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Was Vanitas Norted?



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SweetYetSalty

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I disagree with this. This is purely from my gaming knowledge and I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimania or one of Nomura's various interviews prove me wrong, but Terra's case was very specific and I don't think even the DDD version of Norted that Sora went through is similar to that.

For one, Xehanort spent the whole BBS cultivating the Darkness in Terra's heart, not only to strenghten his body and his connection to the element itself, but also to make it easier for him to be possessed as he was already seduced by the Darkness, just like what happened to Riku in KH1.

He also had to fight against the wholeness of Xehanort's Heart; not a piece of it like Sora, or his Heartless like Riku.

That being said, I agree with everything else you said. But they barely developed the beings that split from Xehanort, much less going in detail about what being Norted meant.

Xemnas was hinted to be his own being made from Terra and Xehanort through KH2 and Days; a villain, yes, but still his own person. DDD took this one step further by confirming that all Nobodies were able to grow new hearts, something that could have happened to Xemnas as well as he was a unique being as much as Roxas and Xion were.

Yet, this is never discussed on 3. We never have Roxas and Xion confronting Xemnas about who he truly was and how similar they were to him, nor is it ever addressed if Xemnas had a new, separate heart from Xehanort himself (which I believe should have been the case, really. lol)

Just another wasted concept that we'll probably never learn about unless Dark Road touches upon the specifics of how transfering your own heart works.
That's a good observation between the differences of a piece of his heart vs the entire thing. Xehanort did groom Terra with darkness, however we could look at that as just making sure the vessel had enough darkness for Xehanort's liking, not so much for Terra himself.

In regards to Riku, I would say Ansem SOD was just as bad to Riku as Xehanort was to Terra. Even after Ansem was vanquished, he existed in Riku's heart to the point of Riku taking on his form. It lasted in COM, Days, and KH2 the Riku struggle with Ansem. However I agree that with just the piece of his heart, we don't know how much control it grants. If only it was explained more.

Because we don't truly explore the 13 Seekers of Darkness, we don't know how much about his heart pieces. Clearly it didn't stop half the members from doing whatever they wanted and make their own plans, and turning on the group. I do wish we got more on how norting works and how having a piece of Xehanort in your heart works because as of now it's just wasted potential of something that was once built up as a big deal. Like do Ansem, Xemnas, Young Xehanort, or Terranort need pieces when they already are Xehanort?

I thought his death scene implied Xemnas had grown a new heart as Sora says to him 'I know you have a heart' and Xemnas talks about his 'first surge of emotion in years' and the pain of having a heart. Honestly, I thought it was quite a good ending for him, but admittedly it doesn't really follow from anything else about him in the game itself.

Thinking about it, his end contrasts nicely with the Re Mind RAX Sigil stuff (please hear me out). Roxas and Xion are ultimately able to exist because of their connections to each other, represented by the Sigil (It's really poorly executed but the core idea is good). When Xemnas is defeated, he feels 'the emptiness where [his] companions once stood' and his casting them aside and not forming connections left him with 'nothing' and he ceased to exist.
Bless you for this post, Dast. The Sigil's execution wasn't good but I do appreciate what they were trying to do. And this post makes me see it in a new light and respect it more. Though I'm still gonna make fun of it for my own amusement, lol.
 

Noivern

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In regards to Riku, I would say Ansem SOD was just as bad to Riku as Xehanort was to Terra. Even after Ansem was vanquished, he existed in Riku's heart to the point of Riku taking on his form. It lasted in COM, Days, and KH2 the Riku struggle with Ansem. However I agree that with just the piece of his heart, we don't know how much control it grants. If only it was explained more.
In terms of overlasting damage? They were pretty equal, definitely. But Terra was a Master (in level, at least) and (according to Nomura) around 20 years old, while Riku was just a prideful 15 year old playing with wooden swords.
While Seeker of Darkness was definitely strong (in terms of narrative he should have been roughly as strong as Master Xehanort, honestly, considering he is the incarnation of his Heart, after all?), I'm not sure if he would have caused that much damage to Terra, for one. He did last for a while in Riku even after he got stronger, sure, but he was already inside him at that point so who knows.

But then again, I don't think we'll ever get an explanation for this. Vanitas ran around with a heart made of pure darkness, most likely having part of Xehanort into him as well (true for KH3, but we can assume it was also true for BBS) and he seemed to do pretty much whatever he wanted. He was always loyal to Xehanort but they never bothered to explain how their relationship worked in the first place, but considering how much of a brat he is, I'd like to think he only really wanted to defeat and absorb Ventus and never really planned ahead of that to the point of building a will of his own. He had the power, but not the motivation to do anything with it.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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About the Replica Xehanorts, I'm pretty sure those were the first twelve Replicas that Vexen created before hitting a breakthrough with Repliku and Xion.

Nothing more than puppets, barely human.

They do nothing except attack.
 

SweetYetSalty

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About the Replica Xehanorts, I'm pretty sure those were the first twelve Replicas that Vexen created before hitting a breakthrough with Repliku and Xion.

Nothing more than puppets, barely human.

They do nothing except attack.
I think that's where they came from as well. But I still find them quite interesting despite probably not even having a human form. They can copy the Organizations entire weapon system and Xehanort's no name Keyblade. Also what prevents these guys from growing hearts of their own one day? Nomura has created a interesting concept but so far hasn't expanded on it enough with the Replicas.
 

Dast

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I think that's where they came from as well. But I still find them quite interesting despite probably not even having a human form. They can copy the Organizations entire weapon system and Xehanort's no name Keyblade. Also what prevents these guys from growing hearts of their own one day? Nomura has created a interesting concept but so far hasn't expanded on it enough with the Replicas.
Yeah, no doubt the bodies were those replicas. But what of the hearts. In my headcanon version, Vexen was investigating how to get a heart for the replicas in the Carribbean so that these replicas could 'replace, not just replicate' the other Organization members. I feel like the pieces are there, but no hint it's true.
 

U.N. Owen

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I would assume he was Norted. Void Gear appeared during the Replica Xehanort battle in Scala.
 
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I like what Noivern says, look at the fight with luxord for example, Xemas gives him an instant powerboost at the cost of...basically nothing. The only other thing is, amping the dorkness inside someone to meet the baseline criteria for the clash between light and dark. Xehanort was a Darkness aligned Keyblade Master, and needed to clash with some strong enough lights. HOW strong isn't clearly parameterized, but that is fine because nothing in KH gets an actual concrete number outside of bullshit MUH SEVEN THIRTEEN TRIO PARALLELS XD obsession. MX clearly had enough dorkness to go around, and that's what splitting his heart among others meant.
Exactly. Norting was Xehanort's loophole for lacking 13 keyblade wielders of darkness. "Everyone has part of the heart of a dark keyblade wielder, so that x-blade recipe can suck it." The first 12 replicas weren't human enough for.... reasons that'll never be addressed. He didn't have to nort Vanitas, but he did need to keep him in check since he was essentially a reckless juvenile delinquent, with less chill than even dark riku. While norting can't control Vanitas, it does guarantee an access point for Xehanort to return if things ever went to shit..... for the umpteenth time.

But was Vanitas norted? I... think so?? I remember reading somewhere that Vanitas' eyes were originally red.
 
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I thought his death scene implied Xemnas had grown a new heart as Sora says to him 'I know you have a heart' and Xemnas talks about his 'first surge of emotion in years' and the pain of having a heart. Honestly, I thought it was quite a good ending for him, but admittedly it doesn't really follow from anything else about him in the game itself.

Thinking about it, his end contrasts nicely with the Re Mind RAX Sigil stuff (please hear me out). Roxas and Xion are ultimately able to exist because of their connections to each other, represented by the Sigil (It's really poorly executed but the core idea is good). When Xemnas is defeated, he feels 'the emptiness where [his] companions once stood' and his casting them aside and not forming connections left him with 'nothing' and he ceased to exist.
RAX reappropriated Xemnas' symbol of ownership and incompleteness into a symbol of companionship and feeling whole. Not in a stockholm syndrome way like would've preferred it though. Like a true cult leader, Xemnas wanted them to believe that their only means of salvation and finding meaning to their lives were through him. He branded them, he housed them, he instructed them, he owned them. In ReMind, they took it from him; they no longer associated the recusant's sigil with Xemnas himself. Xemnas was left with, well, nothing.

"We met each other in your organization, but you can and will fuck off all the same. Our symbol, our identities, don't mean what you wanted them to mean. We're complete beings all on our own, with or without you."

A LOT was said through that simple act of taking. That's what good stories do: show, don't tell.
...... However, it was still haphazardly executed since RAX never alluded to their brands before and it muddied Xemnas' comeuppance by not being in base KH3.
 
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