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Was Vanitas Norted?



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Face My Fears

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I can't remember if it was confirmed, but was Vanitas norted? Or was he just Vanitas from BbS in a replica body in the present?
 

Dast

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I am not sure if there's a line where it's specifically said that Vanitas was norted but we are told lots of times that all members of the Organization are vessels for a piece of Xehanort's heart, so I think we can be sure that includes Vanitas.
 

Zettaflare

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Out of the new Organization Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Dark Riku, Xion, Terranort, and Vanitas were hearts from the past in Replica bodies. Or in Terranort's case past Terranort's heart in Terra's restored body.

Larxene, Luxord, Marluxia, Saix, and Xigbar were turned into nobodies again to recieve a piece of Xehanort's heart
 

SweetYetSalty

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Out of the new Organization Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Dark Riku, Xion, Terranort, and Vanitas were hearts from the past in Replica bodies. Or in Terranort's case past Terranort's heart in Terra's restored body.

Larxene, Luxord, Marluxia, Saix, and Xigbar were turned into nobodies again to recieve a piece of Xehanort's heart
Xion isn't time traveled is she? Didn't they just recreate her heart from data through the world experiments then stuff it in a replica? They didn't include her in the time travel group, and nothing ever exist her body when switching.

That being said all members should have a piece of Xehanort's heart in them. The real questionable ones are Vexen and Demyx. They have the yellow eyes but do they have a piece of Xehanort in them? And how did they get rid of it if so?
 

Zettaflare

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Xion isn't time traveled is she? Didn't they just recreate her heart from data through the world experiments then stuff it in a replica? They didn't include her in the time travel group, and nothing ever exist her body when switching.

That being said all members should have a piece of Xehanort's heart in them. The real questionable ones are Vexen and Demyx. They have the yellow eyes but do they have a piece of Xehanort in them? And how did they get rid of it if so?
Yeah you're right Xion's heart was re-created instead of coming from the past. Can't believe I missed that.

As for Demyx and Vexen since they were reserve members then they should have had a piece of Xehanort's heart inside of them. Even got his heart back somehow and we don't know about Demyx since they haven't shown him after Xehanort's defeat
 

SweetYetSalty

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Yeah you're right Xion's heart was re-created instead of coming from the past. Can't believe I missed that.

As for Demyx and Vexen since they were reserve members then they should have had a piece of Xehanort's heart inside of them. Even got his heart back somehow and we don't know about Demyx since they haven't shown him after Xehanort's defeat
It's possible Vexen could remove the pieces being a scientist with Ansem and Ienzo's help. They really didn't get into the details of 'norting' So between the other twelve, along with Vexen and Demyx, Xehanort split his heart 14 ways. You'd think that would weaken him or do something to him, but I suppose he's so old he feels nothing. Still it only feels like he only had a grasp on Terra via norting.

I wonder if Young Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas require Xehanort's heart? Shouldn't they already qualify I wonder.
 

Zettaflare

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It's possible Vexen could remove the pieces being a scientist with Ansem and Ienzo's help. They really didn't get into the details of 'norting' So between the other twelve, along with Vexen and Demyx, Xehanort split his heart 14 ways. You'd think that would weaken him or do something to him, but I suppose he's so old he feels nothing. Still it only feels like he only had a grasp on Terra via norting.

I wonder if Young Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas require Xehanort's heart? Shouldn't they already qualify I wonder.
Yeah it is odd that Xehanort splitting his heart had no ill effects on his health or body. I guess he must of had an extremely powerful heart in order to survive such an ordeal.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Yeah it is odd that Xehanort splitting his heart had no ill effects on his health or body. I guess he must of had an extremely powerful heart in order to survive such an ordeal.
I wish this was something that was addressed. Like maybe the reason he doesn't show up at all in KH3 until the end was because he was recovering after splitting his heart so many ways. I suppose the destroyed pieces revert back to him, but it's never really explained. We can only guess with norting.
 

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I can't remember if it was confirmed, but was Vanitas norted? Or was he just Vanitas from BbS in a replica body in the present?
Easy. He was norted because like Ventus his heart was also shattered when they split. He did for Vanitas what Sora did for Ventus basically; recomplete his missing half with a piece of his own heart.
 

Dast

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Still it only feels like he only had a grasp on Terra via norting.
I guess that makes more sense with Terranort's heart coming from the past. Terranort was made when Xehanort put his whole heart into Terra. Other norted members of the Organization like Xigbar only had a piece of his heart so I suppose that's not enough for Xehanort to take control of them like he did with Terra.
 

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Tbh I feel that the question how much or if a character was "norted" or not doesn't really have any relevance anymore because KH III and all its attached story parts completely ignored any gravitas this concept might have had as implied beforehand by DDD.

Except in some throwaway lines by i.e. Larxene "being norted" wasn't even that much present as a plot point anyways and all new Organisation members could apparently still do completely as they pleased without any control or tangible influence from Xehanort at all.
Like, Saix, Demyx and Vexen could plot their "behind-the-scenes"-redemption/atonement plans almost completely unhindered, Xigbar, Vanitas and Luxord were strolling around pursuing their own agendas to quite a degree while Marluxia and Larxene were apparently just chilling around. The only ones shown to be struggling were Terra and Xion and those two were completely opposed to anything both Xehanort and the Organisation planned or wanted from the get-go.

The whole "norting"-process and all the messy consequences implied to be tied to it from DDD was another plotline dropped from KH III in favor of shoehorning in more UX-bait and similar stuff.
 

Chie

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Yeah I was going to say something similar, "norted" isn't actually a thing, at least in the story we see. Maybe if the Org members had won the fight, they would have all had Xehanort's mind in Scala, is my guess. But everyone was just "half xehanort" and it doesn't actually do anything.
 

Dast

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Yeah I was going to say something similar, "norted" isn't actually a thing, at least in the story we see. Maybe if the Org members had won the fight, they would have all had Xehanort's mind in Scala, is my guess. But everyone was just "half xehanort" and it doesn't actually do anything.
It makes me wish there was more explanation of the Replica Xehanorts because they do seem to be linked to the norted Organization members, as they wielded their individual weapons in Scala. My headcanon is that the pieces of Xehanort's heart within each member mixed with their own darkness, so that when they were defeated, a dark heart was formed that inhabited a replica body to make a replica Xehanort.
 

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It makes me wish there was more explanation of the Replica Xehanorts because they do seem to be linked to the norted Organization members, as they wielded their individual weapons in Scala. My headcanon is that the pieces of Xehanort's heart within each member mixed with their own darkness, so that when they were defeated, a dark heart was formed that inhabited a replica body to make a replica Xehanort.
The Replica Xehanorts are one of the most interesting things in KH3 that we'll likely never learn anything more about. They were the ideal Organization XIII and if used better could have had a major impact on the story and lore. Xehanort finally had the perfect vessels to his liking, doing whatever he wanted without question and when adding the powers of the other Organization members he couldn't ask for better pawns.

Edit: I also agree that norting isn't nearly as bad as DDD made it out to be. Several things from DDD did not carry over to KH3 and the consequences of having Xehanort in ones heart was one of them. I don't even know what threat there was to letting Xehanort take Sora as the original 13th vessel.
 
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Honestly, I assumed that what being "Norted" meant wasn't really being possessed by Xehanort per se like what happened to Terra, but having a direct hotline to his hear and thus being more sucetible to using Darkness.

It's basically a hotfix that lets the user control Darkness without proper training with it because Xehanort was already an extremely experienced wielder, like.. it probably means the user won't be consumed by it because the piece of Xehanort in their heart is keeping everything in control, I guess.

Personally, I just assumed it didn't have that much of an impact on the vessels because all of them already had experience dealing with Darkness and such due to their previous life as Nobodies, but its obviously badly written and they never really cover that whole topic properly.

As for Vanitas, he was probably always Norted from the very start of his life, before they even thought about the concept of "Norted".
 

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I like what Noivern says, look at the fight with luxord for example, Xemas gives him an instant powerboost at the cost of...basically nothing. The only other thing is, amping the dorkness inside someone to meet the baseline criteria for the clash between light and dark. Xehanort was a Darkness aligned Keyblade Master, and needed to clash with some strong enough lights. HOW strong isn't clearly parameterized, but that is fine because nothing in KH gets an actual concrete number outside of bullshit MUH SEVEN THIRTEEN TRIO PARALLELS XD obsession. MX clearly had enough dorkness to go around, and that's what splitting his heart among others meant.
 

SweetYetSalty

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"Norted" was a fan term for Xehanort taking over someone's body with his heart. It's why everyone freaked out when it appeared Aqua was "norted" in trailers. BBS showed how difficult it is to fight off Xehanort once he gets in. It was nearly impossible to get him out, and Terra spent a decade in darkness trying to fight off the will of Xehanort.

There is a disconnect between DDD and KH3. DDD makes it perfectly clear the plan is to turn 12 other vessels into Xehanort vessels and turn them into Xehanort himself, similar to what happened to Terra. Sora even asks Xigbar why would he want to turn into somebody else. It was established that it was always body snatching and taking them over. This is why it was considered such a big deal back then. By KH3, norting is basically nonexistent and became the 'darkness powerboost' and instantly became less threatening to the host. Nobody besides Xehanort, Young Xehanort, and Terranort even cared for the grand plan and had their own agendas, or different levels of brainwashing, which made the threat of Xehanort in your heart nowhere near the danger levels that BBS and DDD presented it as.
 

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BBS showed how difficult it is to fight off Xehanort once he gets in. It was nearly impossible to get him out, and Terra spent a decade in darkness trying to fight off the will of Xehanort.

I disagree with this. This is purely from my gaming knowledge and I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimania or one of Nomura's various interviews prove me wrong, but Terra's case was very specific and I don't think even the DDD version of Norted that Sora went through is similar to that.

For one, Xehanort spent the whole BBS cultivating the Darkness in Terra's heart, not only to strenghten his body and his connection to the element itself, but also to make it easier for him to be possessed as he was already seduced by the Darkness, just like what happened to Riku in KH1.

He also had to fight against the wholeness of Xehanort's Heart; not a piece of it like Sora, or his Heartless like Riku.

That being said, I agree with everything else you said. But they barely developed the beings that split from Xehanort, much less going in detail about what being Norted meant.

Xemnas was hinted to be his own being made from Terra and Xehanort through KH2 and Days; a villain, yes, but still his own person. DDD took this one step further by confirming that all Nobodies were able to grow new hearts, something that could have happened to Xemnas as well as he was a unique being as much as Roxas and Xion were.

Yet, this is never discussed on 3. We never have Roxas and Xion confronting Xemnas about who he truly was and how similar they were to him, nor is it ever addressed if Xemnas had a new, separate heart from Xehanort himself (which I believe should have been the case, really. lol)

Just another wasted concept that we'll probably never learn about unless Dark Road touches upon the specifics of how transfering your own heart works.
 

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Xemnas was hinted to be his own being made from Terra and Xehanort through KH2 and Days; a villain, yes, but still his own person. DDD took this one step further by confirming that all Nobodies were able to grow new hearts, something that could have happened to Xemnas as well as he was a unique being as much as Roxas and Xion were.

Yet, this is never discussed on 3. We never have Roxas and Xion confronting Xemnas about who he truly was and how similar they were to him, nor is it ever addressed if Xemnas had a new, separate heart from Xehanort himself (which I believe should have been the case, really. lol)
I thought his death scene implied Xemnas had grown a new heart as Sora says to him 'I know you have a heart' and Xemnas talks about his 'first surge of emotion in years' and the pain of having a heart. Honestly, I thought it was quite a good ending for him, but admittedly it doesn't really follow from anything else about him in the game itself.

Thinking about it, his end contrasts nicely with the Re Mind RAX Sigil stuff (please hear me out). Roxas and Xion are ultimately able to exist because of their connections to each other, represented by the Sigil (It's really poorly executed but the core idea is good). When Xemnas is defeated, he feels 'the emptiness where [his] companions once stood' and his casting them aside and not forming connections left him with 'nothing' and he ceased to exist.
 

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When Xemnas is defeated, he feels 'the emptiness where [his] companions once stood' and his casting them aside and not forming connections left him with 'nothing' and he ceased to exist.
Maybe, instead of splitting Master Xehanort up into three-four "different characters", they could have focused the Xemnas, the AnsemSOD, the other "faces" of Xehanort into one character to make his final defeat mean something. Because introducing Xemnas as the nobody of Ansem (but not the REAL ansem) who is actually Terra possessed by MX but not the Young Xehanort we saw in KHDR, DDD, Blank Points, etc...makes the ending of Ansem pathetic and unnoteworthy

EDIT: the ending of Xemnas* I was so confused by this that I wrote Ansem instead of Xemnas. But hey...we can call him the guy who's NOT Ansem xD
 
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