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Is Org XIII really THAT bad?



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Neku's nobody

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Just thinkin alaud out here. if you think about it the goals for the organization werent that evil. Of course they did cuestionable stuff by turning people into heartless but if they just waited for Sora to finish kingdom hearts do you really think it would be worth stopping them?
 

3keybladewielder

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Just thinkin alaud out here. if you think about it the goals for the organization werent that evil. Of course they did cuestionable stuff by turning people into heartless but if they just waited for Sora to finish kingdom hearts do you really think it would be worth stopping them?

they wanted kingdom hearts for there own and to become some 1
 

MasterLukeS

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Organization members themselves may not all be bad. However, the purpose of the Organization is bad, whether or not most of the members even know the final purpose or not is another issue.
 

Neku's nobody

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Yeah but it seems like the only member that really wants to do something evil with kingdom hearts is Xemnas and only him, like for example Saix constantly talked about the heart he never had and how if he had a second chance. It leads me to wonder what would have happened if Marluxia would have taken charge
 

UnstoppableSound

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Just thinkin alaud out here. if you think about it the goals for the organization werent that evil. Of course they did cuestionable stuff by turning people into heartless but if they just waited for Sora to finish kingdom hearts do you really think it would be worth stopping them?

-POST CONTAINS SPOILERS-

Yes the Organization was evil. Everyone seems to sympathize for them because they had a couple good seeds within their ranks (Roxas, Xion....that's about it). And no, we can't say for sure if Axel was considered a "good guy" because who knows what he did in his past to become a Nobody, especially since he had ties to Saix. Xemnas and the other five members who established the Organization became Nobodies because they wanted to abandon the so-called "shackles of emotion" that a heart would carry. They wanted unlimited power, not just to become whole beings again. And then not to mention the other members who clearly would not have done anything good with the power of Kingdom Hearts (Larxene, Marluxia...).

People really need to stop thinking that they just accidentally became Nobodies and were just all a bunch of lost beings who wanted to become whole again. Fact is, they did it for a reason, and nothing good could have happened if they achieved their goal.
 

Neku's nobody

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Xemnas and the other five members who established the Organization became Nobodies because they wanted to abandon the so-called "shackles of emotion" that a heart would carry. They wanted unlimited power, not just to become whole beings again. And then not to mention the other members who clearly would not have done anything good with the power of Kingdom Hearts (Larxene, Marluxia...).

People really need to stop thinking that they just accidentally became Nobodies and were just all a bunch of lost beings who wanted to become whole again. Fact is, they did it for a reason, and nothing good could have happened if they achieved their goal.
The thing is that you cant asume what marluxia would have done if he had taken over the orginization and Ireally dont know if it would have been good or bad and I have a little theory that saix was working on the side to assure that once he gained acces to kingdom hearts he made sure that he got a REAL HEART cause as we now know from all of the dialoge that includes Saix in KH2, he wanted to be whole again but not necceseraly to take over the worlds
 

Ventux

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

They didn't really care about the consequences of their dark actions, and in most cases relished them.

Doesn't really matter, considering that Xemnas was manipulating them to get the power of Kingdom Hearts (much like how Xehanort's heartless wanted the power of Kingdom Hearts).
 

Chakolat Strawberry

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

They're goals weren't evil, just how they achieved them were bad. Though I personally think they're misguided by Xemnas, who's really the only one that's truly evil, since his main goal was power. Everyone else was only in it for the heart.
 
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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

"Organization XIII. They're a bad group."
"Good or bad. I don't know."
---> Moral ambiguity. Coming from the one who was abused by them, no less.

Don't assume that just because someone is the antagonist that they are definably evil.
 

Ikkin

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Of course they did cuestionable stuff by turning people into heartless but if they just waited for Sora to finish kingdom hearts do you really think it would be worth stopping them?

It was necessary to stop the Organization from completing Kingdom Hearts even if they had no ulterior motives beyond getting their hearts back. 358/2 Days made it pretty clear, in my opinion - by collecting the hearts freed from Heartless into Kingdom Hearts, that meant those hearts couldn't go back to where they belonged. Remember the heart-shower at the end of KH2? Every single one of those hearts belonged to someone who would be, for all intents and purposes, dead until it returned. There's no way something like that could be overlooked just because the Organization are sympathetic.
 

Xorbok

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

I dont think there bad (look at Demyx!). Xemnas and Saix are EVIL! They just want hearts. Whats so wrong about that!
 

Neku's nobody

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

I dont think there bad (look at Demyx!). Xemnas and Saix are EVIL! They just want hearts. Whats so wrong about that!
if you think about it the founding members are the ones who are realy evil, Demyx and the others are either loveable goofs
or people who will do anything to get their hearts back. and you dont nessecarily need to want to free youre self from emotions to become a heartless and nobody you just need to have a strong will to becom a nobody, that is why xaldin was trying to turn beast into a heartless, cause he knew that beast was to strong to be killed by a mere heartless so he tryed the oldfashioned way. By making the person fall to darkness which would not only create a stong beast nobody but also a strong heartless which the organization could control
 

Zero Sora

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Well lets see...
1. They went around messing with worlds in order to turn people into powerful Heartless for Sora to kill.
2. They just wanted hearts, they didn't care whose they got from Kingdom Hearts. So twelve or thirteen people would be lost to darkness forever.
3. Xemnas wanted power. Marluxia, Larxene and II - VI probably wanted power. Saix just went around the wrong way to obtain a heart. Axel, Demyx and Luxord seemed to just want a heart. And Roxas... I don't really know if he actually wanted a heart
 

Marly

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

They're goals weren't evil, just how they achieved them were bad. Though I personally think they're misguided by Xemnas, who's really the only one that's truly evil, since his main goal was power. Everyone else was only in it for the heart.

Definitely this.


It's a pretty opinionated question to ask if they were truly bad. To me, they weren't. Well, like blt said, mostly misguided by Xemnas. Not to mention, they probably didn't see their actions as evil, they couldn't feel guilt, if no one had emotions, no one would be able to judge what was right or wrong. Just saying.
 

Ikkin

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Not to mention, they probably didn't see their actions as evil, they couldn't feel guilt, if no one had emotions, no one would be able to judge what was right or wrong. Just saying.

Axel kind of disproves this idea in one of his Secret Reports in 358/2 Days:

He realizes that using Riku-Replica like a tool the way he did was wrong, since he wasn't all that different from Xion (who Axel [i]definitely[/i] thought should not be used as a tool).

It goes to show that Nobodies can judge what's right and what's wrong - they just don't feel guilty if they act badly.

Not that Axel doesn't start to contradict that, too...
 

*TwilightNight*

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Axel isn't the best example to use if you want to prove emotions or judgment, to be honest, for the very reason that he contradicts it. Especially by the point in time he wrote that Secret Report.

He was just the same as the rest of them otherwise before he met Roxas, if CoM wasn't a clue.
 

XYZ

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Overall, the members of Organization XIII were told that they were working together to summon/create Kingdom Hearts in order to regain their lost Hearts.

Buuuuuuuut, what was actually going on was:

Xemnas was using the Organization so that once Kingdom Hearts was finally theirs (his), he would use its power to become a [I]god[/I] and then reshape existence in his image.

Other individuals within the Organization also seemed to stray from their set plans, like almost every member who was sent to Castle Oblivion, and they all acted rather nasty about it as well. Some examples include Marluxia and Larxene's plot to use Sora, Zexion and Lexeaus' plot to use Riku, Axel killing Vexen, Xaldin's tormenting of the Beast, Demyx stealing the Olympus Stone, Luxord cursing Jack Sparrow with the Aztec Gold, etc. All of these really had nothing to do with their ideal goal of reaching Kingdom Hearts and were just really mean things to do.. They are villains for a reason.
 
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destinykh

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Xaldin's tormenting of the Beast, Demyx stealing the Olympus Stone, Luxord cursing Jack Sparrow with the Aztec Gold, etc

They do connect to the goal of Kingdom Hearts. If Beast turns into a powerful Heartless and Nobody, the Org would be able to use the Nobody as its underling, while they can use Sora to defeat the Beast Heartless, whose powerful heart would be a massive contribution to Kingdom Hearts. Demyx needed the Olympus Stone to investigate the Underworld without being drained of his strength. Luxord most likely wanted to experiment with darkness of heart, and using the Gold to get people to submit to the greed within themselves would cause them to become Heartless, and Sora will destroy those Heartless, once more completing Kingdom Hearts.

Zexion and Lexeaus were reacting to Marluxia and Larxene's plot. Marluxia wanted Sora to take down Xemnas, the underground members needed Riku to stop Marluxia's plan, and forced him to submit to darkness because that's Riku at his strongest. Axel killing Vexen was a neccessary evil to infiltrate Marluxia's scheme.

If anything, the ones who are truly in it for power are Xemnas, Marluxia, Larxene and now from Days, Saix. The rest are just misguided beings who wanted hearts, while in the case of the 5 apperentices of Ansem the Wise, they also wanted to continue their experiments with darkness of heart.
 

Chaos_Riku

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Re: Is Org XIII really that BAD?

Saiz is the one that surprised me the most. In KH2 I got the impression he was Xemnas' lap dog, but after Days he gave me a new impression.

Especially when he was tlaking to Axel about not knowing Xemnas' true goal, and what other things xemnas may not be telling them.
 
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