@Gandalf-the-Wise Hi Sorry for not responding to you earlier but I'll explain my reasonings for Lilo & Stitch, Jungle Cruise and Wreck-It Ralph.
For why I want Lilo & Stitch in KHIV over Moana, well personally I doubt the movie is 100% done, sure it only covered the events of Stitch escaping the Galactic Federation in BBS, but what about the rest of the movie's events and franchise? I still would like to see Stitch and his homeworld appear in a future KH game along with collecting the different experiments across the worlds and the first official appearance of Agent Pleakely (given that he only appeared as an unfinished model), plus it could tie in with Stitch's connections with Terra. Ventus and Aqua.
Lastly, from the vast majority of you, I don't think the events of the Lilo & Stitch movie and franchise happened between
BBS and the original KH game perhaps Stitch could've crashed into Radiant Garden or some other original world where he learned about Ohana, Friendship and the difference of right and wrong. On top of that outside of gameplay and Jiminy's Journal, Stitch has never been referred to as "Stitch" or hinted to have ever visited Lilo's world prior to KH2. So all of that can easily be retconned as it's not really a part of the story along with the fact that time flows differently in the Disney worlds, lastly none of the characters that reside in Radiant Garden (mainly Leon) never call him Stitch.
The only similarity between Lilo & Stitch and Moana, is as most of you say it they're set on a Tropical setting only with the former set in the present day Hawaii and the latter film set 20,000 years ago in the Polynesian islands. I agree Moana has more relevance and recency than Lilo & Stitch which seems fairly likely they will choose this over Lilo & Stitch, however, Nomura and his team or no strangers when it comes to choosing Disney worlds for the different KH games cause while they do choose them for following factors:
- Which Disney or Pixar films do they want in the game as worlds.
- The themes that the specific Disney or Pixar film have in common to the theme of the specific KH game (e.g. Friendship, Trust, Connections, Promises, etc.)
- The Story the world can offer
- The gameplay value and environment that the world can offer.
- Variety
- Disney giving Requests and suggestions to which Films they want to see added in the game to Nomura and the team (e.g. Big Hero 6 in KH3)
They sometimes go way beyond and choose worlds:
- You'd likely to expect on the specific game
- You did not see that one coming (e.g. Space Paranoids, Country of the Musketeers, Monstropolis, San Fransokyo)
I'd be surprised if Moana would end up being a world in the next KH game instead of KHIV, cause Moana's journey on restoring the Heart of Te Fiti and the Islands decaying/dying due to Maui taking the Heart, do somewhat mirror the first KH game when Sora goes on his Journey to fight the darkness, plus I could see some good fun bonding moments and interactions between Moana and Kairi and/or Sora.
For Jungle Cruise most definitely this would be another Live-action Disney film to joining the KH franchise after Pirates and Tron, along with Sora, Donald, and Goofy's interactions with Frank Wolff. It will come down to when the film comes out in Japan and if Nomura and his team want to include it for the next KH game (specifically KHIV), but hey
Tron: Legacy came out in 2010 while
Dream Drop Distance was still in development and eventually became a word at the last minute in
DDD 2 years after the film came out. Even
Big Hero 6 got included in
Kingdom Hearts III just a year after its movie came out in 2014
Honestly even to this day (just like with
Wreck-It Ralph). I honestly perplexed on why this film didn't appear as a world in KH3 and why Stitch was ONLY just a link summon instead, given that Simba and Mushu were summons for Sora in the first game before we visited their actual homeworlds in
Kingdom Hearts II.
For
Wreck-It Ralph, I could see that film and Game Central Station be a world for the next Kingdom Hearts Game centering on Kairi, Riku and Sora over KHIV
Now you may be asking how are they going to have Game Central Station if the story events of the world are currently happening right now in
Union χ according to Brain himself when he linked GCS to the data Daybreak Town and that GCS is not linked to the future or is some data world projection from the past or future from the Book of Prophecies?
One possibility is that it be reminiscent to the Tron worlds (Space Paranoids/The Grid) in previous KH games where at some unknown point in time before or after the story events of
Union χ (depending on how Where they handle Wreck-It Ralph)
Game Central Station (including Niceland, Hero's Duty, Sugar Rush and the inhabitants of those games) could've been copied into data and is put in either the Hollow Bastion computer in Radiant Garden or somewhere in Twilight Town (Old Mansion, Taito Arcade Building, etc.) so that Sora or anyone can visit Game Central Station and the games GCS is connected to. The idea is far-fetched, and I highly doubt it's ever going to happen when compared to Space Paranoids/The Grid, but it's something that is worth considering. I honestly can envision as if it reenacts the first film instead of an original story so I could see Sora, Riku, and Kairi interacting with the cast, especially Ralph and Vanellope, along with having a Boss fight against King Candy.
Still salty that Ralph was not included as a world in KH3, and it wouldn't be surprising if Wreck-it Ralph was actually one of the worlds Nomura and his team has chosen during the development of KH3 but was scrapped very late in production when they heard that Disney was doing a sequel to
Wreck-It Ralph (
Ralph Breaks the Internet), which is why he ended up as a link summon in the final game, and why
Wreck-It Ralph became the Union χ world. Personally, I going, to be honest, I feel that Dark Riku should've worked better as the antagonist for
Wreck-It Ralph than Big Hero 6 especially his mentioning of "Heart out of Data" I don't even recall the original movie of
Big Hero 6 talk about "Data" when compared to the Tron films (original and Legacy) and Wreck-It Ralph which seems to have more mentioning of Data than
Big Hero 6 .
Honestly, It makes me more curious and raises more questions about what becomes of the
Wreck-It Ralph world following its story's conclusion in Union χ
and whether it would retell the events of the movie once again for the next KH game?
I'd prefer if they went the route where it's a loose retelling of the film instead of doing an original story or jump into
Ralph Breaks the Internet as literally Sora NEVER met nor encountered Wreck-It Ralph before.
Zootopia and Raya seem to be shoe-ins for KHIV cause as I've seen in the numbered titles they normally choose the more recent films that are 2-3 or 5-8 years old so depending on when KHIV comes out (I expect to be 2022/2023), the worlds Nomura and his team want in the game, and Disney givin requests to them. Plus the world's environments and the party members could be unique for Sora to have in his party (Nick Wilde, Judy Hopps, and Raya).
Hi
@DizneyXBirds95 , how are you? My apologies, took a small break from here. Good to be back. I have quite a bit to address so here we go. Get your popcorn and drink ready lol.
You do bring up some valid points about Lilo and Stitch. We haven't fully experienced everything that happened in the movie yet, and could still come to fruition for future titles. Similar with Hercules, we met Herc many times in the series before finally experiencing the third act of the film in part three. Stitch could be the same way, playing through the middle and ending portions of his movie. Also certain we will have a rematch with Gantu eventually. The question really isn't if a Lilo and Stitch world will happen, more of when it will. Not saying for sure this will be confirmed to happen, but I have this vibe that it will be included in a side game way before Kingdom Hearts 4 is released.
I say that more so now with the rising popularity Moana is receiving, and how much more important it would be to include her in the game/story as a future Princess of Heart. The similar island/ocean settings, the potential mini-games that Stitch would have too like a surfing mini-game, fresh ideas for boss battles with Tamatoa and Te Ka, Moana as a brand new party member, The message of the Moana film having similar themes to that of Kingdom Hearts, etc. Many of these factors is what supports my reasoning behind why I think Moana is more of a "main numbered" game material.
Though I could be wrong, as most of the original Disney princesses worlds were used for a side game (Birth by Sleep) like Cinderella, Snow White, and Sleeping Beauty. I suppose it all does come down to: what story Nomura wants to tell, and what Disney deems worthy of being in the game, and if those two could reach some sort of middle ground. Still, I think I will be sticking with Moana on this one. I do have a theory:
I have a feeling every Princess in this shot has an important role to play in the future, and are indeed the new Princesses of Heart along with Kairi. This has me pondering that it might be a foreshadowing Easter egg that's invisible in plain sight. As you notice; Elsa, Anna, and Rapunzel are apart of this group whom are all confirmed to be in the new POH group. Tiana and Moana could be among the others. Vanellope could be an unexpected one like Alice was or they might save the final POH spot for someone else (maybe the Nameless Star?).
I am open to the idea of Jungle Cruise being included for KHIV. It checks a few things off the list:
1. New popular Live-Action film (honestly live-action films being in Kingdom Hearts is apart of it's charm now since KH2. Wonder how more realistic they would make Sora in this.)
2. A jungle setting
3. A river setting
4. James Wolff (The Rock) fighting by your side as a party member, however Emily Blunt's character looks quite capable too so maybe both of them end up being your party members so even better. It would be the equivalent of teaming up with both Indiana Jones and Lara Croft at the same time.
5. Operating the boat on the river could be a fun mechanic akin to the pirates ship in the Caribbean, and could have some fun river mini games to go with it like maybe dodging hippos, lions, snakes, etc.
6. A variety of areas to explore: A small town, the docking bay/pier, in the jungle, on the river (being on the boat), swimming underneath the river (like in the Caribbean), caves, the Tree of Life.
7. Could have interesting story to tell referring to certain overlaying themes like Connections, Trust, and Promises.
Now onto Wreck It Ralph. I concur with your views on Ralph's world not being included for KH3. It should of been in the game. With it's connections to Union X it further convinces me that Ralph's world will have an integral role to play in KHIV. I also agree on that it could be treated like how Space Paranoids was in KH2. The potential of the story it can tell is much greater than to simply be reserved for a side story. Some plot twists concerning the Foretellers, Xigbar, and the Master of Masters could be revealed in this world. Ralph's story could also contribute towards themes of Trust, Connections, Promises, Friendship, etc. Ralph's world has tons to offer as far as a variety of different environments go, boss battles including against King Candy, and a plethora of mini-games (shooter game with bugs, racing game in candy land, 8-bit platforming in Ralph's game). The replay value of this world is tremendous, containing hours of bonus post-main story gameplay. With all of that being said, I think Wreck It Ralph has a higher chance of being developed for KHIV. If something like Big Hero 6, which is a far less popular property than Ralph, can make it in as a world in KHIII, I see no reason as to why Ralph can't receive the "main game" treatment.
Now for Zootopia. I completely underestimated the popularity of this film. The fan art I googled speaks for itself.
After hearing about it here in these forums I decided to give it a quick viewing myself. It is an enjoyable movie. I am more partial to the idea of having it included in KHIV. I am beginning to believe that if a "Metropolis" city type of world is to be included in KHIV, they may just axe Incredibles altogether and just have Zootopia be the full on huge city/suburban area world for KHIV. Zootopia has surpassed Incredibles in terms of popularity in recent years (probably also due to poor reception of the Incredibles sequel). Between being an Academy Award Winning film (over Moana), a popular song by the amazing Shakira (over 600 million views for crying out loud), and is in talks of developing a sequel very soon, makes this a likely entry for KHIV. There is of course plenty of other things to consider,
1. The diversity of the world. A modern day city setting ruled by animals, and it has different sections/areas that SDG, Judy Hopps, and Nick Wilde could visit via train like Tundra Town, The Burrows, Rainforest District, and Sahara Square giving it further variety in the visual department.
2. The potential in the mini-game department. Solving mysterious clues detective style to earn different badges and other items, doing parking meter mini-games, etc.
3. As far as boss battles go it most likely will come down to fighting a heartless boss as I believe Bellwether will be relegated to a role similar to Randall's in KH3. Unless you get a mini boss fight with her first before the main Heartless or Nobody boss shows up. Maybe it could be her Heartless or Nobody.
4. We could have an amusing scene of only Sora transforming to blend in while Goofy and Donald just remain the same.
It's an interesting theory referring to how they choose movies that come out anywhere between 2-8 years for their numbered games. Yet there are plenty of exceptions to that rule. Wonderland, Monstro, and Neverland are all derivative of films that were released in the 1940s and 1950s, yet they were included in the first Kingdom Hearts game. Kingdom Hearts 2 had Tron which is a product of the 1980s, well exceeding the 2-8 year span. Not to mention Timeless River that is a good 77 years before it's inclusion in KHII. Unless this a new rule the current Disney establishment is enforcing, I don't see why we still can't have our surprise classic Disney entry in a main numbered title.
For Gargoyles and Tangled the series Nomura has to speak with the showrunners of the shows themselves If they want to add them and that requires back and forth conversations and traveling alo g with them being aware of the actual shows themselves.
And like I said with Tangled I do have know if we're returning to that world for KHIV
Finally come to the last part. You know the old saying, "never say never". Of course including Gargoyles, the Tangled series, or any other Disney property is going to require going through the proper channels and negotiate terms on what direction to take it in the story. Also can't forgot the most important part, how it would benefit everyone on a more profitable merit. If the rumors of the development of the Gargoyles reboot or sequel really ring true, this could certainly be one avenue to help advertise the product and encourage people's interest in the franchise again. It has been not only my dream, but also many other Gargoyles fans and Kingdom Hearts fans alike, to finally have this crossover become a reality. It came close a few years ago, maybe there is still time to salvage it. If it unfortunately doesn't make it in KHIV, then I would accept defeat with grace and that dream dies forever...I am praying that won't be the case. If not an entire world, at least have Goliath (voiced by the great Keith David himself) team up with SDG in an original world similar to how Beast did it in KH1. Though I would much prefer an entire Gargoyles world, but we shall see.
Gargoyles does have plenty to offer:
1. Diversity in worlds. Sure it's mainly a city world, but different as it has a gritter tone to it and is inhabited by humans instead of animals like in Zootopia. Not to mention there is the Castle on top of Xanatos' building, and can go explore the island of Avalon which is the opposite side of the world. So you have both Manhattan (including the streets, the clock tower with the huge library inside, the old castle, inside xanatos' building including his laboratories) and Avalon (island/beach area, enchanted forest, another castle) to explore for more variety.
2. Party members can be Goliath and Elisa Maza. Noticing a potential pattern with male/female duos as party members for KHIV (Judy Hopps/Nick Wilde, Moana/Maui, Tiana/Naveen, Ralph/Vanellope, Frank Wolff/Lily Houghon, Goliath/Elisa,) Could play into a major theme which brings me to -
3. The themes Gargoyles can contribute to KHIV including the usual like Trust, Connections, etc. Also heavier, more mature oriented subjects such as Companionship, Vengeance (Demona is an obvious one), Redemption (Xanatos and Goliath eventually put aside their differences for the greater good), Acceptance, Responsibilities (like protecting others whether it's innocent people or your loved ones or both) etc.
4. The boss fights would all be glorious. Dueling with Xanatos along with the steel clan, Demona, Maybe as well throw in Macbeth too since he has the same voice actor as Cassim, Aladdin's father (John Rhys-Davies). Perhaps even include Oberon as an optional boss for extra post game material.
5. This world also works as both a superhero world and a monster world blended together.
The question has never been "Can Gargoyles work in KH?", more like "Will it be considered ever again?" With all the underlying themes Gargoyles has going for it, it is ripe for an entry in KH, more so KHIV. If things like Tron and Pirates of the Caribbean can work in KH, I certainly don't see why Gargoyles cannot either.
Kingdom Hearts IV worlds
Returning
Agrabah (Aladdin)
Arendelle (Frozen)
Kingdom of Corona (Tangled)
Toy Box (Toy Story)
Hundred Acre Wood (Winnie the Pooh)
New
Game Central Station/Niceland/Cy Bug Sector/Candyland (Wreck-it Ralph)
Mystical Bayou (Princess and the Frog)
Motunui (Moana)
Savanna Central (Zootopia)
Amazon River (Jungle Cruise)
City of Stone
/Avalon (Gargoyles)