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- Nov 9, 2011
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- 94
Would you say that they are... SLEEPING... inside of Sora as of the moment?
*Wink wink nudge nudge*
?
*Wink wink nudge nudge*
?
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I think that's a safe conclusion. I would hope they appear in DDD in some other form with all the build up to saving them. It can be brief, but at least let us know they're still there.
Nomura did say that DDD will connect Days, BbS, and Re:Coded, and I can't see how he would plan to connect Days without at least mentioning Xion. That said, I think if Nomura puts all of these returning characters in the game, there is a high chance he will over-complicant the story for anyone who hasn't played most of the games thus far.
People who haven't played most of the games thus far went out the window a while ago : P
I don't expect major appearances. Just a single scene will do for me
Lol, not bad.They've been trying to, but they keep arguing over who gets to be on top. Xion says she gets tops because she had the more tragic story but then Roxas said that she's just a puppet so her opinion doesn't count and that's when she pulled out her Keyblade.
People who haven't played most of the games thus far went out the window a while ago : P
I don't expect major appearances. Just a single scene will do for me
They've been trying to, but they keep arguing over who gets to be on top. Xion says she gets tops because she had the more tragic story but then Roxas said that she's just a puppet so her opinion doesn't count and that's when she pulled out her Keyblade.
To be honest I still see Roxas and Ventus as the same person, and agree with the theory that Roxas wasn't completely a nobody and that he was carrying Ventus' damaged heart within him. Sure, he and Ventus have different personalities to an extent; but then again, Ventus was naturally very naive and upbeat due to his pure heart of light (thanks to the darkness being forcibly removed from his heart by Xehanort.) After destroying Vanitas and the X-blade, that darkness might have returned to his heart where it was supposed to be in the first place. To me, this would explain Roxas' more serious and tense nature.
... buuut I'm getting off topic.
In short, I agree for the most part that Xion and Roxas are asleep within Sora; but not that Roxas and Ventus are separate beings.
I may be entirely wrong about all that, though xD
That's true, I'd never really thought about that. Roxas does seem to be far more self reliant than Ventus was, with a stronger sense of independence ... And like you said, he had to develop his own personality over the course of Days.
If he really is a separate being then, as well as Xion, I'm curious as to how Dream Drop Distance or even KHIII will go about granting hearts to two people who were never meant to exist, three including Namine. Perhaps they may find a way to create their own...
So basically, Ventus >>>> Roxas :]
Finding hearts for Nobodies? Well then they're no better than the Organization!
Well, I'm fairly certain its been "officially" said somewhere that they are in fact 2 separate beings (I'd agree to that anyway). Irregardless of that, there's a few key differences between their personalities that you can take note of:
Roxas is a lot more... "self" oriented. It's not to say selfish no, but:
"I am ME! Nobody else!"
Roxas tends to draw on his own strength rather than that of his friends as Ventus/Sora do. (Well that's kinda I suppose because he is alone at almost all of his key moments)
(And no, Xion's "death" granting him his power back in full doesn't count since she was sapping it in the first place.)
Ventus on the other hand: Is all about friendship and its strengths.
I can't say it word for word, but Ventus's quote about being willing to sacrifice himself for his friends when he faces Vanitus in his DTH is a perfect example of this. He draws power from his friends as they do from him (Aqua VS Ven/Vanitus With Ki-Blade as an example)
I do also believe though that you're right, Roxas does (did, w/e) have Ven's heart. (Since, ya know, it didn't go back to Ven and wake him up when Sora key'd himself, and since Roxas resembles Ven)
The serious/tense theory isn't that bad of an idea, but honestly IMO, Ven's heart was kinda K.O.d when he destroyed the Ki-Blade. Besides influencing appearances, I'm not sure if it's really in a condition to function/influence personality. Roxas had to find his own personality over the course of days/KH2, because he was a "Zombie" at first.
Just my 2 cents.
That's true, I'd never really thought about that. Roxas does seem to be far more self reliant than Ventus was, with a stronger sense of independence ... And like you said, he had to develop his own personality over the course of Days.
If he really is a separate being then, as well as Xion, I'm curious as to how Dream Drop Distance or even KHIII will go about granting hearts to two people who were never meant to exist, three including Namine. Perhaps they may find a way to create their own...
Spoiler Show
Data Sora can newly obtain a legitimate Keyblade during his adventure, but are there changes to the real Keyblade when that happens?
Nomura: No, it’s a data version the entire time. However like with the first Keyblade, it wasn’t created by someone else. It comes from the heart’s connections with the data, hinting towards the story theme, “Can a heart be born in an existence made of data?â€
Spoiler Show
Pete: Peh, he's nothing but data. He doesn't even have a heart!
Goofy: That's not true! Sora has a heart. It even reached us.
Pete: ...What?
Donald: We've been watching, the whole time. No matter how tough things got, no matter how much danger he was in, Sora kept on fighting to help everybody.
Goofy: He even said he'd fight with us! His feelings, they're so deep, and so happy! That's how... that's how we know for sure! Sora has a heart, and it's inside of us!
Donald: Our connected hearts are our power!
Sora: Connected... hearts...
Pete: Sh- Shut up! Be quiet! That's enough!
Pete: What can yer friendship possibly do?
(He jumps in place again)
Donald: Quaaaacckkkk!
Goofy: Ugghh...!
Sora: Donald! Goofy!
Sora: Stop... Stop it...
Pete: It's all over now!
Sora: STOP!!
(A flash of light fills the screen. When it fades, the damage blocks are gone, and Sora has his keyblade back!)
Sora: ...What? What just happened? This is... my keyblade? (
Donald and Goofy get up and line up with Sora to face Pete)
Pete: What's going on here!? I thought Maleficent destroyed that thing...
Voice: It looks like a new power has emerged from inside you.
(The camera turns to the entrance, revealing the speaker)
Sora: Mickey!
(Mickey enters the room and stands with the party)
Sora: What's going on? What's this new power?
Mickey: I don't know all the details, but... I think something has awakened inside of you. The keyblade is tightly connected to the Power of the Heart. Yet, an old friend told me that the Heart can't be turned into Data. Still, as you came up all this way, we developed a Bond. It might have created something new, something that goes beyond data. I'm sure it's a unique new power that you obtained through the bonds with your friends across the worlds.
Sora: A unique power...
So basically, Ventus >>>> Roxas :]
Finding hearts for Nobodies? Well then they're no better than the Organization!
Its an interesting question, to be sure. I personally think Kingdom Hearts itself will have some role to play in that regard, but only time will tell.
Now now, no need to go into fandom wars. While I find Roxas to be my favorite character in the KH universe (Aside from Master Xehanort), I wouldn't place him above or below Ventus, I'd simply say Roxas =/= Ventus and leave it at that, they both have their perks and flaws.
Also, finding hearts for nobodies isn't inherently an "evil" goal, its the means taken towards such a goal that matters.
Another note to take with Ventus is also that he, according to what we can deduce from Xehanort's reports, the few flashbacks we have in BBS from the times before BBS and partially additional material, has also some distinct differences even from Sora in personality, like being more emotionally vulnerable than Sora due to his screwed childhood.
Even before his darkness was removed Xehanort already noted how incredibly pure and kind Ventus was as a kid, with an enourmous potential. He also pointed out though that he was too kind-hearted for his own good.
Ven's heart was actually very full of light and his darkness relatively small. But the bigger the light the deeper/longer the shadow, that's a saying we got as far back in KH I and what applies here.
While Ven's darkness was small in amount, it was actually deep because Ventus was, beside being very kind, curious and gentle also timid, insecure and without much self-confidence at first. Darkness doesn't need to be hatred or greed, it can also grow on fear.
That was also shown during some of the flashback scenes we see when he trains with Terra and Aqua.
In fact, parts of his inner insecurity can also be still seen during the earlier parts of the game BBS itself and his overreliance on Terra.
His more "Sora"-like qualities manifested slowly over time partly due to his connection with Sora's heart and also because Terra, Aqua and Eraqus cared for him for four years and built up his self-confidence and more upbeat attitude.
If we look at them all together, Roxas got traits and quirks from both Ventus and Sora as well as developing some of his own because he started from zero, like a newborn, only with the appearance of a 14year old.
Out of the three, he is surely the most moody one, quickest to anger and like said, relying on himself.
That he is a separate being in terms of having an own mind is undeniable, yet all of them (Roxas, Xion, Naminé) acquiring (or giving birth to) own hearts is only one possible solution for them. While I would like that personally very much, to see them get a real chance after all they had to go through, we have to keep in mind it's not the only possible solution.
Never meant to exist is only one phrase that doesn't automatically include should not exist, because they clearly developed into something of their own. Ansem the Wise made the same error with his prejudice.
Important is that it has to be done in a way to allow them to live without screwing over the beings they originated from, meaning they can't have any part that is required for a physical existence that belongs to someone else.
As for creating a heart, that theme has been addressed in Re: Coded with Data-Sora, who is rumored to have developed a heart.
See for this Nomura in the Re: Coded Ultimania:
Spoiler Show
Data Sora can newly obtain a legitimate Keyblade during his adventure, but are there changes to the real Keyblade when that happens?
Nomura: No, it’s a data version the entire time. However like with the first Keyblade, it wasn’t created by someone else. It comes from the heart’s connections with the data, hinting towards the story theme, “Can a heart be born in an existence made of data?â€
and some (granted vague) statements from Mickey in Coded itself:
Spoiler Show
Pete: Peh, he's nothing but data. He doesn't even have a heart!
Goofy: That's not true! Sora has a heart. It even reached us.
Pete: ...What?
Donald: We've been watching, the whole time. No matter how tough things got, no matter how much danger he was in, Sora kept on fighting to help everybody.
Goofy: He even said he'd fight with us! His feelings, they're so deep, and so happy! That's how... that's how we know for sure! Sora has a heart, and it's inside of us!
Donald: Our connected hearts are our power!
Sora: Connected... hearts...
Pete: Sh- Shut up! Be quiet! That's enough!
Pete: What can yer friendship possibly do?
(He jumps in place again)
Donald: Quaaaacckkkk!
Goofy: Ugghh...!
Sora: Donald! Goofy!
Sora: Stop... Stop it...
Pete: It's all over now!
Sora: STOP!!
(A flash of light fills the screen. When it fades, the damage blocks are gone, and Sora has his keyblade back!)
Sora: ...What? What just happened? This is... my keyblade? (
Donald and Goofy get up and line up with Sora to face Pete)
Pete: What's going on here!? I thought Maleficent destroyed that thing...
Voice: It looks like a new power has emerged from inside you.
(The camera turns to the entrance, revealing the speaker)
Sora: Mickey!
(Mickey enters the room and stands with the party)
Sora: What's going on? What's this new power?
Mickey: I don't know all the details, but... I think something has awakened inside of you. The keyblade is tightly connected to the Power of the Heart. Yet, an old friend told me that the Heart can't be turned into Data. Still, as you came up all this way, we developed a Bond. It might have created something new, something that goes beyond data. I'm sure it's a unique new power that you obtained through the bonds with your friends across the worlds.
Sora: A unique power...
If you feel that way.
Ah, don't lump them together in one bowl if you don't know the "how".
The actual desire to acquire a heart and become a full existence is in itself not evil.
Why do you think Roxas fought so hard and initially refused to be merged with Sora?
He wanted to be his own existence, in Days even Naminé acknowledged in a conversation with Riku that she was astonished how fervently both Roxas and Xion were struggling to be their own persons.
It is indeed, also because it would delve more into the mystery about what a heart actually is and how can one be born.
If the implications of Coded can be taken literally we might indeed get a very interesting insight and expansion to the series mythology, with or without the actual Kingdom Hearts involved.
I don't see a fandom war here, KevVentus only stated a personal preference, he didn't imply that statement to be universal, at least I didn't read it that way.
It's interesting to see though having MX, probably the biggest monster in the series, as a favorite.
I do admire him for his role as a central villain, yes, that role he fills splendidly, but I cannot and never will gain any sympathy for his actions and views.