• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Kingdom Hearts III Wish: Return of the Trinity (or Something Like It)



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rosebudx

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
176
Awards
1
Location
Southeastern Ohio
I've recently started playing KHFM for the first time, and the one feature that has really stuck out to me (aside from the redone soundtracks, which are awesome!) is the Trinity. I guess it's just because I haven't played a full run-through of the first game in awhile, but I had almost forgotten they were a thing.

They're a thing that I actually really miss, because they are the perfect physical manifestation of Sora, Donald, and Goofy's friendship. Each time they become a little closer as a trio, they get a new power: when they first come together, they can just jump while holding hands, like a children's game. As they overcome their first major rift in Deep Jungle, they begin to learn to sort work together by crashing into a wall one after the other until it breaks. A few worlds later, they learn to literally stand on each others' shoulders to form a makeshift ladder, but it is only when they learn to really work together and beat the Hercules Cup that they learn that they are their strongest when pushing together. By the time Goofy and Donald abandon Riku to return to Sora's side, their friendship has become so powerful that it can reveal secrets just by being shown near them. Finally, they learn to channel their friendship into a powerful attack. It is a beautiful meta representation of their development as a trio.

The non-numbered games, of course, haven't really featured Donald and Goofy (well, Chain of Memories, but that showed their friendship being torn apart at the seams so...), but Kingdom Hearts 2 did. Sora learned Trinity Limit after defeating Pete, but that wasn't a particularly moving SDG moment. And, although it does manifest differently when Sora is with his friends, he can still use the move while alone. I know, it could mean that his friends are always with him, etc. etc., but it loses some of the meaning behind the original Trinities. Throughout KH2, Sora did learn different limits with each of his party members and Summons in turn, and Donald and Goofy got two apiece plus Trinity, but I lost the feeling of the abilities being fostered by relationships that the first game had. With the exception of Donald and Goofy, who come by their Limits as Get Bonuses throughout the game, the Limits are just preequipped Abilities on every party member. They look cool, but the meaning behind them is gone: Sora's just automatically such good friends with the various party members that they automatically know how to work together to pull off these sick, involved moves.

I don't really want the Trinities back in their original form (it got tedious trying to track all of them down, honestly). However, I do want the evolution of friendship that the Trinities represented in the first game to return with KHIII. I want Limits, if they exist, to mean something instead of just being around for Rule of Cool.

Above that, though, I want to see more of the SDG friendship. KH2 didn't really see it change or develop all that much, much like Sora's friendship with Kairi. It was basically the Sora-Riku show, and while that was some great character/relationship development, I really missed seeing Sora, Donald, and Goofy grow closer together. I missed, and still miss, the Trinity, and I really don't want to see Donald and Goofy shoved aside by the Keybearers.

Sorry for the novella, but I have been thinking about this all day. What are your thoughts on the subject?
 
Last edited:

BufferAqua

Bronze Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
1,714
Awards
13
I loved the Trinities! It's good making SDG closer together, and it does give you nice rewards too. But what I really like about the trinities is hunting them down, as I like searching for things.

SDG's friendship should be seen more, yes, since they're my favorite trio. They were very attached to each other, and really understood each other, and had special connections that surprisingly SRK didn't have.
 

kuraudoVII

D'oh, I missed!
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
1,974
Awards
1
Location
Somewhere in Castle Figaro...
Hey, this was an interesting novella. :)

I tend to fall under the category of wanting to have trinities back. IMO, when I saw one that I couldn't quite use just yet, it would give me something to look forward to when I came back with that trinity in tow. It's kinda like how if you see a bomb-able wall in a Zelda game but are out of bombs/don't have access to them yet, it gives you a sense of anticipation of what is behind that wall until you return and can bring it down.

As far as the symbolism behind the different trinities, I felt that they were a nice touch and would love to see them expand on that in Kingdom Hearts III.
 

ok sunny

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
282
Awards
8
Location
New York
I'm with you on that. I liked the process of having to unlock certain trinities so you can gain access certain chests and areas. It also gave a lot to do post game.
Plus Sora's pretty big now. It seems Goofy will be the one to sit on top of him this time ehehe...
 

Rosebudx

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
176
Awards
1
Location
Southeastern Ohio
Plus Sora's pretty big now. It seems Goofy will be the one to sit on top of him this time ehehe...

I can just imagine them going to the order they're used to, only for Goofy to splat! onto the floor under Sora's newly tall/buff bod XD

Hey, this was an interesting novella. :)

I tend to fall under the category of wanting to have trinities back. IMO, when I saw one that I couldn't quite use just yet, it would give me something to look forward to when I came back with that trinity in tow. It's kinda like how if you see a bomb-able wall in a Zelda game but are out of bombs/don't have access to them yet, it gives you a sense of anticipation of what is behind that wall until you return and can bring it down.

As far as the symbolism behind the different trinities, I felt that they were a nice touch and would love to see them expand on that in Kingdom Hearts III.

Thanks!

I don't really remember how I approached the Trinities when I first played them, as I was pretty young. I do know that on more recent playthroughs, I have found some of them to be such a chore to discover. The Zelda comparison makes a lot of sense, though. Maybe I had that when I was a kid.
 
Last edited:

Rosebudx

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
176
Awards
1
Location
Southeastern Ohio
SDG's friendship should be seen more, yes, since they're my favorite trio. They were very attached to each other, and really understood each other, and had special connections that surprisingly SRK didn't have.

This is so true, and yet when people talk about the main trios of the games it's always SRK, TVA, and RAX. Perhaps it's just all of the character development within the trio that we saw in the first games, but I think they have a closer bond as a trio.
 

Precursor Mar

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
505
Location
On the Hydra's back
The friendship aspect is cute and all, but I want to see them return as collectibles like in KH1 along with puzzle pieces/stickers or whatever else. They need to put stuff in all those big worlds they're making.
 

Rosebudx

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
176
Awards
1
Location
Southeastern Ohio
*seeing all this KH1 love* *is happy* Bring me trinities!

KH1 is love. KH1 is life. ;)

The friendship aspect is cute and all, but I want to see them return as collectibles like in KH1 along with puzzle pieces/stickers or whatever else. They need to put stuff in all those big worlds they're making.

I agree that we do need more collectibles, for sure. I personally prefer the stickers and puzzle pieces over Trinities because there is more buildup to completion. However, the Trinity thing was really well-thought out, especially in comparison to some of the later collectibles ("Hey, there's a hard-to-reach place! Let's put a puzzle piece there that has exactly no correlation to the story!"). Gaining new abilities as the relationship blossoms is wonderfully symbolic.
 

kuraudoVII

D'oh, I missed!
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
1,974
Awards
1
Location
Somewhere in Castle Figaro...
Rosebudx said:
The non-numbered games, of course, haven't really featured Donald and Goofy (well, Chain of Memories, but that showed their friendship being torn apart at the seams so...), but Kingdom Hearts 2 did. Sora learned Trinity Limit after defeating Pete, but that wasn't a particularly moving SDG moment. And, although it does manifest differently when Sora is with his friends, he can still use the move while alone. I know, it could mean that his friends are always with him, etc. etc., but it loses some of the meaning behind the original Trinities. Throughout KH2, Sora did learn different limits with each of his party members and Summons in turn, and Donald and Goofy got two apiece plus Trinity, but I lost the feeling of the abilities being fostered by relationships that the first game had. With the exception of Donald and Goofy, who come by their Limits as Get Bonuses throughout the game, the Limits are just preequipped Abilities on every party member. They look cool, but the meaning behind them is gone: Sora's just automatically such good friends with the various party members that they automatically know how to work together to pull off these sick, involved moves.

Another interesting thing to note: in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, Sora's friendship with Donald and Goofy was strained until the very end due to the machinations of Namine operating under Marluxia and it is after all of that that Sora learns Trinity Limit on the thirteenth floor. In Kingdom Hearts II, Sora and co. are often in situations where they are forced to fight apart from each other such as the first visit to Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden, the Land of Dragons in that one shrine near the village and especially in the 1000 Heartless Battle halfway through the game.

While Sora and co. are often told that teamwork is important, II also seems to imply that each (or really just Sora) has to learn to believe in themselves when alone. This idea is backed by the mechanics of the Drive Forms. Thanks to the Drive Forms, you have access to additional power, but at the cost of something in return. Notice how when you are in Valor Form, not only do you no longer have access to Goofy, a defensive-oriented fighter, but that you are also bereft of proper defensive techniques as well? Likewise, when you are in Wisdom Form, not only do you not have access to Donald, a notably NOT levelheaded mage, but that you are also bereft of physical attacks of any kind? In each instance, you are left with a party member, but you are also severely handicapped despite the added abilities and properties that these two forms in particular provide. It is only when using Master Form and especially Final Form where your handicap of having neither party member is negated by the obscene amount of strength and magic at your disposal. Notice that at this point, you are incredibly powerful despite Donald and Goofy being nonexistent. On top of that, one can come under the realization that, thanks to the way certain mobility abilities are gained in this game, it is more advantageous to level each form up to their fullest just to have access to ALL high level mobility abilities at your disposal in your base form.

In light of this, we have this to consider: rather than relying so much on teamwork as in Kingdom Hearts I, Kingdom Hearts II seems to instill the idea that now that you know how to fight together, you must now also learn how to grow on your own so that you can become stronger still once you are reunited once more. This notion is cemented even FURTHER in Final Mix where you not only have access to Limit Form, but you are also encouraged to level up your abilities for different reasons altogether. For the former, Limit Form not only allows you to go into a new form without Donald and Goofy (though you can now also fight alongside them in this powered up form), but you also have SUPERIOR defensive abilities (the guard animation from Kingdom Hearts I is used instead of the one from Kingdom Hearts II), abilities that give you temporary invincibility frames ala Strike Raid once again and each successful use of a Limit can grant you health when it connects to your target which negates the issue of not having access to magic. For the latter, you are encouraged to level up your mobility abilities for two new reasons: puzzles and the Cavern of Remembrance. Certain puzzle pieces can only be acquired when Sora levels up a mobility ability. Likewise, in order to get all the way through the Cavern of Remembrance, you are not only REQUIRED to have all of your mobility abilities leveled up but you are also encouraged to use the forms as much as you want since the enemies here have far more power and health at their disposal.

Ultimately, with Kingdom Hearts III, I want to be able to go back a little more the mechanics of the trinities once again since they were incredibly fun, but I also want to see a little bit of what we learned in Kingdom Hearts II (specifically, Final Mix) as well all in the name of a more expansive world that not only rewards you for your curiosity but also comes with the symbolism that was part of both games, mostly the first game since this game is most likely to really hammer home the importance of working together.
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,673
KH1 is love. KH1 is life. ;)

200_s.gif
 

robvandam111

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
3,448
Awards
6
Location
Miami
Those trinities.... :) & the Dalmatians


[video=youtube;BZVOIxcSxY8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZVOIxcSxY8[/video]
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
5,386
Awards
19
You know, I never really thought about the trinities that way. Looking at the specific times that they learned Trinity abilities, I didn't even think about that while playing through KH1 and I've played that through maybe 20+ times. At first I thought this thread was about just bringing them back, but bringing them back with those emotional elements would be great too. Gameplay wise, they served as something fun to go back to worlds and explore some more and get stuff that you missed. Storyline wise, thanks to your brilliant explanation, it serves as friendship building. I always wondered why I thought in KH1 Sora, Donald, and Goofy had the best and clearest bond together and this serves a big part... even though my conscious mind didn't get it, I suppose my subconscious did!
 

Rosebudx

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
176
Awards
1
Location
Southeastern Ohio
In light of this, we have this to consider: rather than relying so much on teamwork as in Kingdom Hearts I, Kingdom Hearts II seems to instill the idea that now that you know how to fight together, you must now also learn how to grow on your own so that you can become stronger still once you are reunited once more.

I really liked your explanation of that, and to a certain point I agree with you. However, the storyline really didn't reflect what the gameplay was trying to get at; Donald and Goofy's friendship with Sora was extremely underrepresented, and I hated that. Like you, I hope we see some combination in III.
 

MasterZero

New member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
54
While I respect and am impressed with your Trinity interpretation/theory, I'll be the first to admit I hated them in KH1. They were tedious, and I hated how I had to switch out Aladdin, or Tarzan, to do it. As a child, fighting besides the heroes of Disney movies was one of the big draws for me. One of my pet peeves when watching KH let's plays is when people refuse to switch out Donald and Goofy. Really bothers me.

So while I like the idea of story influenced collectibles, I really hope they're not like the Trinities of KH1 (though I do recognize that they'd be easier now with the ability to switch out party members). I had an idea once about a unique kind of collectible for KH3. You find places you can interact with and do so. Then you check the Journal and presto! You have a picture of Sora, Donald, Goofy, plus whatever Disney character they're teaming up with, hanging out.

Aladdin, Sora, Donald, and Goofy at Aladdin and Jasmine's wedding.
Sora dueling Hercules.
Sora and the gang coming out of the Halloween Town well. Pumpkin King style.
Sora and the gang climbing Rapunzel's hair.
Sora, Donald, Goofy, Hiro, and Baymax on one of those...fish...fan things high in the air.

The Journal gets a Scrapbook section and funny/cute moments are granted.
 

Morgenstern

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
256
Awards
5
I think I know how Zero's ide may work out as well. throught out the series there was some thigns that needed magic to activate (The Generator at Disney Town, those eggs in Agrebah in II, and Merlin's door and another generator in Traverse Town) I think that using Mgaic to reach certain crowns (like the pieces/stickers) could unlock some scrapbook entries, while others are unlocked by doing a certain thing with certain aprty members in certain places, be it mini-games or working win tandem with one another in battle
 

kuraudoVII

D'oh, I missed!
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
1,974
Awards
1
Location
Somewhere in Castle Figaro...
I really liked your explanation of that, and to a certain point I agree with you. However, the storyline really didn't reflect what the gameplay was trying to get at; Donald and Goofy's friendship with Sora was extremely underrepresented, and I hated that. Like you, I hope we see some combination in III.

Unfortunately, a lot of things were underrepresented in Kingdom Hearts II due to having (in hindsight) an incredibly sloppy narrative. Your point is a valid one since there were very few moments where Sora and Donald and Goofy voluntarily went on their own only to be reunited and such. As you pointed out, the friendship between the three wasn't even really fleshed out very well; the first game and the novelization of said game in particular were much better at showing how their initial team up borne out of necessity was later fleshed out into a genuine friendship.

And admittedly, I may have overanalyzed the mechanics themselves a tad too much and found more meaning behind them than what was actually there.
 

Anagram

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
5,673
While I respect and am impressed with your Trinity interpretation/theory, I'll be the first to admit I hated them in KH1. They were tedious, and I hated how I had to switch out Aladdin, or Tarzan, to do it. As a child, fighting besides the heroes of Disney movies was one of the big draws for me. One of my pet peeves when watching KH let's plays is when people refuse to switch out Donald and Goofy. Really bothers me.

So while I like the idea of story influenced collectibles, I really hope they're not like the Trinities of KH1 (though I do recognize that they'd be easier now with the ability to switch out party members). I had an idea once about a unique kind of collectible for KH3. You find places you can interact with and do so. Then you check the Journal and presto! You have a picture of Sora, Donald, Goofy, plus whatever Disney character they're teaming up with, hanging out.

Aladdin, Sora, Donald, and Goofy at Aladdin and Jasmine's wedding.
Sora dueling Hercules.
Sora and the gang coming out of the Halloween Town well. Pumpkin King style.
Sora and the gang climbing Rapunzel's hair.
Sora, Donald, Goofy, Hiro, and Baymax on one of those...fish...fan things high in the air.

The Journal gets a Scrapbook section and funny/cute moments are granted.

I just went back after beating the world to get the trinities. I enjoyed my movie party member while doing the story. lmao
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top