling that trio attack might actually be trinity limit cause it reminds me of how they would do things in KH1 during one of the coloured trinity actions

Honestly, if losing a teammate is going to feel like an actual problem to me during combat, those teammates need to be competent enough to not spend most of their time ko'd. I got so used to Donald and Goofy sitting out most fights that losing them didn't bother me.

Improve their AI so they can stop wasting MP and items, and give them the ability to dodge. Those few things would make a pretty big difference.

Lol I get that slightly, I never found that they passed out as much as everybody said though dunno maybe I got lucky. The ability to dodge would make them better I agree, but I always found that if you set them to only use items and healing in special situations they would only do it when somebody was in critical HP. On a side note I feel that they should make Donald's magic better :p at least better than Sora's.

Or just have them fulfill their rolls better. Goofy is supposed to be a tank and he has a shield, but he rarely uses it to actually defend himself or anyone else. In fact, I think it's pretty silly giving Goofy a bunch of attack moves with his shield, but nothing that really involves ramming the enemy or blocking strong attacks. So far, it looks like Goofy's new limit makes a lot of sense and I hope they continue on that track.

And Donald, the magician, constantly seems to run out of magic or he's wasting his magic on enemies that are immune to his attacks. One would think if his magic is useless, he'd be using it to boost his teammates instead and heal them constantly when on the brink. (although I love the joke about Donald not healing he heals OK, just not enough or at inconvenient times sometimes)

Amen to that. I am hoping that they somehow make Goofy more tanky than Sora, Donald is the best mage and that Sora should feel like a mix, not being better at either, but not being bad at either. Cool fact though Goofy's shield has an auto-guard so I guess that he has that going for him.

Give them some skills that benefit them in their respective role would be cool, like maybe Donald's spells could have bonus effects and Goofy could have more defensive abilities? That would be cool. The Donald healing joke I never got lol, I always found his healing to be quite predictable if you set him to heal only in special situations in 2 lol.

I do wish the party members were more useful (again). I remember being able to halfway rely on MP Gift from Goofy and occasionally Cure from Donald in the first game. In KH2, they are unnecessary. Honestly, any good party member in that game is overkill on the enemies because the difficulty is pathetic.

I wish there was a way, like say hitting the triangle or the circle button, that would be a way to call to Donald to cure you, for instance, if he has the MP. A lot of times you have to hope he does something randomly and if he's about to die, usually he isn't focusing on you. lol I often used the triangle in KH1 to call the others to Sora, usually to keep them from dying immediately.

I found they were useful in DDD but not in KH2 as much, though that could be due to abilities being tied to Dream Eater's. I hope they do something like that maybe make the party members's skill usable through some sort of hold R2 and press triangle type stuff or something to allow party members to do stuff like in Mass Effect with the space bar.

Or maybe make them smarting with their skills and make their skills better overall? Hmm could be interesting :D

Thanks for the great replies so far, you guys are great ^_^

Lol who knows maybe we will be able to play as Donald in the VR experinece like XV's Prompto lol, Donald FPS
 

VoidGear.

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I kinda agree.
I remember back in KH1, running and letting your buddies do the job was still actually an option.
In KH2, I was happy when they were dead instead of getting in the way most of the time. :s

They shouldn't be overpowered, but definitely not weak either.
 

Gamingdevotee

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I kinda agree.
I remember back in KH1, running and letting your buddies do the job was still actually an option.
In KH2, I was happy when they were dead instead of getting in the way most of the time. :s

They shouldn't be overpowered, but definitely not weak either.

Yeah I feel that KH3 should stick to a middle-ground where you are still a crux in combat being the ace on your team, but D&G and any other party member should make the game easier, maybe have it be like 50/50 where you do half and they do half or 40/30/30. I guess I just want them to actually feel like there is a reason to having them around.

Thank you for the reply :) Nice gif how do you set them up? 0_o
 

Cactuar

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Yeah I definitely agree with you in that your team members in KH3 need to be fixed. When they're a part of your party, I think that it should feel as though they're actually helpful to your cause. Unlike in KH2 where I couldn't really care less whether they lived or died.

KH1 did the best job at this I feel like because I actually had some sort of incentive to keep them alive. For example Goody's MP gift ability was super helpful, and Donald would often cast Cure and Aero on Sora. I think this was also mainly due to the AI customization in KH1 because you could set how frequently they performed such spells. Whereas in KH2 their AI customization wasn't really all that helpful in my opinion as well as Donald and Goofy not really having support abilities aside from limits (as far as I remember).

I think the main way to fix team members in KH3 is to have a good AI customization. Something like the gambit system of FFXII where you could set what they do in specific situations would be amazing. Or just making them feel more vital to the fight. In KH2 I couldn't care less if they died but if they were more vital to your survival then I would actually want to take care of them in battle (i.e. actually heal them) and which would also help with the feeling of comradery. For example, I really like what FFXV is doing where Noctis goes into a "danger" state when he runs out of HP and one of the only ways he can be healed is with help from a party member. This actually makes sure that you're taking care of your party members and watching their HP.
 

Chuman

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make party members useful and give me local co op. that's all i need.
 

Gamingdevotee

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Yeah I definitely agree with you in that your team members in KH3 need to be fixed. When they're a part of your party, I think that it should feel as though they're actually helpful to your cause. Unlike in KH2 where I couldn't really care less whether they lived or died.

KH1 did the best job at this I feel like because I actually had some sort of incentive to keep them alive. For example Goody's MP gift ability was super helpful, and Donald would often cast Cure and Aero on Sora. I think this was also mainly due to the AI customization in KH1 because you could set how frequently they performed such spells. Whereas in KH2 their AI customization wasn't really all that helpful in my opinion as well as Donald and Goofy not really having support abilities aside from limits (as far as I remember).

I think the main way to fix team members in KH3 is to have a good AI customization. Something like the gambit system of FFXII where you could set what they do in specific situations would be amazing. Or just making them feel more vital to the fight. In KH2 I couldn't care less if they died but if they were more vital to your survival then I would actually want to take care of them in battle (i.e. actually heal them) and which would also help with the feeling of comradery. For example, I really like what FFXV is doing where Noctis goes into a "danger" state when he runs out of HP and one of the only ways he can be healed is with help from a party member. This actually makes sure that you're taking care of your party members and watching their HP.

And another good post ^_^

I completely agree with you guys and hope that they do make it a focus, to me it feels like the game needs to have party members be more important and I do like the gambit system in XII, in fact I think it is one of the stronger aspects of the game.

I guess having them be more viable in combat such as they are more necessary is important, maybe give Donald spells that function better than Sora, with either higher damage or bonus abilities? Such as Donald's Fire can inflict burn which chips enemies HP or something, sort of similar to the Port Royal Pirates in KH2?

Interestingly enough I hope Mickey is also a party member (maybe for a playable Riku) and I feel that would also be cool :p
 

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What's funny is that I've been playing KH1.5 HD Remix recently and the AI in KH1 is a lot better than I remember it. Almost every time, I was on the verge of death, Donald was there to heal me right away. In fact, he was really on top of healing allies in general which was the best use out of him. In fact, anytime both Donald and Goofy were KO'd, immediately when Donald woke up, he would bring back Goofy and then if I was low on health would heal me. And Goofy would deal the most damage to the enemy in comparison to Donald and would typically stay alive the longest. He was also good at being a "shield" and taking most of the hits out of enemies that would have hit me had Goofy not gone in the way.

I don't know if it's just that I've just been having extremely good luck this past month with KH1, but it really seems like the AI was pretty solid in that game. KH2 on the other hand, they were mostly just useful for having limits and giving me the ability to use drive forms.
 

halfmango

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What's funny is that I've been playing KH1.5 HD Remix recently and the AI in KH1 is a lot better than I remember it. Almost every time, I was on the verge of death, Donald was there to heal me right away. In fact, he was really on top of healing allies in general which was the best use out of him. In fact, anytime both Donald and Goofy were KO'd, immediately when Donald woke up, he would bring back Goofy and then if I was low on health would heal me. And Goofy would deal the most damage to the enemy in comparison to Donald and would typically stay alive the longest. He was also good at being a "shield" and taking most of the hits out of enemies that would have hit me had Goofy not gone in the way.

I don't know if it's just that I've just been having extremely good luck this past month with KH1, but it really seems like the AI was pretty solid in that game. KH2 on the other hand, they were mostly just useful for having limits and giving me the ability to use drive forms.

That's an interesting point. I haven't played 1.5 yet, but it's a good thing they've been tweaking with the AIs.
Though AI aside, I think the teammates in kh2 were just too weak. They don't do any kind of damage nor are they tanky or anything. Like, the only real useful party member was riku. I do hope they balance the teammates a bit in kh 3.
 

Gamingdevotee

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make party members useful and give me local co op. that's all i need.

See that I'm not sure on KH has never been about co-op and to be quite honest I don't really feel like it should be either.

What's funny is that I've been playing KH1.5 HD Remix recently and the AI in KH1 is a lot better than I remember it. Almost every time, I was on the verge of death, Donald was there to heal me right away. In fact, he was really on top of healing allies in general which was the best use out of him. In fact, anytime both Donald and Goofy were KO'd, immediately when Donald woke up, he would bring back Goofy and then if I was low on health would heal me. And Goofy would deal the most damage to the enemy in comparison to Donald and would typically stay alive the longest. He was also good at being a "shield" and taking most of the hits out of enemies that would have hit me had Goofy not gone in the way.

I don't know if it's just that I've just been having extremely good luck this past month with KH1, but it really seems like the AI was pretty solid in that game. KH2 on the other hand, they were mostly just useful for having limits and giving me the ability to use drive forms.

I agree, I remember in KH1 with the fight against Riku at Hollow Bastion. That five minute cutscene beforehand became really painful when I was younger due to no skip and no Donald to heal me during the fight causing me to get killed more than once...

That's an interesting point. I haven't played 1.5 yet, but it's a good thing they've been tweaking with the AIs.
Though AI aside, I think the teammates in kh2 were just too weak. They don't do any kind of damage nor are they tanky or anything. Like, the only real useful party member was riku. I do hope they balance the teammates a bit in kh 3.

I'm not sure they actually tweaked the AI, in KH1 if you set Donald to stick to support mainly he was usually pretty good since he would open any fight using Aero on himself and you, and then would focus on keeping all of you alive, he was great support and his spells were good for ranged damage. Goofy was better at keeping you stocked on MP with MP gift, in fact I always found that when I had these skills my team and I were a well-oiled machine.
 

Grizzly

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Honestly, if losing a teammate is going to feel like an actual problem to me during combat, those teammates need to be competent enough to not spend most of their time ko'd. I got so used to Donald and Goofy sitting out most fights that losing them didn't bother me.

Improve their AI so they can stop wasting MP and items, and give them the ability to dodge. Those few things would make a pretty big difference.

This is the best way to make the party members relevant. We aren't asking for the most advanced AI, but just something competent. On a somewhat related note, I'd love to see more interactivity of some sort between Sora and the characters in his party in a similar way that was see between Sora and Riku at the end of KH2, where the player could initiate some of Riku's moves and then combo off of them as Sora. Having this sort of interactivity with all of the game's party members could also incentivize the mixing and matching of party members in order to create more strategy and a way to change up Sora's abilities in an effort to find the best combination with the abilities of party members.
 

Gamingdevotee

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This is the best way to make the party members relevant. We aren't asking for the most advanced AI, but just something competent. On a somewhat related note, I'd love to see more interactivity of some sort between Sora and the characters in his party in a similar way that was see between Sora and Riku at the end of KH2, where the player could initiate some of Riku's moves and then combo off of them as Sora. Having this sort of interactivity with all of the game's party members could also incentivize the mixing and matching of party members in order to create more strategy and a way to change up Sora's abilities in an effort to find the best combination with the abilities of party members.

Oh that sounds really cool, like get Donald to cast protect or Goofy to guard you with his shield.

I could get behind that or something similar at least :D
 

Sorakh212

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First of all welcome! I lurked for the longest time before I even made an account and even throughout the years mainly just speculated and read w/e was relevant at the time. To answer your question though, or just respond to your inquiry of sorts, I'd like to see a more balanced party system in KH3. It's been difficult in the past based with their AI programming when you think about the technology at the time and how limited we were both as players and them as devs, the infamous Donald seldom or never healing you meme definitely could use some work, or in my experience having both party members die way to easily and often has made Sora feel overpowered or your team members just useless.
I feel like one of the things many KH games have been missing pretty much since KH2 are the classic Sora, Donald, & Goofy trio. I'd love to see the issues I addressed earlier either get fixed, tweaked, or better yet introduce some new type of elements to keep things new, fresh, and interesting. It would be really cool to see new teammates though like having Sora team up with Riku & Aqua or something like that. I mean hell mix Sora with almost any of the other good keyblade wielders or even new Disney characters in the new worlds we visit. For example I can't wait to see how interesting and potentially good Rapunzel will be with her awesome Frying Pan attacks! xD Hahaha! Stuff like that will most certainly be an interesting addition and most welcome in the series at this rate anyhow.
 
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