Speculation: Ansem SoD and the Two Artificial Kingdom Hearts

[flyingfishstick]

Both Xemnas and Ansem Seeker of Darkness were after artificial versions of Kingdom Hearts. Ansem’s was created from the hearts of worlds and Xemnas’ from the hearts of people. Why go through all the trouble when they are both working together towards forging the X-Blade in order to take control of the real thing? In Xemnas’ case you can just explain it away by pointing out that he used the fake Kingdom Hearts as a ruse in order to trick his subordinates into following him without question. Ansem SOD is a bit harder to explain.

At first I thought the implication was that Ansem lost his memories of his time as Master Xehanort and was going after what he thought was the real Kingdom Hearts on his own accord. Of course, Master Xehanorts’ heart fragment was acting in his subconscious, guiding him so that Ansem’s actions worked in MX’s favor. This could have potentially explained why Xemnas made an appearance in Hollow Bastion durring KHFM. He was waiting to join his Darknesses with the Princesses of Heart under Ansem’s nose. However, it looks like this probably isn’t the case. DDD threw us a curve ball and revealed that Ansem most likely knew all about his life as Master Xehanort and his amnesia was faked.

The problem with this development is that it messes with Ansem’s entire motivation as a villain in KHI. His whole shtick was to gather the PoH, forge the Keyblade of Heart, open the realm of darkness, capture Kingdom Hearts, and submerge everything in darkness….FOR SCIENCE! According to his report, he was supposedly a mad researcher who lost his body because he wanted to see what happened if you let heartless into the heart of a world. I thought the whole point of the memory loss was to get around the fact that Xehanort knows way to much information for Ansem SoD’s plan to make much sense. If he had MX’s knowledge you would think he would know the difference between the real KH and a fake one. Memory loss explained why he had to rediscover heartless and a number of other things in his personal research reports. Most importantly, it explained why he didn’t seem to know he needed the X-Blade in order to control Kingdom Hearts. If he knew it all from the beginning he should have stopped after collecting the Princesses and invited Xemnas and his XIII over to forge the X-Blade. I know this could just be an inconsequential storytelling inconsistency that is meant to be looked over (and if push comes to shove, I can look over it), but I can’t help but feel this might be a major plot point. In short, what do you guys think the purpose of the Kingdom Hearts of Worlds and People’s Hearts were?

---My Two Cents.
I’m sure you guys have heard variations of this before. Perhaps it wasn’t Xehanort who wanted the fake Kingdom Hearts, but a corrupted remnant of Terra, willing to save his friends at any and all costs. It’s possible he didn’t care it was fake and was willing to mow down anyone, including Sora, to get to it. Ansem could potentially even be portrayed as an anti-hero in KHIII. He’s responsible for a lot of destruction and heart-break, but then again so is Riku. The games have been showing parallels between Riku and Xehanort since BBS. They were both kids tired of a monotonous life on an island that felt more to them like a prison than a home. They were both champions of darkness, but thanks to Riku’s friends he was saved before he wondered to far from the light. Hell, Riku shared a body with Ansem for over a year. Maybe this is where these similarities pay off. Maybe Ansem (who is a Xehanort) can be turned (preferably by Riku). Maybe it takes a Xehanort to stop a Xehanort. Ya know, like when Vader kills the Emperor? It seems appropriate given the recent Star Warsy vibe we’ve been getting from the series lately.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Woooo the theorizing has begun. Hopefully the rate at which these are made picks up between now and KH3's release :x

Both Xemnas and Ansem Seeker of Darkness were after artificial versions of Kingdom Hearts. Ansem’s was created from the hearts of worlds and Xemnas’ from the hearts of people.

I wouldn't say that XH's KH was a fake one; that's like saying that KH never left for the RoD. Rather, I'd say it was the real thing, or at least a shadow of its former self, and that the X-Blade simply brings over KH to the RoL.

This could have potentially explained why Xemnas made an appearance in Hollow Bastion durring KHFM.

Or maybe he just wanted to meet Sora. He did use his battle with him to create the data that was Xion's base, after all.

However, it looks like this probably isn’t the case. DDD threw us a curve ball and revealed that Ansem most likely knew all about his life as Master Xehanort and his amnesia was faked.

"Reveal" is such a strong word; there's only so much you can reveal in a 20 second cutscene, everything beyond that is speculation.

In short, what do you guys think the purpose of the Kingdom Hearts of Worlds and People’s Hearts were?

Legit attempts to reach/forge KH, probably because they didn't know of any other method. The only times I've seen XH and Xemnas acknowledge the 7/13 method was when they were time-traveling.

 

[alexis.anagram]

Master Xehanort himself says that he used Maleficent to find the seven hearts of pure light in order to forge the X-Blade, and presumably he's referring to Ansem SoD's work. I think the plan was to simply bring Xemnas and the XIII over as you stated, but Roxas wasn't discovered or even created as a potential vessel until late in the events of KH1 so the Organization wasn't ready at the same time Xehanort's Heartless was (not only that, but Xemnas mentioned most of the Organization members turned out to be unfit for the task at hand). It's also possible (I think?) that Xemnas and Ansem SoD were cooperating with each other to some extent and that Xemnas was simply coming to Hollow Bastion to check on the status of their work. As for why Ansem SoD would move ahead and try to gain access to KH without the X-Blade, who knows. Maybe he just thought he could use the Keyblade of Hearts to accelerate the process, especially seeing as Sora was an unanticipated(?) menace to the plot.

There's also been a lot of speculation going around that Ansem SoD might have his own agenda (provided Terra-Xehanort really didn't lose his memory), and at any rate I think Nomura has implied that Xehanort's Heartless might have more mystery surrounding him (or something like that). I like your theory, but it's not really in character for Terra and as I recall it there's nothing to indicate that Ansem SoD was influenced by or has any relation to Terra's Heart. This is part of why I have a love-hate relationship with the resolution to DDD; it sets up for KH3 nicely and does mostly tie all of the recent games together, but at the expense of almost entirely trashing the established mythos of the series and rewriting a lot of the more human motivations for Ansem SoD and Xemnas into trite, base megalomania. And by doing so, reducing the events of the first three games to merely auxiliary elements in a story that really has nothing to do with any of that because time travel. Bleh.

 

[gelandporn]

We already know what the function of the KH of people's hearts was, it was flat out stated in KH3D. It was basically just a giant Xehanort-converter so that he could have his 13 darknesses.

I wouldn't say that XH's KH was a fake one; that's like saying that KH never left for the RoD. Rather, I'd say it was the real thing, or at least a shadow of its former self, and that the X-Blade simply brings over KH to the RoL.

It's confirmed to be artificial in the DDD glossary:
"We know Xehanort has created two Kingdom Hearts now, both artificially, by amassing enough hearts. One was made from the hearts of worlds, and the other from the hearts of people."

So basically we can establish from this that Ansem was collecting all of the hearts of the worlds taken by the heartless to create his own Kingdom Hearts. Xemnas was collecting people hearts and Ansem was collecting world hearts.

I think that if you want to justify this, the best way you can look at it is that Xehanort was trying to take a shortcut. DDD explained away his attempts to use Ven and Vanitas to forge the X-Blade as him being overly eager/rash in the face of opportunity. So rather than Xehanort thinking he could cut some corners by attempting to create the X-Blade without a full list of ingredients, this time his haste involved him skipping over the X-Blade altogether and using the KoPH. Note what he says in his report:
"The third type of key, the Keyblade of heart, came into existence when the World was reorganized after the Keyblade War. Without this key, Kingdom Hearts is forever beyond a person's reach. Only by gathering seven hearts of pure light--hearts completely devoid of darkness--may one forge a Keyblade of heart and open the door to Kingdom Hearts."

We now know that it's not the only means, but the KoPH was its own viable option and Xehanort certainly likes to explore options through trial and error.

I think Ansem's KH (which can be seen as a dark heart floating behind the DtD) acted as a magnet for all the darkness in the RoD. Opening the door allowed it to pour out, and that would have (in Xehanort's mind) restored the balance between light and darkness. This method may have skipped the Keyblade War altogether. However, the real KH reached out from within the RoD and stopped Ansem.


So the long and short of it is that Xemnas' KH was a part of MX's master plan, but it fell apart and the plan needed to be adjusted. Conversely, Ansem's KH wasn't really a part of the same master plan. Same goal, different route.

 

[Unusual1290]

I don't think the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 was artificial. I think that I was the real thing. And Xehanort's goal was to bring it into the RoL. I believe that Ansem and Xemnas were working together. Ansem's part in the plan was to gather the 7 Princesses of Heart, and Xemnas' part was to gather the 13 Darknesses by using the power of artificial Kingdom Hearts he was creating to separate his heart into 13 pieces. Roxas was used as a backup plan, and Xion was created as another back up plan.

To put into more detail, Ansem's task was to seek out Riku since they knew he was a chosen Keyblade wielder. Gain control over him and use him to destroy Heartless, in which those hearts freed from them would go to the Kingdom Hearts Xemnas was creating. Ansem's other task was to gather the 7 hears of pure light. Sora involvement was unexpected since he was never chosen to wield a Keyblade, and he obtained the Keyblade that was meant for Riku. So Ansem had to get Riku to re-obtain his Keyblade, which he failed. So then it's possible that he created the Keyblade of Heart as a substitute and just destroy Sora and free Kairi's heart. After he failed with that, Sora freed Kairi's heart as well as his own creating his Heartless, resulting in his Nobody Roxas being born. So Xemnas used Roxas as his replacement for Riku and his thirteenth Darkness, but he took extra precautions by meeting Sora and stealing some of his memories to create Xion if Roxas happens to fail as well. After Ansem failed, it seemed that Xemnas just wanted to complete his part of the plan first before trying again at gathering the 7 hearts.

If my theory is correct, i think the only questions that remain are why couldn't either Ansem nor Xemnas use a Keyblade? And why did they need Riku, Roxas, and Xion if they could?

 

[Nayru's Love]

I think Ansem's KH (which can be seen as a dark heart floating behind the DtD) acted as a magnet for all the darkness in the RoD. Opening the door allowed it to pour out, and that would have (in Xehanort's mind) restored the balance between light and darkness. This method may have skipped the Keyblade War altogether. However, the real KH reached out from within the RoD and stopped Ansem.

Something about that seems off. Not only would that mean that there were two KH's in KH1, one of them not even being potentially mentioned until DDD, but how/why would the worlds be forced into a conglomerate? You'd think they'd just stay separate after being swallowed by darkness. Rather, I find it easier to label the real KH as a magnet for the hearts of worlds that "are looking for a comforting light," much like Sora and the hearts in torment. That KH could be labeled artificial because it's still a forced conglomerate.

I like your theory, but it's not really in character for Terra and as I recall it there's nothing to indicate that Ansem SoD was influenced by or has any relation to Terra's Heart.

Actually, I recall Nomura saying that a possible reason why XH visited DI was because of Terra's memories of Riku.

 

[gelandporn]

I don't think the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 was artificial. I think that I was the real thing.

The DDD glossary says in plain terms that it's artificial, so I don't know what to tell you.

Something about that seems off. Not only would that mean that there were two KH's in KH1, one of them not even being potentially mentioned until DDD, but how/why would the worlds be forced into a conglomerate? You'd think they'd just stay separate after being swallowed by darkness. Rather, I find it easier to label the real KH as a magnet for the hearts of worlds that "are looking for a comforting light," much like Sora and the hearts in torment. That KH could be labeled artificial because it's still a forced conglomerate.

Be careful what you're labeling "real" here. Also note the distinction Xehanort makes:

Unlike the Kingdoms brought about forcibly and artificially through the collection of hearts, THIS Kingdom Hearts is a perfect and complete union of ALL the worlds' hearts.

The true Kingdom Hearts is not brought about through the collection of hearts. So either only Ansem's artificial KH was present in KH1, or the artificial KH and the true KH were present. In the former case, I think it could probably be said that Ansem was using the Heartless to consume world hearts and, knowing that the RoD is the place where lost hearts gather, wanted to gain access to the KH he was forming through the DtD.
My proposal about the two Kingdom Hearts was more or less a way to draw parallels to Xemnas' KH (since his was the heart behind the door, would Ansem's also not be the heart behind the door?) as well as a way to try and reconcile how Ansem could not have memory loss and still believe that KH is darkness (perhaps his was darkness, but the true KH interfered).

 

[Nayru's Love]

My proposal about the two Kingdom Hearts was more or less a way to draw parallels to Xemnas' KH (since his was the heart behind the door, would Ansem's also not be the heart behind the door?)

Depends on how these doors are relevant to their respective KH's. I don't know much about the one of Xemnas' KH, but concerning XH's KH, I'd sooner associate the DtD with a real KH than an artificial one (at least when it comes to the idea that both were present in KH1). If only one KH was present in KH1, then XH's KH must've been real to some extent, even if not completely. Like, if Ven's and Vanitas' fused heart could be considered both a complete heart and two connected, but distinguished, hearts (as symbolized by the X-Blade's appearances).

I'd say the parallel between their KH's (and maybe even MX's in BBS, or at least his X-Blade) was that they all were forced conglomerates. You could even say that XH and Xemnas may have inherited MX's hastiness, in that sense.

Slightly unrelated, but I just noticed something rather odd; MX's initial interest in obtaining KH via the DtD. Seems a little "awkward" for him to take on the plan when only beings of darkness can cross the DtD (unless "beings of darkness" includes users of darkness). It's not impossible for it to make sense, but still. Awkward.