About Ven's heart.

[Veriun]

Sorry if this has been brought up before. Also, since this is the spoiler section, I'm not going out of my way as far as spoiler tags are concerned.

Anyway, I was thinking about how Ven's heart is supposed to heal - after all, it's been in Sora for 10+ years and hasn't made much of a recovery so far, and I don't see it suddenly getting better in a shiny light show either.

What if it's already healed, though?

I keep thinking how Days is the most useless addition to the series. It added nothing new except angst, Xion, more angst, and more Xion. But watching Roxas' development got me curious - recall that he was pretty much a zombie at the start of the game. For the first days he's acting like an emotionless sod and gives people a dumb look when they ask him anything remotely resembling a question.

By day 358, not only does he cry, but he dual wields Ven's Keyblade as well.

Ven's heart, going by his physical state in the beginning and end of BBS, cannot function like a normal heart. It doesn't allow for emotions or awareness or anything. However, we're told that, given enough time, it would probably heal on its own. The reason why we haven't seen this development earlier (like, oh, say... the 10 years he spent inside Sora's heart) could be because he was inside Sora's heart. If a child is never given challenges, but nursed by the parents in a world where nothing wrong can happen, the child will never grow. Likewise, Ven, safely hidden within Sora, was unable to get the necessary stimuli for his recovery to happen. Sora becoming a Heartless, and thus separating from him, fixed that.

I'm not writing Sora off as completely unnecessary. I believe that his influence did heal Ven, up to the point where the body didn't go into a coma once Ven got in control, but in order to grow beyond that stage, Roxas' experience was needed. As to why he returned to Sora if he supposedly was completely fine, well, Kairi stayed in Sora's body too, even when he was right beside her. And his heart did make an attempt to return to his body, if Roxas' fainting spell in CO is anything to go by.


...yeah. Let the flames begin.

 

[Key]

Sorry if this has been brought up before. Also, since this is the spoiler section, I'm not going out of my way as far as spoiler tags are concerned.

Anyway, I was thinking about how Ven's heart is supposed to heal - after all, it's been in Sora for 10+ years and hasn't made much of a recovery so far, and I don't see it suddenly getting better in a shiny light show either.

What if it's already healed, though?

I keep thinking how Days is the most useless addition to the series. It added nothing new except angst, Xion, more angst, and more Xion. But watching Roxas' development got me curious - recall that he was pretty much a zombie at the start of the game. For the first days he's acting like an emotionless sod and gives people a dumb look when they ask him anything remotely resembling a question.

By day 358, not only does he cry, but he dual wields Ven's Keyblade as well.

Ven's heart, going by his physical state in the beginning and end of BBS, cannot function like a normal heart. It doesn't allow for emotions or awareness or anything. However, we're told that, given enough time, it would probably heal on its own. The reason why we haven't seen this development earlier (like, oh, say... the 10 years he spent inside Sora's heart) could be because he was inside Sora's heart. If a child is never given challenges, but nursed by the parents in a world where nothing wrong can happen, the child will never grow. Likewise, Ven, safely hidden within Sora, was unable to get the necessary stimuli for his recovery to happen. Sora becoming a Heartless, and thus separating from him, fixed that.

I'm not writing Sora off as completely unnecessary. I believe that his influence did heal Ven, up to the point where the body didn't go into a coma once Ven got in control, but in order to grow beyond that stage, Roxas' experience was needed. As to why he returned to Sora if he supposedly was completely fine, well, Kairi stayed in Sora's body too, even when he was right beside her. And his heart did make an attempt to return to his body, if Roxas' fainting spell in CO is anything to go by.


...yeah. Let the flames begin.

You know, i think you're on to something. If you consider the parts i've bolded, this theory makes a whole lot of sense and is actually somewhat possible.

I'm glad you pointed out Roxas' fainting spell in CO, because that also had me curious, after watching BbS and re-playing Days. What if he actually was reacting to Ven's presence? Nomura said that there would be a lot of connections between BbS and Days ---- this could have been done on purpose.

 

[Vani]

You know, i think you're on to something. If you consider the parts i've bolded, this theory makes a whole lot of sense and is actually somewhat possible.

I'm glad you pointed out Roxas' fainting spell in CO, because that also had me curious, after watching BbS and re-playing Days. What if he actually was reacting to Ven's presence? Nomura said that there would be a lot of connections between BbS and Days ---- this could have been done on purpose.

thats old news, he did faint because he got to close. i think its fairly obvious.

nice theory by the way. it makes sense.

 

[TheBucket]

Wow, this is a really interesting theory. Especially because, even still, we know next to nothing about how the heart works. We know basically how it reacts to changes in Light and Darkness, and that "death" is more of a reincarnation type of thing, but we don't know how a damaged heart gets fixed. Well, by normal means anyways. By that I'm referencing Sora at the end of CoM. His chain of memories, and therefore his heart, was basically a broken pile of Pluto's...nevermind. Anyways, we know he, for the most part, got healed again, but only because of Namine. What if she hadn't healed him? Would his sleep have fixed it in time anyways? I think so, but it would have taken much more time than a year. Namine definitely helped the process.

At the same time though, Ven's heart is different in how it was broken. He didn't simply have his memories fumbled with, he literally had half of it torn out, and then was only alive based on his connection to Sora and his friendships with Terra and Aqua.

But anyways, at this point in the story, about a month after KHII, I see Ven's heart as being fully healed, but still resting--no, WAITING inside Sora. Like Veriun said, because of Roxas' experiences, Ven's heart is now most likely fully healed. That brings up the question of why he went back into Sora, however. Well, I have two answers, both of which could have happened at the same time.

1.] Roxas simply had no idea, as anyone else did, that he was in fact essentially Ven, but using Sora's body as a surrogate for a Nobody. So therefore, whenever he felt it was time to become complete again, he went back into Sora to become "complete."

2.] Going back to Sora might have been influence from Ven's heart. Even though it was healed, he knew he wasn't close to his body, so he decided to wait inside Sora until Sora was close to Ven's body, and then his heart would seperate and rejoin with it.

Really all of this will be explained once Sora goes back to Castle Oblivion (I say that instead of "in KHIII" or "in the next game," because we have no idea when that's going to happen.)

 

[Aquaman OS]

Ven' heart probably can't just go back into his body on it's own. It probably needs to be released with a Keyblade. Kairi's heart was totally undamaged and yet even after Sora was right by her body Sora had to use the Keyblade to get her heart out.

 

[Reika]

Ven' heart probably can't just go back into his body on it's own. It probably needs to be released with a Keyblade. Kairi's heart was totally undamaged and yet even after Sora was right by her body Sora had to use the Keyblade to get her heart out.

I thought Ven's heart and Sora's heart were merged into one? Which means it can't be released without releasing Sora's heart as well, since they are one.
KH1 is proof of this, since Ven's heart was not released when he used the Keyblade on himself at Hollow Bastion.

 

[Aquaman OS]

Ven's heart actually stayed in Sora's body (ie Roxas) when Sora's and Kairi's hearts were released, either because it hadn't healed yet or because it's actual body wasn't nearby. It's connected to Sora's heart but not permanently merged. When Sora's heart began to turn into a Heartless Ven's heart (which can't turn into a Heartless by virtue of having no darkness like a POH) seperated from it and remained with the body. So it can, and did still leave if it needs to.

 

[Reika]

Oh, yeah. The Ven's-heart-in-Roxas thing slipped my mind. Scratch my last post, then. xD

I really do like this theory. It makes sense, and is obviously well-thought out. Well done. ^_^

2.] Going back to Sora might have been influence from Ven's heart. Even though it was healed, he knew he wasn't close to his body, so he decided to wait inside Sora until Sora was close to Ven's body, and then his heart would seperate and rejoin with it.

Is it possible Ven's heart mistook Sora's body as it's own as the reason to influencing Roxas' return to Sora?

 

[Aquaman OS]

Since Roxas passed out in CO because Ven's heart reacted to it's own body in addition to Roxas's (Sora's) body reacting to it's original heart I think Ven's heart knows quite well which body it belongs to.

 

[Allister Rose]

i believe ven's heart fully awaken in kh2

 

[Aqualung]

Except now Roxas is back with Sora so he still has Ven's heart. Every time Sora had a heart within him, he had to release it with a keyblade. My theory is that Sora (or Aqua once she's freed from the dark realm, since she IS a keyblade master) is going to unlock his heart to get Ven's heart out.

Also, something that bugs me is why didn't Sora pass out when he was RIGHT UNDERNEATH KAIRI on Captain Hook's ship? Wouldn't you think her heart would have made an attempt to return, or is there something about Ven's heart that allows it to try and return? Or is it just another one of Nomura's retcons? I think they should remake KH1 to relate better to all the recent plot developments but that's just me.

 

[Allister Rose]

Except now Roxas is back with Sora so he still has Ven's heart. Every time Sora had a heart within him, he had to release it with a keyblade. My theory is that Sora (or Aqua once she's freed from the dark realm, since she IS a keyblade master) is going to unlock his heart to get Ven's heart out.

Also, something that bugs me is why didn't Sora pass out when he was RIGHT UNDERNEATH KAIRI on Captain Hook's ship? Wouldn't you think her heart would have made an attempt to return, or is there something about Ven's heart that allows it to try and return? Or is it just another one of Nomura's retcons? I think they should remake KH1 to relate better to all the recent plot developments but that's just me.

i think it's different becuase Kairi's heart wasn't damaged unlike ven's.

 

[riku_kicks_butt]

Sounds catchy. But. Roxas getting better over time would have nothing to do with vens heart. Because a nobody has no heart. and no heart affects them.

 

[Allister Rose]

Sounds catchy. But. Roxas getting better over time would have nothing to do with vens heart. Because a nobody has no heart. and no heart affects them.

if that's true then he would have looked exactly like sora and not have any emotions.

his heart did affect him in some way and did get an awakening, though i doubt it was for him

 

[Aqualung]

i think it's different becuase Kairi's heart wasn't damaged unlike ven's.

Then why would it have tried to return in Castle Oblivion from Roxas if it was still damaged? Wouldn't that mean Ven would die if it returned to him? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[riku_kicks_butt]

if that's true then he would have looked exactly like sora and not have any emotions.

his heart did affect him in some way and did get an awakening, though i doubt it was for him

From the way Axel was talking. It seemed like all the nobodies are zombie like at first. and i meant that like. He couldnt affect the heart. and it couldnt affect him after it made him. Like it only decides what they look like. but they have no connection. lol

EDIT: The first part there was just for if you meant it awakened him by making him stop acting zombie like

 

[Allister Rose]

Then why would it have tried to return in Castle Oblivion from Roxas if it was still damaged? Wouldn't that mean Ven would die if it returned to him? Doesn't make sense to me...

i'm not so sure, it also could be because sora was a whole person and roxas was a nobody who simply had the heart in him, meaning kairi's heart weas more secured in kh1 than ven's heart was in kh2..

Also sora saw some images of kairi, it could be that he was close to her

 

[Aquaman OS]

Also, something that bugs me is why didn't Sora pass out when he was RIGHT UNDERNEATH KAIRI on Captain Hook's ship? Wouldn't you think her heart would have made an attempt to return, or is there something about Ven's heart that allows it to try and return?

Roxas passed out because he was getting a double whammy. His body was reacting to Sora in Heartless/Heart form (who was still in the chamber in the Castle and hadn't been moved at that point.) and his heart was reacting to Ven's body which was also in the Castle. It was because he had two original selves and both of them where trying to take him back so his being was basically being torn in two. According to the BBS Ultimania anyway.

Meanwhile Roxas is able to come into to contact with just Sora in TT later on and be alright and Sora could come into contact with Kairi's body and be alright because just one person they could take. Roxas had two people calling out to him and it overwhelmed him.

 

[Relix]

I think this theory is actually well thought out and gives the relation between Roxas and Ven more light and purpose. Good job, wonder how Ven will get his heart back.