Spoilers ► LEAKS discussion - ENTER AT OWN RISK

[NemesisSP]

After reading all the leaks, I’ve watched the cutscenes on YouTube and must say I’m impressed. Kairi wasn’t really that bad..

no she was badass and I really liked how aggressive she was against Xehanort. I’m satisfied with the ending. And maybe we can play some segments of her training with Aqua. But I don’t like the fact that DDD2 may be a Riku only game. I’d really like if it was still the Kairi and Riku game and maybe Kairi and Aqua join Riku in Quadratum.. I really liked how they implemented Yozora’s theme in the end.

I would like it if the next game had Riku and Kairi as the protagonists as well. At the same time, if the game is just Riku, I'm not opposed to that, since Riku's never actually carried a game solo before. Sure, he was pretty much the true protagonist of Dream Drop Distance, but he still shared most of it with Sora. It'd be interesting to see how he could fare as the sole protagonist of a game. For the most part, I think only Sora and Roxas have really had stories where they were the sole protagonist 358/2 Days Mission Mode is not canon, Roxas is the only playable character in Story Mode and its still his game with Axel and Xion playing off of his struggles and journey. Of course, there's nothing wrong with sharing the spotlight and it can work well. It just seems that Riku only ever tends to share a game with someone else than have his own.

I still think Kairi will get her own full game on the horizon, but of course we'll have to see.

Kairi: "I want to go with you. But I can't. I need to finish training."

GURL. YOU NEVER HEARD OF LEARNING ON THE JOB!?

Nomura, you could have kept Kairi's character development going... but we're going to put her on the bench again.

Yes, because apparently of the multiple projects that are confirmed to be in the works, none of those could possibly be Kairi centric or have her be in it. You're acting like Kairi is most definitely gonna be benched when we know 1) nothing about what's coming next 2) that this game ends with the hint of Kairi begin trained by Aqua.

Again, considering multiple projects are in the works, not just the Sora and Riku in Quadratum game, then it's really too damn early to pretend we know for sure that Kairi is going to be "benched." Also, the game doesn't throw out her development, what are you talking about? She's still probably gonna keep it going. You're just being overly pessimistic.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

• Guys just be patient. Kairi technically fought and beat MX.

Spoiler Show

Technically, she didn't, she fought against an imaginary version of him... and still had to rely on Sora to be saved.

 

[Katsagu]

Spoiler Show

Technically, she didn't, she fought against an imaginary version of him... and still had to rely on Sora to be saved.

Maybe she imagined him stronger than he really is?

 

[KeyChan93]

I would like it if the next game had Riku and Kairi as the protagonists as well. At the same time, if the game is just Riku, I'm not opposed to that, since Riku's never actually carried a game solo before. Sure, he was pretty much the true protagonist of Dream Drop Distance, but he still shared most of it with Sora. It'd be interesting to see how he could fare as the sole protagonist of a game. For the most part, I think only Sora and Roxas have really had stories where they were the sole protagonist 358/2 Days Mission Mode is not canon, Roxas is the only playable character in Story Mode and its still his game with Axel and Xion playing off of his struggles and journey. Of course, there's nothing wrong with sharing the spotlight and it can work well. It just seems that Riku only ever tends to share a game with someone else than have his own.

I still think Kairi will get her own full game on the horizon, but of course we'll have to see.



Yes, because apparently of the multiple projects that are confirmed to be in the works, none of those could possibly be Kairi centric or have her be in it. You're acting like Kairi is most definitely gonna be benched when we know 1) nothing about what's coming next 2) that this game ends with the hint of Kairi begin trained by Aqua.

Again, considering multiple projects are in the works, not just the Sora and Riku in Quadratum game, then it's really too damn early to pretend we know for sure that Kairi is going to be "benched." Also, the game doesn't throw out her development, what are you talking about? She's still probably gonna keep it going. You're just being overly pessimistic.

I was joking mainly! With all of these plot threads, I just don't know where Kairi could fit in the larger picture if Riku is going at this quest alone! But I hope we'll see more growth in her story! Definitely been rooting for her since KH1!

 

[NemesisSP]

Kairi deciding to stick around and train is because she doesn't want to repeat the mistake of rushing into the Keyblade War after finishing her initial training, thus being actually woefully unprepared to actually be in that situation. Which then ended up with her then getting shattered by Xehanort, which then resulted in Sora breaking reality a second time to save her and is why he's over in Quadatrum to begin with.

I fail to see how Kairi, who has little actual experience and having just woken up from a year long coma could actually help Riku out without feeling like she's just be weighing him down. We can already see that, despite her aggression towards "Xehanort" and enthusiasm, she's holding some clear guilt over this whole thing. It sounds like maybe her going back to training actually could help her regain that confidence she had before the Keyblade War. And there's also no guarantee that Riku could make it back since we don't know the mechanics of Quadratum, meaning he's going in there blind. And he's officially a Keyblade Master. While Kairi isn't yet. Plus, who would tell Mickey and everyone if Kairi doesn't? Sure, maybe the Fairy Godmother, but wouldn't they want to hear it from Kairi and also be assured she's alright after being out of it?

Personally, yes I get it, it's hard to see where Kairi is going to fit into this, but I think she will indeed have a much larger role within the story. Especially with the idea that she's gonna be training with Aqua this time. Will we see it or will we follow Riku mostly in the next game, but I don't think we should just assume Kairi is just gonna disappear again. She's on a journey of her own now and I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic that we're gonna see it unfold. After all, like I said, there's multiple projects confirmed to be in the works. Who knows but Square Enix what is gonna happen.

Side note, I hope someone rips the version of Nachtflugel that plays during the scene with the Nameless Star soon, because that is a very pretty variant of it.

 

[KeyToDestiny]

I would like it if the next game had Riku and Kairi as the protagonists as well. At the same time, if the game is just Riku, I'm not opposed to that, since Riku's never actually carried a game solo before. Sure, he was pretty much the true protagonist of Dream Drop Distance, but he still shared most of it with Sora. It'd be interesting to see how he could fare as the sole protagonist of a game. For the most part, I think only Sora and Roxas have really had stories where they were the sole protagonist 358/2 Days Mission Mode is not canon, Roxas is the only playable character in Story Mode and its still his game with Axel and Xion playing off of his struggles and journey. Of course, there's nothing wrong with sharing the spotlight and it can work well. It just seems that Riku only ever tends to share a game with someone else than have his own.

I still think Kairi will get her own full game on the horizon, but of course we'll have to see.



Yes, because apparently of the multiple projects that are confirmed to be in the works, none of those could possibly be Kairi centric or have her be in it. You're acting like Kairi is most definitely gonna be benched when we know 1) nothing about what's coming next 2) that this game ends with the hint of Kairi begin trained by Aqua.

Again, considering multiple projects are in the works, not just the Sora and Riku in Quadratum game, then it's really too damn early to pretend we know for sure that Kairi is going to be "benched." Also, the game doesn't throw out her development, what are you talking about? She's still probably gonna keep it going. You're just being overly pessimistic.

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen people say Kairi's getting a game or goalposts getting moved, I'd be richer than Scrooge by now.

 

[NemesisSP]

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen people say Kairi's getting a game or goalposts getting moved, I'd be richer than Scrooge by now.

And I'd say if I had a dollar for every time I saw this kind of response, I'd be richer than both Scrooge and you. I'm very tired of the constant negativity concerning Kairi, not be cause it's unfounded (because there are), but because people like you just want to be negative for the sake of it.

I'm just gonna say, again, if that's how you want to be, go right ahead. But replying to me and making a snide comment isn't going to change my mind and it's clear no point I could make will change yours.

 

[Katsagu]

I was watching a stream...and excuse me if I'm wrong...

But there are only 21 co-op musics???

 

[Perkilator]

When it’s possible to interview again, I wanna if someone here can interview Nomura and ask him about how Kairi is handled and that it contradicts what was shown in the marketing.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

Long Plot Thoughts

Spoiler Show

I was trying to think of what a fictional world is, how that differs from say Pooh or Coded or the dream worlds. My thought is thus, maybe a fictional world is world that could have existed but doesn’t. To put another way it be a “what-if” like “what if Sora never got the keyblade” or “what if they keyblade war never happened”.

From the perspective of the people world these are theoretical imaginations, they aren’t what happened, and thus would amount to little more than fan fiction if they were written down. BUT what if KH universe runs on the idea that every theoretical DID happen and there is a reality fit each. Alternate timelines and histories, from the perspective of the inhabitants these worlds are fictional and only exist in our heads. But from the perspective of someone standing outside they can see all the world, all the ways reality can twist and turn, everything exists together simultaneously leaving no separation between actual and theoretical. They are both in states of being fictional and non-fictional depending on what world you are in. So in our KH universe Verum Rex is just a video game nothing more but in alternate reality it’s a real place and real world and it’s events really happened. Likewise maybe the reverse is true, maybe in Verum Rex Kingdom Hearts is just a fictional video game series.

So what does this mean for Sora? I am going to propose that when Sora was erased by the universe he was literally turned into a theoretical/fictional idea that only exists in the minds of his friends. As such Sora appeared in a world that was also theoretical/fictional, the world of Verum Rex.

Why did this happen? I believe it’s working off the idea that when Sora changed time he literally turned his reality into fiction to make theoretical reality of his friends living true. Essentially the world ended just as it was foretold but Sora using the power waking rewrote reality, he took the theory that they could win and made it real. Which means Sora who is only one who existed outside of this reality and essentially jumped ships to the new reality he made, is also now theoretical.

That's why YX said Sora was already doomed. Because in the reality they standing in the heroes never died, but Sora comes from a reality in which they did. He comes from a what-if that doesn’t progress past the point we saw. So from the perspective of the people in this world Sora comes from a what-if, and thus as I said is now an existing theoretical concept made flesh. When Sora saved Kairi he rewrote reality again now he was doubly theoretical/fictional so his time of existence in this world was drastically shortened.

In other words I propose that that KH uses the time travel concept that you CAN change time, it’s difficult to do so but it can be done. Doing so creates a paradox like if you go back to prevent something then the thing you did never happens so you wouldn’t have a reason to go back and stop it... This works off the idea that time will adjust and maintain this reality even though it is an unstable loop. So the change sticks but YOU who come from the reality in which the thing you wanted to prevent did happen are erased because the reality you came from doesn’t exist in the perspective of the current reality you are now standing in.

So Darkness prevails and light expires does happen in reality A. But in reality B light prevails and in this reality the idea that darkness wins is just theoretical/fictional concept written in the book of prophecies that never came to pass. In reality B the book of prophecies is just fiction, what-if story where Xehanort won. HOWEVER if you step outside this reality you will be able to see both exist together, and likely many other alternative outcomes do to.

So this leads me to the MoM. Assuming I am on the correct path I believe this is why the MoM doesn’t care about this world or any world for that matter. Because he secretly a person who can see that every world is just a theoretical to another world, everything is in a state of non-existence and existence. The entire cosmos is one big Schroeder’s Cat!

What the MoM cares about is the longer game, not all these theoretical worlds existing together, but what the end result will be, the one true world and ending. Something that will never come as long as everything exists in a state of being and non-being. He has to destroy everything, time and space itself, to create a true world...one that reflects his desired outcome. Because it doesn’t matter if darkness exists in this world or defeated in this world. It will still continue to exist in other worlds, other theoretical worlds where darkness prevailed or maybe light never even existed to begin with. The only way to truly wipe out darkness would be connect every world in one singular future in which darkness doesn’t exist.

This ties to that damn black box, it’s a literal Schroeder’s Cat. The contents of the box changes based on when it’s opened, as long as it’s shut its contents stay in constant flux, the reality the box is in will never be finalized until the box is opened. Until then the box keeps the worlds in shards of theoretical existence. Many things could achieve this but this box is something the MoM can control. He can decide when he wants to finalize this reality at least somewhat by when chooses to open the box. That’s why Xigbar talks and questions the idea that the box is actually black or what the world actually is. In this theoretical reality they stand in the box is black but if you looked from the outside maybe you see a reality where the box is blue or yellow or purple. From an outsider the box in only ever theoretically something, it’s all kinds of colors, but inside this theoretical reality it’s black.

“I’ve been having these strange thoughts lately....is any of this for real or not?”

That’s the key, none of this real and yet at the same time it IS real. It’s just perspective, to people of this world, this reality, it’s real. But in another reality like ours for example it’s fiction, just code and writing imagined from the head of a Japanese dude. Sora is real to himself but fake to us and perhaps if we could get an outside perspective we would see a world in which Sora IS real.

Maybe this is what Xehanort was after. The ancient keybladers made it to a fictional world and that is what Mickey is looking into? Perhaps that’s what happened with the Dandelions. The MoM sent them to another world/reality where the keyblade war never happened. Then they managed to return to this world where it did happen or at least some did. What Xehanort may have wanted was the secret to that, the secret to jumping to a fictional world, to escape these theoretical realities he exists in, maybe he never stopped being the kid who felt trapped it’s just his prisons got larger and larger. At the same time he probably knew he couldn’t truly escape this world so if he was stuck here the least could do is shape this world to his views and liking. If you’re going to be trapped in a prison you can at least make it a prison you want to live in.

Shorter version free of ramble.

Spoiler Show

I theorize based on the concept of a "fictional world" the world exists as a state of theoretical worlds co-existing together. A world, in sense of all of a reality, is real when inside it and all other theoretical possibilities are just theory/fiction. However when you step outside and see the greater world for what it is you see all possibilities are real/did happen and co-exist with all other possibilities. So in example...

Sora lives in a reality in which darkness prevailed and light expired. Then he rewrote reality to make a new one in which light prevails and Xehanort's win is just a fictional what-if. In the first reality the BoP tells the truth with absolute accuracy but in the second reality the BoP is just fiction based on what could happen but didn't. This means in the second reality Sora himself was a fictional concept, a version of him that didn't come to be, and so he couldn't exist in this world very long. When he made a third reality in which he saves Kairi drastically cut down the time he had remaining in this world because now he was like a double fictional Sora. Where Sora ended up being sent was to another fictional world, a place that wasn't real in Sora's worlds but in another reality is real, the world of Yozora and Verum Rex.

So to answer the question on if "any of this is for real or not" the answer is yes, no, and both. The world you are in is real to you but to another in a different world it's fake, and to the person standing outside both they are both very real or total fictional.

That's why the MoM is so cold. He knows the world is just a bunch of shards of theoretical existences and so it doesn't matter what happens in one because the alternate happens in another. It doesn't matter if they destroy or are destroyed by darkness in this world because there will be other worlds with other outcomes. If you want to truly get rid of darkness there is only one way to do so. Go beyond time and space, destroy all the theoretical shards or connect them all into a singular world with one reality, one sky, one destiny, one heart where darkness doesn't exist.

Xehanort may have realized this to, that they exist inside only a shard of theoretical existence and he sought to escape this theoretical world to reach the one true end, but also being Xehanort knew he may never actually manage that and made a back-up plan of making this world he was stuck in to be the kind of world he wants to live in. In other words Xehanort never stopped being the boy that felt imprisoned, his prisons just grew in size, and he was always seeking a way out while making his prisons nice for him incase he doesn't escape.

Spoiler Show

Huh. So it would be like Tales of Xillia 2 where there are many alternate words, changed drastically by simple things , but evne then, there is one "canon" world?

//cries in 100 theories and fanfics becoming non-canon in 20 minutes//

Oooooorrrr maybe not.

Spoiler Show

the idea of multiverse like this make fanfic alternate worlds "canon" to coexist somewhere else alongside the "main" /"real world"...somehow.

 

[Katsagu]

When it’s possible to interview again, I wanna if someone here can interview Nomura and ask him about how Kairi is handled and that it contradicts what was shown in the marketing.

What exactly was shown in the marketing?

 

[Cumguardian69]

Nothing in tbe marketing contradicts what the final product of Kairi was. Y'all really went "omg there's a hand cursor on Kairi's name and a render so she'd gonna be PlAyAbLE" when no one from SE EVER said that.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Nothing in tbe marketing contradicts what the final product of Kairi was. Y'all really went "omg there's a hand cursor on Kairi's name and a render so she'd gonna be PlAyAbLE" when no one from SE EVER said that.

It would have been nice to get the Destiny Trio in their Kingdom Hearts III attire as an unlockable team after beating the game.

 

[kirabook]

From what little marketing I've seen (cause I didn't go into this caring about the story and now I see rightly so), they heavily teased Kairi at least getting some kind of mini-boss minuscule story. It's kind of a bait and switch to have the trailer show Kairi attacking the hooded figure. To have a cutscene of her doing that. But then have her transform into someone else last minute to do the actual fight.

I just wish they hadn't included any of this "story" at all. Couldn't we just have a rhythm game for rhythm game sake? I say that, knowing no game in KH is a side game but oh I wish they truly were.

 

[Darkspawn]

Nothing in tbe marketing contradicts what the final product of Kairi was. Y'all really went "omg there's a hand cursor on Kairi's name and a render so she'd gonna be PlAyAbLE" when no one from SE EVER said that.

As the person who made that observation here, I’m not sure why you’re mocking it when it ended up being true in some capacity? It was something worth pointing out, I think.

That said, you’re right that SE didn’t contradict themselves with the marketing. But they definitely teased an idea that was present in the game, but not in the way many of us would have liked. I mean, they even advertised that model using her Keyblade, but she doesn’t use it with that model in the game itself.

 

[Katsagu]

Okay I have to say it.

The fact there even is a final boss is surprising. Let's not act like it existing was something expected or a given. People only started thinking somehting of the sort when we saw the demake render of KH3 kairi. And well we were right, she is playable, as much as KH3 sora is here. The fact the final boss did not pan out how many people wanted doesn't make the game or what the devs did here any less valuable in itself.

But nothing about the marketing was misleading, trailers did not focus on the story part at all, hell the final trailer is 3 minutes and only the last 30 secs show a little of the story, responses to interviews said the story would be minimal and it is.

Just because Kairi is on the cover does not mean this is "her" game, whatever that means. This is and has always been a rhythm game first and foremost that goes through the whole story of the KH saga, with what was marketed as a little something at the end (yes the KH twitter actually sent out a tweet saying this exact same thing), after all this is: "The first KH rhythm action game".

I get being dissapointed with the way things pan out when it relates to Kairi's time to shine, but screaming "FALSE ADVERTISING" is not it. At the end of the day, the rhythm game behind all of this is still solid as hell.

 

[2 quid is good]

When are we gonna get the whole "blame the fans and their expectations!" out of the fandom, it really ruins discourse.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and you certainly can't divorce MoM's Kairi-centric marketing from Remind's "redeeming Kairi" scenes.

Expectations don't come up outta nowhere and it's very fair to say that many people weren't expecting anything at all from the story and despite that, what we ended up getting seems to be worse than nothing for plenty here. Stop putting the onus of the blame on fans when there are DEFINITELY people at Square who are well aware of what they're doing, they know how to hype the fanbase up, they know what marketing techniques are most successful on fans vs casuals.

I refuse to see anyone blame fans for their expectations unless they're wildly off base and the person in question is attacking Square for not including their baseless wants but here's the thing a lot of people might not want to hear:

Almost nothing fans have been talking about on KHInsider, KH13, KH-Vids, KH ultimania, tumblr, reddit and twitter for over 15 years has been baseless.

 

[kirabook]

Actually, I didn't think anything of the remake render. I thought it was cool and maybe she'd be a team member or something. But even the teams don't matter that much to me.

I got the impression that there would be a final boss solely from that teaser trailer of Kairi attacking the hooded figure, nothing else.

I didn't expect a full story throughout the game because they told us not to. I didn't expect the story was going to move an inch past remind because they told us not to. I barely know anything about the game play of the rhythm game itself other than the demo (never played a rhythm game before, I suck a lot yaknow). To me, this was going to be a Coded situation. 1 plot relevant cutscene at the very end plus a boss fight. That's it.

Based on that trailer of Kairi confronting the hooded figure, yes. I expected at the very end of the game, Kairi would defeat some kind of boss. Be it a real hooded figure or something conjured up from the rhythm game somehow.

"You were expecting this crazy thing!!!" I really wasn't, a lot of people weren't. So don't put words in peoples mouth.

As for other arguments I've seen
"Did you really think Kairi could defeat Xehanort??"

Apparently it's not even the real Xehanort though? It's a Xehanort conjured up from her memories (or someone pretending to be). So, she can totally conjure up a memory to transform into Sora to defeat fake Xehanort, but she can't conjure up any power of her own to defeat him herself? The writing team could've just as easily had Kairi summon her own inner strength to defeat Xehanort, or pull a BbS Aqua vs Venitas where Aqua summoned the power for friendship to give herself one last boost of strength.

We really do just wrap ourselves in dumb logic just to make things make sense. I mean, it is Kingdom Hearts and it's been like this for a while, but it feels like it's getting a little worse every day.

Kairi transforming into Sora just to fight Xehanort is pretty much my sole issue with what happened (other than Riku's hesitance making Kairi second guess herself)

 

[Cumguardian69]

^kirabook

I mostly agree with what you said except the last bit. Riku cut her off before she could finish speaking. She was always going to say that she was inexperienced and unable to follow - unlike Sora, she knows her limits and doesn't believe in "supernatural" abilities to make unreality a reality. She'll do what she can but she doesn't have literal plot hax to rewrite time.

^Zip

No, she isn't even "playable" (Memory Dive seriously?) And she gets mistreated through and through. To be honest we are lucky to even get the old school Kairi and KH3 Sora models, but the point is that the overly positive fans who are wanting to call "muh false advertising" actually failed themselves and overhyped what MoM was going to be.

 

[May-Jor]

Why does Kairi need to stay back an train? Why is training suddenly a concern now? Isn't it tradition in video games to have a character with a weak and minuscule arsenal so they can power up throughout the game, to the point where they go out of their way to de-power a protagonist who should be a lot stronger in a sequel? She's weak, yeah, but she's not a noncombatant like Namine, so she's already at a good starting point.

Also, I'm getting a bit tired of the constant "maybe next time" or "just you wait, she'll be important, they're building it up!". I've had this song and dance before, it was never worth it in the end. So I don't blame people who aren't so positive about Kairi's position right now.