Should "Under God" be taken off the pledge of Allegiance

[legendary_Dosa7]

What is your opnion on it and tell the reason why it should be taken off.

I personally think it violates the seperation of Government and Religion. The founding Fathers stressed it a lot that those two should be seperated.

 

[Vossler]

Preferbly, no I don't thinks so.

 

[Unabomber]

i don't believe in god, but i say no solely because of tradition. it's the way our forefathers intended the pledge to be.

 

[Blueman]

I personally think it violates the seperation of Government and Religion. The founding Fathers stressed it a lot that those two should be seperated.

Then why did they put 'Under God' there?

 

[legendary_Dosa7]

i don't believe in god, but i say no solely because of tradition. it's the way our forefathers intended the pledge to be.

Under God part wasn't added until 1954 so no forefathers did not inteded it.

 

[Unabomber]

Under God part wasn't added until 1954 so no forefathers did not inteded it.

oh, well then our ANCESTORS wanted it that way.

 

[UsagiOkami]

I don't believe it should be on there because not only does it blur the line between religion and government but I've also heard that when it was put in there it was written for the "Christian God" and that's unfair to those that are not Christian.

 

[XenonSovereign]

Politics and Religion are worst than Vodka and Fire

But I guess it could be left alone. If you don't like it, don't say it. I don't say the PoA, I shout: Fuck America

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

Then why did they put 'Under God' there?

They didn't. As somebody said before me, "In God We Trust" and "Under God" were only added to our currency and our pledge of allegiance respectively in the 1950's.

Basically, the words should not be there, for numerous reasons and the fact that separation of church and state is a part of our constitution really only touches on the tip of the iceberg. By declaring that we are a nation "under God" we're almost insinuating that God created Americans and not human beings -- and then we wonder why the rest of the world hates us. I could write a book...

Since we're on the subject of things that violate separation of church and state, I'll throw in that I'm also against placing statues of the ten commandments near courthouses as well as making people swear to God when they testify in legal matters. I'm sure the list goes on and on.

But these issues all come second to things like the economy, global relations and environmental issues, which is why I will be firmly against people like Michael Newdow until we live in a world where these things can be our biggest concern.

I don't believe it should be on there because not only does it blur the line between religion and government but I've also heard that when it was put in there it was written for the "Christian God" and that's unfair to those that are not Christian.

An excellent point that I completely agree with. If the pledge said "one nation under our creator" I would not mind it at all, but the use of the word "God" itself directly refers to the deity of Judeo-Christian religions; thus it is discriminatory.

 

[UsagiOkami]

Wow... That describes my entire family's views on the matter... Actually it describes my family's views on numerous matters.

 

[Dogenzaka]

I think they should keep it, not just because I mean it when I say it, but because it's been that way for years, and if you don't agree with it you don't have to say it, just like in songs during Holiday and Christmas plays. Not much of a big deal, to me. Even funnier because from what I understand, most of the people that didn't like the "Under God" thing were Muslim...who believe in a god....and they can either say nothing or say "Under Allah" or whatever. :/

The founding Fathers stressed it a lot that those two should be seperated.

The Founding Fathers were mostly Christian lol.

for numerous reasons and the fact that separation of church and state is a part of our constitution really only touches on the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not sure I consider the pledge an aspect of "state" :/; the separation of church and state was set apart to let the government leave religion alone in the first place, not necessarily vice versa. Haha.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

To be honest I am against the way the pledge is currently implemented altogether. I was expected to recite it in Kindergarten, when I was five years old, at which point I didn't understand the concept of a pledge, an allegiance, the significance of a flag, a government, a higher power etc. To a certain extent I'd be willing to call it a socially accepted form of government sanctioned brainwashing, but at the risk of sounding like Oliver Stone...

Maybe I'm going slightly off topic. I don't know.

I can be cute.

the separation of church and state was set apart to let the government leave religion alone in the first place

Absolutely. The first Europeans to colonize this part of the world to escape a society where their political leaders imposed their religious beliefs on them, after all.

not necessarily vice versa. Haha.

That, however, is not true and you know it. See: above.

 

[Dogenzaka]

That, however, is not true and you know it. See: above.

Well, the statement "separation of church and state" can certainly be applied to work both ways, but I don't think that was their original intention. Meaning, I don't think they were so worried about keeping religion out of government when most of them were Christians; I think they were more traumatized and worried (since the pilgrimage and the annoyance of Britain controlling them) about the government getting involved in their sensitive affairs such as religion.

To be honest I am against the way the pledge is currently implemented altogether. I was expected to recite it in Kindergarten, when I was five years old, at which point I didn't understand the concept of a pledge, an allegiance, the significance of a flag, a government, a higher power etc. To a certain extent I'd be willing to call it a socially accepted form of government sanctioned brainwashing, but at the risk of sounding like Oliver Stone...

To be honest I pretty much agree.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

Well, the statement "separation of church and state" can certainly be applied to work both ways, but I don't think that was their original intention. Meaning, I don't think they were so worried about keeping religion out of government when most of them were Christians; I think they were more traumatized and worried (since the pilgrimage and the annoyance of Britain controlling them) about the government getting involved in their sensitive affairs such as religion.

I agree with you in some ways, but the relationship between religion and the state is cyclical; it was because religion was allowed to play an active role in European politics that eventually minority religions became oppressed and sought to escape. When the concept of separation of church and state entered into the US constitution it was definitely meant to go both ways, because it simply can't go only one way or the destructive cycle would start anew.

 

[missyemy]

No. Because you dont even have to say it if you dont want to. People at my school dont at all, except for the teachers.
I feel its really your choice to say it. I do. Some dont. Big deal.

 

[marlousmiracle]

The way I see it "Under God" doesn't necessarily mean one particular type of god but "Under" the God you believe in

 

[Ulti]

No. It was meant to be the Christian God, which is why I refuse to do the pledge anymore. I just find it a bit insulting to those of other faiths or those without faith. We aren't completely a Christian nation. We are mixed. Various faiths live in our borders. Why screw that and just put apply one religion to the Pledge? On that note, as others said, government and religion shouldn't mix.

It just bugs me so much is that in early grades, they make you recite it. No damn choice whatsoever.

Founding Fathers were pretty open with religion. Jefferson truly wanted things separate. We show our respect to him by screwing him over :\

 

[UsagiOkami]

No. It was meant to be the Christian God, which is why I refuse to do the pledge anymore. I just find it a bit insulting to those of other faiths or those without faith. We aren't completely a Christian nation. We are mixed. Various faiths live in our borders. Why screw that and just put apply one religion to the Pledge? On that note, as others said, government and religion shouldn't mix.

It just bugs me so much is that in early grades, they make you recite it. No damn choice whatsoever.

Founding Fathers were pretty open with religion. Jefferson truly wanted things separate. We show our respect to him by screwing him over :\

Exactly, having that in there is just bigotry. And having grade school kids recite it is just wrong, children aren't fully capable of understanding such concepts as religion until they are twelve, having them recite something that they cannot fully understand is just wrong.

 

[Major Tom]

Politics and Religion are worst than Vodka and Fire

But I guess it could be left alone. If you don't like it, don't say it. I don't say the PoA, I shout: Fuck America

I'm loving this idea!

 

[Urbane]

The way I see it "Under God" doesn't necessarily mean one particular type of god but "Under" the God you believe in

I don't believe in a god. So what then? This is pretty offensive if you ask me. Well, the whole Under God thing. Also, I read somewhere that athiests can't join the boy scouts, is that true?