Regarding Proposition 8

[Colours]

That was so embarissing.
Why is this not legalized.
-The girl was a disgrace.
GAYS<333

 

[violent_anger]

Let's not call gay marriage marriage and call it something else for shits and giggles.

Done.


god fuck, it's a link

 

[something-cLever]

LOL. Eerie that I came across this thread...

Yesterday, I was going on errands with my parents, and while we were on our way home, I saw a bunch of 'YES ON PROP 8!!! ' picketers that were...picketing. Some of them even had their toddlers and babies out with them, holding signs (the toddlers, that is, not the babies). This was on a busy street, and it was pouring rain outside. Regardless of the way I felt about Prop 8, I found the way they were trying to persuade people, (putting their kids in danger; I've seen people get shoved around at a picketing before, and as I said they were on a busy intersection), revolting.

This commercial is kinda similar. Not that they're putting their kids in danger or whatever, but that they're trying to sway people with emotions, (i.e., attachment and sympathy towards the girl, for whatever reason), instead of using their head and realizing that the U.S. was built on religious FREEDOM, and that they came here to escape persecution.

Lol. And if you were wondering, while we passed by the picketers, I stuck my head out the window and shouted 'Gay is the way!' at them... I'm not gay, but the look that a picketer gave me was PRICELESS!!! XD

 

[Vayne Mechanics]

Canada already has legal gay marriages all across the country so lol :v

I didn't even know when it passed, and I'm perfectly fucking fine.

 

[Sir Jecht]

We have a similar thing going on in FL called amendment 2 or "The Marriage Protection Amendment" cause it's in "danger". Quite frankly I don't see why it's dangerous for kids to know about homosexuality in a sensible way instead of them learning by being fisted by their local priests but anyways I'm disgusted by the commercial. America was founded on the principal of religious freedom but since it's not in the majority's religious book it must have just been over looked. Also I love how most of the say no to amendment 2 websites don't work, great job once again my fellow Floridians.

Now the whole prop 8 thing I'm on the fence since when it was voted on before in 2000 (and won) and was overturned. I'm for respecting the people's vote but for fuck sakes just let the fucking faagots marry and go on doing your moral traditional bullshit. Your rights aren't being infringed you fucking over sensitive bastards, grow some balls, shut the fuck up and go on with life.

 

[Audo]

o___O;;

That was quite the interesting commercial.

 

[square-enix]

I never said I agreed with the other side of the argument.

Nor did I suggest you agreed with their side of the argument. What I quoted was "I respect both sides of the argument "

However, I do respect that they have the right to form their own opinions regarding this; whether or not their opinions are tarnished with ignorance and intolerance is also a different story altogether.

Granted, that's not what you previously typed. "I respect both sides of the argument" is different from "I respect their right to form opinions" but feel free to backpedal and attempt to convince me you meant something else and/or I misread.

 

[Garth]

Granted, that's not what you previously typed. "I respect both sides of the argument" is different from "I respect their right to form opinions"

And how is that? Respecting both sides of the argument includes admitting that both sides have the right to form their own opinions on the matter. Just because I may not like their opinions doesn't mean I shouldn't acknowledge that they have as much right to form an opinion as I do. By forgetting this, I'm more or less acting just like them in assuming that my own opinion is infallible and correct.

but feel free to backpedal and attempt to convince me you meant something else and/or I misread.

Sounds to me like someone just needed to bitch this morning. Seriously, it was obvious what my post was inferring, that both sides can have their own opinions on the subject and protest all they'd like, but should do so while being respectful to the other side - stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

 

[square-enix]

And how is that? Respecting both sides of the argument includes admitting that both sides have the right to form their own opinions on the matter. Just because I may not like their opinions doesn't mean I shouldn't acknowledge that they have as much right to form an opinion as I do. By forgetting this, I'm more or less acting just like them in assuming that my own opinion is infallible and correct.

If you respect both arguments (your initial stance), you respect the content (and possibly give equal weight to both sides) and you "admit that both sides have the right to form their own opinions"

When questioned, your response changed to "I respect their right to form opinions" which is not the same as "I respect both arguments" because the former does NOT go hand in hand with respecting the actual content.

You can respect their ability to form opinions but do not have to respect the arguments themselves.
If you respect the argument, you respect the argument itself and their ability to form opinions.

So to summarize in a dialogue.

Xanagar: I respect both arguments. (both content and ability to voice opinion)
square-enix: Really?
Xangar: Yes. I respect their ability to voice opinions. (leaving out the fact that you initially respected the arguments i.e. content)

If you haven't yet noticed the contradiction in your stance (or more likely scenario, poor wording on your part), I'll point it out and you'll realize the purpose of my question.

Can you respect both arguments but at the same time feel "slightly insulted" at the argument the Yes on Prop 8 group is using?
Can anyone respect an argument and feel insulted (by that argument or group) at the same time?

If your answer to both is "No", when I asked if you really respected both arguments, I felt you should have answered "No, but I do think both sides have the right to form their own opinions.

Sounds to me like someone just needed to bitch this morning.

I'm always bitchy but my assessment was correct regardless. Backpedal central.

Seriously, it was obvious what my post was inferring, that both sides can have their own opinions on the subject and protest all they'd like, but should do so while being respectful to the other side

If you think from "I respect both sides of the argument" (barring aside your contradictory stance) I should have inferred:

-Both sides can have their own opinions
-Both sides can protest all they like
-Both sides should be nice and respectful to each other

and that these assumptions were obvious, more delusional power to you.

stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

We're two responses in. Hardly a mountain by anyone's standards save yours. I'll look forward to your answer to gain some clarity on what your actual position is.

 

[Garth]

If you respect both arguments (your initial stance), you respect the content (and possibly give equal weight to both sides) and you "admit that both sides have the right to form their own opinions"

Okay.

When questioned, your response changed to "I respect their right to form opinions" which is not the same as "I respect both arguments" because the former does NOT go hand in hand with respecting the actual content.

You can respect their ability to form opinions but do not have to respect the arguments themselves.
If you respect the argument, you respect the argument itself and their ability to form opinions.

So to summarize in a dialogue.

Xanagar: I respect both arguments. (both content and ability to voice opinion)
square-enix: Really?
Xangar: Yes. I respect their ability to voice opinions. (leaving out the fact that you initially respected the arguments i.e. content)

If you haven't yet noticed the contradiction in your stance (or more likely scenario, poor wording on your part), I'll point it out and you'll realize the purpose of my question.

Can you respect both arguments but at the same time feel "slightly insulted" at the argument the Yes on Prop 8 group is using?
Can anyone respect an argument and feel insulted (by that argument or group) at the same time?

If your answer to both is "No", when I asked if you really respected both arguments, I felt you should have answered "No, but I do think both sides have the right to form their own opinions.

Ah; then perhaps I have not been clear enough for you. I respect both arguments; this should pretty much cover everything your fatiguingly unnecessary semantics seem to question. Really, I believe you're looking into this too much. Anyone with two eyes can look at my post and easily identify my stance on this issue. I see where the contradiction takes place, but it doesn't make my stance any less obvious.

So, what was the point of this, even?

I'm always bitchy but my assessment was correct regardless. Backpedal central.

No one gives a toss about your assessment except you. Again, my stance is blatantly obvious, do you really need to spend your time exercising your semantics just to identify a contradiction that doesn't even change my point?

If you think from "I respect both sides of the argument" (barring aside your contradictory stance) I should have inferred:

-Both sides can have their own opinions
-Both sides can protest all they like
-Both sides should be nice and respectful to each other

and that these assumptions were obvious, more delusional power to you.

If you weren't able to infer it, I really do wonder how that's possible, unless you just really love to over-analyze. It's not that difficult to figure out, really. If anything, (as mentioned before) you're looking too far into this, as it's not even worthy of analyzing. But now we've gone off topic. We've gone from discussing Proposition 8 to debating something that isn't even worth debating in this topic. @.@

1. I respect both arguments presented.
2. I, personally, however, would not vote for Prop 8.
3. If two groups are going to protest one another, they should do it respectfully and civilly.

And done.

 

[#1 Xemnas]

this is some bullshit. i'm not gay, but i would still vote no. would. can't

i wouldn't marry a man, but i'm not about to take away some one elses rights. they wanna be gay, let em.
kids will learn about homosexuality eventually anyway. and then use it as biting remarks.

 

[Garth]

they wanna be gay, let em.

o.o;

I don't think it's necessarily a matter of whether or not they're choosing to be gay.

 

[#1 Xemnas]

okay. still, i won't take the right away.

 

[square-enix]

Ah; then perhaps I have not been clear enough for you. I respect both arguments; this should pretty much cover everything your fatiguingly unnecessary semantics seem to question. Really, I believe you're looking into this too much. Anyone with two eyes can look at my post and easily identify my stance on this issue. I see where the contradiction takes place, but it doesn't make my stance any less obvious.

I'm glad you see where the contradiction is and yet you're still saying you respect both arguments.
I understand your position on Prop 8 but that was never asked by me. Since you obviously did not understand what I typed in my previous post. I'll ask again in very clear terms.
How can you respect Yes on Prop 8's argument when you were "slightly insulted" by it?

No one gives a toss about your assessment except you. Again, my stance is blatantly obvious, do you really need to spend your time exercising your semantics just to identify a contradiction that doesn't even change my point?

Except my question did not relate to your position on Prop 8 at all. I was asking if you respected Yes on Prop 8's argument. Guess you really don't understand the point.

In fact, the contradiction you does change your point. I can't believe you don't see it. The contradiction is in the opening post. You see the argument made by Yes on Prop 8 as "ridiculous" and "insulting" but in the same line you contradict yourself by saying you respect the argument.

I sought clarification and you changed your initial statement. It's unbelievable that you can't see that the opinions you're giving are self-contradicting.

If you weren't able to infer it, I really do wonder how that's possible, unless you just really love to over-analyze.

Seeing as how I love to over-analyze, those assumptions you claim were obvious should have been a breeze for me.

1. I respect both arguments presented.
2. I, personally, however, would not vote for Prop 8.
3. If two groups are going to protest one another, they should do it respectfully and civilly.

Once again, the issue I have with is with 1. Your position on Prop 8 was never asked nor is it relevant to what I asked.
You respect the fact that Yes on Prop is using ads that claim "the gayz" are evilz but you're at the same time insulted. How that makes perfect sense to you is beyond me.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

Let's not call gay marriage marriage and call it something else for shits and giggles.

Except that a majority of homosexuals don't view their lifestyle as being sinful and want their union to be blessed by God.

 

[Garth]

You respect the fact that Yes on Prop is using ads that claim "the gayz" are evilz but you're at the same time insulted. How that makes perfect sense to you is beyond me.

You and I seem to have a very different idea of what is implied by the word 'respect'. Just because I respect that they are using those ads (their argument) doesn't mean I have to like those ads. It all goes back to the fact that I respect their right to have their own view on the topic and to protest.

Respect the other side of the argument =/= agree with that argument/am on the side of that argument.

It just means I acknowledge the other side of the argument and their right to protest. Hopefully, this clears things up for you. I don't plan on wasting my time arguing such a petty thing as this, when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. And that's all I will say on the matter.

 

[Regret]

Tch.... Theres a difference between respecting another view and being a bigot. It's like "I don't like them, but I don't want to be like them." He is just being a decent enough human being to go "Hey, I don't like what your saying, but I cant get all up in your face, that just isn't right or proper at all, so I'm just going to keep on pressing my side of the argument decently." But I don't see why you are continuously attacking him for discussing this like a mature adult.

 

[Garth]

Tch.... Theres a difference between respecting another view and being a bigot. It's like "I don't like them, but I don't want to be like them." He is just being a decent enough human being to go "Hey, I don't like what your saying, but I cant get all up in your face, that just isn't right or proper at all, so I'm just going to keep on pressing my side of the argument decently." But I don't see why you are continuously attacking him for discussing this like a mature adult.

Our debate in a nutshell. x_x;
That should be enough to end it, I'd hope.

 

[square-enix]

You and I seem to have a very different idea of what is implied by the word 'respect'.

It really has nothing to do with implication. Respect. Definitions 9 and 10 fit within the context of what's being discussed. What definition are you using for "respect"?

Just because I respect that they are using those ads (their argument) doesn't mean I have to like those ads. Respect the other side of the argument =/= agree with that argument/am on the side of that argument.

Interesting. You went back to the argument you used at the beginning of this discussion. I'll quote myself.
"Nor did I suggest you agreed with their side of the argument. What I quoted was 'I respect both sides of the argument '"

It all goes back to the fact that I respect their right to have their own view on the topic and to protest.... It just means I acknowledge the other side of the argument and their right to protest.

And... you're doing it again.

Xanagar: I respect both arguments. (both content and ability to voice opinion)
square-enix: Really?
Xangar: Yes. I respect their ability to voice opinions. (leaving out the fact that you initially respected the arguments i.e. content)

Saying "I respect their right to express views" is not the same as saying "I respect both arguments". I already explained this but you knocked it off as semantics.

If you do in fact respect the arguments being made, you would not feel the ad was "insulting" or "ridiculous". Respecting both arguments means each is valid; held in the same regard.

Since I'm of the impression that you thought the ad to be ridiculous, you do not respect their arguments, but you do respect their right to express that ridiculousness. The argument I'm making is not that hard to understand.

Your attempt to make the case that "I respect both arguments" is the same as "I respect their right to express views" is inane and folly.

You seem to believe that there is something wrong with not respecting both arguments. You don't have to respect both arguments to respect their ability to express themselves.

I don't plan on wasting my time arguing such a petty thing as this, when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. And that's all I will say on the matter.

Which is surprisingly similar to what you said before.

I respect your right to express yourself, if not the argument you're making.

 

[silverdragon1615]

Prop 8 is appauling, I live in California and every day on the way to school I see loads of yes on 8 signs. I even see little kids holding sings and shouting. Its no like they know what the hell it is, their parents tel them to do it. At school its also a big controversy, people made shirts saying things like,"Keep the family tree growing", and "keep it straight, yes on 8!" It really is disgusting.