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Xehanort's Destiny in KH3



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Sephiroth0812

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What do you despise about his goals, exactly? His methods are really bad, yes, an extremist at it's worst, but the though of having a balanced world is not bad in my view. Also, I felt the same way about Xemnas when KH2 came out and we thought their goals involved only having hearts for themselves.

Who says that the world needs to be "balanced"? Only the mass-suffering causing madman who wants to play god and control every living being, no one else. (And some fans who I slowly get the vibe are only rabid darkness-fanboys).
What I despise about Xehanort's "supposed" noble goals is that he unduly claims to want to do things he hasn't the right to do.
From what we saw so far in the series, there isn't the supposed "tyranny of light" at all since except for the worlds dotted around the RoL there seems to be an abundance of darkness rather than light.

For Xemnas I also never felt the slightest sympathy or the rest of the Organisation except Axel, Xion and Roxas.
They were messing up countless worlds, creating Heartless and holding prisoner millions of human hearts.

If you had any understanding of Xehanort's character, you know the possibilities of your hypothetical interaction with him would be.

1. Being ingored by him.
2. Being killed by him.
3. Being used by him.

His character archetype is that of a sociopath madman, not someone to be admired in the slightest.

Full agreement.

The way I understand it, Xehanorts goals are as followed:

1. Forge the complete X-Blade
2. Upon the forging of the X-Blade the complete true KH is returned to the realm of light.
3. Use the X-Blade to unlock KH thus uniting the worlds into one world again.
4. The worlds united once more, most likely some will get greedy and want the light of KH for themselves again, thus sparking a new Keyblade War.
5. At the end of the second Keyblade War the world will be consumed in darkness just like the first time thus replacing the current order of light with one of darkness.
6. With the old order destroyed, Xehanort will merge with KH and thus will have the power to create a brand new world order made in his image (I'm assuming by turning everyone in the universe into a Xehanort) and according to his vision (A world where light and dark are balanced).
7. Rule this new world as a god.

Yeah, exactly. Someone who wants to bring about an apocalypse and destroy everything that is not to his/her ideals is depraved and crazy to the core.
We had several of such "enlightened" persons in real life too who wanted to change the world to their liking and they also caused nothing but destruction.
Examples I can think of immediately are Genghis Khan, Attila the hun, Mao Zedong (Cultural revolution), Joseph Stalin (Paradise of the workers), Benito Mussolini (new roman empire) or Adolf Hitler (the "master-race").

To force your ideals on others is plain and simply wrong, there is nothing to admire about that.

The point i'm making is that Xehanort is an extremist and yes his methods are certainly, but the desire to have the power to remake the world how we want, is something I'm sure everyone has wanted at some point in their. The chance to remake the world into our idea of a perfect paradise, is something everyone has thought about.

Everytime someone says they wish the world could be this way, or people could be this way or that way, or I wish something wouldn't happen. Those are deep desires we have to change the world to how we think it should be.

The difference between us and Xehanort, is that Xehanort knows how to make the world how he wants it and has a plan to make it happen. He's living out what all of us at one time has surely desired to do, to find a way to change the world to how we want it to be. And i'm not going to lie, if I was in Xehanort's position I would also try to make the world/universe how I wanted it to be. Though I would never use the methods Xehanort has used to achieve his goal.
The only thing I can imagine myself doing that Xehanort did to achieve my goals, is trying to find a way to remain in the world of the living for as long as it takes to achieve my goals. Though unlike Xehanort I would find someone who would willingly let me take over their body, and once I had reached KH I would hand control of their body back to them and reward them with being second in command in my new world.

I would be cautious with such generalizations. Not every human being is a power hungry madman who wants to play god because human beings who have a bit of dignity and common sense know that you do not follow some "deep desire", which Xehanort completely lacks.

And that plan involves mass murder on an universe-wide scale and complete destruction. I completely fail to understand how that can actually be admired. It's disgusting and repelling no matter from which angle I look at it.
Xehanort does nothing for "the greater good" but everything for his own selfish desires.
The main difference between (most) of us and Xehanort is that we have some regard to the life of others and do not want to play god.

I don't even know how to properly respond to the last paragraph, as I fear I would use some inappropriate language.



Yet here's the thing with that MM, he's acting out on selfish wills. He's not making the world better, he's only doing what he wants. He wants to play God and to hell with who or whatever gets in his way. What he is is Satan in human flesh. Also if someone where to do what he did, I would call you the scum of the earth for forgetting your fellow men and woman, for your own selfish gain. I can't wait for Sora to take his goals and cause them to fall to the ground crashing on him for all the people he's harmed.

Without going too much in the religious analogies, the main gist of this is correct.
Xehanort relishes in dominating, hurting and controlling others, and solely for that he's already despiseable.

Xehanort is a selfish individual who thinks that because the world is not the way he envisioned it and because of his sociopathic curiosity he will do anything and everything to achieve this goal. Changing the world into your own image, no matter how "good" you think it is, is wrong. Imposing your will over others is wrong. Wishing war and devastation, separation and annihilation, is wrong. Xehanort is wrong.

Relix said:
Knowledge obtained just to benefit one's self without the consideration and safety of others (who have clearly showed their disdain, concern, and horror of your goal) can't possibly be morally justified. I don't care how rational Xehanort may think he is or how understandable his goals may be. He may not be insane but he is far from just or moral


Couldn't agree more, exactly my point as well in both instances!!!
 

MasterZeR0

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Who says that the world needs to be "balanced"? Only the mass-suffering causing madman who wants to play god and control every living being, no one else. (And some fans who I slowly get the vibe are only rabid darkness-fanboys).
What I despise about Xehanort's "supposed" noble goals is that he unduly claims to want to do things he hasn't the right to do.
From what we saw so far in the series, there isn't the supposed "tyranny of light" at all since except for the worlds dotted around the RoL there seems to be an abundance of darkness rather than light.

For Xemnas I also never felt the slightest sympathy or the rest of the Organisation except Axel, Xion and Roxas.
They were messing up countless worlds, creating Heartless and holding prisoner millions of human hearts.



Full agreement.



Yeah, exactly. Someone who wants to bring about an apocalypse and destroy everything that is not to his/her ideals is depraved and crazy to the core.
We had several of such "enlightened" persons in real life too who wanted to change the world to their liking and they also caused nothing but destruction.
Examples I can think of immediately are Genghis Khan, Attila the hun, Mao Zedong (Cultural revolution), Joseph Stalin (Paradise of the workers), Benito Mussolini (new roman empire) or Adolf Hitler (the "master-race").

To force your ideals on others is plain and simply wrong, there is nothing to admire about that.



I would be cautious with such generalizations. Not every human being is a power hungry madman who wants to play god because human beings who have a bit of dignity and common sense know that you do not follow some "deep desire", which Xehanort completely lacks.

And that plan involves mass murder on an universe-wide scale and complete destruction. I completely fail to understand how that can actually be admired. It's disgusting and repelling no matter from which angle I look at it.
Xehanort does nothing for "the greater good" but everything for his own selfish desires.
The main difference between (most) of us and Xehanort is that we have some regard to the life of others and do not want to play god.

I don't even know how to properly respond to the last paragraph, as I fear I would use some inappropriate language.





Without going too much in the religious analogies, the main gist of this is correct.
Xehanort relishes in dominating, hurting and controlling others, and solely for that he's already despiseable.






Couldn't agree more, exactly my point as well in both instances!!!

Every time I see you post in a Xehanort thread, I know what's coming. You have a MAJOR bias against him for some reason. Did he kill your family?

Anyways, a balanced world is a GREAT idea. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Surely a Xehanort-controlled world would end up not being balanced, but a balanced world involves equal parts light and darkness. Who wouldn't benefit from that?
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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I thought that it has been made clear before, Xehanort's plan is not to have a 'balanced world of light and darkness'. Hasn't it been made known that said line was just a lie to trick Terra.
 

Villen

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Who says that the world needs to be "balanced"? Only the mass-suffering causing madman who wants to play god and control every living being, no one else. (And some fans who I slowly get the vibe are only rabid darkness-fanboys).
What I despise about Xehanort's "supposed" noble goals is that he unduly claims to want to do things he hasn't the right to do.
From what we saw so far in the series, there isn't the supposed "tyranny of light" at all since except for the worlds dotted around the RoL there seems to be an abundance of darkness rather than light.

You're right. I didn't mean to sound rude in my other post, sorry if it appeared so, it's just that you really know the series and it would be nice to see your interpretation. Thank you! I haven't thought about the non-existant tiranny of light either, probably I just absorbed his speech without giving it much thought.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Every time I see you post in a Xehanort thread, I know what's coming. You have a MAJOR bias against him for some reason. Did he kill your family?

Anyways, a balanced world is a GREAT idea. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Surely a Xehanort-controlled world would end up not being balanced, but a balanced world involves equal parts light and darkness. Who wouldn't benefit from that?

He doesn't have a bias. Hell, Xehanort is my favorite villain in the series (*points at name*) and even I think he's a cruel psychopath who has no redeemable qualities. All of you who think he does obviously haven't been playing the same games.

Xehanort does not want a balanced universe. The man has no compassion in his heart. He's cruel and sees people as things. He wants a universe directly under his control with everybody being him. He's forcing his own will upon others. Whatever universe he'll create will be a barren, fruitless one filled with anguish. How is this benefitting anybody?

Also, I wouldn't want a balanced world. That means all things are stripped down to being classified as one thing or the other, and nothing is as simple as that.
 

Smithee

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You're right. I didn't mean to sound rude in my other post, sorry if it appeared so, it's just that you really know the series and it would be nice to see your interpretation. Thank you! I haven't thought about the non-existant tiranny of light either, probably I just absorbed his speech without giving it much thought.

All the more motivation that a future Light-based Anti-Villain needs for destroying Darkness:

The "balance" was just fine before Xehanort came along. But thanks to Xehanort's constant kupoing around, this "Anti-Villain" now believes that it is impossible for Light and Darkness to co-exist, and that it would be better for everyone if Darkness were gone forever.
 

Memory Master

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He doesn't have a bias. Hell, Xehanort is my favorite villain in the series (*points at name*) and even I think he's a cruel psychopath who has no redeemable qualities. All of you who think he does obviously haven't been playing the same games.

Xehanort does not want a balanced universe. The man has no compassion in his heart. He's cruel and sees people as things. He wants a universe directly under his control with everybody being him. He's forcing his own will upon others. Whatever universe he'll create will be a barren, fruitless one filled with anguish. How is this benefitting anybody?

Also, I wouldn't want a balanced world. That means all things are stripped down to being classified as one thing or the other, and nothing is as simple as that.

But there are positives to what Xehanort's universe would be like. By stropping all things down to being one side or the other, you eliminate the gray area between, it would become easy to define all things. No more questioning or arguing, or varying degrees of morality. With such a simple universe you do have a boring and fruitless universe, but a more clear and simplistic understanding of reality.

Now combine that with everyone being turned into a Xehanort, you eliminate individual opinions and desires, we would all think with one heart and mind. We would all believe the same things, feel the same things, and think the same way. This would lead to the end of wars, conflict, and debate. It would be boring, but it would also be more peaceful and calmer. It comes down to what you value you more: "A world that is boring yet peaceful and united in heart and mind" or "A world of pure individuals that is diverse and progresses with change, but is also plagued by conflict."

Xehanort certainly isn't the best candidate to be the one to do this. But imagine if we had someone who was kind, loving, and simply wanted all the conflict and fighting in the world to end, wouldn't turning everyone into a version of a person like that be better than having all these individuals fighting for the rest of eternity.

At some point conflict should end, people should be united in their beliefs, thoughts, and feelings, add in immortality for everyone and you have a perfect paradise. The true evil is allowing for a world of individuals in conflict, and living beings with flaws, to exist forever. That is truly scary.

I wouldn't want Xehanort to be the one to do what he wants to do, but if you had someone kind like Aqua trying to turn everyone into a version of her, then that wouldn't be such a bad thing at all, and I would certainly fight to help someone like Aqua create such a beautiful world.

The only problem with Xehanort's plan is Xehanort himself. Put someone nicer like Aqua in there instead and the end goal isn't really all that bad.
 

Lanydx reborn

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But there are positives to what Xehanort's universe would be like. By stropping all things down to being one side or the other, you eliminate the gray area between, it would become easy to define all things. No more questioning or arguing, or varying degrees of morality. With such a simple universe you do have a boring and fruitless universe, but a more clear and simplistic understanding of reality.

Now combine that with everyone being turned into a Xehanort, you eliminate individual opinions and desires, we would all think with one heart and mind. We would all believe the same things, feel the same things, and think the same way. This would lead to the end of wars, conflict, and debate. It would be boring, but it would also be more peaceful and calmer. It comes down to what you value you more: "A world that is boring yet peaceful and united in heart and mind" or "A world of pure individuals that is diverse and progresses with change, but is also plagued by conflict."

Xehanort certainly isn't the best candidate to be the one to do this. But imagine if we had someone who was kind, loving, and simply wanted all the conflict and fighting in the world to end, wouldn't turning everyone into a version of a person like that be better than having all these individuals fighting for the rest of eternity.

At some point conflict should end, people should be united in their beliefs, thoughts, and feelings, add in immortality for everyone and you have a perfect paradise. The true evil is allowing for a world of individuals in conflict, and living beings with flaws, to exist forever. That is truly scary.

I wouldn't want Xehanort to be the one to do what he wants to do, but if you had someone kind like Aqua trying to turn everyone into a version of her, then that wouldn't be such a bad thing at all, and I would certainly fight to help someone like Aqua create such a beautiful world.

The only problem with Xehanort's plan is Xehanort himself. Put someone nicer like Aqua in there instead and the end goal isn't really all that bad.

MM did you ever play The World Ends With You? This plan he has goes against so many things. You can't get rid of other people, they are there for a reason. We need to learn from one another, grow, change, bond. If Aqua did do this, she would still miss Ven and Terra, People need other people. Humans will one day be on par with Heaven and the angels but not right now.
 

MasterZeR0

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He doesn't have a bias. Hell, Xehanort is my favorite villain in the series (*points at name*) and even I think he's a cruel psychopath who has no redeemable qualities. All of you who think he does obviously haven't been playing the same games.

Xehanort does not want a balanced universe. The man has no compassion in his heart. He's cruel and sees people as things. He wants a universe directly under his control with everybody being him. He's forcing his own will upon others. Whatever universe he'll create will be a barren, fruitless one filled with anguish. How is this benefitting anybody?

Also, I wouldn't want a balanced world. That means all things are stripped down to being classified as one thing or the other, and nothing is as simple as that.

But the majority of his posts is just him yelling at xehanort and bashing everyone else's opinions of him. Yeah, he's bad. But it's STILL up to interpretation EXACTLY what he wants. He DID want a balanced world. But he was corrupted. Now he wants to rule, because he thinks he can make everything right. That was specifically stated.

Uhhhh, that's not what a balanced world is? In KH, the "Worlds" we visit are the light, only specks floating in an ocean of darkness, and border a complete world of darkness (like the complete world of light the specks used to be). The balance is to bring light and darkness to a standstill. That's what (I'm making an educated assumption) it means to make the universe balanced in KH.
 

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Xehanort is a the end justifies the means type of person. If he has a good intention (which he has, seeing as how he wants to balance things out), with this type of thinking, this catalogs him as an anti-hero. These sort of individuals leave their initiatives and values behind for the greater good. He reminds me of a classmate. He's an excellent student, but got into a discussion with his childhood best-friend over something as trivial as losing a point or two over a class presentation, when we ALL know the System is made to raise idiots that depend on the Government, so what's the show?
 

Original Sin

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If MX was completely evil, he wouldn't have brought Ven to Destiny Islands to live out his days. There was a hint of compassion for him, imo.
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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If MX was completely evil, he wouldn't have brought Ven to Destiny Islands to live out his days. There was a hint of compassion for him, imo.
Uhh no, he needed Ven to merge back with Vanitas to make the Xblade. Ventus was always a pawn for MX.
 

Evello

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Xehanort is a the end justifies the means type of person. If he has a good intention (which he has, seeing as how he wants to balance things out), with this type of thinking, this catalogs him as an anti-hero. These sort of individuals leave their initiatives and values behind for the greater good. He reminds me of a classmate. He's an excellent student, but got into a discussion with his childhood best-friend over something as trivial as losing a point or two over a class presentation, when we ALL know the System is made to raise idiots that depend on the Government, so what's the show?
I personally agree with your first statement. He desires (or at least originally desired) a world at peace and in balance. He wanted to discover what the great light of legends was so that he could use that knowledge for his view of good. Sure, he would ruin the lives of millions by restarting the Keyblade War, but how many more lives would he improve in the future? Seems like a typical "ends justifies the means" scenario to me. And like in pretty much all such cases he believes himself the perfect person to rule the world and lead it into this era of prosperity (which, as most of us understand, makes him pretty much the least qualified person to do so).

Xehanort's biggest problem is that he lacks any empathy. He's a cold, calculating, heartless monster who treats everyone like objects to be controlled and discarded. He's the perfect opposite to Sora, who has the ability to connect with anyone and cares about the well-being of all the people around him.

I hope that in the end of the series, that weakness in particular is Xehanort's undoing. I hope he runs into some situation where he needs someone else to save him, but only has versions of himself who are unable to help. Even beyond all the darkness vs. light talk that the series indulges in, the importance of connecting with other people seems to be the series' fundamental message.
 

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Right, I'm not having a heart time picturing Sora linking his heart with Xehanort's in the case the latter's heart is damaged.
 

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Xehanort's biggest problem is that he lacks any empathy. He's a cold, calculating, heartless monster who treats everyone like objects to be controlled and discarded. He's the perfect opposite to Sora, who has the ability to connect with anyone and cares about the well-being of all the people around him.

I hope that in the end of the series, that weakness in particular is Xehanort's undoing. I hope he runs into some situation where he needs someone else to save him, but only has versions of himself who are unable to help. Even beyond all the darkness vs. light talk that the series indulges in, the importance of connecting with other people seems to be the series' fundamental message.



Considering the series is called Kingdom HEARTS and the whole story is basically a metaphor for the power of empathy and emotion in general, I think you could be spot on ;) Whatever else happens, I NEED to see Xehanort rely on someone else for help and at some point realize if only for a moment that Sora's heart is more powerful than anything he could forge without it.

And Seraph, that would be SWEET.
 

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And Seraph, that would be SWEET.
I'm also having a hard time picturing Xehanort being PERMANENTLY eliminated from the universe of KH. What I'm seeing is that the heart of all worlds form a single heart; the Realm of Light's heart. By exposing the Light Realm to something as powerful as KH for so long, MX fractured it, meaning it has to be repaired and he, alongside Sora, join forces to rebuild it. Meanwhile, the other characters are doing their own thing, giving space for another saga to be based on someone else while these two do the repairing.
 

Original Sin

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Uhh no, he needed Ven to merge back with Vanitas to make the Xblade. Ventus was always a pawn for MX.
At the beginning of BbS, he had already written Ven off. He figured he was a goner, and brought his body to Destiny Islands to live out his final days.

If he was completely heartless (no pun), he would've just left Ven in the wastelands.
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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At the beginning of BbS, he had already written Ven off. He figured he was a goner, and brought his body to Destiny Islands to live out his final days.

If he was completely heartless (no pun), he would've just left Ven in the wastelands.
Eh I suppose that what you are saying is partially true/accurate. I still reject the idea of some sort of compassion or whatever, yes he was useless at that point in which MX brought him there like you have said (up until Sora helped him and he summons his keyblade), but he was only ever a pawn. MX says that this world is like a prison to Ven, so how nice can he really be dumping him off at some place that he himself thinks is 'prison like'.

Don't get me wrong though, I love Destiny Islands and think it is beautiful and that it would be a great place to live.
 

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Xehanort took Ven as an apprentice because he wanted him to be his new body and recreate the Xblade with his pure heart. That's all. No sentimental connection or whatsoever. Xehanort has always believed that the islands were a prison, so it doesn't mean anything good if he left someone without a way to get out from there imprisoned.
 

Izayoi

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Actually, Sora linking with YMX makes sense.

It would ultimately make the slightly-more-innocent YMX do something good in the end in some big ironic twist. Sora would find the good in him before he turns completely evil and they would fight the older self, knowing paradoxically that things would turn out okay in the end. Considering the whole memory-wipe thing that happens with time travel, YMX would just grow up having a heart link power inherited from Sora (due to his own undeniable strength of heart) without knowing why or how.

So in the end, Sora will still be the single CHOSEN ONE who was able to connect his heart. Xehanort will never have been his "evil opposite"; his power will have come from Sora, the single greatest fucking being in the universe.
 
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