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Do you forgive him?



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Vanitas666

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And then proceed to go undercover as a nobody to make sure that your friend has a peaceful sleep while his memories are restored - and in the process, is forced to confront the darkness by immersing yourself in it again, lol.

And I definitely agree with you about KH characters being gullible.

+ the fact that he fell into darkness to begin with to save Kairi

and ever since I saw him in that dark costume he have been my favorite charachter (till Vanitas showed up) so I don't even have to forgive him. Had he kept that armor jet somehow gotten rid of Ansem he would still have been my favorite
 

Ven1028

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to be honest i hated riku all throughout the first game, especially when he stole the keyblade. it was just the worst situation for sora, his best friend turning on him. at the end of the game when riku helped sora close the door i finally forgave him. i realized his actions weren't his own and he was trying to make up for it.

plus sealing yourself in the dark realm with uncountable amounts of heartless...thats one heck of a way to say im sorry! but riku became one of my favorite characters because of his actions from the end of kh1 and through the other games. he tries really hard to right his wrongs and just the fact that he even attempts (and succeeds) to do that makes him ok in my book.
 

Zul

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At the end of CoM perhaps, but not at the end of KH1, he only gets over his douchiness after he gets possessed. He avoids turning back into a douche during CoM, so meh.


On the "people manipulated by Xehanort" scale, Terra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riku
 

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On the "people manipulated by Xehanort" scale, Terra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riku

I think a great part of it is that Xehanort needed to work harder to get Terra's Darkness strong enough, whereas Riku was already halfway there with wanting to leave the islands, and his whole jealous issue towards Sora. Maleficent and XH didn't need to work too hard, Sora was helping them unintentionally and constantly, as opposed to Terra only running like once into Aqua in Radiant Garden.
 

Ven1028

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I think a great part of it is that Xehanort needed to work harder to get Terra's Darkness strong enough, whereas Riku was already halfway there with wanting to leave the islands, and his whole jealous issue towards Sora. Maleficent and XH didn't need to work too hard, Sora was helping them unintentionally and constantly, as opposed to Terra only running like once into Aqua in Radiant Garden.

I never put that together. That is so true and yet it blows my mind.
 

Zul

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I think a great part of it is that Xehanort needed to work harder to get Terra's Darkness strong enough, whereas Riku was already halfway there with wanting to leave the islands, and his whole jealous issue towards Sora. Maleficent and XH didn't need to work too hard, Sora was helping them unintentionally and constantly, as opposed to Terra only running like once into Aqua in Radiant Garden.


Right, I didn't think they needed to work as hard on Riku as MX had to work on Terra, that's why I thought Terra was better, he wasn't so quick to resort to petty jealousy. He didn't express any envy at all towards Aqua when his dream got crushed in the MoM exam, only getting angry at the fact that he wasn't named master. Only when Aqua started coming off as a babysitter did he get angry at her, which was rather justified on his part.
 

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Right, I didn't think they needed to work as hard on Riku as MX had to work on Terra, that's why I thought Terra was better, he wasn't so quick to resort to petty jealousy. He didn't express any envy at all towards Aqua when his dream got crushed in the MoM exam, only getting angry at the fact that he wasn't named master. Only when Aqua started coming off as a babysitter did he get angry at her, which was rather justified on his part.

Actually, one can argue that Terra was jealous of Aqua, and that's part of why the Radiant Garden thing hurt him that badly - more-so than the old friend, it was the old friend who did what he dreamed of doing that got on his case, calling him out. First he failed, and now the star-student was getting on his back. It's Aqua Eraqus trusts, Aqua who's so much better, Aqua, the Light-affiliated True Master. I'm hardly saying that was all there was to it, as opposed to Riku, but it's not unthinkable that it played a part in the mess. Especially with the perfect timing -
Cue Master Xehanort patting his ego back into health by calling him Master Terra. It adds up quite nicely, even if it's not that dominant a factor to his Darkness issues as it is for Riku.

We also don't know how long Riku's been having his issues to say that Terra's better than him. For all we know, it was a gradual process, one Riku could've been fighting for a good decade. It's just that for Riku, what we get shown is his downfall and eventual redemption, as opposed to Terra's struggle. Then we also have the fact that unlike Terra who got his own scenario, Riku in KH1 never really got to show what went through his mind. We know he regretted it in hind-sight but proper in-game canon never showed what he was going through during KH beyond the whole Tug-O-War and 'roar, I'm better' issue with Sora. That makes it easy to miss all those times where Riku does seem to be struggling, wanting to reach back to Sora, to somehow not break away, but then Sora pushes him away, or at least creates enough of a pattern for Riku to think that's what he's doing. Which in a sense is pretty damn ironic because of the sheer amount of numbers Riku and Sora got to meet during KH, as opposed to TAV's few, plot-oriented meetings in BBS. I'd sooner say Terra's jealousy issues just didn't get the chance to be presented, but that's one of the things that irk me overall in BBS - they were rushing to get to all the scenes Nomura thought of back during KHII (the final battle, Terra and Aqua's visits to DI, etc) that they forgot they needed to make the trip there beliveable.

I think that's part of why I enjoyed Re:Coded so much and am finally looking forward to 3D - we don't know of any scenes from that game so far from the previous games, as opposed to BBS's conclusion and Days' Deep Dive xD;
 

Zul

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Actually, one can argue that Terra was jealous of Aqua, and that's part of why the Radiant Garden thing hurt him that badly - more-so than the old friend, it was the old friend who did what he dreamed of doing that got on his case, calling him out. First he failed, and now the star-student was getting on his back. It's Aqua Eraqus trusts, Aqua who's so much better, Aqua, the Light-affiliated True Master. I'm hardly saying that was all there was to it, as opposed to Riku, but it's not unthinkable that it played a part in the mess.

I don't think it's unthinkable either, but I find it highly unlikely, mostly due to the fact that we also get to see Terra sort of "contemplate" in his own mind what's going on. Most of it has to do with his own relation to the darkness in his heart, hardly at all does he mention Aqua in a jealous manner. The only time when anger was openly expressed towards Aqua was in RG, and I felt that wasn't due to previous jealousy, but due to the realization that the one he trusted was willing to spy on him.



We also don't know how long Riku's been having his issues to say that Terra's better than him.
I argue that he's "better" from the perspective of how he treated his friends in the situation he was in, which I felt was more of core factor in his character compared to the other factors. I'm not trying to argue that he was objectively better in every possible way.

Riku's understanding of darkness, for example, is superior to Terra's in that he understands that it is a part of everything. Even though Terra uses darkness, he always comes off as if he's bearing a curse of darkness rather than something that isn't inherently evil.





I'd sooner say Terra's jealousy issues just didn't get the chance to be presented.
The fact that he got his own scenario yet didn't present jealousy is what inclines me away from that. He had more of an opportunity to show jealousy, yet he didn't. Riku displayed it blatantly in the few scenes he got.

but that's one of the things that irk me overall in BBS - they were rushing to get to all the scenes Nomura thought of back during KHII (the final battle, Terra and Aqua's visits to DI, etc) that they forgot they needed to make the trip there beliveable.
Want to know why Kairi fought in KH2?

Deep Dive: "This time, I'll fight" had to be put in there. They wanted to put all the lines that flashed for a split second in Deep Dive into the game.

They even had MX part clouds to reveal KH as the CG movie showed , when the reports IN the game stated that KH appears when the X-Blade is forged.

I think that's part of why I enjoyed Re:Coded so much and am finally looking forward to 3D - we don't know of any scenes from that game so far from the previous games, as opposed to BBS's conclusion and Days' Deep Dive xD;
Deep Dive showed one battle at the beginning of KH2(that ended up looking hideously tacky in every incarnation other than the CG one), BBS(the trailer) showed the big climactic scene, which was a mistake to do imo, even though it looked awesome at the time.
 

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I argue that he's "better" from the perspective of how he treated his friends in the situation he was in, which I felt was more of core factor in his character compared to the other factors. I'm not trying to argue that he was objectively better in every possible way.

This is actually another interesting part since if you ask Riku, chances are he'll tell you it's all Sora's fault and that he was in the wrong. For better or worse Riku tried reaching out to Sora, but felt that Sora abandoned him. If Riku wanted to be free from the islands, Sora was suddenly free from Riku when he brought Donald and Goofy in. In a way, Sora was the one who made the first offense.
Riku spits it out clear as day in Neverland - he's the one who sticks by 'old friends' whereas Sora ran around with his new buddies, abandoning his old ones. Was he a bastard to Sora? Yes, but look at each and every scene between him and Maleficent - he truly was hurt by Sora and thought that Sora deserved it.
He also tried to reach out to Sora in Monstro, but was denied - when all he wanted was for them to save one of the other lone survivors from his world.
That's a great part of why I can't blame Riku for KH1 - Sora has quite a bit of blame to deal with himself, as he's been presented in such a light that it's like he took the friendship with Riku for granted, to the point it seems like he so easily discarded it. See again Maleficent not needing to work too hard to twist reality around - Sora was helping her more than a bit, making Riku out to be, in a way, the better friend here.

Want to know why Kairi fought in KH2?

That's actually one of the things that bug me a tiny bit less since it's not like the entire game led up to that moment, like in Days or BBS.
Though that is yet another example of how they basically shoot themselves in the foot whenever they do whole scenes in the secret endings.
Maybe that's why I'm somewhat pleased with BBS:FM and Re:Coded's endings - they're more continuations of the games rather than something they'll have to twist and break the story in order to reach it.

Deep Dive showed one battle at the beginning of KH2(that ended up looking hideously tacky in every incarnation other than the CG one), BBS(the trailer) showed the big climactic scene, which was a mistake to do imo, even though it looked awesome at the time.

It's more the atmospheres that irk me.
Days, for instance, started out with AkuRoku BFFing, and then it evolved into the RAX BFF. BUT they already established that Roxas left the Organization on his lonesome oh so dramatically and 'no one'd miss him', so they had to SOMEHOW get from BFF to emo-ville, in the process breaking Roxas's character.
In BBS they were so busy picking worlds based on how FUN they were, that they forgot that BBS isn't FUN. It's TAV breaking apart and the universe suffering from it. So instead of Aqua going ooooh and aaaah over Cinderella's world and having a worthless visit to the Dwarf Woodlands, they could've remembered that oh, BFFs Terra and Aqua will eventually want to rip each other's throats off, so maybe let's establish that more - but oh, Stitch is so cute, let's spam him instead~
*sigh*
 

ajmrowland

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He can be forgiven because his actions were mostly influenced and some not even his own

In BBS they were so busy picking worlds based on how FUN they were, that they forgot that BBS isn't FUN. It's TAV breaking apart and the universe suffering from it. So instead of Aqua going ooooh and aaaah over Cinderella's world and having a worthless visit to the Dwarf Woodlands, they could've remembered that oh, BFFs Terra and Aqua will eventually want to rip each other's throats off, so maybe let's establish that more - but oh, Stitch is so cute, let's spam him instead~
*sigh*

Well, Disney is still *supposed* to be important. I agree a few more moments of deep darkness for Aqua and likely the other two would do some good but not at the expense of what little levity there truly is in the game.
 
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magic713

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I think he can be forgiven. Most of his actions were done under the influence of darkness and other people. And he was working to redeem himself.
 

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Well, Disney is still *supposed* to be important.

Someone needs to go and replay KH1. Sans MAYBE the Coliseum, each world had a given, name-able purpose to it that drove either the plot or the characters forward. Hell even in CoM I can name meanings as each world foreshadowed another part of Sora and Namine's story, making it all known before the two came face to face. Even in Days it was somewhat bearable during the missions that had a point, because of how it affected Roxas as a character.
It's KHII and BBS that completely ignored the Disney :\

I agree a few more moments of deep darkness for Aqua and likely the other two would do some good but not at the expense of what little levity there truly is in the game.

I'd have settled for Aqua being the one hearing from Snow White that Terra 'attacked' her. It already would've made the Radiant Garden mess a lot more bearable.
 

.Oji

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When it all comes down to it, the question is - do we forgive Riku for being humane enough, for being weak enough that his Darkness got to him - something that was well enough established to be caused by the best of intentions as well.
And, well, yeah, I do. He messed it all up but I really can't blame him for it. If only because issues of blame aside -
He suffered enough.

"One day others may try to convince you they have forgiven you. That is more about them than you. For them, imparting forgiveness is a blessing" -- some quote I found, lol.

That said, I'm actually wondering if he (Riku) forgives himself, or is he blaming or continuing to blame himself for the error of his ways? How much of his memories―his "sins"―are gnawing on his conscience? How much do they weigh? If he were carrying a backpack, and all his misdeeds were in said backpack, what would that feel like? How deep would the straps be into his shoulders?

The more I think about "Riku" and "forgiveness" the more I see him becoming a sorta "atoner" figure, lugging around his backpack which he wants the burden of carrying; he puts on a cool face for his friends who're unaware of his laborious lifting. Makes me wonder whether or not something tragic will happen to him further down the line.

Also, Hi Smile! *hugs and kisses*
 

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.Oji ♥

Riku's actually one of the characters who seem likelier to get killed (not for real, this IS KH) or to be precise, heroically sacrifice himself (as opposed to half the cast already, lol...). He already went there when they were fighting Xemnas, taking one hell of a blow for Sora.

I think Riku won't ever be able to forgive himself, but the better question is will he accept what he's done. He's done wrong, and no, he won't just go on with his life, but the question is what good will it do and I think he came to realize it won't do anyone any good at the end of KHII thanks to Sora. By cutting ties with everyone he'll only be hurting them and himself more, and he might miss out on opportunities to help them if he's not by their side - him teleporting Kairi to TLTW for instance did get her away from Axel momentarily, but I think he could've done better by staying by her side - Saix was so scared of him he ran away once and then forced Riku out of the fight by forcing him to protect Kairi outside of the barrier. I doubt Kairi'd have gotten kidnapped had he been by her side, but he chose not to for his own issues and look at what happened.

But this is KH. I'm really hoping Sora'll help him pull through. Riku won't have to forgive himself if he just tries to be a better person, with his friends by his side. Otherwise he might as well become a Heartless and be done with it.
 

Nova9ine

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I forgive him. Actually, I can't even say I was ever really all that mad at Riku in the first place- I don't know. I mean I definitely understand how his actions in the first game could be considered "wrong," but at the same time, right and wrong are pretty... subjective, aren't they? In Riku's mind, at the time, I don't think he saw himself in the same light that he was portrayed to us in the game (from an outside point of view). He had his reasons for doing what he did, and to him I'm sure they were justifiable reasons, which is not to say that it excuses those things entirely. However, I don't believe Riku acted with the intention of being a "bad" person- or of hurting others, even- I think a lot of it stemmed from his own personal weaknesses and emotional hurt, sort of blinding him to the consequences.

And then there's the fact that he was genuinely sorry for everything he'd done, and I think it's important to remember also that he (along with most of the other protagonists in the series) was JUST A KID going through all this. Seriously. I mean, how many fifteen year olds do you know who are totally grown up and sure of themselves, never make mistakes or act somewhat self-centeredly, etc.? No offense to any fifteen year olds out there. :) Just saying, though. Despite the fact that he wanted to believe otherwise, Riku WAS immature in a lot of ways throughout the first game- understandably so- and he really had a lot of growing up to do.

I think where he was coming from coupled with the fact that he ended up redeeming himself in the end makes him a sympathetic character and definitely able to be forgiven for his mistakes. The great thing about Riku IMO is that he DID mess up, that he does have flaws, that he isn't perfect by any means but that there IS goodness in him, inherently, and that- even though it may be a long, hard journey- that goodness eventually ends up winning against the bad. It makes him human, it makes him interesting, and I think at the end of it all he walks away with a certain wisdom/balance that a lot of the other characters have yet to obtain (if ever). So yeah, to sum it up, Riku gets my forgiveness vote for sure. :)
 

Moonlight Aqua

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^^I almost feel like putting that in my signature. XD

Go right ahead. xD

25 charc... Short...

XD hahaha and sadly riku actually did "SUBMIT!" XD


xD Right? Oh! Click on my picture in my sign, of Aqua. It takes you to a topic here that talks about how the story is going and there is one about Ansem, and all his recarnations trying to go all over Terra and Riku. It's hilarious!
 
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