Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (completed) Spoiler Warning!!

[AxelsVirtue]

Before I explain my theory, I must make it clear that this entire theory is based on the assumption of 3 basic facts.

1. Emotions and compassion, including things such as friendship are products of the heart.
2. While the expression of emotions can be faked, the emotions themselves cannot.
3. When a Keyblade chooses its master, it becomes connected to its master's heart, not their body. Therefore it is impossible for one without a heart to wield a Keyblade.

Based on these assumptions Roxas, Axel, Xion, Namine and even the Riku replica must all possess hearts. My theory is that when an Organization level Nobody is formed from a somebody whose heart was not only strong, but also predominantly filled with light, the body attracts a heart that was stuck in limbo, so long as the heart is very similar to the heart the body had just lost. Furthermore, such an unnatural means of acquiring a heart seals the chain of memories of that heart, leaving only the memories of the body.​

Roxas
​

If I am right then Ventus' heart will be left in limbo after Birth by Sleep, only to later be absorbed into Sora's nobody, creating Roxas. And Namine's tampering caused Sora's Memories to also be absent from Roxas at first. Which means that the Keyblade Roxas Wields is the Keyblade that chose Ventus, not Sora.

Axel​

Axel would be the combination of Lea's Nobody and an unknown person's heart.​

Xion​

This one is complex, because the heart Xion possesses would be combined with a doll that was created as a replica of Roxas. During one of the later day in 358/2 days, Saix sends Axel back to Castle Oblivion to find some room (I forget the name), that Xenmas is aparently keeping a secret from him. I believe this may be the room that holds Aqua's armor that was shown in KH2 final mix. Which would mean that Aqua's heart was artificially absorbed into the replica. I believe a fake keyble was also made for Xion, and that at certain points in the game she was using either the fake keyblade or Aqua's keyblade. This would also eplain why Xion used 2 keyblades during the 3 part boss battle against her. In terms of her memories, the heart's memories are sealed and the body has no memories, leaving Xion with nothing ultill she began absorbing Sora's memories through Roxas.​

Namine​

On closer inspection, Ansem the Wise's theory involving how Namine came into being does seem to be the most logical, with the exception of only a few small details. After all, when Sora's body would have begun its tranformation into a Nobody it effectively lost 2 hearts and so split into a Nobody for each. However, the halve that was meant to be Kairi's Nobody still must have attracted a heart that was in limbo, because Namine clearly has emotions. Also, Namine does seem to have Kairi's memories.​

the Riku replica​

​

As shown with Sora, even when his memories where fake, he would not have felt anything toward Namine without a heart. This also aplies to the Riku replica. Furthermore, the strong desire to be his own person, rather than a copy of someone else, is also an emotion. Since it is unlikely that a heart had been placed into the Riku replica, it is likely that its heart came directly from Kingdom Hearts, efectively the same as with a newborn. The artifitial memories no doubt acted as a forced maturity.

​

Final note: When Xion was destroyed, Aqua's heart conjoined with Ven's inside Roxas, wich in turn later entered Sora. Wich means that Sora now has both Ven's and Aqua's hearts inside him. Furthermore, the second Keyblade Roxas used was Aqua's, and the second Keyblade that Sora uses in his double keyblade forms is Ven's. Also, the Wisdom form Keyblade may be Aqua's because it is specialized to magic.​

Please tell me what you think of my copleted theory​

 

[TerravsVentus]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

Basically what you're saying is that when you turn into a nobody you lose your own heart and take someone else's heart that is similar to your original from the darkness

 

[AxelsVirtue]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

Basically what you're saying is that when you turn into a nobody you lose your own heart and take someone else's heart that is similar to your original from the darkness

Only when the original heart was strong enough to cause an Organization level Nobody and was predominantly filled with light before becoming a Heartless. The other members of Organization 13 are still true Nobodys.

 

[Sign]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

I believe this may be the room that holds Aqua's armor that was shown in KH2 final mix.

But Aqua's armor and Keyblade are in the Chamber of Repose beneath the castle at Radiant Garden. The one in CO is the Chamber of Waking, which Xigbar believes is where the "other friend" is. This led to assumptions that Ven's armor and Keyblade are in CO.

Which means that the Keyblade Roxas Wields is the Keyblade that chose Ventus, not Sora.

The problem with this is what MX says in the TGS 2009 trailer: "The Keyblade’s power is governed by the heart of it’s previous master’s until the end." This explains the field of Keyblades in the trailer, why they were all left there instead of becoming another wielder's. Each Keyblade wielder has their own Keyblade, which will not be "inherited" by future wielders.

 

[AxelsVirtue]

But Aqua's armor and Keyblade are in the Chamber of Repose beneath the castle at Radiant Garden. The one in CO is the Chamber of Waking, which Xigbar believes is where the "other friend" is. This led to assumptions that Ven's armor and Keyblade are in CO.

The reason I said that I think it is the same room is because when I saw the Cutsene from kh2 Final Mix there was no way to tell wich world it was on. My theory that Aqua's heart was taken and forcefully absorbed into the doll that became Xion still stands. It just means that that her Heart was removed while Xeanort and the others were still based in Hollow Bastion. The Chamber of Repose was likely where the heart has been held all this time.

The problem with this is what MX says in the TGS 2009 trailer: "The Keyblade’s power is governed by the heart of it’s previous master’s until the end." This explains the field of Keyblades in the trailer, why they were all left there instead of becoming another wielder's. Each Keyblade wielder has their own Keyblade, which will not be "inherited" by future wielders.

Um, If you actually read my theory before commenting than you'd have noticed that I said that the Keyblade was tied to and Ven's ( the Keyblade's former and current owner) heart inside Roxas. In other word's the "problem" you speak of does not exist.

 

[αsiя]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

good theory
but don't double post

 

[Sign]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

Okay, I see what you're getting at. Thanks for clearing it up.

Now, what I want to know is how you couldn't just say I overlooked something without an insult, because I take random offense at that XP

And then I got over it. No biggie.

 

[AxelsVirtue]

Now, what I want to know is how you couldn't just say I overlooked something without an insult, because I take random offense at that XP

Sorry about that, I was just still agitated because the last time I tried to post my theory, I got almost nothing but comments that clearly suggested that no one actually read the theory.

good theory
but don't double post

Actually I'd like to delete the other post, but don't know how.

 

[Wehrmacht]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

You can't delete posts, but mods can. If you double post by accident just PM a mod.

 

[7thspade]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

Pretty good theory. We'll see if you're right.

 

[Seeshinamaru13]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

You certainly have an interesting and compelling theory. I also appreciate your 'out of the box' thinking. I'm not sure what to make of it... hmm I think you may have something here but on the other hand parts of it sound a little too farfetched. Although in comparison to certain other theories I have seen recently... this is like a breath of fresh air.

 

[TerravsVentus]

Re: Nobodys possessing Hearts theory (copleted) Spoiler Warning!!

Pretty good theory. We'll see if you're right.

same

Judgment day is in January

 

[Nayru's Love]

Before I explain my theory, I must make it clear that this entire theory is based on the assumption of 3 basic facts.

1. Emotions and compassion, including things such as friendship are products of the heart.
2. While the expression of emotions can be faked, the emotions themselves cannot.
3. When a Keyblade chooses its master, it becomes connected to its master's heart, not their body. Therefore it is impossible for one without a heart to wield a Keyblade.

kk.

Based on these assumptions Roxas, Axel, Xion, Namine and even the Riku replica must all possess hearts.​

Xion and Repliku's keyblade/soul eater were fake, Roxas is debatable, Namine is composed of nothing, and Axel may be Roxas-related.

My theory is that when an Organization level Nobody is formed from a somebody whose heart was not only strong, but also predominantly filled with light, the body attracts a heart that was stuck in limbo, so long as the heart is very similar to the heart the body had just lost. Furthermore, such an unnatural means of acquiring a heart seals the chain of memories of that heart, leaving only the memories of the body.

Seems too chance-involved for KH, and not much suggesting that bodies can attract other hearts like that.

Roxas
​

If I am right then Ventus' heart will be left in limbo after Birth by Sleep, only to later be absorbed into Sora's nobody, creating Roxas. And Namine's tampering caused Sora's Memories to also be absent from Roxas at first. Which means that the Keyblade Roxas Wields is the Keyblade that chose Ventus, not Sora.

Sora keeping his memories was a result of him being a heartless for a short time, IIRC.

During one of the later day in 358/2 days, Saix sends Axel back to Castle Oblivion to find some room (I forget the name), that Xenmas is aparently keeping a secret from him. I believe this may be the room that holds Aqua's armor that was shown in KH2 final mix.

The room with Aqua's armor is the Chamber or Repose, which is located in Hollow Bastion; the Chamber of Awakening is located in Castle Oblivion...so no Aqua involvement.

Namine​

On closer inspection, Ansem the Wise's theory involving how Namine came into being does seem to be the most logical, with the exception of only a few small details. After all, when Sora's body would have begun its tranformation into a Nobody it effectively lost 2 hearts and so split into a Nobody for each. However, the halve that was meant to be Kairi's Nobody still must have attracted a heart that was in limbo, because Namine clearly has emotions. Also, Namine does seem to have Kairi's memories.​

Bodies/Souls can't split (or at least nothing has been shown to support this), and Namine is confirmed to be composed of nothing...not to mention, she probably would've appeared in Twilight Town with Roxas if so.

the Riku replica​

​

As shown with Sora, even when his memories where fake, he would not have felt anything toward Namine without a heart. This also aplies to the Riku replica. Furthermore, the strong desire to be his own person, rather than a copy of someone else, is also an emotion. Since it is unlikely that a heart had been placed into the Riku replica, it is likely that its heart came directly from Kingdom Hearts, efectively the same as with a newborn. The artifitial memories no doubt acted as a forced maturity.

​

Strong desires=/=Proof of heart

Nobodies are prime examples, and Repliku probably had memories of emotions as well.

 

[AxelsVirtue]

kk.

Okay, instead of filling up a whole page with quotes I'll just point out the things that stand out.

1. The part about the room in Castle Oblivion has already been commented on by someone else, and in my response to thier comment I gave another explaination that still supports my theory. This can be found among the first few comments.
2. About Xion's fake Keyblade, she wields 2 Keyblades at the end of the game, and I expained that one is fake and the other is real. If one of them where not real, then she could not have purified the Heartless.
3. As for the part about the body spliting, that has not been confirmed either way, and since the Nobodys form in the Dark Realm just before apearing in Twilight Town, (or in Castle Oblivion like Namine) the split would have heppened before that. In fact the split may have been what caused Namine to apear in a different world than Roxas. Besides, my theory makes more sense than Namine simply appearing out of nothingness.
4. This isn't as important as the others, but Ansem is not all knowing. His theorys, including the fact that a Nobody is made up of a soul and a body instead of just a body is still just a theory.
5. As for the whole argument that my theory is a bit farfetched, that's why it's called a theory. And like I said, my whole theory depends on the 3 basic rules being true. I never claimed that my theory is undisputable fact.

Thank you though. The fact that you where able to debate my theory shows that you actually read it. I apreciate that.

 

[Nayru's Love]

1. Xigbar said the room was an addition to the lab, which was in HB.
2. Just started the game, though judging by some Xion boss pics, those don't look like real keyblades...Not to mention, they don't have keychains.
And I'll have to see a quote about the "purifying heartless" thing.
3. We're talking about Namine, the person who can hack into memories other than Sora's. Besides, if she were half of his body+soul, that'd mean that Kairi has those pieces, and that Sora's "incomplete."
Also, where'd you get that Nobodies form in darkness?
4. Actually I was referring to a Nomura quote, but IIRC that was for something else related.

Thank you though. The fact that you where able to debate my theory shows that you actually read it. I apreciate that.

;-)

 

[Igshar]

Couple things...

Based on these assumptions Roxas, Axel, Xion, Namine and even the Riku replica must all possess hearts. My theory is that when an Organization level Nobody is formed from a somebody whose heart was not only strong, but also predominantly filled with light, the body attracts a heart that was stuck in limbo, so long as the heart is very similar to the heart the body had just lost. Furthermore, such an unnatural means of acquiring a heart seals the chain of memories of that heart, leaving only the memories of the body.​

I'd argue all but Roxas being on that list. :\ The three rules you stated only really apply to him requiring a Heart. It can be argued Axel only acts on memories of emotions, Xion's Keyblade is a replica and therefore does not play by the same rules as a real one, Namine and Riku Replica both never show any emotion real enough to make me think they would NEED a Heart to display what they do.

As for snatching a Heart, possible, but nothing really to support it.

Roxas

It would indeed explain how he has Ventus' Heart, but~

The Keyblade that Roxas used and the thing that Sora once lost in Castle Oblivion are the same thing. Furthermore, these two both used the Keyblade at the same time. This is can be explained by the relationship between Roxas and Sora.

So eh...

Axel

This one is iffy at best. His emotions can be argued to be naught more than expressions of his memories of emotions, possibly memories of being friends with Saix. :\

Xion

Eh, possible, but her Keyblade being a Sham/Replica/Fake/whateveryouwannacallit makes all bets nil on the topic of why she's able to use it. It saps the power of a real Keyblade, so it makes sense she'd be able to "purify" Heartless using it even without it being completely real.

Namine

I like the explanation for Namine's creation, though I'm not big on Sora's body splitting literally to form two Nobodies. As for Namine having a Heart, show me a scene where she shows a powerful emotion which would have to NOT be the result of remembering the feeling.

the Riku replica

He really shows nothing to warrant the necessity to have a Heart as you explained it. His desire to be whole doesn't warrant him having a Heart. :\

About Xion's fake Keyblade, she wields 2 Keyblades at the end of the game, and I expained that one is fake and the other is real. If one of them where not real, then she could not have purified the Heartless.

Saying those things are Keyblades is a HUGE stretch. Lack of Chain, lack of definable teeth (both sides same length; no other Keyblade to date is designed as such)... Eh, they're more just Swords of sorts rather than Keyblades.

 

[AxelsVirtue]

This one is iffy at best. His emotions can be argued to be naught more than expressions of his memories of emotions, possibly memories of being friends with Saix. :\

Axel felt something for Namine even before meeting Roxas as sugested in a few of his secret reports from Days, as well as the conversation in which Saix described Roxas as one of Axel's 2 favorite poeple (and he didn't seem to be talking about himself). In terms of it just being the expression of memories, that would mean that they where fake, the result of acting, when it is clear that he actually felt something

Eh, possible, but her Keyblade being a Sham/Replica/Fake/whateveryouwannacallit makes all bets nil on the topic of why she's able to use it. It saps the power of a real Keyblade, so it makes sense she'd be able to "purify" Heartless using it even without it being completely real.

Even if the fake keyblade does sap the power from the real Keyblade, Xion still wouldn't be able to use that power witout a heart that had at least previously been chosen by a Keyblade.

I like the explanation for Namine's creation, though I'm not big on Sora's body splitting literally to form two Nobodies. As for Namine having a Heart, show me a scene where she shows a powerful emotion which would have to NOT be the result of remembering the feeling.

Watch all the scenes involving Namine from any of the games. They should be self-explanetory.

He really shows nothing to warrant the necessity to have a Heart as you explained it. His desire to be whole doesn't warrant him having a Heart. :\

Emotions are emotions. Emotions of any kind require a Heart. He desired to be unique, not whole.

Saying those things are Keyblades is a HUGE stretch. Lack of Chain, lack of definable teeth (both sides same length; no other Keyblade to date is designed as such)... Eh, they're more just Swords of sorts rather than Keyblades.

The necessity of a Keychain has not been confirmed. Keychains are power enhancing excessories. Definable teeth or no, they still look much more like Keyblades than swords.