What Exactly IS a Guardian of Light?

[flyingfishstick]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that being destroyed wasn't part of XH's plan.

He was going to have to die at some point if MX was going to return. I’m not saying he died on purpose, but I think Xehanort put Ansem in a position to fail after successfully gathering the 7 PoH. Being a creature of darkness, Ansem would have never been able to take KH even if Sora had not interfered. Ansem was acting as his own person with his own agenda but was manipulated by Xehanort the whole way. Ansem was gathering the PoH so he could enter the RoD and take Kingdom Hearts and Xehanort was using Ansem to gather the PoH so that he could forge the X-Blade and then take Kingdom Hearts.

Don't forget BBS. Even though he was still planning on forging the X-Blade through Ven and Vanitas, he was still setting up his back-up plans.

Right. He sets Maleficent on the path to collect the PoH for him in case his primary attempt failed. He was setting up the plot for DDD back in KHI by living on DI.

Like I said, even the SoD have light within themselves. If we're to assume that Sora's analogy of "deep down inside, there's a light that never goes out" is true from a more literal perspective, then every heart (excluding Vanitas) has light within it. Which goes well with how KH, the heart of all living things, is pure light.

Assuming I’m right (which is questionable), I think it’s likely that what happened to Vanitas could or has happened to each of the darknesses.

I don't recall this at all.

Watch the cut scene “Seven Lights, Thirteen Darknesses”. Granted he is talking about the PoH and the original Organization XIII, he definitely uses the phrases “hearts of pure light” and “my vessels of pure darkness”. If he needed pure hearts the first go around, I don’t know why he wouldn't need them now

 

[Taochan]

Assuming I’m right (which is questionable), I think it’s likely that what happened to Vanitas could or has happened to each of the darknesses.

What? Having his heart split? No, the Darknesses are each either Xehanorts from different points in time or people who are becoming Xehanorts (Saix and Xigbar).

Watch the cut scene “Seven Lights, Thirteen Darknesses”. Granted he is talking about the PoH and the original Organization XIII, he definitely uses the phrases “hearts of pure light” and “my vessels of pure darkness”. If he needed pure hearts the first go around, I don’t know why he wouldn't need them now

You're paraphrasing his quote. Skip to 15:15

[video=youtube;T9AccKKNN54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T9AccKKNN54[/video]

The PoH were a different path to Kingdom Hearts than the seven Lights and thirteen Darknesses.

 

[Nayru's Love]

He was going to have to die at some point if MX was going to return. I’m not saying he died on purpose, but I think Xehanort put Ansem in a position to fail after successfully gathering the 7 PoH. Being a creature of darkness, Ansem would have never been able to take KH even if Sora had not interfered. Ansem was acting as his own person with his own agenda but was manipulated by Xehanort the whole way. Ansem was gathering the PoH so he could enter the RoD and take Kingdom Hearts and Xehanort was using Ansem to gather the PoH so that he could forge the X-Blade and then take Kingdom Hearts.

When you think back at it, XH's and Xemnas' methods of obtaining KH are almost exactly the same as MX's original plans. MX wrote of obtaining KH via the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart and of obtaining KH via the forced collection of worlds' hearts.

So, it's plausible that their ambitions may have rooted back to MX's knowledge in some form.

Right. He sets Maleficent on the path to collect the PoH for him in case his primary attempt failed. He was setting up the plot for DDD back in KHI by living on DI.

Nomura implied that his reasonings for visiting DI during KH1 may have been rooted to Terra's memories of Riku.

Assuming I’m right (which is questionable), I think it’s likely that what happened to Vanitas could or has happened to each of the darknesses.

Heart split? That's a lot of negativity involved. Meaning, a lot of Unversed.

Watch the cut scene “Seven Lights, Thirteen Darknesses”. Granted he is talking about the PoH and the original Organization XIII, he definitely uses the phrases “hearts of pure light” and “my vessels of pure darkness”.

He doesn't clarify a connection between his need of 7 GoL and the 7 PoH, he just said that Maleficent's schemes were his doing. For all we know, he could've been talking about his back-up plan.

As for "pure darkness," he said "fill them with pure darkness." Assuming said vessels start off with even just a little bit of light, the final results wouldn't be "pure darkness."

If he needed pure hearts the first go around, I don’t know why he wouldn't need them now

The original method represented equality. Considering how the new method involves more darknesses than lights, I think it's fair to assume that the rules have changed there.

 

[flyingfishstick]

When you think back at it, XH's and Xemnas' methods of obtaining KH are almost exactly the same as MX's original plans. MX wrote of obtaining KH via the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart and of obtaining KH via the forced collection of worlds' hearts.

So, it's plausible that their ambitions may have rooted back to MX's knowledge in some form.

I’m arguing that Ansem and Xemnas were unknowingly working together to forge the X-Blade due to Xehanort’s influence, while they were simply trying to take control of Kingdom Hearts for their own purposes using incorrect methods. Alternatively, it could be that Xemnas was aware of Xehanort’s master plan. If physical appearance is an indicator of the influence of a Xehanort heart, then Xemnas would be the one under the most influence. Ansem and Xemnas both had amber eyes, but only Xemnas had the pointed ears. He could have been monitoring Ansem’s progress throughout KHI, explaining why he was present in Hollow Bastion.

Nomura implied that his reasonings for visiting DI during KH1 may have been rooted to Terra's memories of Riku.

Didn’t he cast Kairi out to the lanes between in hopes that it would lead him to the Keyblade? I think he arrives there because that’s where she led him.

Heart split? That's a lot of negativity involved. Meaning, a lot of Unversed.

They introduced the unversed and the concept of ripping out someone’s light, so it's only natural that they do something with it further down the line. You don’t introduce a concept like that and just sweep it under the rug. The XIII Seekers Darknesses AND THEIR ARMY OF UNVERSED!!

He doesn't clarify a connection between his need of 7 GoL and the 7 PoH, he just said that Maleficent's schemes were his doing. For all we know, he could've been talking about his back-up plan.

Ansem gathering the PoH and Xemnas gathering XIII vessels was one of his back up plans.

As for "pure darkness," he said "fill them with pure darkness." Assuming said vessels start off with even just a little bit of light, the final results wouldn't be "pure darkness."

You could be right. I still think it would be interesting and extremely cruel on Xehanort’s part to rip the light from their hearts. Then again, that would probably result in two beings so that may or may not be good for the story.

The original method represented equality. Considering how the new method involves more darknesses than lights, I think it's fair to assume that the rules have changed there.

Yes, the original plan in BBS represented equality. I think the main problem here is that you think that Xemnas and Ansem were simply after KH and I think that they thought they were going after KH, but were being manipulated by the Xehanort heart within them to set up for a second attempt at forging the X-Blade. The third attempt begins with DDD and is ongoing.

 

[Nayru's Love]

I’m arguing that Ansem and Xemnas were unknowingly working together to forge the X-Blade due to Xehanort’s influence, while they were simply trying to take control of Kingdom Hearts for their own purposes using incorrect methods. Alternatively, it could be that Xemnas was aware of Xehanort’s master plan. If physical appearance is an indicator of the influence of a Xehanort heart, then Xemnas would be the one under the most influence. Ansem and Xemnas both had amber eyes, but only Xemnas had the pointed ears. He could have been monitoring Ansem’s progress throughout KHI, explaining why he was present in Hollow Bastion.

I hate to bring up another topic that may be fitting in the unfortunate way...but XH was the time-traveler who set up the SoD plan. :v

(On a sidenote, I'm impressed you managed to notice something as unnoticeable as XH's ears. Not a lot of people can find that)

Didn’t he cast Kairi out to the lanes between in hopes that it would lead him to the Keyblade? I think he arrives there because that’s where she led him.

Huh, forgot about that little tidbit. Well now we got two reasons lol

They introduced the unversed and the concept of ripping out someone’s light, so it's only natural that they do something with it further down the line. You don’t introduce a concept like that and just sweep it under the rug. The XIII Seekers Darknesses AND THEIR ARMY OF UNVERSED!!

I don't doubt that the Unversed will return, but to say that all the Xehanorts are capable of summoning them is the same as saying that, all this time, all of the Xehanorts across time had this ability.

Ansem gathering the PoH and Xemnas gathering XIII vessels was one of his back up plans.

The PoH was his back-up plan, the 13 SoD was Plan A.

Yes, the original plan in BBS represented equality. I think the main problem here is that you think that Xemnas and Ansem were simply after KH and I think that they thought they were going after KH, but were being manipulated by the Xehanort heart within them to set up for a second attempt at forging the X-Blade. The third attempt begins with DDD and is ongoing.

Well then that brings into question, what was the point of the KH of Peoples' Heart.

 

[Zettaflare]

13 darknesess vs 7 lights. Did nomura have this planned out or did he make this up when he was developing kh3d?

 

[AdrianXXII]

13 darknesess vs 7 lights. Did nomura have this planned out or did he make this up when he was developing kh3d?

I have the feeling seeing that these numbers have appeared quite frequently in the series he's probably had this idea for a while.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I hate to bring up another topic that may be fitting in the unfortunate way...but XH was the time-traveler who set up the SoD plan. :v

(On a sidenote, I'm impressed you managed to notice something as unnoticeable as XH's ears. Not a lot of people can find that)

There has to be some unknown reason why he knows these things. The RF having knowledge of things that happen in his future contradicts what has been established about time travel. The future is unknowable, even if you exist in the past. DDD left out a pretty big piece of the puzzle that’s kind of throwing everything out of whack

I don't doubt that the Unversed will return, but to say that all the Xehanorts are capable of summoning them is the same as saying that, all this time, all of the Xehanorts across time had this ability.

I guess extracting the light from the seekers of darkness is dumb. If they wanted to bring back the unversed, I’m sure they’ll just resurrect Vanitas or something. If he can fill multiple worlds with unversed on his own, having XIII of him would be overkill.

The PoH was his back-up plan, the 13 SoD was Plan A.

As far as I know, plan A was Ventus vs. Vanitas. That failed, so he split himself into heartless and nobody in order to gather 7 lights and 13 darknesses, but Sora stopped him. His third plan was this time travel nonsense. He sets up plan B while he is working on plan A and plan C was set up from the beginning simply by existing in the right places.

Well then that brings into question, what was the point of the KH of Peoples' Heart.

Honestly, I don’t know. The best I can come up with is that it was to convince the other members of Organization XIII that progress was being made. To keep them happy while he worked on fitting them with Xehanort hearts.

__
You could right about the lights not being the PoH this go around. Unlike last time, everyone involved will be Keyblade wielders. Maybe that makes up for the fact that not all of the lights have a pure heart. Apparently, having a pure heart of darkness was never a requirement to begin with. I guess the series has shown us that there are multiple ways to forge the X-Blade and Xehanort’s going to try them all.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i802MxqOg4E
you should watch this again. It basically spells out in this video that Xehanort is after the Princesses of Heart and needs them to forge the X-Blade. "To protect the seven pure hearts, we will need seven lights strong enough to stand against the darkness." Maybe you guys interpret this differently?

 

[Taochan]

EDIT: Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance: Secret Ending Reconnect Kingdom Hearts - YouTube
you should watch this again. It basically spells out in this video that Xehanort is after the Princesses of Heart and needs them to forge the X-Blade. "To protect the seven pure hearts, we will need seven lights strong enough to stand against the darkness." Maybe you guys interpret this differently?

Thus, even if we deliberately avoid finding our seven lights to avert another Keyblade War Xehanort will still target the seven princesses in order to forge the X-blade.

Basically, either they find seven Keyblade wielders aligned with light in order to give themselves a fighting chance or they let MX go after the PoH. It's an either or situation. MX can use seven Keyblade wielders or he can use the seven Princesses. He does not need both.

 

[kupo1121]

Clashing with the GoL will not forge the X-Blade because most of the members are not hearts of pure light. The PoH are the lights that they are guarding. Remember that just because Kairi has a keyblade doesn't mean she is one of the guardians.

While this is true, why are their only 7 GoL? I mean, why not have 63 different GoL's and assign 9 per PoH? I mean, who says that each PoH can only have 1 protector, no more (hence there being 7 GoL)? Certainly MX won't play fair (he already has 13 plus all the heartless and with Xemnas, nobody as well) so why would each PoH only have to have 1 protector? That is what makes me think the 7 GoL don't have anything to do with protecting the PoH

 

[flyingfishstick]

Basically, either they find seven Keyblade wielders aligned with light in order to give themselves a fighting chance or they let MX go after the PoH. It's an either or situation. MX can use seven Keyblade wielders or he can use the seven Princesses. He does not need both.

Meaning he can forge the X-Blade by pitting his 13 darknesses against the GoL or use the PoH?

 

[Taochan]

Meaning he can forge the X-Blade by pitting his 13 darknesses against the GoL or use the PoH?

Yes, he needs either or. He doesn't need both.

The seven Keyblade wielders of Light don't need to have Pure Hearts of Light, btw.