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Poor Axel.



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*TwilightNight*

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Araliya said:
But Xion is completely forgotten forever.

The fact that it was one of the most predictable events that could happen as to why no one mentioned the thing, it being done for the sake of Nomura covering his ass to prevent a plot hole taints it a little.




- but Saix also seems to drop even the little that was left of their friendship from their non-nobody days.

I'd have to disagree. That's more Axel's doing, actually. He's the one who was parting away from Saïx when he started to hang out with his new buddies (or did the, "get out of my room, man" didn't do it?.) Despite that before this "change" Axel keeps talking about when Saïx became a Nobody, he had no problem being his dragon/hitman/gopher and killing members for him to get on top and stop Xemnas. Saïx was more or less the one crying like a puppy on wanting him back. He commented on it enough, at least. It isn't until the end Saïx realized that they don't have any sort of friendship anymore, and that's why we see him hunting him down in KH2.

And while in Days Axel had good intentions, he went about it the wrong way.

There is a reason why Axel had to redeem himself, after all. And he resolved whatever problems he and Roxas had in the Remembrance scene, so he wasn't alone. In fact, it seems both of them didn't care, and it was all water under the bridge by this point. It was the past, and now, they were getting their last, proper goodbye with promises to see each other again vibes thrown around.

And while he "died", and sacrificed himself for a friend, Nomura plotted a way to bring his dead characters back like someone mentioned before.

We'll see Lea in KH3. Don't doubt this.

So yeah, he went through certain problems and tribulations, but he got a happy ending and a possible return.
 
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elveina

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I think I'm the only one in this thread that doesn't give a fig about Axel's so called suffering. My reasons: In re:com he was a moral event horizon crossing asshole.In Days he was a selfish, poisonous friend and in Kh2 he was again an asshole with the whole kidnapping thing and wanting to turn Sora into a heartless again just to get Roxas back. Not to mention that as a member of the org he was willing participant in mass murder. He got what he deserved just like the rest of the org. Death. The only nobodies I feel pity for are Roxas and Namine. Xion is included in my pity,but it's somewhat tainted since I'm annoyed that she came out of nowhere, but monopolized the entire days plot from Roxas and the other established org members.

Edit: They might come back as their human-selves. Isn't that better than being nobodies and being all evil and selfish? Looking at the BBS trailer/scans and seeing little Lea and Isa( Innocent nomura called them) and the rest( especially post Xehanort) makes me feel sorry for them. The humans. Knowing what is going to happen in the future. The bastards that they all will turn into. That's sad. As nobodies they were selfish and f-up a lot of stuff, again including Axel, so they deserved (although deserve is not the right term for how Axel killed Vexen and Zexion. Know one deserves going out like that) what they got. As humans they did not.

Well, I don't think anybody's going to argue that Axel was ever a saint. Although even at Castle Oblivion you could make the case that he wasn't as much of a jerk as he seemed and start discussing motives, justifications, ethical ramifications of Nobodies/heartless etc., but that kinda goes way off topic. Even granting the point that Axel is a cruel bastard at CO, however, there's no denying that after that point he changes drastically. "Days" did nothing if not beat us over the head with that fact. No, he never even comes close to perfect, but, and this is somewhat subjective of course, after CO and especially in KH 2, I find his attempts at villain status rather pathetic and half-hearted. He even ends up apologizing for most of it eventually. Sure he's still kind of a jerk at times, but the fascinating part of Axel's story is watching him evolve from a merciless Nobody assassin who annihilates comrades without a second thought, to someone who's willing to sacrifice himself for a friend. Although maybe he did in a sense deserve what he got, I still find his story tragic.

I'd have to disagree. That's more Axel's doing, actually. He's the one who was parting away from Saïx when he started to hang out with his new buddies (or did the, "get out of my room, man" didn't do it?.) Despite that before this "change" Axel keeps talking about when Saïx became a Nobody, he had no problem being his dragon/hitman/gopher and killing members for him to get on top and stop Xemnas. Saïx was more or less the one crying like a puppy on wanting him back. He commented on it enough, at least. It isn't until the end Saïx realized that they don't have any sort of friendship anymore, and that's why we see him hunting him down in KH2.

Hmm. I can see what you're saying. But I don't see it as Axel wanting to drop the friendship so much as Saix forcing him to choose between Roxas/Xion and himself. There's also a vast difference in their responses to their shattered friendship. Saix is more like "What the hell, Axel? Have you gone mad?? What about our PLANS??" while Axel seems to be at least somewhat saddened that they can't be the friends they used to be. Saix seemed more concerned with the loss of his assassin, while Axel regretted the loss of a friend.

And while in Days Axel had good intentions, he went about it the wrong way.
Actually, I totally agree with this. That's part of the reason I find his situation so depressing. He obviously has no idea how to handle things and in the end there wasn't really any good choice he could have made.

There is a reason why Axel had to redeem himself, after all. And he resolved whatever problems he and Roxas had in the Remembrance scene, so he wasn't alone. In fact, it seems both of them didn't care, and it was all water under the bridge by this point. It was the past, and now, they were getting their last, proper goodbye with promises to see each other again vibes thrown around.

And while he "died", and sacrificed himself for a friend, Nomura plotted a way to bring his dead characters back like someone mentioned before.

We'll see Lea in KH3. Don't doubt this.

So yeah, he went through certain problems and tribulations, but he got a happy ending and a possible return.
Eh. Very, very bittersweet ending at the best. And although I can see Lea possibly/probably coming back, I can't see Roxas ever returning which leaves the scene with a very bittersweet taste for me. But yeah. There's no question it would have been far worse without at least that little bit of closure for the two of them.
 
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NumberVIII

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I think I'm the only one in this thread that doesn't give a fig about Axel's so called suffering. My reasons: In re:com he was a moral event horizon crossing asshole.In Days he was a selfish, poisonous friend and in Kh2 he was again an asshole with the whole kidnapping thing and wanting to turn Sora into a heartless again just to get Roxas back. Not to mention that as a member of the org he was willing participant in mass murder. He got what he deserved just like the rest of the org. Death. The only nobodies I feel pity for are Roxas and Namine. Xion is included in my pity,but it's somewhat tainted since I'm annoyed that she came out of nowhere, but monopolized the entire days plot from Roxas and the other established org members.

Edit: They might come back as their human-selves. Isn't that better than being nobodies and being all evil and selfish? Looking at the BBS trailer/scans and seeing little Lea and Isa( Innocent nomura called them) and the rest( especially post Xehanort) makes me feel sorry for them. The humans. Knowing what is going to happen in the future. The bastards that they all will turn into. That's sad. As nobodies they were selfish and f-up a lot of stuff, again including Axel, so they deserved (although deserve is not the right term for how Axel killed Vexen and Zexion. Know one deserves going out like that) what they got. As humans they did not.

I have to say, I strongly disagree.

I do agree that in re:com, he was a major asshole. But that was before he had any feelings. But then he gains the ability to feel from Sora's heart and being friends with Roxas, and he changes. He undergoes character development. Weird, right?

I honestly don't see how he was a "poisonous friend" in days. He fought Xion and brought her back so that other, crueler members wouldn't go after her themselves and kill her. And the first time he attacked her, he only did so after she pointed her keyblade at Roxas. Or do you mean him not telling Roxas the truth? He was torn; he wanted to tell Roxas the truth but didn't want to get either of them in trouble and was just following orders, especially after Saix talks to him, and uses their past friendship to guilt him. Eventually he does tell Roxas the truth, but Roxas just doesn't believe him and calls him a liar. Still not seeing the poisonous part here.

Oh, and outside the few members he kills in re:com (which btw he's ordered to do so and would have been killed himself if he hadn't, though I still don't think it's right, but as I said before he didn't have feelings yet), he never participates in "mass murder".

And in kh2, all he wanted was to get his best friend back. Sure, he went about it the wrong way, but he never actually goes through with it, and is actually the only organization member who sincerely apologizes to Sora. Twice. And then he sacrifices himself to save Sora/Roxas.
 

Abysmal

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Axel's definitely one of those "in-between" characters; he can either be viewed as a vapid dick or as a heroic saint. It all depends on how you look at the story. People seem to be incredibly divided about Axel. :< Personally, I like the guy. I enjoyed watching him change over the course of the story, and I do agree that he has one of the saddest stories in the series. Think about it: All of the main characters, except for Axel, get to spend the rest of their lives with those closest to them. Namine lives within Kairi and gets to see Sora and Roxas every day. Xion spends forever with Roxas because they both happily float around inside Sora's head. Riku's gone through quite a rise and fall, but ultimately, he gets a happy ending as well. What's up with that? All Axel wants is to see his best pal again.
If there ever is a KHIII, I am all for Nomura exploiting a loophole and bringing Axel back. I think it'd be great to finally get real closure for him and Roxas; that Final Mix scene just didn't cut it for me. :/
 

huanglulu

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the fascinating part of Axel's story is watching him evolve from a merciless Nobody assassin who annihilates comrades without a second thought, to someone who's willing to sacrifice himself for a friend.

I agree with you on the point that Axel story is fascinating as you see the changes in him besides you also get to see the good and bad side of Axel. Overall i dont think Axel is a really bad person base on the good side i see in him even though he can be bad at times.

I find his attempts at villain status rather pathetic and half-hearted.

I also agree iwith you on that as ii dont think a really evil villian will even feel remorse or apologize to the main character or hero on their mistake.
 

BondOfFlame

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At least he wasn't killed! He went down valiantly. C'mon guys just gotta look on the bright side sometimes.
 

Norpthalomus

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Yeah, he did have it pretty bad. But I sympathize more with Roxas than Axel. Roxas was confused right from the start. Axel at least had his memories to hold onto. Not to mention he might have deserved to lose his heart, but so far, we have no proof saying yes or no.

Well, Axel's gone. All of Organization XIII was destined to fall at some point, so I guess Axel was no exception, even if he was good in the end.
 

3keybladewielder

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in days he is played as xemmas 3rd man in on every thing and when he fights xion he states that his icky job is to bring xion and roxas back to the org he knew roxas was fighting with xion and thinking he is gone he finds out roxas last gift to him was a winner stick.

they stopped being friends after axel beats up xion
 

Guilded.Raven

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Personally, yes, Axel's story was tragic, however, I wouldn't label it as the saddest story. I wouldn't even consider Roxas's the sadest. I would have to combine the stories of Xion, Roxas and Axel into one Shakesperian tragedy (and, well, you have Days). I find them all equally sad for different reasons.

Now, in playing KH2 before CoM or Re:CoM, I got my impression of Axel from what you see then. That's COMPLETELY different from the Axel we see in CoM and Re:CoM. In those stories, he is a jerk. He is cruel and... well, heartless. But you see a major change in his character, not only in that world, but as Nomura developed his character. Yeah, ok. Maybe he did deserve what he got, but, in all honesty, didn't they all? It was their own foolishness that killed them.

Personally, I tend to lean towards Axel's types of characters, anyway. They're not the selfless, cliched hero like Sora and not the almighty evil like Xemnas/Ansem. They go through challenges and deal with their demons and are somewhere between the two extremes - neither on the side of good or evil. They waver between the two, sometimes a hero and sometimes a villain. They are their own and distinct from anything or anyone else.
 

CuStArD LuVeR

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Now Donald has the saddest story.

I mean, Goofy faked death in KH2.
How tragic....

Plus Donald got mistaked for a mom by Tarzan, and is always second to Mickey
 

Fractured_Heart628

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yeah, I agree with you, Guilded.Raven about Axel. He is just in the middle or like I call in the grey part, sometimes evil or good.

But, I do feel sorry for Axel. I've even the scene in Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix where Axel says good-bye to Roxas.. I guess true friends would sacrifice everything just for their friends.
 

xhavenx

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i agree. out of 358 days, i think he is one of the best characters for some reason. they should make a small side story for him [im just saying]. it would be interesting to play in his perspective of things.
 

Reverie

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I think Xion has one of the most saddest stories besides Axel.
 

elveina

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Don't start me off on Axel. Just don't.
I cried a river last night from just reading his death in the manga. ;_;

The thing that gets me even worse than his death scene is that scene of him and Roxas in Final Mix when he CRIES. That just kills me every single time. Especially after that last Secret Report of his in "Days." I always wonder if that scene was when he finally got to use the WINNER stick...he does have two ice creams after all.
 
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