Roxas and "That Guy"....

[Axel's Fire]

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Secret Report: Day 117*: "Roxas and 'That Guy'" by Xigbar

Roxas’s growth is remarkable. Making faces the spitting image of that guy, swinging the Keyblade in the exact same way. The worlds are scattered, and all are connected as one. The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies. That’s how it is.

Mostly pay attention to the bold and underlined. In this excerpt, Xigbar says that Roxas swings the Keyblade just like Ven did way back in the day and that one's skills that they had as a human carry with them into their Nobody life...or should I say "existance". That being said....I think Roxas is Ven's Nobody. I just need some other opinions. What do you think?

 

[animefreak!]

that may be plausable but they may just be describing sora to you know

but say if it was sora now you would need to explain how sora got into all this
i say that ven 's heart was somehow transferred to sora so ven and sora both share the same nobody roxas maybe?

 

[Marly]

It could be referring to Ven but I honestly see it more referring to Sora. I mean we've seen Ven using the keyblade and it's not the same as Roxas, Roxas uses his keyblade the same way Sora does.

 

[Rikoon]

(Sorry if this is bad, I'm new here and don't have much theory-discussing experience)
Well, from that quote, it seems like it could be true. He pretty much flat out says that Roxas is the Nobody of that guy, but it couldn't be referring to Sora, could it?

Edit: Aah, everyone who posted before I finished typing came up with a similar theory. Sorry, I'm not copying you guys, I just type/think slowly sometimes.

 

[Igshar]

Mostly pay attention to the bold and underlined. In this excerpt, Xigbar says that Roxas swings the Keyblade just like Ven did way back in the day and that one's skills that they had as a human carry with them into their Nobody life...or should I say "existance". That being said....I think Roxas is Ven's Nobody. I just need some other opinions. What do you think?

Yes, he's referring to Roxas and Ventus. He says nothing whatsoever about skills carrying over from human to Nobody, however. In the official English translation of that particular report, he says

"And we Nobodies can never escape the things we did as humans. So it goes."

Skills =/= Deeds, basically. There's nothing at all to say that Roxas is Ventus' Nobody, but Roxas and Ventus ARE indeed connected in some as yet unknown manner.

For the record, it's day 117.

Well, from that quote, it seems like it could be true. He pretty much flat out says that Roxas is the Nobody of that guy, but it couldn't be referring to Sora, could it?

No. Xigbar has never met Sora. How in the world could he be referring to Sora when he's yet to meet the guy? The first time Xigbar meets with Sora is when Sora invades The Castle That Never Was in KH2.

ksorry.

 

[Axel's Fire]

that may be plausable but they may just be describing sora to you know

but say if it was sora now you would need to explain how sora got into all this
i say that ven 's heart was somehow transferred to sora so ven and sora both share the same nobody roxas maybe?

ehhh.....i dont think he's talking about sora....HUGE SPOILER coming your way. Don't click if you havent beaten Days...

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIFrqcT7zg"]YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days(English) - Xigbar // Ven(Xion) Encounter[/URL]

 

[Igshar]

ehhh.....i dont think he's talking about sora....HUGE SPOILER coming your way. Don't click if you havent beaten Days...

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIFrqcT7zg"]YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days(English) - Xigbar // Ven(Xion) Encounter[/URL]

Also because Xigbar had not met Sora by Day 117 when he wrote that note, derp. >_>

 

[Marly]

Also because Xigbar had not met Sora by Day 117 when he wrote that note, derp. >_>

You don't know that, Castle Oblivion has already happened, it's very possible for Xigbar to have seen Sora at work. Plus you can tell Roxas has no similarities in his use of the keyblade to Ven we've seen them both use the keyblade and it's very different.

 

[Igshar]

You don't know that, Castle Oblivion has already happened, it's very possible for Xigbar to have seen Sora at work. Plus you can tell Roxas has no similarities in his use of the keyblade to Ven we've seen them both use the keyblade and it's very different.

We played through all of Castle Oblivion in a game known as Chain of Memories.

In 358/2 Days, we learned that those members who did not go to Castle Oblivion were all but oblivious to the goings-on therein, seen by how no one, including Xigbar, knew WHO had died in the Castle when it was reported that someone did.

We never saw Xigbar in Chain of Memories, meaning he never went to Castle Oblivion and never saw Sora in action.


And please show me the video(s) of Ventus gameplay and I'll find you a Gear with a similar fighting style to it. Roxas' style barely has similarity to Sora. Sora SUCKS with the Keyblade. Roxas STARTS similarly to Sora, but grows into a completely different fighting style from him.

 

[Sacred X]

And please show me the video(s) of Ventus gameplay and I'll find you a Gear with a similar fighting style to it. Roxas' style barely has similarity to Sora. Sora SUCKS with the Keyblade. Roxas STARTS similarly to Sora, but grows into a completely different fighting style from him.

...What?

First off, despite who Xigbar was talking about, we know Roxas and Sora have similar styles. Ventus is... just way out there. I mean, just from the way he holds his Keyblade we know he has a different style. And as for you saying Sora sucks with the Keyblade? No. He kicked Roxas' ass that's for sure.

 

[gelandporn]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's referring to Ven.

Look at the context.
Why would he call Sora "that guy"? There's no purpose in masking the name (if it's Sora he's talking about) at that point in the game considering the player has already been made aware of the whole relationship with Sora (whether they've played KH2 or not).

Additionally, there's this statement:
"The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies."

That line makes it abundantly clear. When Xigbar is thinking of Roxas and his similarity to "that guy," he's thinking of the past, back when he was a Somebody. It was strongly implied throughout the game that Xigbar invested much interest in Roxas' future because of something that happened in the past between Braig and Ven.

"That guy" is Ven, not Sora.

As for the point that Roxas has a more similar fighting style to Sora than to Ven, keep this in mind:
- Xigbar thinks Sora "isn't half the hero" that TAV were. To hold Roxas' development with the Keyblade so highly is in direct contrast with how he regards Sora.
- Nomura has already said that Ven's style and some of his attacks are similar to Sora's (on purpose). If he has a similar style to Sora's style, then he has a similar style to Roxas' style.

 

[Axel's Fire]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's referring to Ven.

Look at the context.
Why would he call Sora "that guy"? There's no purpose in masking the name (if it's Sora he's talking about) at that point in the game considering the player has already been made aware of the whole relationship with Sora (whether they've played KH2 or not).

Additionally, there's this statement:
"The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies."

That line makes it abundantly clear. When Xigbar is thinking of Roxas and his similarity to "that guy," he's thinking of the past, back when he was a Somebody. It was strongly implied throughout the game that Xigbar invested much interest in Roxas' future because of something that happened in the past between Braig and Ven.

"That guy" is Ven, not Sora.

As for the point that Roxas has a more similar fighting style to Sora than to Ven, keep this in mind:
- Xigbar thinks Sora "isn't half the hero" that TAV were. To hold Roxas' development with the Keyblade so highly is in direct contrast with how he regards Sora.
- Nomura has already said that Ven's style and some of his attacks are similar to Sora's (on purpose). If he has a similar style to Sora's style, then he has a similar style to Roxas' style.

Thank you. Though the question is...Do you think that Xigbar thinks that Roxas is Ven's Nobody?

 

[Oblivionite]

If roxas is ven's nobody..then there has to be a connection to sora.

What I really hope is that Roxas/Ven are the same people/person. Cause I don't want two different people looking alike doing different things yeah you know what I mean...

 

[gelandporn]

Thank you. Though the question is...Do you think that Xigbar thinks that Roxas is Ven's Nobody?

No. Roxas can't be Ven's Nobody for obvious reasons.

But I think Xigbar knows more about Roxas' situation than he lets on. If he considers Roxas' development as a progression toward being like Ven rather than Sora, then he knows something we don't.

More importantly, though, Xigbar seems to think that he has a part to play in it.

"The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies."

He's referring to himself here. We can gather from this statement that Braig did something in the past that affected Ven and has haunted him ever since ("Do you always have to stare at me like I just drowned your goldfish?")- like the sin's of our fathers (or, in this case, the sins of our Somebodies).

 

[Igshar]

...What?

First off, despite who Xigbar was talking about, we know Roxas and Sora have similar styles. Ventus is... just way out there. I mean, just from the way he holds his Keyblade we know he has a different style. And as for you saying Sora sucks with the Keyblade? No. He kicked Roxas' ass that's for sure.

Lol, he kicked Roxas' ass? You mean when Sora fought the image of Roxas in his own head while traversing The World That Never Was? During this time, Sora has been fighting and Roxas has been sleeping. Think he might have been slightly rusty? Not to mention Sora is the original in that duo, meaning he'd have a slight upper hand. I also remember him getting PUMMELED by Roxas for the first half of that fight before he totally cheats to beat Roxas.

Sora needs to fuse with Goofy/Donald/Both to draw on enough power to Dual Wield throughout KH2. Roxas Dual Wields on his own without even trying to just seven days after losing all of his memories. Roxas spent his entire life fighting Heartless; he's definitely more skilled than Sora. Sora is far from a Keyblade Master.

As for the videos, I only saw one video of Ventus fighting up until this point and it reminded me a LOT of gameplay with Roxas in Days. :\ Show me these videos of him holding the Keyblade differently and fighting differently, please, because I don't see the glaring differences you all seem to see.

More importantly, though, Xigbar seems to think that he has a part to play in it.

"The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies."

He's referring to himself here. We can gather from this statement that Braig did something in the past that affected Ven and has haunted him ever since ("Do you always have to stare at me like I just drowned your goldfish?")- like the sin's of our fathers (or, in this case, the sins of our Somebodies).

You always say exactly what I try to say in such a more eloquent fashion. D: You rock. <3

 

[Axel's Fire]

No. Roxas can't be Ven's Nobody for obvious reasons.

But I think Xigbar knows more about Roxas' situation than he lets on. If he considers Roxas' development as a progression toward being like Ven rather than Sora, then he knows something we don't.

More importantly, though, Xigbar seems to think that he has a part to play in it.

"The deeds from one’s time as a human follow them even when they become Nobodies."

He's referring to himself here. We can gather from this statement that Braig did something in the past that affected Ven and has haunted him ever since ("Do you always have to stare at me like I just drowned your goldfish?")- like the sin's of our fathers (or, in this case, the sins of our Somebodies).

Hmm...alright then. Thanks for sheddin some light. Xigbar's wording confused me a little I guess...

 

[Sacred X]

Lol, he kicked Roxas' ass? You mean when Sora fought the image of Roxas in his own head while traversing The World That Never Was? During this time, Sora has been fighting and Roxas has been sleeping. Think he might have been slightly rusty? Not to mention Sora is the original in that duo, meaning he'd have a slight upper hand. I also remember him getting PUMMELED by Roxas for the first half of that fight before he totally cheats to beat Roxas.

Really? Maybe Sora wasn't stunned because a guy in black who can wield two keyblades, with Keyblade wielders being rare to Sora, suddenly jumps out and attacks him out of no where? No, Half of Sora can't beat Sora. Sora is stronger. Whether you like Roxas more or not, whether I like Roxas more or not, doesn't matter. Sora is stronger, and if you want to count the actual battle, managed to wield THREE Keyblades.

Sora needs to fuse with Goofy/Donald/Both to draw on enough power to Dual Wield throughout KH2. Roxas Dual Wields on his own without even trying to just seven days after losing all of his memories. Roxas spent his entire life fighting Heartless; he's definitely more skilled than Sora. Sora is far from a Keyblade Master.

Do you even know WHY Roxas can dual wield? It's all thanks to Xion, not because he's "so skilled he can handle it". Apparrently a one-keyblade wielding Sora can defear a two-keyblade wielding Roxas.

As for the videos, I only saw one video of Ventus fighting up until this point and it reminded me a LOT of gameplay with Roxas in Days. :\ Show me these videos of him holding the Keyblade differently and fighting differently, please, because I don't see the glaring differences you all seem to see.

Lol, I guess you never paid attention to Ven's gameplay during that one video. I won't resort to ad hominems though, so I'll show ya.

Lol, he kicked Roxas' ass? You mean when Sora fought the image of Roxas in his own head while traversing The World That Never Was? During this time, Sora has been fighting and Roxas has been sleeping. Think he might have been slightly rusty? Not to mention Sora is the original in that duo, meaning he'd have a slight upper hand. I also remember him getting PUMMELED by Roxas for the first half of that fight before he totally cheats to beat Roxas.

Really? Maybe Sora wasn't stunned because a guy in black who can wield two keyblades, with Keyblade wielders being rare to Sora, suddenly jumps out and attacks him out of no where? No, Half of Sora can't beat Sora. Sora is stronger. Whether you like Roxas more or not, whether I like Roxas more or not, doesn't matter. Sora is stronger, and if you want to count the actual battle, managed to wield THREE Keyblades.

Sora needs to fuse with Goofy/Donald/Both to draw on enough power to Dual Wield throughout KH2. Roxas Dual Wields on his own without even trying to just seven days after losing all of his memories. Roxas spent his entire life fighting Heartless; he's definitely more skilled than Sora. Sora is far from a Keyblade Master.

Do you even know WHY Roxas can dual wield? It's all thanks to Xion, not because he's "so skilled he can handle it". Apparrently a one-keyblade wielding Sora can defear a two-keyblade wielding Roxas.

As for the videos, I only saw one video of Ventus fighting up until this point and it reminded me a LOT of gameplay with Roxas in Days. :\ Show me these videos of him holding the Keyblade differently and fighting differently, please, because I don't see the glaring differences you all seem to see.

Lol, I guess you never paid attention to Ven's gameplay during that one video. I won't resort to ad hominems though, so I'll show ya.

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - Ven gameplay(Remastered)

You can see, especially at 0:41, that he's the ONLY keyblade wielder thus far to hold it like that. He seems to have some sort of reverse-grip on that thing. This combos are also very different from Roxas, due to his unique fighting style, as 0:47 shows. Also 0:57 shows a style that, if any, is more similar to Sora's fighting style.

You can see, especially at 0:41, that he's the ONLY keyblade wielder thus far to hold it like that. He seems to have some sort of reverse-grip on that thing. This combos are also very different from Roxas, due to his unique fighting style, as 0:47 shows. Also 0:57 shows a style that, if any, is more similar to Sora's fighting style. Besides, even Nomura stated that TAV's fighting style is like none we've seen before, since these are supposedly "true masters" of the Keyblade.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

I think Xigbar was also referring to Ventus. Sora is very apparent by that point and there's no reason to hide it. There was no motivation for him to write "that guy" instead of the full name. There's no proof or evidence that he had met Sora before. And if he did, he sure didn't comment on it when it would have been important to note if he's connected to BBS. And on top of that, once more, he certainly didn't show that he had seen Sora with his very own eyes when he spoke in KH2. Xigbar in his Secret Reports has a habit of connecting things to Ven by making the pseudonym "him", or "that guy" as well.

It's natural to take in that it was Ven that was being thought of at that instant.

Really? Maybe Sora wasn't stunned because a guy in black who can wield two keyblades, with Keyblade wielders being rare to Sora, suddenly jumps out and attacks him out of no where? No, Half of Sora can't beat Sora. Sora is stronger. Whether you like Roxas more or not, whether I like Roxas more or not, doesn't matter. Sora is stronger, and if you want to count the actual battle, managed to wield THREE Keyblades.

Being stunned by someone attacking him should have been left right at the beginning, and should be focused on fighting and defending. It wasn't like Sora was standing throughout the whole fight just staring. He questioned who Roxas was, but kept on deflecting and attacking. And you have to be honest here. It wasn't Roxas who was at Keyblade point and cornered where you thought was the end of the fight. It was the other way around. If Sora hadn't pulled that move of recalling back his Keyblade in the nick of time, I don't know what Roxas would have done. I doubt kill his own self, but the defeat was wide open. I'd say it was lucky that Roxas was arrogant enough to do a badass pose, stopped, and didn't finish him off when he obviously had the chance right then and there. Like, seriously, had the chance. I'm surprised he paused and didn't nail him. Then again, it probably wasn't his goal. That conscious battle in itself was kind of open-ended.

Also, half of Sora? Doesn't that mean that Sora is part of that half as well and will make him just as incomplete? And Sora isn't stronger. Nomura already stated that anything Roxas can do, Sora can do (hence, how Sora suddenly could skateboard). And vice-versa. I'll find that interview if I have to. So, really, there's no real difference except characteristics and persona. And appearance. They are each other. And will be the same in terms of skill.

Do you even know WHY Roxas can dual wield? It's all thanks to Xion, not because he's "so skilled he can handle it". Apparrently a one-keyblade wielding Sora can defear a two-keyblade wielding Roxas.

It didn't have to be Xion for Roxas to dual wield. It could have been anything that could dig a reason, and it's sort of said that she merely awakened a Keyblade within him. Not that he exactly inherited hers. There was nothing to inherit: Nomura had called even Xion's Keyblade fake and didn't make any effort to confirm otherwise.

In the end, whatever the dual wielding case it is, it doesn't matter how you got the weapon. It's how you wield it. And Roxas does a dang good job, I'd say. With more style.

You might as well say that Sora isn't anything special either considering Riku was suppose to be the original wielder if you're going that road :/.

 

[Sacred X]

I think Xigbar was also referring to Ventus. Sora is very apparent by that point and there's no reason to hide it. There was no motivation for him to write "that guy" instead of the full name. There's no proof or evidence that he had met Sora before. And if he did, he sure didn't comment on it when it would have been important to note if he's connected to BBS. And on top of that, once more, he certainly didn't show that he had seen Sora with his very own eyes when he spoke in KH2. Xigbar in his Secret Reports has a habit of connecting things to Ven by making the pseudonym "him", or "that guy" as well.

It's natural to take in that it was Ven that was being thought of at that instant.



Being stunned by someone attacking him should have been left right at the beginning, and should be focused on fighting and defending. It wasn't like Sora was standing throughout the whole fight just staring. He questioned who Roxas was, but kept on deflecting and attacking. And you have to be honest here. It wasn't Roxas who was at Keyblade point and cornered where you thought was the end of the fight. It was the other way around. If Sora hadn't pulled that move of recalling back his Keyblade in the nick of time, I don't know what Roxas would have done. I doubt kill his own self, but the defeat was wide open. I'd say it was lucky that Roxas was arrogant enough to do a badass pose, stopped, and didn't finish him off when he obviously had the chance right then and there. Like, seriously, had the chance. I'm surprised he paused and didn't nail him. Then again, it probably wasn't his goal. That conscious battle in itself was kind of open-ended.

Also, half of Sora? Doesn't that mean that Sora is part of that half as well and will make him just as incomplete? And Sora isn't stronger. Nomura already stated that anything Roxas can do, Sora can do (hence, how Sora suddenly could skateboard). And vice-versa. I'll find that interview if I have to. So, really, there's no real difference except characteristics and persona. And appearance. They are each other. And will be the same in terms of skill.



It didn't have to be Xion for Roxas to dual wield. It could have been anything that could dig a reason, and it's sort of said that she merely awakened a Keyblade within him. Not that he exactly inherited hers. There was nothing to inherit: Nomura had called even Xion's Keyblade fake and didn't make any effort to confirm otherwise.

In the end, whatever the dual wielding case it is, it doesn't matter how you got the weapon. It's how you wield it. And Roxas does a dang good job, I'd say. With more style.

You might as well say that Sora isn't anything special either considering Riku was suppose to be the original wielder if you're going that road :/.

Okay. I could counter everything you just said. Really, and honestly, I could. But I'm going to take the much easier, much shorter route.

Roxas lost to Riku in Xehanort's Heartless form. Sora beat Xehanort's Heartless. Game-Set-Match. And when Roxas lost, he lost badly. Not "it was close" or "he could have won", he got his ass kicked five times before he hit the ground. Didn't have a chance. I'm enjoying rubbing this in. I don't mind Roxas and all, Days and FM+ got me to like him a bit. But Sora gets way too much bashing than he deserves.

So you can go on and say Xigbar was talking about Sora or Ven. I don't care, I just know Ven's style is different than anything else we've seen before. That, and Sora is stronger than Roxas. Take our current Sora, and take Roxas from before his disappearence, and you have a Roxas that doesn't stand a chance.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Okay. I could counter everything you just said. Really, and honestly, I could. But I'm going to take the much easier, much shorter route.

Roxas lost to Riku in Xehanort's Heartless form. Sora beat Xehanort's Heartless. Game-Set-Match. And when Roxas lost, he lost badly. Not "it was close" or "he could have won", he got his ass kicked five times before he hit the ground. Didn't have a chance. I'm enjoying rubbing this in. I don't mind Roxas and all, Days and FM+ got me to like him a bit. But Sora gets way too much bashing than he deserves.

So you can go on and say Xigbar was talking about Sora or Ven. I don't care, I just know Ven's style is different than anything else we've seen before. That, and Sora is stronger than Roxas. Take our current Sora, and take Roxas from before his disappearence, and you have a Roxas that doesn't stand a chance.

Sora getting too much bashing it's not my problem, because this isn't the point of the discussion. I'm suppose to ignore things because a character gets flamed? Which is not even happening here, by the way. Apparently, someone being stronger than someone else is...bashing? I don't get it. Regardless, Roxas was caught off guard by the speed of Xehanort's Heartless, or that Riku changed into anything, period. He couldn't get out of the grab to actually do anything by the time he even processed the surprise. It's shown rather plainly. Sora really had no such problem; as he was prepared and saw it coming. He was there to actually fight him. And knew who Ansem Heartless was and what he looked like. To Roxas, this was all new <--- and honestly, if he could defeat three Xion Sora machine forms, then I doubt he would lose if he saw what Riku would do a mile off. Moving from that, both Roxas and Riku were doing pretty well. One fell, the other fell next. There's a reason why Riku had to result into turning to Rikunort. And something which he admits right in the very scene itself. He wouldn't be saying it for hell of it. Roxas outright defied that he was losing. And he agreed. So, really, I don't see the he lost FIVE TIMES thing at all unless I missed something in Deep Dive. This is another fight that was left open-ended and can be argued on. No doubt to please both sides.

And it doesn't matter what you counter in the long run, or what your opinion is. Neither is mine. The fact is, provided by the director: what Sora can do, Roxas can do. What Roxas can do, Sora can do. It's the same. They're the same power. They're equal. And there's not one who's more powerful than the other as much as you, or anyone else, want it to be. And that's why there's not even a point to continue this debate. It's been answered, and not by us. By Nomura.

I can go on to say that Xigbar was talking about Sora or Ven, right? It's the discussion. I'm not going to stop putting my opinion on who it was. I don't even get why it's such a big deal that Xigbar commented on Roxas's progress and saw Ven in him with the way he battled. It's not like it was outright said that Roxas was just as powerful as Ven. There's suppose to be connections here anyway.