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Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is it.



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Takfloyd

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Okay, this is a big one. And it's complicated, so don't comment on it until you understand everything I've said.

Mysteries that are perfectly solved by this theory:
1: Why can Roxas use two keyblades?
2: Why do they take the form of the Oathkeeper and Oblivion?
3: Why does Xion have a Keyblade, and why is it "fake"?
4: Why does Riku have the Way to Dawn Keyblade in KH2?
5: Why could Riku snatch and use Roxas' keyblade in Deep Dive?
6: What happens to Xion in the end?
7: Why does Kairi use a Keyblade in that scene in KH2?

Here goes:

Roxas, at the time he entered the Organization, could only use the Kingdom Key. This is what he's been seen to use in 358/2 Days thus far. Xion, when she entered the scene, didn't have the ability to use a Keyblade at all at that point, according to this theory. Be getting to that later, but first of all, I'll explain how Roxas got hold of his second Keyblade, which in this case would be the Oblivion.

Roxas has the Oblivion because he obtained it from Riku. Like the Ansem Reports say, Riku lost to Roxas once before the Deep Dive fight. That's most likely when Roxas got the Oblivion. But Riku had no Keyblade, you say? Well, what about the Way to Dawn Keyblade he uses in KH2? He can easily have had that since not long after CoM, then lost it to Roxas early in Days' story. Then, he probably regained it when Roxas disappeared. But at that time, he had taken the form of Xehanort's Heartless, and was unable to use the Way to Dawn because of his Darkness. As soon as he regains his original body in KH2, he's immediately able to use the Way to Dawn again, proving he had it with him all along. Oh, and get this: It would explain why Roxas couldn't summon the Oblivion back from Riku in the Deep Dive fight: It was Riku's in the first place! As to why it changed shape from the Way to Dawn to the Oblivion... well, it's not really a problem at all. Keyblades in the KH series change shape all the time.

Furthermore, this means that most likely, the Keyblade Riku gives Kairi in KH2 is the very same Keyblade, changed shape again to reflect Kairi instead of Riku/Roxas. Since he couldn't use it himself, why not lend it to Kairi? Afterwards, he simply got it back, and that explains why it's never seen again.

All of this has been rather basic stuff though and I'm sure it has been posted before. But now it gets interesting.

Sure, the Oblivion is now explained, but what about the Oathkeeper? Did his original Keyblade take that shape just to reflect Sora's connection to Kairi(Remember, the original Oathkeeper is simply Kairi's good luck charm chained to Sora's Keyblade)? No, it didn't!

For this theory to fit, Xion must be heavily connected to Kairi. I prefer the Aqua theory or even the Zexion theory myself, but that's not what the trailers are leaning towards. So, assuming Xion is related to Kairi...
Roxas has the Oathkeeper because he fights Xion, defeats her, and obtains her keyblade. Yup, the same way he defeats Riku to get the Oblivion, which makes a lot of sense. Remember what Sephiroth once said? That he'd be the Keyblade's wielder if he defeated Sora? As did Jack Sparrow. This isn't a mechanic that has ever been brought up by major characters in the games, but it could very well be fact: When you defeat a Keyblade Master, you can possibly obtain his/her Keyblade as it sees the victor a more worthy wielder. This is thus related to how the Keyblade of KH1 kept switching sides between Sora and Riku. So, late in the story, Roxas has to fight Xion(it's bound to happen at some point anyway), and gain the Oathkeeper, and from then on you always dual-wield.

So why the heck has that Keyblade now taken the form of the Oathkeeper? Xion is seen to wield the Kingdom Key in all trailers, after all. Well, that's because all those trailers are from earlier points in the game. The Kingdom Key probably doesn't change into the Oathkeeper until this final showdown, most likely when Xion dies. This is because Xion is assumed to be some "alternate form" of Kairi, like Naminé, and when she "dies", she probably returns to Kairi. Like Riku says to her in the trailer: "Why haven't you returned to your original self?" or something like that. So when that happens, her Keyblade becomes tied to Kairi and takes the Oathkeeper form.

Now you may ask: But how come Roxas couldn't dual-wield before? Does Roxas have THREE keyblades now or what?

But you see, this is when it gets REALLY interesting. You see, this explains the mystery we've all heard, on how Xion "stole" Roxas' Keyblade. Like I said, I think Xion didn't originally have the ability to wield a Keyblade. I'm thinking that after Roxas steals Riku's Keyblade(early in the story), Xion steals the original one from Roxas(The Kingdom Key) and therefore you still only have one Keyblade... until, like I said, you defeat Xion and regain it, and by then it has changed into the Oathkeeper because of the Kairi connection.

So the Kingdom Key Xion is seen to wield in the trailers is in fact the Keyblade Roxas originally had.
This means that Xion probably defeats Roxas in a fight halfway through the story, so she can obtain this Keyblade. Or maybe it is a tie, which would be why they get one each. I'm assuming this fight will take place gameplay-wise right after Roxas' first fight against Riku, so that Roxas never gets to dual-wield until after beating BOTH Riku and Xion.

So the basic timeline is as follows:

1: Roxas joins Org. XIII with the Kingdom Key
2: Riku somehow obtains Way to Dawn, this will be dealt with in a currently untold story about Riku's journey between KH1 and KH2, as mentioned by Nomura
3: Xion joins, she has no Keyblade at the time
4: Roxas and Riku fight, Riku loses and Roxas gets the Way to Dawn, which changes into the Oblivion
5: Xion fights Roxas and steals his Kingdom Key, then defects from the Organization
6: Riku defeats Xion at Beast's Castle and calls her Kingdom Key a fake, which it kinda is
7: Much later, Roxas and Xion have a final battle which ends with Xion getting killed. The Kingdom Key has now transformed into the Oathkeeper because Xion is connected to Kairi. Expect an emotional scene here
8: Riku and Roxas fight at Memories' Skyscraper (Deep Dive). Riku snatches the Oblivion, which was originally his, and uses it to defeat Roxas
9: As seen in KH2 FM, Roxas makes a comeback, takes back the Oblivion and defeats Riku
10: Riku is forced to untie his blindfold, he changes to the form of Xehanort and defeats Roxas as seen in KH2 FM, but Roxas still has dominion over both Keyblades
11: Roxas lives in the virtual Twilight Town. At the end, he is able to summon the Oathkeeper and Oblivion against Axel, proving he still has them. He then merges with Sora
12: Riku regains the Way to Dawn when Roxas disappears, but is unable to use it in his current form
13: Riku lends Kairi the Way to Dawn, which changes shape again to one more befitting Kairi
14: Kairi gives back the Way to Dawn
15: Riku is restored to normal, and is now able to wield the Way to Dawn again

*phew*
As far as I can tell, this theory has no holes and explains a LOT. Unfortunately, it also means Xion is indeed connected to Kairi and not Aqua, much to my dismay.

Still, if anyone who's knowledgeable on Kingdom Hearts lore can find any mistakes or problems with this theory, please speak up. Don't do so unless you REALLY know what you're talking about though!
 

Crimson Jazz

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Roxas can use two keyblades because he's the Nobody of a Keyblade Master.

Roxas' keyblades take the form of the Oathkeeper and Oblivion because they represent Sora's memories of Kairi and Riku.

Riku has Way to Dawn Keyblade in KH2 because since the Soul Eater is created from the then current darkness in Riku's heart, Riku finally decided to use both light and darkness, which he needed to use in order to wield the keyblade, and the Soul Eater changed to reflect the change of heart within Riku.

Kairi uses a Keyblade in that scene in KH2 because Riku gave it to her. She fed of off Riku to wield it.
 

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

(I'll edit my post after I finish reading your theory, but for now, I'll just address what was stated in the first few paragraphs.)

First of all, Roxas had both Oathkeeper and Oblivion at the time of Deep Dive, thus disproving your answers to questions one, two, and five.
Next, Way to Dawn is an enhanced form of the Soul Eater, which changed shape in order to fit Riku's heart after he had claimed the darkness in his heart for his own.
Also, no keyblade can be taken from another keyblade master by another keyblade master; Riku was able to weild Oblivion because Roxas is Sora's nobody, and because Sora's keyblade, no matter what shape or form it takes, was originally meant for Riku.
 
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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Everyone keeps saying the Soul Eater is created from the Darkness in Riku's heart, but where was that stated?

Oh and, as for your time line, #2 is wrong. Riku doesnt get the WtD until the end/near the end of KH2. aaaand i still need to read the rest of the theory :3
 
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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

It is far from bullet proof, unfortunately.

- Roxas's ability to dual wield is intended to explain how Sora gets the ability, whereas this theory would destroy that relation. And, in any case, the Keyblade is essentially supposed to split. That is to say, when Sora drives for the first time, for instance, he does not become the owner of a second keyblade. It's simply his ability to divide the keyblade into two. How this is possible, we don't know yet.

- Riku gains the Way to Dawn keyblade sometimes toward the end of KH2. We first seem him with it in TWTNW. But before that, in scenes like the one where Sora fights Riku in The Land of the Dragon, he is using the Soul Eater. So, that means that the WtD cannot have appeared sometime not long after CoM, as you yourself said.

- There's nothing to suggest that after someone is defeated, the victor can claim the Keyblade. Sephiroth said (along the lines of, "Perhaps it will change its mind... once I defeat you." Meaning that he didn't actually know. A keyblade has a chosen wielder, it makes no sense that it could just go to someone else on a whim and become their keyblade. The only case where this is an exception is with Riku and Sora, since both happened to be chosen wielders due to several incidents.
 

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

(I'll edit my post after I finish reading your theory, but for now, I'll just address what was stated in the first few paragraphs.)

First of all, Roxas had both Oathkeeper and Oblivion at the time of Deep Dive, thus disproving your answers to questions one, two, and five.
Next, Way to Dawn is an enhanced form of the Soul Eater, which changed shape in order to fit Riku's heart after he had claimed the darkness in his heart for his own.
Also, no keyblade can be taken from another keyblade master by another keyblade master; Riku was able to weild Oblivion because Roxas is Sora's nobody, and because Sora's keyblade, no matter what shape or form it takes, was originally meant for Riku.

This ^ and it cant be true because Oblivion and Oathkeeper are Sora/Roxas's keyblade! they were made from sora's memories of Riku and Kairi( according to what everyone says). The only keyblade that riku is able to weild is Way to dawn and possibly the gayblade ( the keyblade he gave to Kairi).
 

Takfloyd

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Seriously... I'm going to disregard any replies from people who don't read and understand my whole post. T-M, your post is full of the exact "common consensus" fan ideas that I'm disproving in my post, not to mention they're flat-out wrong.

Glaurung, looking forward to your edited reply when you've finished reading. The way it is now, you don't know what you're talking about. One thing though:

Also, no keyblade can be taken from another keyblade master by another keyblade master; Riku was able to weild Oblivion because Roxas is Sora's nobody, and because Sora's keyblade, no matter what shape or form it takes, was originally meant for Riku.

This is called self-contradiction. Plus I'm addressing that problem in my post.
 
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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Keyblade Wielders can use other people's Keyblades, it's just that they can't summon them.
This is evident by:
-Riku wielding the Oblivion during the fight against Riku and Roxas
-Riku holding the Kingdom Key and swinging it in the fight with Xion (though, debateable due to the 'is it fake or not' thing)
-Kairi using the Gayblade (again, debatable due to Kairi seemingly not being a true Keyblade Wielder)
-Sora using the Way to Dawn in the final battle against Xemnas.
 

Crimson Jazz

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Seriously... I'm going to disregard any replies from people who don't read and understand my whole post. T-M, your post is full of the exact "common consensus" fan ideas that I'm disproving in my post, not to mention they're flat-out wrong.

They aren't flat out wrong.

Roxas is able to wield Keyblades because he is the Nobody of a Keyblade Master.
Roxas' keyblades take the form of the Oathkeeper and Oblivion because they represent Sora's memories of Kairi and Riku.
 

Takfloyd

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Oh and, as for your time line, #2 is wrong. Riku doesnt get the WtD until the end/near the end of KH2. aaaand i still need to read the rest of the theory :3

Exactly, you didn't read it. Can't you please listen to what I said. READ FIRST, THEN POST!

- Roxas's ability to dual wield is intended to explain how Sora gets the ability, whereas this theory would destroy that relation. And, in any case, the Keyblade is essentially supposed to split. That is to say, when Sora drives for the first time, for instance, he does not become the owner of a second keyblade. It's simply his ability to divide the keyblade into two. How this is possible, we don't know yet.

No, the Keyblade is NOT divided into two. Sora actually gets a second Keyblade along with his new garments in KH2, and this is the same keyblade that Mickey is seen using in BbS. And NO, I don't mean that "they're both the Star Seeker". I mean that they're literally the same Keyblade, and this second Keyblade can have multiple different looks depending on the Keychain, exactly like Sora's regular Keyblade. Nomura himself has said that characters' abilitiies to use two Keyblades have a much deeper meaning than what we are supposed to know so far.

- Riku gains the Way to Dawn keyblade sometimes toward the end of KH2. We first seem him with it in TWTNW. But before that, in scenes like the one where Sora fights Riku in The Land of the Dragon, he is using the Soul Eater. So, that means that the WtD cannot have appeared sometime not long after CoM, as you yourself said.

READ ENTIRE POST PLEASE.
- There's nothing to suggest that after someone is defeated, the victor can claim the Keyblade. Sephiroth said (along the lines of, "Perhaps it will change its mind... once I defeat you." Meaning that he didn't actually know. A keyblade has a chosen wielder, it makes no sense that it could just go to someone else on a whim and become their keyblade. The only case where this is an exception is with Riku and Sora, since both happened to be chosen wielders due to several incidents.

Sora and Riku trading the Keyblade back and forth in KH1 should be proof enough that Keyblades can change masters. We've not actually seen this "defeat mechanic" in action, but it does seem likely, as it's a typical idea for a Squeenix RPG, and it would explain Sephiroth's line of though.
This ^ and it cant be true because Oblivion and Oathkeeper are Sora/Roxas's keyblade! they were made from sora's memories of Riku and Kairi( according to what everyone says). The only keyblade that riku is able to weild is Way to dawn and possibly the gayblade ( the keyblade he gave to Kairi).

Here we go again. "General fan consensus" has been killing KH discussion and theories for years now. There are TONS AND TONS of tidbits that everyone seems to take as facts that haven't ever been supported by the games or Nomura. That needs to stop.
 
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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

I don't need to read it to know that Riku didn't get the WtD until KH2... It's fact. Nomura says so.
Buuut, i shall read the theory now, and make a full response to it. :3
 

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

I see a few flaws.
1. Riku couldn't give Kairi WtD and let her use it. They were BOTH fighting in the cutscene.
2. The WtD transformed FROM the Soul Eater. That's exactly why it looks like it.
3. There is no specific requirement to wield two keyblades. Remember Sora's clothes? UMM, YEAH, I'm pretty sure the clothes weren't made out of Roxas.
4. If your defeated you won't get the keyblade, Sephiroth said "I wonder.. if I defeat you, it won't change it's mind." or something along those lines. That doesn't specifically mean that he'd get the keyblade.
5. Xion is probably Kairi's nobody, OR she could be the member in the organization coat in Coded. WE DON'T KNOW.
6. The reason that Oblivion and Oathkeeper were taken in form were because there is more than one keyblade, only chosen by different wielders. He just happened to get the keychains. Look, theres Way To Dawn also. Plus, Sora and Roxas would easily be able to summon the keyblade whilst Sora could, that's how they could fight using keyblades against each other AND how Roxas could summon the Keyblade while Sora was off to fight other people.
7. We're not sure if Xion is alive or dead.
8. It would make sense Xion could wield the keyblade since Kairi is a wielder. YES, she is, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to fight the heartless at TWTNW.
9. I won't point out anymore, there's just too many points that flaw bigtime.
 
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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

No, the Keyblade is NOT divided into two. Sora actually gets a second Keyblade along with his new garments in KH2, and this is the same keyblade that Mickey is seen using in BbS. And NO, I don't mean that "they're both the Star Seeker". I mean that they're literally the same Keyblade, and this second Keyblade can have multiple different looks depending on the Keychain, exactly like Sora's regular Keyblade. Nomura himself has said that characters' abilitiies to use two Keyblades have a much deeper meaning than what we are supposed to know so far.
>.>
The keyblade that Roxas used and the thing that Sora once lost in Castle Oblivion are the same thing. Furthermore, these two both used the keyblade at the same time. This can be explained by the relationship between Roxas and Sora. Thus, that both can wield two keyblades in fact has an important meaning. This is also related to Xehanort's memories, but this point can't be touched on just yet.
Their ability to dual wield is connected to each other, not from stealing others' keyblades.



READ ENTIRE POST PLEASE.
I did the first time and you're still wrong. Caps lock doesn't help you make it any less wrong.
 

Ordeith

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Methinks that a closing is just around the corner for this thread unless it starts moving in a productive direction.
 

WilliamTheWise

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Bullet_Hole_3.gif
Way to Dawn was first given to Riku at the End of KH other wise he would have used it during the battle at Deep Dive.​
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
The Reason Roxas can dual wield is because Sora is his other and he is the Keyblade master.
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
Riku could use Roxas's keyblade because of the reasons Audo said.:confused:
(Why is everyone changing their name all at once, man is is getting confusing)​
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
And yes those are bullet holes.​
 

Pinwheel

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Bullet_Hole_3.gif
Way to Dawn was first given to Riku at the End of KH other wise he would have used it during the battle at Deep Dive.​

Bullet_Hole_3.gif
The Reason Roxas can dual wield is because Sora is his other.
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
Riku could use Roxas's keyblade because of the reasons Audo said.:confused:
(Why is everyone changing their name all at once, man is is getting confusing)​
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
And yes those are bullet holes.​
Bullet_Hole_3.gif
This is in the heart of this thread. It's pretty much proven everything wrong so far. And I'm not sure why people are changing there name, it gets confusing :thumbdown:.
 

Ordeith

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Well, I gave this thread a shot to recover, and it didn't, as I predicted.
I hereby declare this thread closed.
 
A

Audo

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Re: Bulletproof theory regading Xion, Roxas, Riku, Kairi and their keyblades. This is

Okay, I've read it.

When someone duel wields, it is not two separate Keyblades. It is one Keyblade, split in two.
The Way to Dawn is a transformed version of the Soul Eater. It came from the Soul Eater. Without the Soul Eater, it can't exist.
Riku had the Soul Eater from KH1 -> KH2. In KH2 the Soul Eater turned into the Way to Dawn and stayed that way.
Proof that the Way to Dawn came from the Soul Eater:
Nomura said:
Keyblades aren't something that you can obtain suddenly out of nowhere so in Riku's case, his Soul Eater was used as an intermediary for that Keyblade.

Also, you said that Riku couldn't use the Way to Dawn because of his darkness and because he was in the form of Xehanort's Heartless, but when we first see the Way to Dawn in KH2, Riku is in the form of Xehanort and is using that Keyblade.

(bleh i feel like this post is so disorganized)

Roxas' Keyblade are meant to symbolize Riku and Kairi. This has been said by Nomura. Keychains seem to be made from memories. Therefore, seeing as how Roxas has no memories of being Sora, it only makes sense that the keyvhains are made from Sora's memories of Kairi and Riku and that Roxas can use them via his connection with Sora.

Oh, and Kairi's Keyblade (the Gayblade) is actually Riku's. And Riku created it by dual wielding (splitting his Keyblade in two)

No, the Keyblade is NOT divided into two. Sora actually gets a second Keyblade along with his new garments in KH2, and this is the same keyblade that Mickey is seen using in BbS. And NO, I don't mean that "they're both the Star Seeker". I mean that they're literally the same Keyblade, and this second Keyblade can have multiple different looks depending on the Keychain, exactly like Sora's regular Keyblade. Nomura himself has said that characters' abilitiies to use two Keyblades have a much deeper meaning than what we are supposed to know so far.
The keychain is the same. As the keychain was passed down from Yen Sid to Mickey to Sora. But Sora does not have two Keyblades. He has one keyblade.

Well, I gave this thread a shot to recover, and it didn't, as I predicted.
I hereby declare this thread closed.
=[ Not the message i was expecting to see after i had finished posting. ;-;
 
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