Xehanort's Destiny in KH3

[D.D.D]

I'll always remember this one quote from my creative writing class teacher: "The villain is the hero of his own story.". Like others have said, MX sees himself as the hero and Sora as the villian. He probably thinks Sora is selfish for trying to stop his plans of returning balance to the universe and making everyone himself, thus ending all conflict.

But then there's the other side of the coin; Sora sees himself as the hero and MX as the villain. He thinks MX is selfish for trying to become a God and stealing others' personalities and making them the same as his own.

So who's right and who's wrong? Neither, it just depends on opinion. But when you add in the situations Sora and Xehanort were both put in, it gets even more complicated.

Sora never asked for the Keyblade and probably would've rather stayed on DI for the rest of his life. But here comes Xehanort, in his many different forms, messing with the entire universe. Sora, being one of the only remaining Keyblade Wielders able to fix everything besides the very busy Mickey, gets thrown into a desperate search for his friends and a long series of adventures to stop Xehanort.
Then Xehanort has the balls to mess with his Nobody, his friends, and even himself to the point where he even tried to steal his body (the whole DDD thing, I mean).

But then we have Xehanort, a youth who is destined to turn into a crazed madman and really has no choice in the matter because his older self already decided that for him. Xehanort wanted balance in the universe and thought that the best way for this to happen was to make everyone himself.
And we don't even know why he wanted to see another Keyblade War. Perhaps it was to know how to prevent another inevitable one from coming. Sure, it'd take away the lives of some people, but he might see that it's a small number it compared to the amount of lives that would be lost in the almost inevitable Wars that might come after.
But then comes a boy who knows nothing of the reasons for his plans, and is driven by the loss and tragedies of those around him and is told that Xehanort must be stopped. So, Xehanort thinks he's just another kid he has to get rid of.

I mean, Xehanort never really went after Sora until Sora went after him. And Sora went after him because he went after his friends. Xehanort went after Sora's friends because he needed them to complete his goals.


But that's the problem. We can't really say who is at fault because we can't 100% say that Xehanort's goals are entirely bad. The stuff he does to get there is horrible, but is the end result worth it?

That's a matter of opinion, which cannot be right or wrong. Thus, Sora is not entirely good and Xehanort is not entirely evil unless you think so, and even then it does not make them entirely bad or good really because it's just that; an opinion.

 

[Izayoi]

xehanort isn't inherently evil, that's known for sure. the funny part is, compared to the way eraqus acted in BBS, he's definitely the nicer guy.

 

[D.D.D]

xehanort isn't inherently evil, that's known for sure. the funny part is, compared to the way eraqus acted in BBS, he's definitely the nicer guy.

Well yeah, I mean he treated Ven as if he was a tool, too. Xehanort was like, "I'm going to use you to make the X-Blade and you gotta deal with it.". And then Eraqus was all like, "Xehanort wants to use you to make the X-Blade so I'm gonna destroy you and you gotta deal with it.".

So Ven gets caught in the middle with a sucktastic fate no matter who gets to him first. Thankfully, Terra saved the day. Or at least gave him more time to 'live' before Vanitas was all like, "I'm going to fuse with you to make the X-Blade so do it or shatter your own heart and you gotta deal with it.".

 

[billyzanesucks]

Wasn't Eraqus only trying to lock Ven's memories again? I think that's what it said in the Chronicles.

 

[Izayoi]

in the game he was like "fuck darkness that shit aint no good in any form" and tries to kill ven

 

[RoadtoDawn]

Well yeah, I mean he treated Ven as if he was a tool, too. Xehanort was like, "I'm going to use you to make the X-Blade and you gotta deal with it.". And then Eraqus was all like, "Xehanort wants to use you to make the X-Blade so I'm gonna destroy you and you gotta deal with it.".

So Ven gets caught in the middle with a sucktastic fate no matter who gets to him first. Thankfully, Terra saved the day. Or at least gave him more time to 'live' before Vanitas was all like, "I'm going to fuse with you to make the X-Blade so do it or shatter your own heart and you gotta deal with it.".

Do I sense a LoK fan in there somewhere?

If we have to acknowledge the creative writing plug, then even with all that, Eraqus was still the good guy. He just wasn't as polite as Xehanort. You can't deny that Xehanort did WAY more lying than Eraqus did, and that what Eraqus did he did because he believed doing so would save more people than it would hurt. Unless you're of the sociopathic mindset, that's what we generally consider a heroic thing. (yeah yeah, Xehanort thought he was helping more people than he was hurting too. WRONG. Xehanort would have been using that as a COVER, but I really don't think he actually cared about anyone. It's all a power struggle which he probably believes would in the end give him the power to save a lot more people than he was harming...WAY WAY WAY down the road to the point that he didn't actually have to worry about his conscience)

 

[D.D.D]

Do I sense a LoK fan in there somewhere?

If we have to acknowledge the creative writing plug, then even with all that, Eraqus was still the good guy. He just wasn't as polite as Xehanort. You can't deny that Xehanort did WAY more lying than Eraqus did, and that what Eraqus did he did because he believed doing so would save more people than it would hurt. Unless you're of the sociopathic mindset, that's what we generally consider a heroic thing. (yeah yeah, Xehanort thought he was helping more people than he was hurting too. WRONG. Xehanort would have been using that as a COVER, but I really don't think he actually cared about anyone. It's all a power struggle which he probably believes would in the end give him the power to save a lot more people than he was harming...WAY WAY WAY down the road to the point that he didn't actually have to worry about his conscience)

Yes. Yes I am.

Yeah, Eraqus is still a good guy. I mean, he loved TAV as his own children. Personally he's one of my favorite characters. Even with his attack on Ventus he realized it was wrong, it just took fighting his own "son" to come to that point.

See, that's the thing; we don't know if Xehy is really trying to make the universe better or he's just a big fat meanie who's in it for himself. Either way, he's an amazing character, however good or bad he is. I'm not entirely convinced that he's trying to reach what he thinks are good goals. In fact, I'd rather believe that he's just a power hungry geezer who trashes anyone who gets in his way. I think it'd make him more awesome if he was just in it for himself.

At least, I don't want Xehanort at the end to be all, "I was just trying to do good and you shouldn't kill me!". If he really is in it for himself, I want him to stay that way until the very end.

 

[Smithee]

Yes. Yes I am.

Yeah, Eraqus is still a good guy. I mean, he loved TAV as his own children. Personally he's one of my favorite characters. Even with his attack on Ventus he realized it was wrong, it just took fighting his own "son" to come to that point.

See, that's the thing; we don't know if Xehy is really trying to make the universe better or he's just a big fat meanie who's in it for himself. Either way, he's an amazing character, however good or bad he is. I'm not entirely convinced that he's trying to reach what he thinks are good goals. In fact, I'd rather believe that he's just a power hungry geezer who trashes anyone who gets in his way. I think it'd make him more awesome if he was just in it for himself.

At least, I don't want Xehanort at the end to be all, "I was just trying to do good and you shouldn't kill me!". If he really is in it for himself, I want him to stay that way until the very end.

Death would be too quick for MX. He should instead be trapped in some kind of eternal limbo so that he'll know exactly how TAV felt.

 

[RoadtoDawn]

^^ I vote he get forced into taking a new/borrowed heart that isn't his original one, then cast into the realm of darkness and see how he likes it. But if Xehanort doesn't die, that's going to cause all sorts of problems for the future KH games.

 

[trexalfa]

Well, before anything, I will left this clear: Xehanort is my favorite villain of all time. I love the cunning villain that manipulates everyone to achieve his goals. Xehanort's plan of "I will turn everyone into myself" remembers me of Bob Page's plan in Deus Ex (Deus Ex spoilers ahead). He, after a series of manipulations of the world, such as creating the Gray Death and bribing important people with the cure and controlling all the info on the Internet through the Aquinas Protocol and Icarus, he tried to fuse with Helios, an all powerful IA (the result of fusing Daedalus and Icarus), to control the world. Me, as JC Denton, believed that Helios' goals to set a benevolent dictatorship was the mean to create a perfect world, so my JC fused with Helios to achieve this.

The difference between JC and Xehanort is that Xehanort wants to create a world of his own where people do his will, and used horrible means in order to achieve his goal, while JC and Helios tried to unite all people. So Xehanort's plans are pretty similar to Bob Page's plans. The goal of their plans was exactly the same, they wanted to rule over all people and control them. The deaths Xehanort caused using the Heartless are very similar to the deaths Bob caused with the Gray Death.

I think that Xehanort's plan has the potential to be for the greater good, but he is wrong both in the means and in the way he would rule, while JC had the same goal, but he was right in the way he would rule the world.

 

[Memory Master]

You know in a way one of the things that fundementally set Xehanort and Sora apart is their faith in humanity. Sora clearly believes people can be redeemed no matter what hence "The heart may be weak, and sometimes it may even give in. But i've learned that there's a light that never goes out!"

Where as Xehanort doesn't have faith in humanity at all hence his belief he can run things better all by himself.

I tend to agree with Xehanort more. Humans are flawed creatures. How many times have we screwed up? How many times has human arrogance led to horrific violations against nature? How many more innocent people have to suffer until we finally grow up. I could get into religious terms but that is a firestorm waiting to happen so i'll use something a bit more closer to home. Let's assume there is an alien race out there that is good, moral, non violent, and actually understand there is some universal code of right and wrong that all creatures must obey. Now if such a righteous race decides to punish us for all the terrible things mankind has done, what right do we have to argue against such judgement? We should embrace our punishment and realize that we are getting exactly what we deserve. I know most humans will side with their own kind and choose to defend humanity's crimes based on some argument like "We didn't know any better at the time." But the fact remains that no matter how sorry humanity may be we can never go back and erase the pain we have caused. As long as that pain exist, as long as even a single mistake or crime remains in our past, then we are an evil race. So in such a scenerio as an advanced alien race coming to judge and punish humanity, I will not side with my own kind. I will accept punishment for my own flaws and then side with the alien race to aid them anyway I can in punishing and then forcibly perfecting my own kind.

You see Xehanort's mentality is simple. When you have lost faith in humanity, then humans in their current state are just annoyances and using them as tools to bring about the perfecting of humanity is really a simple thing to do. By replacing everyone's individuality with a single nature, desire, will, mind, and heart, you effectively end opinions and the conflict they bring. Instead everyone will all agree on what is right and what is wrong. Once you do that you will have created a much more perfect world. I wouldn't want everyone to become a Xehanort, but if everyone became an Aqua or someone along those line, hell even Eraqus would be good, then the universe would be a much better place. It would be so peaceful, so united, we'd all be like one big happy family with no disagreements or conflict at all. Would it become boring after awhile? Maybe so. But I would rather live in a boring yet peaceful universe, than a universe that is simply interesting because of it's diversity and conflict. No amount interests and excitment is worth the pain brough about by conflict. No...mankind, all creatures in the universe, should submit to one will. And then we shall have paradise.

 

[State]

Humans are flawed creatures.

Humans ALONE are flawed creatures, but when joined with others, they complement their faults with pros.

How many times have we screwed up?

How many times have we learned from our errors (or some of us)?

How many times has human arrogance led to horrific violations against nature?

How many times has human fought against itself in hope of recovering nature?

You're generalizing, which is an error. Not every one of us is an evil doer. Why don't you mention how the world united against Hitler's regime? That's a clear example of how humans use teamwork to put their cons aside and view for our good interests. This is meant to be a balanced world; the good, the bad, the rich, the poor, the attractive and the ugly. That's why a world where we're ALL individuals is perfect, seeing as how we individually define ourselves based on our personal ideologies and differ with others, creating variation and breaking monotony. Of course, a peaceful utopia would be nice, but boring at the same time. We're a race meant to err and learn, not do good, and good, and good all the time. We're meant to build and destroy.

At least that's my point of view as to life being an entertainment and a school of sorts, while death being your price for fulfilling your goal.

xXx

Trying to mash this with KH, Xehanort is an example of an immoral science. Science is meant to progress us, not kill us to fill our thirst for knowledge.

 

[Memory Master]

Humans ALONE are flawed creatures, but when joined with others, they complement their faults with pros.

No matter how many people you get together, they are all still a flawed. We make mistakes even when joined with others. No matter how many people you get together, somewhere down the road they will make a mistake. Besides humans can never truly be united because no two humans are the same. There differences, even if their differences are small, will eventually conflict with each other. People can only be truly perfectly united when they share the same will, mind, heart, desires, beliefs, and goals.

How many times have we learned from our errors (or some of us)?

We shouldn't have ever had an errors to begin with. We should have been perfect in every single way. Think about this: You have a human experiment of some kind, the experiment goes wrong and people die. Children left without parents, lovers left without their lover. The pain of loss consuming every part of their heart. Sure we learn from the mistakes we made in the experiment so we don't screw up the next time. But the pain caused by the original mistakes can never be erased. And that harsh reality is simply too much to handle.

No matter how much you learn from a mistake, you can never erase the pain caused by the mistake. And that is unforgivable. That is why humans must be corrected, their flaws made perfect, but first they must be punished so they understand the pain they have caused other humans. Only then will mankind realize it's need to be perfected.

How many times has human fought against itself in hope of recovering nature?

You misunderstood me when I spoke about "nature" i'm not refering to the planet. I'm refering to certain boundries that humans should never cross. Like cloning, murder, things humans are too flawed to be trusted to tamper with. For example if we learned to time travel, humans should never travel through time because we are simply too prone to make mistakes to be trusted with such power. I'd rather see mankind destroyed than to see us travel through time. We have to be kept in our proper place or else we could become far too dangerous.

You're generalizing, which is an error. Not every one of us is an evil doer. Why don't you mention how the world united against Hitler's regime? That's a clear example of how humans use teamwork to put their cons aside and view for our good interests. This is meant to be a balanced world; the good, the bad, the rich, the poor, the attractive and the ugly. That's why a world where we're ALL individuals is perfect, seeing as how we individually define ourselves based on our personal ideologies and differ with others, creating variation and breaking monotony. Of course, a peaceful utopia would be nice, but boring at the same time. We're a race meant to err and learn, not do good, and good, and good all the time. We're meant to build and destroy.

I'm not saying every human is evil. I know there are good humans. However a race that has any evil in it at all, is a race that should be forced into being perfected. I'm not interested in an exciting world, only a peaceful world where all things are clearly defined as either right or wrong and there is no grey area.

You defend humanity because there are good people in it, but I will never defend humanity for the simple fact that there are evil people in it. No matter how many good people you have it will never be enough to make up for the evil people in the world. And it's not like I wont admit I have my own flaws. I depise my own human nature. If I could throw away and be rid of it I would in a heart beat. I will gladly suffer punishment for my mistakes just like I believe everyone else should be punished for their mistakes. So atleast you can't call me a hypocrite. Hell, I punish myself whenever I make even the slightest of mistakes. Just the other day I left my cellphone at a resturant. Sure it was a small mistake but I punished myself for it. The more I punish myself the more I repress my human flaws, the less human I will become and eventually I will become less human than everyone, i'll be closer to the perfection I desire. I wont try to defend my mistakes or use excuses or accept my flaws. I will find punish myself for my flaws, rejecting human flaws and embracing punishment for my mistakes, that is being truly humble.

Trying to mash this with KH, Xehanort is an example of an immoral science. Science is meant to progress us, not kill us to fill our thirst for knowledge.

Science, religion, spiritualism, whatever you want to use, the goal of mankind should be to erase our human flaws and transform us into a perfect race. If erasing individuality and replacing it with one will and mind like Xehanort wishes to do, would in turn erase human flaws of conflict, then so be it.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Every time I see you post in a Xehanort thread, I know what's coming. You have a MAJOR bias against him for some reason. Did he kill your family?

Anyways, a balanced world is a GREAT idea. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Surely a Xehanort-controlled world would end up not being balanced, but a balanced world involves equal parts light and darkness. Who wouldn't benefit from that?

I certainly don't know what your problem is. I have no so-called "bias" against Xehanort, as I repeatedly stated that he's an awesome main villain.
What I do however is rebuke the efforts by some (mainly Memory Master and yours) to rationalize, trivialize and excuse all the crimes Xehanort has committed over the whole series that were shown throughout all games while you base your stubbon claims to turn him into a sympathetic figure only on one vague statement in his reports:

I believe a balance of light and darkness is what sustains our World, but too much of the darkness has been stamped out, disrupting that balance. Someone must tear down this tyranny of light and reorganize the World around the darkness which then creeps back in.

It's clearly said that he only believes what he writes there and has no proof for it. In fact, the claim about darkness being stamped out and a "tyranny of light" is actually a blatant lie since the lanes between are also filled with darkness and the worlds need their barriers to keep it out.
The worlds were actually doing pretty fine for over thousands of years in the current cosmic order until Xehanort started to mess everything up in his arrogance.

Funny how you accuse me of being biased but designate everyone who doesn't agree with Xehanort's plans and finds them "GREAT" is an idiot.
So the entire cast of KH characters, Disney, FF and several forum members here beside me are idiots? Do I get that right?
The question is asked wrong, as no one except Xehanort would benefit because everyone else would be enslaved to Xehanort.

I thought that it has been made clear before, Xehanort's plan is not to have a 'balanced world of light and darkness'. Hasn't it been made known that said line was just a lie to trick Terra.

It has, he mostly did that to entice Terra in BBS in order to make him embrace his darkness and he uses it as an excuse and justification in his quest for absolute power and knowledge.

You're right. I didn't mean to sound rude in my other post, sorry if it appeared so, it's just that you really know the series and it would be nice to see your interpretation. Thank you! I haven't thought about the non-existant tiranny of light either, probably I just absorbed his speech without giving it much thought.

Nah, it's ok. I only made that bold part in order to emphasize that the only one who's constantly claiming that the universe even needs to be balanced is the one who actually wants to destroy it.
Terra also didn't give Xehanort's speeches that much thought either, lol, so you're not alone.
No one can deny that Xehanort is cunning and a good strategist, even Yen Sid acknowledged that.

He doesn't have a bias. Hell, Xehanort is my favorite villain in the series (*points at name*) and even I think he's a cruel psychopath who has no redeemable qualities. All of you who think he does obviously haven't been playing the same games.

Xehanort does not want a balanced universe. The man has no compassion in his heart. He's cruel and sees people as things. He wants a universe directly under his control with everybody being him. He's forcing his own will upon others. Whatever universe he'll create will be a barren, fruitless one filled with anguish. How is this benefitting anybody?

Also, I wouldn't want a balanced world. That means all things are stripped down to being classified as one thing or the other, and nothing is as simple as that.

Thanks Master Spockanort, he's definitely my favorite villain too, but that's it: He's a villain with no redeemable qualities, and as Taochan and you pointed out, those who mean to portray him as someone who wants something good for everybody haven't been playing the same games.

Xehanort only wants what benefits him and him alone, he wants to control everything and know everything.

What Xehanort wants to create isn't even a "balanced" world, what he wants is a world were everybody is his slave and free will and indiviuality is completely suppressed, much like Emperor Palpatine or, in real life, Adolf Hitler did.

But there are positives to what Xehanort's universe would be like. By stropping all things down to being one side or the other, you eliminate the gray area between, it would become easy to define all things. No more questioning or arguing, or varying degrees of morality. With such a simple universe you do have a boring and fruitless universe, but a more clear and simplistic understanding of reality.

Now combine that with everyone being turned into a Xehanort, you eliminate individual opinions and desires, we would all think with one heart and mind. We would all believe the same things, feel the same things, and think the same way. This would lead to the end of wars, conflict, and debate. It would be boring, but it would also be more peaceful and calmer. It comes down to what you value you more: "A world that is boring yet peaceful and united in heart and mind" or "A world of pure individuals that is diverse and progresses with change, but is also plagued by conflict."

Xehanort certainly isn't the best candidate to be the one to do this. But imagine if we had someone who was kind, loving, and simply wanted all the conflict and fighting in the world to end, wouldn't turning everyone into a version of a person like that be better than having all these individuals fighting for the rest of eternity.

At some point conflict should end, people should be united in their beliefs, thoughts, and feelings, add in immortality for everyone and you have a perfect paradise. The true evil is allowing for a world of individuals in conflict, and living beings with flaws, to exist forever. That is truly scary.

I wouldn't want Xehanort to be the one to do what he wants to do, but if you had someone kind like Aqua trying to turn everyone into a version of her, then that wouldn't be such a bad thing at all, and I would certainly fight to help someone like Aqua create such a beautiful world.

The only problem with Xehanort's plan is Xehanort himself. Put someone nicer like Aqua in there instead and the end goal isn't really all that bad.

I really don't see why there are any positives in what Xehanort wants.
By eliminating individual opinions and desires you also elimininate what makes humans human. Forcing the same thinking, same beliefs and same feelings on everyone is the ultimate form of slavery, there will not be any identities or even people anymore.
You will just have a swarm of mindless drones imprisoned in their own bodies.

It's not about what you value more in terms of "boring" or "plagued by conflict" but if you value having an identity and even a "you" at all.
What you actually propose here is a form of instrumentality, and the worst one imaginable by having a single identity suppressing your sense of self and forcing you to live as a puppeted slave.
That cannot even be called "life" at all because there would be no free will at all anymore.

It's similar to what the conductor Kitaniji in The World ends with you planned or Lorenz Keel and the SEELE committee in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

It doesn't matter if it's Xehanort, Aqua or even Goofy because the result remains the same, everyone is suppressed and enslaved by a single will and anyone who values their individual sense of self and the ability to decide for him/herself cannot possibly want such a world since it's not an utopia, but a dystopia.
Another nice example why such a proposal is squicky is the novel "1984" by George Orwell.

That you actually propose such a thing (also counting your next posts here) also for reality makes me in fact very wary of you, sorry.

MM did you ever play The World Ends With You? This plan he has goes against so many things. You can't get rid of other people, they are there for a reason. We need to learn from one another, grow, change, bond. If Aqua did do this, she would still miss Ven and Terra, People need other people. Humans will one day be on par with Heaven and the angels but not right now.

Yeah, replacing Xehanort with Aqua would not change a thing because the very thing itself is so grossly wrong that it actually made be shudder.

But the majority of his posts is just him yelling at xehanort and bashing everyone else's opinions of him. Yeah, he's bad. But it's STILL up to interpretation EXACTLY what he wants. He DID want a balanced world. But he was corrupted. Now he wants to rule, because he thinks he can make everything right. That was specifically stated.

Uhhhh, that's not what a balanced world is? In KH, the "Worlds" we visit are the light, only specks floating in an ocean of darkness, and border a complete world of darkness (like the complete world of light the specks used to be). The balance is to bring light and darkness to a standstill. That's what (I'm making an educated assumption) it means to make the universe balanced in KH.

I am not bashing anything, I'm just pointing out obvious point about Xehanort's intentions which you and Memory Master seem bent on to blissfully ignore.
It has been already pointed out not only by me, but several others like Zul, Landyx, Master Spockanort and Taochan.

Relix summed it up the best, though.

Xehanort is a selfish individual who thinks that because the world is not the way he envisioned it and because of his sociopathic curiosity he will do anything and everything to achieve this goal. Changing the world into your own image, no matter how "good" you think it is, is wrong. Imposing your will over others is wrong. Wishing war and devastation, separation and annihilation, is wrong. Xehanort is wrong.

Especially the bolded parts say already everything important.

It IS clear what Xehanort wants, it has been stated multiple times already that he wants to rule over all that lives and wants to play god, there isn't anything "to interpret" further.

If MX was completely evil, he wouldn't have brought Ven to Destiny Islands to live out his days. There was a hint of compassion for him, imo.

Xehanort dumped Ven at Destiny Islands (his own homeworld which he despises as "too small" and a prison) because he saw no more use in him since his heart was destroyed.

He took Ventus as his pupil only to use him for his plans in the first place, so he never felt anything for the kid as a person anyways. He was only a tool and the catastrophic damage to his heart was inflicted by Xehanort himself on purpose, not on accident.
So any possible "compassion" from Xehanort's side is invalid by default and only hypocrisy.

Eh I suppose that what you are saying is partially true/accurate. I still reject the idea of some sort of compassion or whatever, yes he was useless at that point in which MX brought him there like you have said (up until Sora helped him and he summons his keyblade), but he was only ever a pawn. MX says that this world is like a prison to Ven, so how nice can he really be dumping him off at some place that he himself thinks is 'prison like'.

Don't get me wrong though, I love Destiny Islands and think it is beautiful and that it would be a great place to live.

You got it.

xehanort isn't inherently evil, that's known for sure. the funny part is, compared to the way eraqus acted in BBS, he's definitely the nicer guy.

When acted Eraqus ever worse than Xehanort except in the scene where he tries to kill Ven (which was out of desperation, not really true malevolence towards Ven)?

Xehanort may act less strict and at times more compassionate, but that shows only what a good actor he is.
I don't know how you can describe him as the "nicer guy" compared to Eraqus when he destroyed Ven's heart, stabbed a weakened Eraqus in the back, destroyed the Land of Departure, enjoyed the pain he was inflicting (just look at his expression when he talks with Terra before their final fight) and in the end steals another persons body.

I do think there are some things blown way out of proportion here.

EDIT:

People can only be truly perfectly united when they share the same will, mind, heart, desires, beliefs, and goals.

No matter how much you learn from a mistake, you can never erase the pain caused by the mistake. And that is unforgivable. That is why humans must be corrected, their flaws made perfect, but first they must be punished so they understand the pain they have caused other humans. Only then will mankind realize it's need to be perfected.

I will find punish myself for my flaws, rejecting human flaws and embracing punishment for my mistakes, that is being truly humble.

Science, religion, spiritualism, whatever you want to use, the goal of mankind should be to erase our human flaws and transform us into a perfect race. If erasing individuality and replacing it with one will and mind like Xehanort wishes to do, would in turn erase human flaws of conflict, then so be it.

Then people aren't people anymore.

Excuse me? Humans must be corrected? Must be punished? Need to be perfected?
Are you insane or what? Perfection does not exist, cannot exist.
Who gives you the kupoing right to judge other human beings and impose things on them? I think I'm in the wrong movie here...0_o

You can do that for yourself all you want when it makes you feel better, but you have no right to impose that on other humans. By doing that you're not humble but insolent.

There is no perfect race since perfection doesn't exist and can be defined in hundreds of ways.
I am truly out of more words, sorry guys, but that is very heavy tobacco, opinion or not.

 

[Sign]

tl;dr

So how about that Xehanort?

 

[Memory Master]

It's not about what you value more in terms of "boring" or "plagued by conflict" but if you value having an identity and even a "you" at all.
What you actually propose here is a form of instrumentality, and the worst one imaginable by having a single identity suppressing your sense of self and forcing you to live as a puppeted slave.
That cannot even be called "life" at all because there would be no free will at all anymore.

It doesn't matter if it's Xehanort, Aqua or even Goofy because the result remains the same, everyone is suppressed and enslaved by a single will and anyone who values their individual sense of self and the ability to decide for him/herself cannot possibly want such a world since it's not an utopia, but a dystopia.

I'm not saying that people's complete individuality should be replaced with someone else's. I wouldn't go that far. Only that people should be greatly influenced by the nature and will of a single being. It's not so much as replacing individuality, but more of supressing the human nature inside each person.

I'll use Aqua as an example once again. Imagine if everyone in the universe was more like her. Not that they are Aqua, they retain their individuality to an extent, but they become more like Aqua in how they think, feel, make choices, ect.

Then people aren't people anymore.

Excuse me? Humans must be corrected? Must be punished? Need to be perfected?
Are you insane or what? Perfection does not exist, cannot exist.
Who gives you the kupoing right to judge other human beings and impose things on them? I think I'm in the wrong movie here...0_o

You can do that for yourself all you want when it makes you feel better, but you have no right to impose that on other humans. By doing that you're not humble but insolent.

There is no perfect race since perfection doesn't exist and can be defined in hundreds of ways.
I am truly out of more words, sorry guys, but that is very heavy tobacco, opinion or not.

Look i could get into a religious argument regarding perfection, but i'm not doing here. I'll just say that I do believe there is perfection.

Someone has to judge human beings. Humans cannot be trusted to rule themselves. A flawed race cannot be trusted to do anything but fail.

Most humans will defend their own kind. They do so because they are afraid to admit their own flaws and mistakes and take responsibility for those mistakes. They don't want to seem hypocritical. They put so much trust and faith in humanity. They blindly choose to see the good and ignore the bad. That only proves the weakness of human beings. They are too weak to face the harsh reality: That they, humanity, and this world are flawed. Oh sure you get a few good humans every once in awhile, but they are the exception to the rules. For most humans once they reach a certain age they become corrupt.

In my opinion, it is evil to accept a world where death and pain exist. To accept such an imperfect world is just wrong. Such acceptance only proves that humans enjoys death, pain, suffering.

Look at a child that looses his parents to some killer, look in the face of that child, and then tell me you don't wish that we lived in a perfect world where that child could have his/her parents back. You can't possibly tell that child to accept and tolerate such a cruel reality. Even if it is impossible for humans to achieve perfection, it is still more honorable and noble to try and obtain perfection, than it is to accept such a broken world. The very act of seeking perfection shows the compassion a person has for the innocent among us. It is those who seek perfection, even if it is impossible for a human to achieve, that are the greatest of people. For they are the ones who see pain and suffering in the world and do not just sit there and say "Oh well, it's a learn experience." they see the victims of humanity's flaws, and it is for those victims they are driven to find perfection in some hope that what has been wronged may right. And the reward for such a journey would be, in the case of the child who lost his parents, just to see the smiles and tears of joy as parents and child are reunited forever. How can anyone mock such a beautiful desire, the desire for a perfect world and a perfect race. The mere fact that a human would mock such a wonderful dream is proof of humanity's evil nature and proof that humans must be corrected.

 

[naturemage2]

You use the word perfection alot, but i wish you took heed to what Kevin Flynn and CLU talked about in their chat.

" the thing about perfection is that its unknowable. It's impossible, but also right in front of us, all the time"

I don't want to base my opinion on this quote, but i feel it best suits your "perfection POV". You can chase after perfection, but when you don't know the limit, where does it end? How does one obtain something that has no limit?

I frankly do not want perfection or desire perfection. As i see it, its a state that will never move, never change. Perfection to me is the same as a void or limbo universe that will never change.

A desire to improve oneself is noble, to correct the mistakes and understanding the pain it cause. You can never erase the pain, but as the victim can learn to forgive. For the perpetrator, you can learn the error and seek to understand that pain.

Humanity is flawed and yet perfect for having individualism. Rather I would dare to imagine what 6-7 billions people are truly capable of when we aim for a common goal. Something as simple as do one good deed for each person is 6 billion good deeds. It takes just one person to make a difference.

 

[Relix]

Forcing one's will on someone else is wrong, which is what Xehanort wishes to do. Wanting people to follow your example or to be more like you is completely different from thinking that because all you people are flawed, I will make your decisions for you. Inspiring others to be better, even through your example, is a good path because you are still leaving a choice for others. Leaving them with their free will, while someone like Xehanort wishes to take that. He's a good villain but a crappy human being

 

[RoadtoDawn]

^^^ THIS. I'm on the Xehanort-is-the-rare-PURE-evil-guy-you-occasionally-come-across side. Despite the things he says to seem less evil, it's clear that his reasons are, at best, to gain knowledge for knowledge's sake, at the price of everything else. It's a good motive, but combined with the extent to which he's willing to take it, it's very very bad.

Too much of anything is always a bad thing. Basically what he wants is just as bad as what he's willing to do to achieve it.

 

[D.D.D]

I think this is the deepest KH thread I've ever read. Jeez, we're getting into some deep issues here. '~'

But anyways, whether or not people would be better off independent or all the same is just a matter of opinion. There's nothing untrue about what Memory Master is saying; everyone having the same exact mindset, personality, and goals would result in a society that would never fight, scorn, ridicule, envy, or have as much conflict as we do now. That can't be argued against.

But the reverse is also true; everyone being unique and individual creates color, excitement, variety, and our world wouldn't be nearly as diverse and different as it is now. That also cannot be argued against.

Really, the only answer lies with opinion, which is not fact and thus cannot truly be wrong. So the question is, what's worse: a society that has flaws and often is stuck in conflict, or a society that's boring and there's no room for diversity?

tl;dr: no one here is 100% wrong or right.